Tories and Quebec Sovereignty

[FiveParadox]

You imply that each and every francophone in Québec is a sovereigntist — that, simply put, is not the case. Not each and every French Canadian is a sovereigntist, and not each and every English Canadian is a federalist.

One must recognize the right of a citizen to make up their own mind, rather than implying that, as a French Quebecker, one must hold one opinion over another — as if it is some kind of "duty."

As for the issue of partitioning Québec in the event of separation, why not? The area that is Québec is the legal property, solely, of the Queen in right of Canada. If the people of Québec see fit to revoke their citizenship in Canada, then so be it — however, they can't expect the Government of Canada to "play nice" in response to tearing out a part of ourselves.

 

[the caracal kid]

indeed five, and if a territory votes to join a country on a majority, then territories can also vote to leave said country on a majority.

the rest of canada needs to present its case and proposals to quebec for quebec to choose to remain a part of canada, but beyond that, the decision is that of Quwbecers only and the rest of canada has to understand it needs to keep its nose out of Quebec's decision process, and respect whatever decision is made.

Weasley federalists can't expect good results from trying to undermine Quebec's decision process with talk of splitting up Quebec herself.

 

[Jersay]

Numere seems to have it against Anglo-phones?

 

[Colpy]

The lines won't be clear as long as Ottawa imposes.

Ah, excuse me, but the ONLY way the lines will be clear is if Ottawa imposes.

A clear majority (not 50%+1) in answer to a clear question (approved in advance by Ottawa) would be enough to begin territorial and debt repayment negotiations.

The separatists must be made to understand that any deviation from the path to sovereignty set out by Ottawa will be met by the exercise of executive power in Quebec.

Some Quebecois feel a need for their own country. Fair enough, but I don't think many are willing to fight for it on a battlefield. Especially if that battlefield is the streets of Montreal, Quebec City, and Baie Comeau.

So, the setting of clear, tough rules in advance by Ottawa avoids covil war in two ways:

1. It discourages casual votes for independence.

2. It prevents the sovereignists, if they get 50%+1, from making the stupid mistake of a UDI, which is what they planned in 1995.

We came to within 50,000 votes of Civil War.

 

[the caracal kid]

the future of a province is up to a province, and not the feds, period.

the feds need to understand it is not their business to interfere with a province choosing to go its own way. If a province votes to go its own way, the feds need to respect that, and not play games.

 

[Martin Le Acadien]

Numere seems to have it against Anglo-phones?

In defense (En defence) of Numere, he is not Anglophobic. Numere is merely stating that the Country or Province of Quebec is divisable but only after the main question is settled, vis, Can Quebec form its own country?

As a Bi-phone living in the States, OUr French Heritage and customs as well as laws have come under attack in Louisiana and we look to Canada and as well as Quebec for the most part to supply us with our "Heritage Needs" as it has been ever since the Grand Derangement in 1755. Quebcois Priests say mass in our churches, quebecoise' schoolteachers revive our language and qubecois TV is played down here for our "French" Fix.

Acadiens do not forget the help Quebec gave to our renaissance Francais en Louisiane nor how they went to bat to protect the Acadien French in the maritimes!

to accuse Namure of hatred is wrong, he is just taking up for Francophone Population which has just recently been able to sit at the table in Canada and the US!

Do we hat e the English, Non mon amis, pere preserve nos liguistic, eh?

Let us preserve our language, nos fierons de parler francais.

 

[#juan]

Re: RE: Tories and Quebec Sovereignty

The lines won't be clear as long as Ottawa imposes.

Ah, excuse me, but the ONLY way the lines will be clear is if Ottawa imposes.

A clear majority (not 50%+1) in answer to a clear question (approved in advance by Ottawa) would be enough to begin territorial and debt repayment negotiations.

The separatists must be made to understand that any deviation from the path to sovereignty set out by Ottawa will be met by the exercise of executive power in Quebec.

Some Quebecois feel a need for their own country. Fair enough, but I don't think many are willing to fight for it on a battlefield. Especially if that battlefield is the streets of Montreal, Quebec City, and Baie Comeau.

So, the setting of clear, tough rules in advance by Ottawa avoids covil war in two ways:

1. It discourages casual votes for independence.

2. It prevents the sovereignists, if they get 50%+1, from making the stupid mistake of a UDI, which is what they planned in 1995.

We came to within 50,000 votes of Civil War.

If it ever came

to a UDI, the first thing that would happen is that France would jump in and recognise them. If that happened, one of the first things that Canada should do is annex Saint Pierre and Miquelon.

 

[Jersay]

In defense (En defence) of Numere, he is not Anglophobic. Numere is merely stating that the Country or Province of Quebec is divisable but only after the main question is settled, vis, Can Quebec form its own country?

As a Bi-phone living in the States, OUr French Heritage and customs as well as laws have come under attack in Louisiana and we look to Canada and as well as Quebec for the most part to supply us with our "Heritage Needs" as it has been ever since the Grand Derangement in 1755. Quebcois Priests say mass in our churches, quebecoise' schoolteachers revive our language and qubecois TV is played down here for our "French" Fix.

Acadiens do not forget the help Quebec gave to our renaissance Francais en Louisiane nor how they went to bat to protect the Acadien French in the maritimes!

to accuse Namure of hatred is wrong, he is just taking up for Francophone Population which has just recently been able to sit at the table in Canada and the US!

Do we hat e the English, Non mon amis, pere preserve nos liguistic, eh?

Let us preserve our language, nos fierons de parler francais.

I don't think that Numere is Anglophobic, but i think he is putting the Anglo and Allophone polulation at a smaller portion then they actually are.

The French Population in Quebec ranges from 50%-65% of the overall Quebec population. While the Enlgish population, at the most is 40% of the Quebec population, while the Allophone population is 3% to 5%.

 

[FiveParadox]

If Québec were to receive sovereignty, I have no doubt that we would see a large amount of conflict between les québecois et québecoises français and les québecois et québecoises anglais as we had experienced in our earlier Canadian history — the partitioning of Québec could become inevitable in the event of separation from Canada.

If Québec were to refuse English Quebeckers the "right" to separate from Québec and create their own nation, as a "distinct" society, would that not be entirely and grossly hypocritical? I have a sneaking suspicion that, were Québec to become a sovereign nation, the rights of its citizens to be served in English would be obliterated.

 

[Jersay]

If Québec were to receive sovereignty, I have no doubt that we would see a large amount of conflict between les québecois et québecoises français and les québecois et québecoises anglais as we had experienced in our earlier Canadian history — the partitioning of Québec could become inevitable in the event of separation from Canada.

If Québec were to refuse English Quebeckers the "right" to separate from Québec and create their own nation, as a "distinct" society, would that not be entirely and grossly hypocritical? I have a sneaking suspicion that, were Québec to become a sovereign nation, the rights of its citizens to be served in English would be obliterated.

Got the same feeling as you.

 

[Martin Le Acadien]

Re: RE: Tories and Quebec Sovereignty

If it came to a UDI, the first thing that would happen is that France would jump in and recognise them. If that happened, one of the first things that Canada should do is annex Saint Pierre and Miquelon.

Ok, and then what is Newfoundlanders going to do for cheap Liquor and Perfume?

Give me a break, #Juan, grap SPM? I can see the Headlines NOW:

DATELINE PARIS (UP)-After a tense night of negotiations, French negotiators have announced "They are at an impass with the Canadian Governemtn on the seizure of Saint Pierre and Miquelon, a small chain of Islands in the Gulf of St. Lawrence off Newfoundland which has population of 3000 people." This seizure in retaliation for France's Recognition of Quebec Independence has created a stir in these parts not seen since Al Capone learned how to ship Liquor out of SPM to a thirsty US Market beset by the Prohibition!

France is threatening the use of military force on Canada and with the liberation of SPM being planned, the US watches to the North and checks out their options in this matters which boils down to this, "Since France left Nato, we are not committed to assist France but with Canada taking SPM, we are hoping we ain't gotta help them either." Said President Edwards after learning about the crisis from Fox News. He said he would hate to lose either our supply of Mad Cows or Bad Cheese!

Meanwhile, Quebecois are celebrating in the street while US Electricity Interest flock to sign up for cheap abundant power at bargain basement prices!

As the Canadian Dollar drops below par with the Mexican Peso, tourists are flocking North to pick up bargains and fill their gas tanks!

British Columbia has just announced that it will become a dependency of California since it has strong ties to Hollywood and Left Coast, I mean the West Coast.

King Ralph of Alberta has just announced that he is flying down to Bush Land in Texas fo consultations and hopes to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory!

Its bleak night for the Honourable #Juan, PM of Canada as he decides to subject North America to mercy of Bad Cheese or look for the silver lining in that Cereal Boxes will no long have to be written in French but Spanish!


NOTE FROM MARTIN

Do Not invite the US Governement to any of your emergencies, do Not break up quebec, as a KATRINA survivor, the US Govt is unable to assist anyone for weeks and some have even said months! You could be living in a travel trailer park in Ottawa with either your mother-in-law, or all your children with no privacy. It seems tha bathroom doors have been removed from the trailers as a cost cutting measure so just beware, DO NOT CREATE ANY EMERGENCIES FOR THE NEXT THREE YEARS.

Sincerely,

 

[Numure]

I don't think that Numere is Anglophobic, but i think he is putting the Anglo and Allophone polulation at a smaller portion then they actually are.

The French Population in Quebec ranges from 50%-65% of the overall Quebec population. While the Enlgish population, at the most is 40% of the Quebec population, while the Allophone population is 3% to 5%.

Actually, its 82% French, 12% anglophone, and 6% allophone. Check StatsCan is ya want.

 

[Numure]

Re: RE: Tories and Quebec Sovereignty

to a UDI, the first thing that would happen is that France would jump in and recognise them. If that happened, one of the first things that Canada should do is annex Saint Pierre and Miquelon.

You do know, that France has the 4th biggest military in the world? And that France, has the 3rd most well funded military, also?

Other then Surrender Jokes, Canada isnt much of match for France. So I doubt Canada would be the aggressor and invade souvrain french territory.

 

[Jersay]

Numere is correct however, Allophone makes up 10% while it ranges from 6-10% who speak English as there first language.

 

[Numure]

Numere is correct however, Allophone makes up 10% while it ranges from 6-10% who speak English as there first language.

Ahh I was sure for the 82%, wasnt for the rest. Thanks.

 

[Doryman]

Re: RE: Tories and Quebec Sovereignty

The whole Annexation of St. Pierre and Miquelon is silly but..
Ok, and then what is Newfoundlanders going to do for cheap Liquor and Perfume?

Then what will France do for access to Newfoundland fishing grounds. Which is really why St' Pierre is kept by France.

Meanwhile, Quebecois are celebrating in the street while US Electricity Interest flock to sign up for cheap abundant power at bargain basement prices!



Not too much Electricity, since the moment Quebec seperates, NL will shut down all the power it runs into Quebec. Power which only Quebec makes a profit from... Without that 2 billion a year Quebec gets from the Upper Churchill, they won't be in that good a shape.


...


In any case, A unilateral seperation will be bad news for Quebec. The Army WILL be called in to restore order make no mistake, tensions will rise, people will panic, perhaps riots will start. If Quebec does leave Canada, it is in Quebec's best interests that they DO NOT leave unilaterally.

 

[Colin]

Does anyone understand soverienty or do they just assume that its always separation?

 

[Numure]

Re: RE: Tories and Quebec Sovereignty

Not too much Electricity, since the moment Quebec seperates, NL will shut down all the power it runs into Quebec. Power which only Quebec makes a profit from... Without that 2 billion a year Quebec gets from the Upper Churchill, they won't be in that good a shape.

Only 400MW come from Churchill Falls. Hydro-Québec produces a total of 26000MW. The income from Churchill falls is minimal to Hydro. And the contract cannot be disolved so easily, even if Québec split from Canada. The contract is between two compagnies, not two Provinces.

If you cut the juice, we don't mind much. Hope you have the money to build a new under water powerline, cause you can't acces to American market otherwise.

In any case, A unilateral seperation will be bad news for Quebec. The Army WILL be called in to restore order make no mistake, tensions will rise, people will panic, perhaps riots will start. If Quebec does leave Canada, it is in Quebec's best interests that they DO NOT leave unilaterally.

And its in Canada's best intrest to negotiate in good faith.

Even if we did a UDI, Canada's standing army is in no position to occupy anything.[/code]

 

[Machjo]

Should the Anglophones and Francophones break out into war, I'm sure the natives (and they control a lot of land and resources; just look at Nunavut!) would certainly pack up and leave.

 

[sanch]

Re: RE: Tories and Quebec Sovereignty

Should the Anglophones and Francophones break out into war, I'm sure the natives (and they control a lot of land and resources; just look at Nunavut!) would certainly pack up and leave.

My undersdtanding is that the Cree and Mohawk would immediately press their land claims which cover almost all of Quebec including the city of Montreal. Canada would lend support to the aborignal claims and their desire to rejoin Canada. As litigation would be prolonged there would be no recognition for Quebec by NAFTA or the UN. There would be no foreign investment either because of the uncertainty.

Here is an inspiring story.

From separatist Joliette to multicultural Toronto, and on to the world:


http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/Co...le&cid=1138404335435&call_pageid=970599119419