There are 218 reasons not to vote Liberal. What's yours?

[Uncle_Jalapeno]

http://torontosun.com/News/Election/2006/01/22/1405861-sun.html

Check out this video to see what public works has been doing with your tax money. http://www.canadiancontent.net/en/jd/go?Url=http://www.cruisecontrolwindsor.com/relocationhi.wmv

 

[FiveParadox]

Baseless Allegations

While an "interesting" video, there is nothing there to suggest that the trips in question were issued under questionable circumstances.

To suggest that Public Works and Government Services Canada does not have a right to send its civil cervants abroad is, in my opinion, an incorrect assertion. We must acquaint ourselves with the fact that Canada has the right to have people stationed in "desirable" locales outside of our borders.

As for the company of the Right Honourable Paul Martin, he, as does every other citizen of Canada, has the right to base his company outside of this country — he is not under some sort of geographic restriction. Canada is a free country and, as such, our place of business is not dictated to us. If Mr. Martin can't base his company abroad, then nobody else should be able to, either.

The entire department of PWGCS is not the Liberal Party of Canada — an overwhelming majority of the staff of the Ministry are not directly related to any party, governing or not. They simply respond to the requests of the Minister and the Government. As we have seen in the past, it is quite possible for civil servants to abuse our legislative and ministerial framework outside the scope of the Minister and the Government.

:!: (Edit) Supplemental

On another note, Uncle_Jalapeno, I refuse to vote in your poll. Although, for the record, yes, I will be voting for Sukh Dhaliwal, the candidate for the Liberal Party of Canada in the riding of Newton—North Delta.

Your assertion that anyone who would support the Grits must just love thieves and scandal is offensive. You should base your arguments on facts, not on the baseless insults of members of this forum.

 

[Freethinker]

Re: Baseless Allegations

I find that on message boards such as these, people are more interested in politics than that general population. They also tend to vote more along idealogical lines.

I will be voting liberal because I am opposed to far right wing idealogy.

The political hay about scandal is tremendously overblown.

Sponsorship happened when Chretien was leader, Martin and Chretien were adversarys. Most importantly Gomera exhonerated Paul Martin and most of the Liberal party. Generally in this country we have something called presumption of innocence, and moresoe, when someone is exhonerated, we usually stop accusing them. But this is politics. Nothing works quite as nice as repeating corruption in ads until some people think it was their own idea.

As far as Steamship thing. Almost all international shipping companies fly flags of convenience. To be competetive in the international market it is pretty much a necessity. It was funny to see Stephen harper repeat over and over again that his family always flew the Canadian flag. Are they in international shipping?

The Liberals have certainly accumulated some cruft over the years as any party in power for 12 years would. They could probably use some renewal, but voting them out right now in favor of a party driven by far right idelogy would be like cutting off my nose to spite my face. Not likely.

If the Progressive Conservatives were running as thier opposition, I would vote the Liberals a timeout, because I am not that partisan (Actually I have never voted Liberal before), but I will be voting for a progressive society, not a conservative one.

 

[nitzomoe]

RE: There are 218 reasons

wow talk about loaded statements, its becoming more and more obvious that some pl on this board aren interested in other ppls opinions, they just want to volunteer their services to the conservatives by blaring their points of view everywhere

 

[Colpy]

Re: RE: There are 218 reasons

wow talk about loaded statements, its becoming more and more obvious that some pl on this board aren interested in other ppls opinions, they just want to volunteer their services to the conservatives by blaring their points of view everywhere

Hey, I'm certainly here to try to convert the ignorant left to the correct path.

The point is, there are not many people who are interested enough in politics to join a political forum that haven't already made up their minds.....I don't mean just about this election, I mean about their place on the political spectrum.

Nobody here is going to convince anyone else.

This is just an intellectual exercise........that's about it.

 

[#juan]

Hey, I'm certainly here to try to convert the ignorant left to the correct path.

That's it. You're out of my will.

 

[Uncle_Jalapeno]

Why don't the Progressive voters give the NDP a chance. The Tories will win tommorrow so if you want a balanced parliament i suggest people vote NDP to balance out the parliament. You act as if there is no choice and you have to vote Liberal what kind of democracy is that. Five Paradox does any thing the Liberals do make you upset, you should read some of the 218 things they have done in the past 12 years (It's the first link). The NDP actually stands for the things the Liberals say they do but fundamentally in fact essentially don't.

 

[Freethinker]

Re: RE: There are 218 reasons not to vote Liberal. What's yo

Why don't the Progressive voters give the NDP a chance. The Tories will win tommorrow so if you want a balanced parliament i suggest people vote NDP to balance out the parliament. You act as if there is no choice and you have to vote Liberal what kind of democracy is that. Five Paradox does any thing the Liberals do make you upset, you should read some of the 218 things they have done in the past 12 years (It's the first link). The NDP actually stands for the things the Liberals say they do but fundamentally in fact essentially don't.

Because I am voting strategically. In my riding has PC about 45%, Lib 35%, and NDP 15%. Since the most important thing to me is unseating Conservatives. I am voting for whoever is in number 2. That is what strategic voting is all about. If the NDP were leading the Liberals I would be voting for them.

Infighting among progressive voters only helps the conservatives.

 

[Uncle_Jalapeno]

The Liberals are anything but progressive. There can only be one progressive party and its not the Liberals. Strategic voting is a cop out and is bad for democracy. The tories are going to win anyways so it's useless. Go ahead vote Liberal, corruption seems to be ok with a lot of people.

 

[Freethinker]

Re: RE: There are 218 reasons not to vote Liberal. What's yo

The Liberals are anything but progressive. There can only be one progressive party and its not the Liberals. Strategic voting is a cop out and is bad for democracy. The tories are going to win anyways so it's useless. Go ahead vote Liberal, corruption seems to be ok with a lot of people.

There can only be one progressive party?? Liberals - Passed bill giving full same sex marriage rights. One of the first few countrys in the world. I don't even know anyone gay, but I was proud to see my country leading on human rights. They were about to decriminalize Marijuanna. These are quite progressive actions.

How is my vote a cop out. I would prefer the Liberals in power to the NDP, and they have a better shot to win my riding, so I am voting for them. By your logic it would be a cop out to vote NDP if they were in the lead in my riding? Which I would do if it were the case.

If you really care about progressive values you would realize that there is a massive difference to what will happen to them under a Conservative Majority, Strong Conservative Minority, or a Weak Conservative Minority. Under the first two you can guarantee a roll back of Same sex marriage. But if we can keep the conservatives to weak minority, they will have to drop their socially conservative agenda and stick with the economy and limit cuts to any social programs.

I am voting for results here and that is no cop out.

 

[Uncle_Jalapeno]

I guess your fundamental values are essentially in fact corruption and scandal. Let the Liebrals back in. Why don't we just ban elections and promote King Paul absolute monarch. There seems to be only one choice anyways.

 

[Hank C]

Re: RE: There are 218 reasons not to vote Liberal. What's yo

There can only be one progressive party?? Liberals - Passed bill giving full same sex marriage rights. One of the first few countrys in the world. I don't even know anyone gay, but I was proud to see my country leading on human rights. They were about to decriminalize Marijuanna. These are quite progressive actions.

How is my vote a cop out. I would prefer the Liberals in power to the NDP, and they have a better shot to win my riding, so I am voting for them. By your logic it would be a cop out to vote NDP if they were in the lead in my riding? Which I would do if it were the case.

If you really care about progressive values you would realize that there is a massive difference to what will happen to them under a Conservative Majority, Strong Conservative Minority, or a Weak Conservative Minority. Under the first two you can guarantee a roll back of Same sex marriage. But if we can keep the conservatives to weak minority, they will have to drop their socially conservative agenda and stick with the economy and limit cuts to any social programs.

I am voting for results here and that is no cop out.

you have really bought into all that "progressive crap" paul martin spews havent ya....... and honestly there are far more importaint issues than homosexual marriage, and legalizing marajuanna. :roll:

 

[Freethinker]

Re: RE: There are 218 reasons not to vote Liberal. What's yo

you have really bought into all that "progressive crap" paul martin spews havent ya....... and honestly there are far more importaint issues than homosexual marriage, and legalizing marajuanna. :roll:

Does that cut both ways? Are there far more important issues than undoing them?

If I could change one thing it would be to have the Liberal Income tax cut instead of the GST cut which I think is completely wrong headed, but even in a minority government there is no chance this will be blocked, because budget issues are confidence issues and the government will get a free ride on those for at least a year.

The only issues that can be effectivily leashed are the social ones, because they are not confidence issues.

 

[the caracal kid]

People don't vote NDP becuase of their poor fiscal policy.

People don't vote Con because of their regressive social and poor fiscal policy.

People don't vote Lib because of "lack of leadership", or their quasi-progressive record combined with a see-saw fiscal history.

Regretably, people are as reactionary and short-sighted as their politicians. We have nothing by the polulists, and the mass/mob mentality.

An NDP led or a Lib led Coalition government is the only way to progessive government in the current scenario. The way to waffling is a Liberal majority, the way to regression is Conservatives in any form.

 

[FiveParadox]

If there are more important issues than same-sex marriage, then why would the Conservative Party of Canada risk losing the confidence of the House of Commons (the New Democratic Party of Canada has announced that it cannot support a Government who would rescind those rights).

 

[nomore]

Re: RE: There are 218 reasons not to vote Liberal. What's yo

If there are more important issues than same-sex marriage, then why would the Conservative Party of Canada risk losing the confidence of the House of Commons (the New Democratic Party of Canada has announced that it cannot support a Government who would rescind those rights).

You're assuming it will be a Tory minority :lol:

You are also assuming that the Conservatives will be the ones to introduce the issue into the house. You forget there are several Liberals that have concerns on the issue.

But in all seriousness, there are more important issues to be delt with. That is why the conservatives didn't make the ssm issue a platform priority.

Either way, this issue has been beat to death, and what it basically comes down to is that the definition of a "word" has nothing to do with rights, if two groups are afforded the same rights and freedoms as each other, than there is no question of equality. No different than men being called men, and women being called women, as long as they are afforded the same freedoms.

 

[Freethinker]

Re: RE: There are 218 reasons not to vote Liberal. What's yo

You're assuming it will be a Tory minority :lol:

A CPC minority does seem the most likely outcome. The bigger assumption is that the NDP will play any part in a CPC government. They wont. The CPC is not going to form a coalition, the will seek support on a per issue basis.

The two biggest factors:

Budget will pass. A new minority government will get some grace time and there is no chance they will fall in the first year unless something worse than gomery happened. That is nearly impossible. So their budget will pass and that is the majority of their program.

Next up will be devolution of powers to the provinces, CPC will get Bloc support on this one. NDP and Liberals against, but it wont matter.

Next budget will be like 2 years out and that will be the first time a minority conservative government might face a confidence challeng if the do something radical in the budget. If not this might be one of the longest lasting minority governments of our lifetime.

On SSM that depends on how many conservative MP's are elected, while Harper calls this a free vote, he knows where his party is on this one. Throw in another big TV campaign and the energized religious right working the phones to their MP's this legislation will most likely be rolled back. But even if the CPC lose, this is not a confidence item. They can always try again.

My take on this is that the government should simply get out of marriage. They issue civil unions to everyone from now on. It is essentially a legal contract after all.

Marriage is in the Domain of the religious institutions. That way equal rights for all and no tampering with the "word" marriage which seems to freak some people out.

 

[nomore]

Re: RE: There are 218 reasons not to vote Liberal. What's yo

My take on this is that the government should simply get out of marriage. They issue civil unions to everyone from now on. It is essentially a legal contract after all.

Marriage is in the Domain of the religious institutions. That way equal rights for all and no tampering with the "word" marriage which seems to freak some people out.

agreed.

 

[Machjo]

If you want change for the better, vote... me!

Next election, just write the word 'Machjo' (that's me) on your ballot, and at the bottom, explain that you'd like me to be MP for all the ridings in Canada and the Governor General. You can also explain that this will lead mo savings (only one MP to hire) and efficiency in government (no more time-consuming debates). this will also save money on elections (after all, once you have the perfect leader, you won't need to waste money on elections anymore. After all, what's teh point of an election when everyone will just vote me again anyway.