Today in Iraq

no1important

Time Out
Jan 9, 2003
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U.S. death toll in Iraq nears 2,000
Some expect momentum to grow for withdrawal of U.S. troops


Washington -- It's a grim milestone that no one wants to see come about, but the United States is nearing 2,000 military deaths in Iraq.

With public opinion polls showing that a majority of Americans favor a partial or total withdrawal from Iraq 32 months after President Bush launched an invasion to oust Saddam Hussein, experts and advocates disagree on whether the looming benchmark will further erode public or congressional support for the war that the president promises to continue until a successful conclusion.

Is all that death worth it "W"? I think not.
 

moghrabi

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At the beginning of this unjustified war, most Americans approved of the war and the reasons behind it. Now after 2 years and a bit and almost 2000 military deaths, Americans are not approving of the war or the reasons that were behind it.

I tell the American people that they can't just pick and choose. Why now they flipped sides? Why now they are against the war? Not because they believe the war was unjustified but because they are seeing too many deaths of their own people for an unjustified war. If the war went the way Americans had wished it should go, no casualties or at least a little, they would have stayed in support of the war. This is the most obnoxious mentality in the world. They want to get everything for nothing, win a war without losing a soul, be a member of the UN with paying their dues and so on and so forth.

My 2 cents for the day.
 

Ocean Breeze

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Jun 5, 2005
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Re: RE: Today in Iraq

moghrabi said:
At the beginning of this unjustified war, most Americans approved of the war and the reasons behind it. Now after 2 years and a bit and almost 2000 military deaths, Americans are not approving of the war or the reasons that were behind it.

I tell the American people that they can't just pick and choose. Why now they flipped sides? Why now they are against the war? Not because they believe the war was unjustified but because they are seeing too many deaths of their own people for an unjustified war. If the war went the way Americans had wished it should go, no casualties or at least a little, they would have stayed in support of the war. This is the most obnoxious mentality in the world. They want to get everything for nothing, win a war without losing a soul, be a member of the UN with paying their dues and so on and so forth.

My 2 cents for the day.

mogh: you nailed it !! Most Users could care less about the losses and destruction THEIR invasion has caused. They just don't want anymore of their own "heros" hurt or killed. Sick mentality indeed.......... as no one has voiced ANY concern for all the Iraqis that the US has KILLED. or tortured , or burned or whatever destructiveness the US has demonstrated. Selfish bastards....and there is no other way of looking at it. Yet if one asks them "why" they supported the invasion..........they have no good answer. go figure. Fecking hypocrits. Flip floppers and other such adjectives in the same vein.
 

moghrabi

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May 25, 2004
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Ocean,

I am fed up with this wishy washy decisions americans have. No American ever mentioned that our soldiers should leave Iraq because we are causing a lot of deaths to the Iraqi people either by inciting more rebellion or by our unmerciful attacks on neighbourhoods. They say we should leave because the toll on our soldiers is too much. This is as you put it "hypocrite".
 

Ocean Breeze

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Re: RE: Today in Iraq

moghrabi said:
Ocean,

I am fed up with this wishy washy decisions americans have. No American ever mentioned that our soldiers should leave Iraq because we are causing a lot of deaths to the Iraqi people either by inciting more rebellion or by our unmerciful attacks on neighbourhoods. They say we should leave because the toll on our soldiers is too much. This is as you put it "hypocrite".

it is also extremely SELFISH, SELF CENTRED, and confirms that they could care less about the Iraqis as a people. If they don't want their troops killed then don't support an insane invasion to begin with. Reality is that 2000 is nothing compared to the number the US has KILLED. Of course they fail to include that in their equation.... :evil:
 

moghrabi

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Notice here Ocean that I changed my tone about the American war in Iraq. Before, I was trying to be polite and say its the US government that is supporting this illegal war. Now, I am saying that the whole American population is responsible. They had and still have a chance to stop their atrocities in other countries, but they still support their government action until they see the flagged coffins arriving. I blame the whole of America for their action. The government for being war hungry and the people for not doing enough to stop it.
 

Ocean Breeze

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The government for being war hungry and the people for not doing enough to stop it.


well, from what we have seen to date ........they aren't too interested in stopping it , and were not interested in preventing it. With the exception of Cindy Sheehan and her troop. She is the only one that has visibly opposed . ...........but even then AFTER her son was killed.

Seems it has to hit home before they give a damn. They do have a fascination with WAR ......and war like activities. (would bet they make a production out of a Cock fight.;-) And as long as they are esconced in their cocoon.......they could care less about who and how many are dying. When ONE Death in an uncalled for invasion is TOO much. They still live with the primitive mindset that young people DYING In war are "heros".......when in reality they are victims of the perpetrators of said wars.
 

moghrabi

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This is true. When they started the war, they were fighting from the air. This were they excel. Hiding up there where nothing could reach them. They were bombing and killing and winning the war. But when the time came for them to go down to the ground, it hit them. It is not the same as a practice field in Texas. This is a street fight with their enemy who is more determined than they are to kill them. An enemy willing to kill himself to kill them. They were stunned but they shouldn't have. They would've learned this from Vietnam where they lost the war to their enemy who was the same, willing to fight them until death.
 

Ocean Breeze

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When they started the war, they were fighting from the air. This were they excel. Hiding up there where nothing could reach them.

and of course the many Iraqis they killed, maimed could not be seen or counted.........but in reality they were never "winning" this war.........as it is not a war to be won in the traditional sense.... They had not been attacked by Iraq so this was not in self defense and out of true nec. Anyone can make someone they want something from into an enemy , and lie enough to aggressively attack them. Sick as it is.

One NEVER hears about how the REAL situation is in Iraq today.......and one is inclined to think that any Iraqi "interviewed" by the US is repeating a canned response.

Iraq was not an enemy , but thanks to the US regimes stupidy ....... they might become one in the future......and are hosting pleny of "enemies" with their borders now. Imagine what would happen if everyone that truly 'hated" the US migrated to Iraq and fought against the US. Dang..........we could be looking at another 100 yr war. All thanks to the bush stupidity.& GREED
 

moghrabi

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Well now they are cooking the same lies to attack Iran and Syria. But I wonder why they are hesitating to attack North Korea? Real Nuclear power perhaps?
 

Ocean Breeze

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Well now they are cooking the same lies to attack Iran and Syria.

yep........the warmongers are rattling their sabers..... as they have not had their fill of blood, killing , torture,


just as a psychopathic killer. The first kill is the hardest......once that is completed (with ritual and all) the next ones come easier. War condtions people into accepting things that they ordinarily would not. War perpetuates war and rage. But in the US MYOPIC mind.......they can't see anything except the kill and glorifying it with their flag. No wonder the troops were grinning with such glee in those torture pictures. This , to them is nothing. They have been conditioned to feel nothing human anymore.
 

moghrabi

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How gleaming were they when they burned the bodies of the so-called Talibans. It is against every letter in every sentence in every chapter of human Rights Book.
 

Ocean Breeze

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But I wonder why they are hesitating to attack North Korea? Real Nuclear power perhaps?

Ya ever see a bully incite or attack one of his own kind??? Of course not. Bullies pick on the defenseless, the weakened ( by yrs of sanctions etc) , Bullies strike when one is vulnerable..

why.......?? Because Bullies are COWARDS at heart........and know they don't have a chance in a fair playing field.

This is why they employ INTIMIDATION tactics..... and try to back them up with "muscle". (braun). Where they fail is in the BRAINS dept. That is what we are seeing in the US now.
 

Ocean Breeze

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Re: RE: Today in Iraq

moghrabi said:
How gleaming were they when they burned the bodies of the so-called Talibans. It is against every letter in every sentence in every chapter of human Rights Book.

the US HORRORS are non stop now. The world has seen and is seeing the US for what it REALLY is now......and it is nothing as "advertized". Sure they will prattle about "investigations"......just to appease those that are raising objections more vocally now. Game players of the worst kind.
 

moghrabi

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If the Bush administration wants it, they’ll get it. The threat of hurricanes and indictments isn’t going to stop these crazy guys. Nor will the Democrats, France, or that fallible United Nations. Nope, nothing is going to step in their way. Even if what they want is war on Iran.

Invading Iran: Who Is to Stop Them?

http://www.lewrockwell.com/frank/frank10.html
 

Ocean Breeze

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Jun 5, 2005
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Re: RE: Today in Iraq

moghrabi said:
If the Bush administration wants it, they’ll get it. The threat of hurricanes and indictments isn’t going to stop these crazy guys. Nor will the Democrats, France, or that fallible United Nations. Nope, nothing is going to step in their way. Even if what they want is war on Iran.

Invading Iran: Who Is to Stop Them?

http://www.lewrockwell.com/frank/frank10.html


Gets tricky doesn't it?? Ya see they CAN be stopped..... particularly if the rest of the world would take a firm stance against the US action. Unfortunately in the lie of politics.......many on this planet could have a political interest in seeing a regime change in those countries. .......and if the US wants to be stupid enough to do it...... they might passively sit back and watch. Tough, call. And politics has become so dirty /evil.....that ethics don't even factor in anymore.

MAYBE..... as not sure how the world will react should the US actually go through with this. Ya see the world could easily bring the war to the US territory...........IF it wanted to engage in a massive WAR .(could be the third world war) IS the price worth it??? It would be devestating........ So the rest of the world is doing a balancing act.........and waiting for the insanity in washington to leave with hopes that some reasonable men take over.
 

Ocean Breeze

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Secret MoD poll: Iraqis support attacks on British troops
By Sean Rayment, Defence Correspondent
(Filed: 23/10/2005)

Millions of Iraqis believe that suicide attacks against British troops are justified, a secret military poll commissioned by senior officers has revealed.

The poll, undertaken for the Ministry of Defence and seen by The Sunday Telegraph, shows that up to 65 per cent of Iraqi citizens support attacks and fewer than one per cent think Allied military involvement is helping to improve security in their country.


Andrew Robathan: Government policy 'disastrous'
It demonstrates for the first time the true strength of anti-Western feeling in Iraq after more than two and a half years of bloody occupation.

The nationwide survey also suggests that the coalition has lost the battle to win the hearts and minds of the Iraqi people, which Tony Blair and George W Bush believed was fundamental to creating a safe and secure country.

The results come as it was disclosed yesterday that Lt Col Nick Henderson, the commanding officer of the Coldstream Guards in Basra, in charge of security for the region, has resigned from the Army. He recently voiced concerns over a lack of armoured vehicles for his men, another of whom was killed in a bomb attack in Basra last week.

The secret poll appears to contradict claims made by Gen Sir Mike Jackson, the Chief of the General Staff, who only days ago congratulated British soldiers for "supporting the Iraqi people in building a new and better Iraq".

Andrew Robathan, a former member of the SAS and the Tory shadow defence minister, said last night that the poll clearly showed a complete failure of Government policy.

He said: "This clearly states that the Government's hearts-and-minds policy has been disastrous. The coalition is now part of the problem and not the solution.



"I am not advocating a pull-out but if British soldiers are putting their lives on the line for a cause which is not supported by the Iraqi people then we have to ask the question, 'what are we doing there?' "

The Sunday Telegraph disclosed last month that a plan for an early withdrawal of British troops had been shelved because of the failing security situation, sparking claims that Iraq was rapidly becoming "Britain's own Vietnam".

The survey was conducted by an Iraqi university research team that, for security reasons, was not told the data it compiled would be used by coalition forces. It reveals:

• Forty-five per cent of Iraqis believe attacks against British and American troops are justified - rising to 65 per cent in the British-controlled Maysan province;

• 82 per cent are "strongly opposed" to the presence of coalition troops;

• less than one per cent of the population believes coalition forces are responsible for any improvement in security;

• 67 per cent of Iraqis feel less secure because of the occupation;

• 43 per cent of Iraqis believe conditions for peace and stability have worsened;

• 72 per cent do not have confidence in the multi-national forces.

The opinion poll, carried out in August, also debunks claims by both the US and British governments that the general well-being of the average Iraqi is improving in post-Saddam Iraq.

The findings differ markedly from a survey carried out by the BBC in March 2004 in which the overwhelming consensus among the 2,500 Iraqis questioned was that life was good. More of those questioned supported the war than opposed it.

Under the heading "Justification for Violent Attacks", the new poll shows that 65 per cent of people in Maysan province - one of the four provinces under British control - believe that attacks against coalition forces are justified.

The report states that for Iraq as a whole, 45 per cent of people feel attacks are justified. In Basra, the proportion is reduced to 25 per cent.

The report profiles those likely to carry out attacks against British and American troops as being "less than 26 years of age, more likely to want a job, more likely to have been looking for work in the last four weeks and less likely to have enough money even for their basic needs".

Immediately after the war the coalition embarked on a campaign of reconstruction in which it hoped to improve the electricity supply and the quality of drinking water.

That appears to have failed, with the poll showing that 71 per cent of people rarely get safe clean water, 47 per cent never have enough electricity, 70 per cent say their sewerage system rarely works and 40 per cent of southern Iraqis are unemployed.

But Iraq's President Jalal Talabani pleaded last night for British troops to stay. "There would be chaos and perhaps civil war," he said. "We are now fighting a world war launched by terrorists against civilisation, against democracy, against progress, against all the values of humanity.

"If British troops withdrew, the terrorists would say, 'Look, we have imposed our will on the most accomplished armed forces in the world and terror is the way to oblige the Europeans to surrender to us'."

• John Reid, the Defence Secretary will announce next week that 3,100 troops are to deploy to Afghanistan next April as a part of the expansion of the International Sec-urity and Assistance Force. Their job will be to hunt down the Taliban and to take part in anti-narcotics operations.

20 October 2005: Roadside bomb kills British soldier
8 October 2005: Rise of militias leaves Basra in the balance
30 September 2005: Rise of militias leaves Basra in the balance

Is the usREGIME listening to what the Iraqis want IN THEIR country?? Of course not. The overzealous Cabal in washington combined with Tony's men are determined to shove whatever they want down the Iraqi throats. (no matter how much they lie about it. ) Is it a surprise that most Iraqis support fighting the troops.......aka INVADERS??? Wouldn't the US fight an overzealous invader who decided that the US needed a regime change. ????

the question this continues to raise is: what is it with the neo con amerikans .......or americans in general that they have no capacity to place themselves in another shoes to gain some genuine insite and compassion. Could it be that America remains locked in that "all about ME" phase of developement?? and can't seem to progress (mature) forward?? T's a puzzlement.
 

moghrabi

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They have a genuine interest Ocean. IRAQI OIL!!!!

Who cares about few hundred dead here and there? Who cares if Iraq was once the cradle of civilization? Who cares if people are not safe and can't feed their children? Who cares if there are no work except joining a puppet police and army force that represent a part of the population.

Only the Iraqi people care about these issues. Americans are measuring how much oil is still left underground