Tories want Royal Navy to fire at Spanish ships if they enter Gibraltar waters again

Blackleaf

Hall of Fame Member
Oct 9, 2004
49,917
1,907
113
Tory MPs have demanded a show of force against Spain after yet another Spanish vessel entered Gibraltarian waters.

The RV Ramon Margalef entered the waters on Monday and was met with Royal Navy patrol boat HMS Sabre, which asked the Spanish ship to leave.

However, the Spanish ship refused to do so and stayed put for 20 hours.

Now, Tory MPs are saying that the next time a Spanish vessel sails into Gibraltarean waters, the Royal Navy should fire at them.

Tory MP Colonel Bob Stewart, who was the British United Nations commander during the Bosnian war, said that if the Government is serious about defending Gibraltar’s sovereignty it should send major combat units to deter Spanish grandstanding.

Former Tory MP Louise Mensch added: ‘The next time a Spanish ship enters Gibraltarian waters and refuses to leave after Royal Navy warnings we should fire on them.’


Tories demand extra troops to defend the rock from Spanish after survey vessel encroaches on Gibraltar's waters

Spanish ship RV Ramon Margalef entered British waters yesterday
Refused to leave for 20 hours despite being contacted by HMS Sabre
Foreign Office has asked the Spanish ambassador to explain

By Tim Shipman



Tories demanded a show of force against Spain yesterday after a Spanish vessel made a ‘provocative incursion’ into Gibraltar’s territorial waters.

Britain summoned the Spanish ambassador for a dressing down after the ocean survey vessel spent 20 hours defying the Royal Navy’s demands that it depart, escalating the diplomatic tensions over the Rock.

The incident was denounced in Britain as the ship withdrew last night.


Royal Navy patrol boat HMS Sabre (pictured) intercepted a Spanish survey ship and asked it to leave British Gibraltar waters, but it refused. The Spanish ambassador has now been summoned to explain

But Tory MP Colonel Bob Stewart, who was the British United Nations commander during the Bosnian war, said that if the Government is serious about defending Gibraltar’s sovereignty it should send major combat units to deter Spanish grandstanding.

Former Tory MP Louise Mensch added: ‘The next time a Spanish ship enters Gibraltarian waters and refuses to leave after Royal Navy warnings we should fire on them.’

The long-standing dispute between Britain and Spain has flared up over the past two years. Prime Minister Mariano Rajoy has blocked the Spanish-Gibraltarian border and staged numerous incursions into Gibraltarian waters.

The latest crisis occurred when a research vessel belonging to the Spanish state, the RV Ramon Margalef, undertook significant surveying activity in Gibraltar’s territorial waters.

A Royal Navy fast patrol boat was dispatched to order it to leave. A video that appeared on Sky News showed the Spanish survey ship being flanked by small inflatable Navy boats.

An audio recording that was also broadcast starts with the captain of the Ramon Margalef saying: ‘We have the permission of the Spanish authorities.’


Tensions have been high in the region since the summer when Spain imposed border checks on every car causing up to six hours of delays

An officer in one of the British boats replies: ‘You are in British Gibraltar territorial waters. I consider you to be violating the United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea, article one nine, governing the rights of passage.

Your activities are being recorded and reported via the national authorities.

‘You are to cease your ongoing activities and to leave British Gibraltar territorial waters immediately. Acknowledge.’

The captain of the Spanish boat then responds: ‘Good afternoon, sir. We are carrying out our survey work. We will continue with our work. We have got the necessary permits from Spain to perform such work. Thank you.’

The boat withdrew only after Spanish ambassador Federico Trillo was summoned by Matthew Rycroft, Acting Permanent Under Secretary at the Foreign Office – the third time he has been summoned over Gibraltar since the current Spanish government took office in December 2011.

Europe Minister David Lidington said: ‘I strongly condemn this provocative incursion and urge the Spanish government to ensure that it is not repeated.

We stand ready to do whatever is required to protect Gibraltar’s sovereignty, economy and security.’

Mr Lidington said Spain has increased the number of its incursions into British territorial waters from around five per month to around 40 per month.

The event comes two weeks after a Spanish boat made dangerous manoeuvres near Royal Navy vessels in British waters, putting lives at risk and resulting in a minor collision. A Foreign Office source described relations with Spain as ‘well past the asking nicely stage’.

But Conservatives expressed frustration that the Government has not taken a firmer line against Spanish provocation. David Cameron did not protest last week when the European Commission refused to condemn Spain for blocking the Spanish-Gibraltar border over the summer.

Colonel Stewart called for troops to be sent to the Rock: ‘I am afraid the Government has got to be stronger.

‘For goodness sake, can we get a stronger response to what’s happening to our people in Gibraltar? Why doesn’t the British Government make more use of the defence facilities in Gibraltar, by sending down more often an infantry company to be based in Gibraltar for perhaps six weeks at a time to exercise there, rather than sending it to somewhere like Kenya.’

Foreign Office Minister Mark Simmonds responded: ‘We must strike a balance between being forceful, strong, determined to ensure the Spanish understand the UK Government’s position.

‘But we must also find mechanisms to de-escalate the situation, which is why we must get back to discussing solutions – without negotiating Gibraltarian sovereignty.’


 

Blackleaf

Hall of Fame Member
Oct 9, 2004
49,917
1,907
113
I'm guessing that the UK is poised to lose another parcel of land... Might be fun to offer Gibraltar a home with Canada

How is the UK going to lose Gibraltar? Is Spain going to invade it?

And I'd like to see you try and tempt the Gibraltarians to become Canadian. That'd be a laugh.

If either of these things are attempted both will end in humiliating failure.
 

captain morgan

Hall of Fame Member
Mar 28, 2009
28,429
148
63
A Mouse Once Bit My Sister
How is the UK going to lose Gibraltar? Is Spain going to invade it?

The fine residents of Gibraltar will have a vote to make that decision, just like the Irish, the Scots and the people of the T&C.

No invasion necessary - they will simply opt to disavow the UK

And I'd like to see you try and tempt the Gibraltarians to become Canadian. That'd be a laugh.

Pretty easy actually.. Send them an invite to come over to my place on a Sat night with beer, wings and HNIC.

They'll have their decision made inside of the first period
 

Blackleaf

Hall of Fame Member
Oct 9, 2004
49,917
1,907
113
The fine residents of Gibraltar will have a vote to make that decision

Will they? I've not heard of this vote. When is it taking place?

No invasion necessary - they will simply opt to disavow the UK

Can you show me stonewall proof of this daft statement? Show me the evidence that the British citizens of Gibraltar no longer wish to be British. I'll be right here waiting for this proof.

How many Spanish sailors are you hoping to kill, Blackleaf?

It depends how many stray into Gibraltar waters.

And the only people who would be to blame for being blown to smithereens would, of course, be themselves.
 

captain morgan

Hall of Fame Member
Mar 28, 2009
28,429
148
63
A Mouse Once Bit My Sister
Will they? I've not heard of this vote. When is it taking place?

Just after Christmas

Can you show me stonewall proof of this daft statement?


Yes

Show me the evidence that the British citizens of Gibraltar no longer wish to be British. I'll be right here waiting for this proof.

You'll have to come over here to see it first hand.

We're having a meeting next Sat just before HNIC

It depends how many stray into Gibraltar waters.

And the only people who would be to blame for being blown to smithereens would, of course, be themselves.

You are prepared to blow a few leaking fishing boats outta the water are ya?
 

Tecumsehsbones

Hall of Fame Member
Mar 18, 2013
60,232
9,457
113
Washington DC
Will they? I've not heard of this vote. When is it taking place?



Can you show me stonewall proof of this daft statement? Show me the evidence that the British citizens of Gibraltar no longer wish to be British. I'll be right here waiting for this proof.



It depends how many stray into Gibraltar waters.

And the only people who would be to blame for being blown to smithereens would, of course, be themselves.
Ah, yes. "Look what you made me do!" The cry of every hostage-taking scumbag and wife-murderer in history.
 

Blackleaf

Hall of Fame Member
Oct 9, 2004
49,917
1,907
113
Just after Christmas

Oh, I see. Can you provide me with a link, please?


Go on them. I'm waiting.

You'll have to come over here to see it first hand.

We're having a meeting next Sat just before HNIC

It'd be much easier if you could just do it right here.

You are prepared to blow a few leaking fishing boats outta the water are ya?

I would be if I was still serving in the Royal Navy, which I'm not.

And the number of Spanish "fishing boats" blown out of the water would depend solely on how many of them keep illegally entering British Gibraltarian waters. Hopefully the Spanish will get the message after the first one has been blown to pieces. If not, the casualty figures will just rise. If that happens, they will eventually get the message sooner or later to stay out of British Gibraltarian waters.

Ah, yes. "Look what you made me do!" The cry of every hostage-taking scumbag and wife-murderer in history.

I know it offends your luvvy-dovey, softy-softy, easily-offended left wing sensibilities, but there is a reason why Royal Navy vessels are patrolling Gibraltarian waters, and that's not so their crews can enjoy sun, sea and sangria. They are there to defend British Gibraltarian waters from illegal incursions by foreign vessels. Britain has every right to defend its waters from foreign incursion.

And I know it offends your luvvy-dovey, softy-softy, easily-offended left wing sensibilities, but Royal Navy vessels are armed with big guns. And those guns are not there for ornamentation purposes (as you probably imagine in your world). They are there to fire upon enemy vessels, such as those Spanish vessels which keep unlawfully entering British Gibraltarean waters.

I know you soppy lefties would rather the British "polititely" "ask" the Spanish "if they would kindly leave" Gibraltarean waters. But such softy-softy, luvvy-dovey drivel is obviously not working, as is evidenced by the fact that that Spanish vessel on Monday refused to leave British Gibraltarean waters until 22 hours after HMS Sabre politely asked it to leave. Such tactics aren't working.

Commonsense therefore dictates that more tougher measures are therefore carried out, and it seems only reasonable (to the right-minded amongst us) that, from now on, British warships open fire on ANY Spanish vessel which deliberately enters British Gibraltarean waters.

One of the tasks of the Royal Navy is to defend British waters. It should start doing that. The soppy softy-softy approach isn't working. The Spanish will get the message once a Royal Navy hunter-killer blows one of their ships and its crew to bits.
 
Last edited:

taxslave

Hall of Fame Member
Nov 25, 2008
36,362
4,340
113
Vancouver Island
How is the UK going to lose Gibraltar? Is Spain going to invade it?

And I'd like to see you try and tempt the Gibraltarians to become Canadian. That'd be a laugh.

If either of these things are attempted both will end in humiliating failure.

You must be used to being humiliated by now.

Oh, I see. Can you provide me with a link, please?



Go on them. I'm waiting.





I would be if I was still serving in the Royal Navy, which I'm not.




One of the tasks of the Royal Navy is to defend British waters. It should start doing that. The soppy softy-softy approach isn't working. The Spanish will get the message once a Royal Navy hunter-killer blows one of their ships and its crew to bits.



These the same royal navy boats that burned up in the Falklands every time someone lit a cigarette?
 

Blackleaf

Hall of Fame Member
Oct 9, 2004
49,917
1,907
113
These the same royal navy boats that burned up in the Falklands every time someone lit a cigarette?

British ships have a right to patrol and defend British waters. In fact, that's the main role of the Royal Navy. What do you want the British to do? Leave their territorial waters open and vulnerable to attack?

Of course, the only people to blame for the large Royal Navy presence in the Falklands is the Argentine Government.