Torture Policy
- Thread starter moghrabi
- Start date
Reverend Blair has gotten me to the point where I'm only just toying with the idea of an American President sitting in The Hague for the world to watch and for an America to process such a foreign concept.
I wish I could give you a better answer, but I'm just processing through the idea for now.
One part of me thinks America is so strong that it could handle it, and still maintain its own strength. Hell, we're so strong we can make Nixon resign and so ridiculous we can impeach Clinton and still function albeit haphazardly.
It would be an education for us, as well as for the world too, because maybe the issue of hypocrisy could smear us all (and I mean the entire world) back into humility.
Sometimes after you've spent your entire emotional life dedicated to bringing down a Goliath, you might just stand there looking at the barren landscape able to wonder who you are, able to even see your own hypocrisy once more, but only once Goliath is dead.
I wish I could give you a better answer, but I'm just processing through the idea for now.
One part of me thinks America is so strong that it could handle it, and still maintain its own strength. Hell, we're so strong we can make Nixon resign and so ridiculous we can impeach Clinton and still function albeit haphazardly.
It would be an education for us, as well as for the world too, because maybe the issue of hypocrisy could smear us all (and I mean the entire world) back into humility.
Sometimes after you've spent your entire emotional life dedicated to bringing down a Goliath, you might just stand there looking at the barren landscape able to wonder who you are, able to even see your own hypocrisy once more, but only once Goliath is dead.
Your president broke his oath to defend the US by invading a country based on lies. Your country is not safer than before. Actually, I think it is worse than it was before 9/11. You have way more enemies. You are hated by almost everyone in every country.
Why is it hard for an American such as yourself to say yes, we did lie, we torture, we use people and nations for our comfort. Yes, we do all the bad things we tell others not to do. We do bully everyone around. We do interfere in eeveryone's internal affairs. We do tell people to be like us or else, but not all people like to be like you or live like you.
It is not an idea to toy with Jim. These are facts. Your president is sending people to kill and be killed for greed and lies.
It is time for Americans to get this bastard out of the white house chained with his dogs. It is time to stand up.
Why is it hard for an American such as yourself to say yes, we did lie, we torture, we use people and nations for our comfort. Yes, we do all the bad things we tell others not to do. We do bully everyone around. We do interfere in eeveryone's internal affairs. We do tell people to be like us or else, but not all people like to be like you or live like you.
It is not an idea to toy with Jim. These are facts. Your president is sending people to kill and be killed for greed and lies.
It is time for Americans to get this bastard out of the white house chained with his dogs. It is time to stand up.
"Actually, I think it is worse than it was before 9/11. You have way more enemies. You are hated by almost everyone in every country. "
--------------------------Moghrabi---------------------
That is both true and false.
True because we both know the hate and anger out there. We both know that no other subject stokes the passion as much as this topic. Other dangers equally as worse or even more threatening just have no cache, no passionate reactions.
It also false.
False because 9/11/01 almost happened before in 1994.
And why then? Because we had troops in Saudi Arabia for border and oil protection from Saddam.
Why not 1948 for supporting the state of Israel ?
Why not 1810s with the Barbary Pirates in Libya ?
Your presumptions then become false too, because where there's a will, there's a way for someone to hate first and find the reason to rationalize it afterwards.
The presumption is that logic precedes emotion.
It's the other way around this psychology of people.
Emotion precedes logic.
And I leave you with a repeat of something you should consider:
Sometimes after you've spent your entire emotional life dedicated to bringing down a Goliath, you might just stand there looking at the barren landscape able to wonder who you are, able to even see your own hypocrisy once more, but only once Goliath is dead.
--------------------------Moghrabi---------------------
That is both true and false.
True because we both know the hate and anger out there. We both know that no other subject stokes the passion as much as this topic. Other dangers equally as worse or even more threatening just have no cache, no passionate reactions.
It also false.
False because 9/11/01 almost happened before in 1994.
And why then? Because we had troops in Saudi Arabia for border and oil protection from Saddam.
Why not 1948 for supporting the state of Israel ?
Why not 1810s with the Barbary Pirates in Libya ?
Your presumptions then become false too, because where there's a will, there's a way for someone to hate first and find the reason to rationalize it afterwards.
The presumption is that logic precedes emotion.
It's the other way around this psychology of people.
Emotion precedes logic.
And I leave you with a repeat of something you should consider:
Sometimes after you've spent your entire emotional life dedicated to bringing down a Goliath, you might just stand there looking at the barren landscape able to wonder who you are, able to even see your own hypocrisy once more, but only once Goliath is dead.
http://www.cbc.ca/story/world/national/2005/12/07/torture051207.html
US "bans" the use of torture. :roll:
(like "we" can believe them..... :x
US "bans" the use of torture. :roll:
(like "we" can believe them..... :x
I just spilled tea all over my keyboard. Why would they ban something they have always denied doing? Rice should do Stand up Comedy for a job instead.
http://www.consortiumnews.com/2005/120705.html
will the lying ever stop??
( just a guess.......but doubt it. Once it starts......it is virtually impossible to curb the momentum.........so until a whole new team is in office...... Liars Inc. will continue.
it will take a very long time for the US to regain any semblance of credibility again. ( IF credibility and integrety are of value to them anymore. Will risk a melodramatic statement: They have sold their character for resources ,power, greed, and their own form of terror.../war.)
will the lying ever stop??
( just a guess.......but doubt it. Once it starts......it is virtually impossible to curb the momentum.........so until a whole new team is in office...... Liars Inc. will continue.
it will take a very long time for the US to regain any semblance of credibility again. ( IF credibility and integrety are of value to them anymore. Will risk a melodramatic statement: They have sold their character for resources ,power, greed, and their own form of terror.../war.)
seems those of us here are not the only ones that don't believe Rice of the Liars Cabal.
( an aside.....but this is really pathetic. Once a nation/or person or??? loses credibility.......the damage done can be irreparable. and the consequences will show up when one least expects.
No one believes bush, no one is believing rice now.....and on it goes. Ya see even if they by some remote chance DID TELL THE TRUTH.......they would not be believed now. The repercussions of such BIG lies are monumental.
http://www.merip.org/mero/mero120905.html
Lawlessness......a new paradigm
embarassing to see bush defend america as the law abiding nation... :x
Lawlessness......a new paradigm
embarassing to see bush defend america as the law abiding nation... :x
Pentagon Memo on Torture-Motivated Transfer Cited
http://www.truthout.org/docs_2005/120805J.shtml
Rice Fails to Clarify US View on Torture
- and three more articles on Rice and torture - scroll down -
http://www.truthout.org/docs_2005/120805K.shtml
Condi
And then there is this, to ease all our fears:
YA, RIGHT!!!
http://www.truthout.org/docs_2005/120805J.shtml
Rice Fails to Clarify US View on Torture
- and three more articles on Rice and torture - scroll down -
http://www.truthout.org/docs_2005/120805K.shtml
Condi
_ K - what that tell you? Its on or its off? It works or it doens't? They do it or they dont?
And then there is this, to ease all our fears:
[from 2nd link, scroll down]
YA, RIGHT!!!
Karlin said:
Ya, RIGHT :x indeed :evil: We should take her/their WORD for it??
You gotta be kidding... (more arrogant nonsense from Liars Inc.) -----they have made Lying a BUSINESS.
German Seeks Apology From CIA
By MELISSA EDDY, Associated Press WriterFri Dec 9, 7:44 AM ET
Few people believed Khaled al-Masri when he first went public nearly one year ago with claims he was kidnapped by CIA operatives and abused in a filthy prison in Afghanistan.
But his allegations suddenly gained credence this week, when German Chancellor Angela Merkel told reporters that Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice had admitted his abduction was a "mistake" and the American Civil Liberties Union filed a suit in a U.S. district court in Virginia on his behalf. He is seeking damages of at least $75,000.
He has since been propelled to the center of a campaign to end the alleged U.S. secret practice that human rights groups call "rendition to torture," although Washington implicitly denies it tortures terrorist suspects held anywhere.
http://tinyurl.com/be4zu
By MELISSA EDDY, Associated Press WriterFri Dec 9, 7:44 AM ET
Few people believed Khaled al-Masri when he first went public nearly one year ago with claims he was kidnapped by CIA operatives and abused in a filthy prison in Afghanistan.
But his allegations suddenly gained credence this week, when German Chancellor Angela Merkel told reporters that Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice had admitted his abduction was a "mistake" and the American Civil Liberties Union filed a suit in a U.S. district court in Virginia on his behalf. He is seeking damages of at least $75,000.
He has since been propelled to the center of a campaign to end the alleged U.S. secret practice that human rights groups call "rendition to torture," although Washington implicitly denies it tortures terrorist suspects held anywhere.
http://tinyurl.com/be4zu
You're right Moghrabi. I'm not sure a wronged person can be made whole or righted again, can he?
Paying him off is not just cynical, but maybe the only thing the American taxpayer can do for him as way of apology.
Paying him off is not just cynical, but maybe the only thing the American taxpayer can do for him as way of apology.