The worst part of it all is kelly ellard did not even know Rina Virk. Its hard to fathom how someone could do that to someone they did not even know. She has no remorse either. She appears defiant and nasty. Scary that this person will be living among us somewhere down the road.
Theo van Gogh Killed In Amsterdam
- Thread starter Rick van Opbergen
- Start date
Apparently the killing of Van Gogh is more than a random act of violence. It was an assasination designed to send a message.
http://frontpagemag.com/Articles/ReadArticle.asp?ID=15800
http://frontpagemag.com/Articles/ReadArticle.asp?ID=15800
Interesting article, facts. I really don't understand why its ok to murder someone because of your religious beliefs. It make me grateful I am a atheist.
I like the article, although a lot of influential Muslim organisations have renounced this brutal murder, which is contrary to what Islam teaches its followers, and I do not believe a majority of Dutch Muslims stand behind this. At this moment, there are 1 million Muslims in the Netherlands; but as said by many, Muslim is more of a name they are given than they are actually practising Islam. I remember that for example only 30% of the Moroccan youth visits the mosque regularly; among Turkish youth, this rate evens falls below the 15%. I know that for example among Reform Christians in the Netherlands, 40%-50% visits church every week (although I do not know the figures for Reform Christian youth).
Hey Pea, as a victim of high school teenage girl violence, that Reena story hit close to home, and I followed the trial through to it's conclusion. It was really sick how Ellard really seemed to show no remorse. 7 years isn't long enough before parole though...
Really Diamond, how horrible for you. What happened? Yes the Virk murder was unbelievable, it was a shock to the whole city. She did alot of things not mentioned in the article, like butting a cigarette on the victims face. She should have to do those 7 years in a american prison in Iraq. I also heard that her brother has been in alot of trouble with the law, alot of it to do with violence. Makes you wonder where they learned this from. She is a very nasty piece of work for only being 17 at the time. Apparently it was all over a boy.
I did as you suggested, Rick, and played Eric Clapton before reading that.. very sad 
Random acts of disgusting violence really fightens me! I've seen people attacked before for little or no real reasons.
One thing I do know, is that when I lived in Montreal, there were murders all the time. Near my house, close by in pubs and mostly instigated by gangs... Hells Angels and other small guys I've never heard of There was this one guy who was murdered because he was hitting on some girl who was somehow related to a Hells Angels member.
Random acts of disgusting violence really fightens me! I've seen people attacked before for little or no real reasons.One thing I do know, is that when I lived in Montreal, there were murders all the time. Near my house, close by in pubs and mostly instigated by gangs... Hells Angels and other small guys I've never heard of
There was this one guy who was murdered because he was hitting on some girl who was somehow related to a Hells Angels member.Well there's also the story of two girls who were shot dead some years ago in a pub, I forgot their names. Outside the pub, two guys were fighting, one of them got a gun and shot at the other guy, he missed but the bullets went through the door of this pub, called Bacchus; behind the door, three girls were just getting their jackets, as they were planning to leave. Two of them died, one was seriously injured. They had nothing to do with it, and they probably didn't even realize what happened when that one guy started to shoot.
Sadly, random acts of violence happen everywhere, but Theo van Gogh's murder is not one of them. This was not, in my view, an isolated lunatic who happens to be Islamic, it was a crime made inevitable by fundamentalist religious belief.
Some crucial facts, passed on by a friend of mine in Rotterdam, who I have no reason to doubt: there is in the Netherlands, and in fact in many western European nations, a militantly unassimilated community of fundamentalist Muslims, largely of Moroccan origin in the Dutch case, and they've ghettoized themselves. They live in the same neighbourhoods, they refuse to learn the language, or get educated, or find work, despite generous support available from the Dutch government to help them with that. They are led by a shrieking Emam who cannot return to Morocco because there's an open arrest warrant out for him there. These people are the dregs of the society they came from, yet they consider themselves morally superior to the culture they find themselves in and refuse to acknowledge its laws, claiming they're guided by a higher law--fundamentalist Islam-- that supercedes them.
They use the liberal Dutch laws to protect what they call their freedom of speech, and say unacceptable things like "all homosexuals should be killed." They have in the past threatened people who've criticized Islam, but this is the first time they've killed somebody over it. Theo van Gogh's murderer is a member of that community, and that makes this an act of terrorism by that community: criticize us and we'll kill you.
The Dutch are among the most tolerant people on the planet, but there are limits. No society can tolerate in its midst a large group that rejects its core values and is willing to take violent action against them. I don't know what the solution is, and sometimes I fear there isn't one that doesn't make the dominant society sink to the same level as its persecutors. What can you do, wall off the Islamic ghettos in Amsterdam and Rotterdam and burn them down? That'd solve it alright, but at what cost?
I see similar things in my own country. There's a militant community of expatriate Sikhs here, for instance, but so far they've only killed each other. And if we don't do something intelligent about the problems of our aboriginal population, especially where I live, in Saskatchewan, we're going to have serious problems pretty soon. Actually we already have serious problems, and they can only get worse if we don't do something.
But what to do? I don't know. If anybody does, I'd sure like to hear from you...
Dex
Some crucial facts, passed on by a friend of mine in Rotterdam, who I have no reason to doubt: there is in the Netherlands, and in fact in many western European nations, a militantly unassimilated community of fundamentalist Muslims, largely of Moroccan origin in the Dutch case, and they've ghettoized themselves. They live in the same neighbourhoods, they refuse to learn the language, or get educated, or find work, despite generous support available from the Dutch government to help them with that. They are led by a shrieking Emam who cannot return to Morocco because there's an open arrest warrant out for him there. These people are the dregs of the society they came from, yet they consider themselves morally superior to the culture they find themselves in and refuse to acknowledge its laws, claiming they're guided by a higher law--fundamentalist Islam-- that supercedes them.
They use the liberal Dutch laws to protect what they call their freedom of speech, and say unacceptable things like "all homosexuals should be killed." They have in the past threatened people who've criticized Islam, but this is the first time they've killed somebody over it. Theo van Gogh's murderer is a member of that community, and that makes this an act of terrorism by that community: criticize us and we'll kill you.
The Dutch are among the most tolerant people on the planet, but there are limits. No society can tolerate in its midst a large group that rejects its core values and is willing to take violent action against them. I don't know what the solution is, and sometimes I fear there isn't one that doesn't make the dominant society sink to the same level as its persecutors. What can you do, wall off the Islamic ghettos in Amsterdam and Rotterdam and burn them down? That'd solve it alright, but at what cost?
I see similar things in my own country. There's a militant community of expatriate Sikhs here, for instance, but so far they've only killed each other. And if we don't do something intelligent about the problems of our aboriginal population, especially where I live, in Saskatchewan, we're going to have serious problems pretty soon. Actually we already have serious problems, and they can only get worse if we don't do something.
But what to do? I don't know. If anybody does, I'd sure like to hear from you...
Dex
Dexter Sinister said:
Check this out, apparently a Rotterdam Mosque complained about a painting stating "Thou Shalt not Kill"
A Rotterdam artist, Chris Ripke, made an artwork to express his horror of the murder on Theo Van Gogh. A nice expression with an angel and the text "Thou shalt not kill" (See photo)
Chris is an artist with integrity whom has made nice statues near Angelo Betti (famous pizzeria). His studio is directly next to the mosque in the Insulinde-street. The mosque found the text "Thou shalt not kill" to be offensive. So they called Opstelten (Rotterdam mayor). As a journalist for the local TV station Cineac North i went there this morning to film it.
http://faithfreedom.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=5255
Dexter, good post. The motive of the murder is indeed linked to the fundamental belief the perpetrator has. As one might have read, a letter was stuck in Van Gogh's chest by the killer. Yesterday evening they announced that the letter was a warning for Ayaan Hirsi Ali, an ex-Muslim woman from Somalia who made a controversial movie about the rights of Muslim women along with Theo van Gogh. 'You [Hirsi Ali] will be next' it said. The perpetrator expected to die as a martyr following the murder, that's why he didn't surrender but started a firefight with the police (in that fight, he also shot a policeman, but the policeman survived); eventually though, he was shot in the leg, and could be arrested.
It is true that - especially in the four largest cities in the Netherlands, Amsterdam, Rotterdam, the Hague and Utrecht - there are quite large ghetto's with a predominant foreign population, especially Turks, Moroccans, as well as people from Suriname and the Netherlands Antilles - one of the most notorious being the Bijlmer ghetto in Amsterdam, and the Schilderswijk in the Hague. However, I do doubt whether the group of "militantly unassimilated community of fundamentalist Muslims" is as large as you might be suggesting Dexter. The AIVD (Dutch intelligence service) has been following approximately 150 radical Muslims the past year (although I do expect there to be more, for example, the one who killed Van Gogh wasn't one of the 150 radical Muslims, although he did have some connections to them). The unemployment rate among Turks and Moroccans is not as high as one might think: respectively 9% and 14% (although this is above the Dutch average of 4-5%). I do agree that we might have been underestimating the work of radical Imams in Dutch mosques; a lot of them are flown over from Morocco or Turkey, don't know the language, and meanwhile come from traditional areas in their homecountries, where values are very different from the ones we have here in the Netherlands. It's true that there have been Imams who said things like "all homosexual should be killed", although we should also take in consideration that some of them have been forced to make a public excuse on national television (Imam Hasselhoef), which is a good thing in my eyes. There is a law underway (or already accepted?) which forces all Imams to learn Dutch.
It is true that - especially in the four largest cities in the Netherlands, Amsterdam, Rotterdam, the Hague and Utrecht - there are quite large ghetto's with a predominant foreign population, especially Turks, Moroccans, as well as people from Suriname and the Netherlands Antilles - one of the most notorious being the Bijlmer ghetto in Amsterdam, and the Schilderswijk in the Hague. However, I do doubt whether the group of "militantly unassimilated community of fundamentalist Muslims" is as large as you might be suggesting Dexter. The AIVD (Dutch intelligence service) has been following approximately 150 radical Muslims the past year (although I do expect there to be more, for example, the one who killed Van Gogh wasn't one of the 150 radical Muslims, although he did have some connections to them). The unemployment rate among Turks and Moroccans is not as high as one might think: respectively 9% and 14% (although this is above the Dutch average of 4-5%). I do agree that we might have been underestimating the work of radical Imams in Dutch mosques; a lot of them are flown over from Morocco or Turkey, don't know the language, and meanwhile come from traditional areas in their homecountries, where values are very different from the ones we have here in the Netherlands. It's true that there have been Imams who said things like "all homosexual should be killed", although we should also take in consideration that some of them have been forced to make a public excuse on national television (Imam Hasselhoef), which is a good thing in my eyes. There is a law underway (or already accepted?) which forces all Imams to learn Dutch.
This is a part of the open letter the killer of Theo van Gogh left on his body. I'll first give it in Dutch, after that I'll give the English translation:
Er is geen agressie behalve tegen de agressors. Dit is een open brief aan de ongelovige fundamentalist Ayaan Hirshi Ali, van de haghoet partij VVD. Geachte mevrouw Hirshi Ali, sinds uw aantreden in de politieke arena van Nederland bent u constant bezig om de moslims en de Islam te terroriseren met uw uitlatingen. U heeft met uw afvalligheid niet alleen de Waarheid de rug toegekeerd, maar u marcheert ook nog eens in de ranken van de soldaten van het kwaad. U steekt uw vijandigheid tegen de Islam niet onder stoelen of banken en hiervoor bent u door uw meesters beloond met een zetel in het parlement. Zij hebben in u een medestander gevonden in hun kruistocht tegen de Islam en Moslims. Een medestander die hen alle 'kruit' aanreikt zodat zij hun handen zelf niet vuil hoeven te maken. Aangezien u verblind bent door de brandende ongelovigheid die in u woedt, bent u niet in staat om in te zien dat u slechts een instrument bent van de ware vijanden van de Islam. U wordt gebruikt om allerlei vijandigheden over de Islam en de meest edele mens, Mohammed Rasoeloe Alfah (Saila Aallaho alaihie wa Sallam), uit te spuien. Dit alles mevrouw Hirshi Ali neem ik u niet kwalijk, als soldaat van het kwaad doet u slechts uw werk.
(For so far, this is the English translation: There is no aggression except against the aggressors. This is an open letter to the unbelieving fundamentalist Ayaan Hirshi Ali [see one of my previous posts], of the haghoet party VVD [Liberals]. Dear miss Hirshi Ali, since the time you took office in the political arena of the Netherlands, you have been constantly trying to terrorise muslims and the Islam with your remarks. With your apostasy you have not only turned your back on the Truth, but you are also marching in the ranks of the soldiers of Evil. You do not hide your hostility against Islam and because of that you were granted a seat in parliament by your masters. In you they have found an ally in their crusade against the Islam and muslims. An ally who gives them all their 'ammunition' so they are not forced to do the dirty work. Since you are blinded by the raging unbelievingness which is burning in you, you are not capable of realising you are just an instrument of the true enemies of Islam. You are being used to spout all kinds of hostilities about Islam and the most honorable person, Muhammed Rasuluh Alfah (Saila Aallaho alaihie wa Sallam). For all this I do not blame you miss Hirshi Ali, as a soldier of evil you are just doing your job.)
The second part:
Deze brief is Insha Allah een poging om uw kwaad voor eens en altijd het zwijgen te doen opleggen. Deze geschreven woorden zullen Insha Allah uw masker doen laten vallen. Ik zou u graag de volgende vragen willen stellen: wat vindt u van het feit dat Van Aartsen een ideologie aanhangt waarin niet-Joden als niet-mensen worden gezien? Yebramoth 83a: Alle Gentile kinderen zijn dieren. Wat vindt u van het feit dat er een burgemeester in Amsterdam aan het roer staat, die een ideologie aanhangt waarin Joden tegen niet-Joden mogen liegen. Baba Kamma 113a: Joden mogen leugens ("listen") gebruiken om een Gentile te misleiden. Uw optreden verraadt zo nu en dan uw laffe moed waarmee u aandacht vraagt voor uw strijd. Zo heeft u de laffe moed gehad om Islamitische kinderen op school te vragen om een keuze te maken tussen hun Schepper en de grondwet. Het antwoord van deze jonge reine zielen heeft u meteen gebruikt om argumenten te bedenken om uw kruistocht te rechtvaardigen. U heeft met al deze vijandelijkheden een boemerang losgelaten en u weet dat het slechts een kwestie van tijd is voordat deze boemerang uw lot zal bezegelen.
U krijgt de kans echter, mevrouw Hirshi Ali, om uw gelijk voor eens en altijd in de bladzijdes van de geschiedenis in te kerven: Er is één zekerheid in het hele bestaan van de schepping; en dat is dat alles zijn einde kent. De dood, mevrouw Hirshi Ali, is het gemeenschappelijke thema van alles wat bestaat.
(English translation: This letter is Inshallah an attempt to stop your evil once and for all. These written words Inshallah will undo you from your mask. I really want to ask you the following questions: what is your opinion on the fact that Van Aartsen follows an ideology in which non-Jews are seen as non-humans? [Jozias van Aartsen is the leader of the VVD - the Dutch Liberals - and Jewish] Yebramoth 83a: All Gentile children are animals. What is your opinion on the fact that the mayor of Amsterdam worships an ideology in which Jews are allowed to lie against non-Jews? [Job Cohen, the mayor of Amsterdam, is Jewish] Baba Kamma 113a: Jews are allowed to use lies ("tricks") to mislead non-Jews. Your performance sometimes betrays your cowardly courage with which you ask attention for your battle. You had the cowardly courage to ask Islamic children at school to make a choice between their Creator and the constitution. The answer of these young pure souls were used by you to think of arguments to justify your crusade. With all these hostilities you have unleased a boomerang and you know it's just a matter of time before this boomerang seals your destiny.
You have the chance however, miss Hirshi Ali, to carve your right once and for all in the pages of history: There is just one certainty in the whole existence of the creation; and that is that everything has its end. Death, miss Hirshi Ali, is a common theme of all that exists.)
Er is geen agressie behalve tegen de agressors. Dit is een open brief aan de ongelovige fundamentalist Ayaan Hirshi Ali, van de haghoet partij VVD. Geachte mevrouw Hirshi Ali, sinds uw aantreden in de politieke arena van Nederland bent u constant bezig om de moslims en de Islam te terroriseren met uw uitlatingen. U heeft met uw afvalligheid niet alleen de Waarheid de rug toegekeerd, maar u marcheert ook nog eens in de ranken van de soldaten van het kwaad. U steekt uw vijandigheid tegen de Islam niet onder stoelen of banken en hiervoor bent u door uw meesters beloond met een zetel in het parlement. Zij hebben in u een medestander gevonden in hun kruistocht tegen de Islam en Moslims. Een medestander die hen alle 'kruit' aanreikt zodat zij hun handen zelf niet vuil hoeven te maken. Aangezien u verblind bent door de brandende ongelovigheid die in u woedt, bent u niet in staat om in te zien dat u slechts een instrument bent van de ware vijanden van de Islam. U wordt gebruikt om allerlei vijandigheden over de Islam en de meest edele mens, Mohammed Rasoeloe Alfah (Saila Aallaho alaihie wa Sallam), uit te spuien. Dit alles mevrouw Hirshi Ali neem ik u niet kwalijk, als soldaat van het kwaad doet u slechts uw werk.
(For so far, this is the English translation: There is no aggression except against the aggressors. This is an open letter to the unbelieving fundamentalist Ayaan Hirshi Ali [see one of my previous posts], of the haghoet party VVD [Liberals]. Dear miss Hirshi Ali, since the time you took office in the political arena of the Netherlands, you have been constantly trying to terrorise muslims and the Islam with your remarks. With your apostasy you have not only turned your back on the Truth, but you are also marching in the ranks of the soldiers of Evil. You do not hide your hostility against Islam and because of that you were granted a seat in parliament by your masters. In you they have found an ally in their crusade against the Islam and muslims. An ally who gives them all their 'ammunition' so they are not forced to do the dirty work. Since you are blinded by the raging unbelievingness which is burning in you, you are not capable of realising you are just an instrument of the true enemies of Islam. You are being used to spout all kinds of hostilities about Islam and the most honorable person, Muhammed Rasuluh Alfah (Saila Aallaho alaihie wa Sallam). For all this I do not blame you miss Hirshi Ali, as a soldier of evil you are just doing your job.)
The second part:
Deze brief is Insha Allah een poging om uw kwaad voor eens en altijd het zwijgen te doen opleggen. Deze geschreven woorden zullen Insha Allah uw masker doen laten vallen. Ik zou u graag de volgende vragen willen stellen: wat vindt u van het feit dat Van Aartsen een ideologie aanhangt waarin niet-Joden als niet-mensen worden gezien? Yebramoth 83a: Alle Gentile kinderen zijn dieren. Wat vindt u van het feit dat er een burgemeester in Amsterdam aan het roer staat, die een ideologie aanhangt waarin Joden tegen niet-Joden mogen liegen. Baba Kamma 113a: Joden mogen leugens ("listen") gebruiken om een Gentile te misleiden. Uw optreden verraadt zo nu en dan uw laffe moed waarmee u aandacht vraagt voor uw strijd. Zo heeft u de laffe moed gehad om Islamitische kinderen op school te vragen om een keuze te maken tussen hun Schepper en de grondwet. Het antwoord van deze jonge reine zielen heeft u meteen gebruikt om argumenten te bedenken om uw kruistocht te rechtvaardigen. U heeft met al deze vijandelijkheden een boemerang losgelaten en u weet dat het slechts een kwestie van tijd is voordat deze boemerang uw lot zal bezegelen.
U krijgt de kans echter, mevrouw Hirshi Ali, om uw gelijk voor eens en altijd in de bladzijdes van de geschiedenis in te kerven: Er is één zekerheid in het hele bestaan van de schepping; en dat is dat alles zijn einde kent. De dood, mevrouw Hirshi Ali, is het gemeenschappelijke thema van alles wat bestaat.
(English translation: This letter is Inshallah an attempt to stop your evil once and for all. These written words Inshallah will undo you from your mask. I really want to ask you the following questions: what is your opinion on the fact that Van Aartsen follows an ideology in which non-Jews are seen as non-humans? [Jozias van Aartsen is the leader of the VVD - the Dutch Liberals - and Jewish] Yebramoth 83a: All Gentile children are animals. What is your opinion on the fact that the mayor of Amsterdam worships an ideology in which Jews are allowed to lie against non-Jews? [Job Cohen, the mayor of Amsterdam, is Jewish] Baba Kamma 113a: Jews are allowed to use lies ("tricks") to mislead non-Jews. Your performance sometimes betrays your cowardly courage with which you ask attention for your battle. You had the cowardly courage to ask Islamic children at school to make a choice between their Creator and the constitution. The answer of these young pure souls were used by you to think of arguments to justify your crusade. With all these hostilities you have unleased a boomerang and you know it's just a matter of time before this boomerang seals your destiny.
You have the chance however, miss Hirshi Ali, to carve your right once and for all in the pages of history: There is just one certainty in the whole existence of the creation; and that is that everything has its end. Death, miss Hirshi Ali, is a common theme of all that exists.)
"Zinloos" is a song by Lange Frans & Baas B about "useless" violence. I really like the song. I don't think any of you will - it's in Dutch - but I do want to share the lyrics with you. First the Dutch part:
Daniel van Cottem bracht z'n chick naar het station
en hoe de fuck kon hij nou weten
dat z'n einde daar begon
hij kreeg een klap voor z'n kop maar keek niet om hield z'n mond
tot ie de volgende ochtend met hersenletsel opstond
z'n pa vond dat het tijd werd voor het ziekenhuis
ik freakte als een gek toen ik het zag op de buis
die ene klap dat was de fatale
hij zou het einde van de dag niet meer halen
Joes Kloppenburg hij ging uit in onze hoofdstad
Amsterdam vrijdagavond dat beloofd wat
is wat hij dacht
maar die nacht bracht wat anders mee
zag een gevecht aan het einde van een lange steeg
was niet het type dat zweeg
waardoor hij zo veranderde in het type dat de klappen kreeg
kwam in het nauw werd getrapt en zegt niet wat ie wou
het allerlaatste wat ie schreeuwde dat was KAPPEN NOU!
Refrein (2x)
Hoeveel moeten moeten er nog komen
Hoeveel moeten er nog gaan
Wie waren deze helden
We doen het hier in jullie naam
Meindert Tjoelkert
probeert een fiets van de gracht te redden
om maar is ff iets te zeggen
en of het nodig was
de daders vonden van wel
ze pakten daarna nog een biertje en z'n grafsteen spel
en ik de moed er wat van te zeggen
waar zijn we veilig, kan iemand mij dit uitleggen
en waarom zien we al die woede
ik kwam alleen maar op voor het goede
Renee Steegmans deed z'n dagelijkse boodschappen
hij kon niet weten dat ze hem zouden doodtrappen
riep twee drollen op een brommer tot de orde
waardoor hijzelf niet het slachtoffer zou worden
vroeg om respect ging gestrekt en werd afgebekt
en met een helm werd er vet op hem ingemept
das niet correct, is wat wij zeggen en dat is zeker waar
waar zijn die mensen van stond erbij en keek ernaar
Refrein (2x)
Hoeveel moeten moeten er nog komen
Hoeveel moeten er nog gaan
Wie waren deze helden
We doen het hier in jullie naam
De lijst is lang,
godallemachtig met Kerwin Duinmeijer sinds augustus 83
en de trend van het moment is nog killer en kouder en de angst en de haat zijn vertrouwder.
Ligt het aan ons zelf ligt het aan het lot? Kijken we naar boven richten we tot God, weer een stille tocht weer iemand kapot en schieten op de deur van de disco is geen sport.
Nou ik hem meer gemeen met de slachtoffers dan de daders, dus deze is voor hun moeders en vaders, hun broeders en zusters die niet meer kunnen rusten. En hopelijk maken we iemand bewuster.
verkeerde tijd en een verkeerde plek is dat de juiste situatie voor de juiste gek?
Nou check jezelf en verdedig je grenzen want aan het eind van de dag zijn we allemaal mensen!!
Refrein (2x)
Hoeveel moeten moeten er nog komen
Hoeveel moeten er nog gaan
Wie waren deze helden
We doen het hier in jullie naam
In English:
Daniel van Cottem brought his chick to the [train]station
and how could he have known
that his end started there
They slapped him against his head but he didn't look back and didn't say anything
until he got up with brain damage the next morning
His dad thought it was time to go to the hospital
I totally freaked when I say it on the tube
that one slap was the fatal one
He wouldn't see the end of the day
Joes Kloppenburg, he went out in our capital
Amsterdam on friday night that's something
is what he thought
but that night meant something else for him
he saw a fight at the end of a long alley
wasn't the type to say nothing
and by that turned into the person who got all the blows
got his back against the wall, got kicked and didn't say what he wanted to say
the last thing he yelled was STOP THAT!
Chorus (2X)
How many more are supposed to come
How many more are supposed to go [die]
Who were these heroes
We are doing this in your names
Meindert Tjoelkert
Tried to save a bike from the canal
just to say something [about it]
and whether this was necessary
the perpetrators thought it was
they grabbed another beer and his gravestone was [there]
and I the courage to say something about it
Where are we safe, can someone explain that to me,
and why are we seeing all this anger
I just stood up for all what's good
Rene Steegmans was doing his daily shopping
He couldn't have known they would kick him to death
called two idiots on a moped to order
so that he himself would not become a victim
asked for respect, went stretched and snapped at
and smacked at with a helmet
that's not correct, is what we say and that is so true
where are those people who just stood by and watched it all
Chorus (2X)
The list is long,
God Almighty [starting] with Kerwin Duinmeijer in august 83
and the trend of the moment is even more frigid and colder and the fear and hatred are more familiar
Is it us, is it destiny? Are we looking up, aiming at God, another silent trek ["stille tocht", a silent trek to honor someone] another person kaput and shooting through the door of a disco is not a sport [two girls where killed in a disco some years ago after a person shot through the door of the disco; they had nothing to with the perpetrator]
Now I have more in common with the victims than with the perpetrators, so this one is for the mothers and fathers, their brothers and sisters who can not rest anymore. And hopefully we are making somebody more aware,
Wrong time and a wrong spot is that the correct situation for the correct madman?
Now check yourself and defend yourself because at the end of the day we are all humans!!
Chorus (2X)
I know the English translation is really crappy, but the song is really great.
Daniel van Cottem bracht z'n chick naar het station
en hoe de fuck kon hij nou weten
dat z'n einde daar begon
hij kreeg een klap voor z'n kop maar keek niet om hield z'n mond
tot ie de volgende ochtend met hersenletsel opstond
z'n pa vond dat het tijd werd voor het ziekenhuis
ik freakte als een gek toen ik het zag op de buis
die ene klap dat was de fatale
hij zou het einde van de dag niet meer halen
Joes Kloppenburg hij ging uit in onze hoofdstad
Amsterdam vrijdagavond dat beloofd wat
is wat hij dacht
maar die nacht bracht wat anders mee
zag een gevecht aan het einde van een lange steeg
was niet het type dat zweeg
waardoor hij zo veranderde in het type dat de klappen kreeg
kwam in het nauw werd getrapt en zegt niet wat ie wou
het allerlaatste wat ie schreeuwde dat was KAPPEN NOU!
Refrein (2x)
Hoeveel moeten moeten er nog komen
Hoeveel moeten er nog gaan
Wie waren deze helden
We doen het hier in jullie naam
Meindert Tjoelkert
probeert een fiets van de gracht te redden
om maar is ff iets te zeggen
en of het nodig was
de daders vonden van wel
ze pakten daarna nog een biertje en z'n grafsteen spel
en ik de moed er wat van te zeggen
waar zijn we veilig, kan iemand mij dit uitleggen
en waarom zien we al die woede
ik kwam alleen maar op voor het goede
Renee Steegmans deed z'n dagelijkse boodschappen
hij kon niet weten dat ze hem zouden doodtrappen
riep twee drollen op een brommer tot de orde
waardoor hijzelf niet het slachtoffer zou worden
vroeg om respect ging gestrekt en werd afgebekt
en met een helm werd er vet op hem ingemept
das niet correct, is wat wij zeggen en dat is zeker waar
waar zijn die mensen van stond erbij en keek ernaar
Refrein (2x)
Hoeveel moeten moeten er nog komen
Hoeveel moeten er nog gaan
Wie waren deze helden
We doen het hier in jullie naam
De lijst is lang,
godallemachtig met Kerwin Duinmeijer sinds augustus 83
en de trend van het moment is nog killer en kouder en de angst en de haat zijn vertrouwder.
Ligt het aan ons zelf ligt het aan het lot? Kijken we naar boven richten we tot God, weer een stille tocht weer iemand kapot en schieten op de deur van de disco is geen sport.
Nou ik hem meer gemeen met de slachtoffers dan de daders, dus deze is voor hun moeders en vaders, hun broeders en zusters die niet meer kunnen rusten. En hopelijk maken we iemand bewuster.
verkeerde tijd en een verkeerde plek is dat de juiste situatie voor de juiste gek?
Nou check jezelf en verdedig je grenzen want aan het eind van de dag zijn we allemaal mensen!!
Refrein (2x)
Hoeveel moeten moeten er nog komen
Hoeveel moeten er nog gaan
Wie waren deze helden
We doen het hier in jullie naam
In English:
Daniel van Cottem brought his chick to the [train]station
and how could he have known
that his end started there
They slapped him against his head but he didn't look back and didn't say anything
until he got up with brain damage the next morning
His dad thought it was time to go to the hospital
I totally freaked when I say it on the tube
that one slap was the fatal one
He wouldn't see the end of the day
Joes Kloppenburg, he went out in our capital
Amsterdam on friday night that's something
is what he thought
but that night meant something else for him
he saw a fight at the end of a long alley
wasn't the type to say nothing
and by that turned into the person who got all the blows
got his back against the wall, got kicked and didn't say what he wanted to say
the last thing he yelled was STOP THAT!
Chorus (2X)
How many more are supposed to come
How many more are supposed to go [die]
Who were these heroes
We are doing this in your names
Meindert Tjoelkert
Tried to save a bike from the canal
just to say something [about it]
and whether this was necessary
the perpetrators thought it was
they grabbed another beer and his gravestone was [there]
and I the courage to say something about it
Where are we safe, can someone explain that to me,
and why are we seeing all this anger
I just stood up for all what's good
Rene Steegmans was doing his daily shopping
He couldn't have known they would kick him to death
called two idiots on a moped to order
so that he himself would not become a victim
asked for respect, went stretched and snapped at
and smacked at with a helmet
that's not correct, is what we say and that is so true
where are those people who just stood by and watched it all
Chorus (2X)
The list is long,
God Almighty [starting] with Kerwin Duinmeijer in august 83
and the trend of the moment is even more frigid and colder and the fear and hatred are more familiar
Is it us, is it destiny? Are we looking up, aiming at God, another silent trek ["stille tocht", a silent trek to honor someone] another person kaput and shooting through the door of a disco is not a sport [two girls where killed in a disco some years ago after a person shot through the door of the disco; they had nothing to with the perpetrator]
Now I have more in common with the victims than with the perpetrators, so this one is for the mothers and fathers, their brothers and sisters who can not rest anymore. And hopefully we are making somebody more aware,
Wrong time and a wrong spot is that the correct situation for the correct madman?
Now check yourself and defend yourself because at the end of the day we are all humans!!
Chorus (2X)
I know the English translation is really crappy, but the song is really great.
Source: the Economist.Another political murder
Nov 4th 2004 | AMSTERDAM
For the second time in two years a horrific murder has traumatised Dutch society
THE first time the Dutch hoped it was a freak incident. But a second political murder in the Netherlands in the space of two years has left this country, which has long prided itself on its tolerant, liberal values, in deep shock. Dutch people fear that they may now live in a place where violence has become a way of settling differences of opinion - especially over rocky relations with a growing Muslim minority.
An outspoken and provocative film director, Theo van Gogh, was murdered in Amsterdam on the morning of November 2nd. A 26-year-old Dutch Moroccan apparently emptied a magazine of bullets into his victim, knifed him as he lay dying and left a note stabbed into his body. He was arrested after a shoot-out with police. Ironically, Mr Van Gogh was killed as he was cycling to the studio to finish editing a film about the previous political murder, of the flamboyant anti-immigrant populist Pim Fortuyn in May 2002. Fortuyn, whom Mr Van Gogh admired, was killed by an animal-rights activist of ethnic-Dutch origin. At the time the fact that the killer was neither Muslim nor an immigrant was greeted with relief by politicians and public alike.
No such relief this time. The victim was an outspoken and often offensive critic of Islam, who once called radical Islamist immigrants “a fifth column of goatfuckers”. His killer was a jallaba-clad Muslim immigrant and associate of a radical group that Dutch intelligence has been watching. Police arrested eight more Islamist suspects the next day. The justice minister said the murder stemmed from “radical Islamic beliefs”. Mr Van Gogh was killed a few months after the screening on television of his film “Submission”. The film, based on a screenplay by a Dutch parliamentarian, Ayaan Hirsi Ali, features a Muslim woman in a see-through burqa telling a story of abuse within her marriage; she has text from the Koran condoning family violence written on to her naked body.
Ms Hirsi Ali is a Somali refugee who has made a career in Dutch politics by standing against radical Islam and defending her adopted homeland's liberal values. She even quit the Dutch Labour Party for the liberals because she thought it too soft on illiberal Islam. Both she and Mr Van Gogh received death threats after “Submission” was shown. She accepted protection, but he waved the threats away, saying he was just “a merry village fool”. Who would want to kill somebody like that?
The government labelled the murder an “act against freedom of expression”, and organised an Amsterdam rally against it. The protesters worried that the killing might be a sign that they are no longer free to express controversial views, or pursue the most outlandish lifestyles, without fearing for their personal safety.
Despite the speedy condemnation of the murder by most Muslim organisations, it could still provoke a sharper clash. This is more worrying since the Netherlands is a country where, at least economically, immigrants do better than in many others. Although they are worse off than the ethnic Dutch, there is no immigrant underclass, and no real ghettos exist. Some immigrants are, like Ms Hirsi Ali, already joining the Dutch middle class, both in incomes and in lifestyle.
Despite the harsh debate begun by Fortuyn three years ago, the country suffers from little overt racism. Fortuyn himself insisted that he was no racist, and bitterly dissented from comparisons between his party and France's National Front. Many immigrant groups, such as Surinamese, Chinese or eastern Europeans, fit quite happily into the Netherlands.
But the gulf between the ethnic Dutch and Muslims has widened (there are almost 1m Muslims in a total population of 16m). Misunderstandings tend to centre around slippery cultural values and social norms. To many Dutch people, the idea of building a multicultural society has failed. Fortuyn's rise to fame three years ago was a sign of how widespread this view had become. Integration is the buzzword now. Many Dutch feel that the time has come for the Muslim minority to adjust to where they live and adopt Dutch values - precisely the view espoused by Ms Hirsi Ali.
The debate is coming at a moment when the Dutch are fretting over a general weakening of their social cohesion. Many see immigrants as at best a symbol of this change, and at worst as one of its causes. After this week, more will feel threatened because their Muslim neighbours do not share their liberal values. Dutch hostility to the prospect of Turkish membership of the European Union may also intensify.
The hard-hitting policies of the current immigration minister, Rita Verdonk, have been adjusted to respond to such fears. They include such measures as limiting the influx of immigrants by arranged marriages and making more effort to integrate newcomers into Dutch society, for example by compelling them to learn the Dutch language.
Many immigrants say the government's aim is full assimilation. They attack what they see as a lack of knowledge and respect for their own cultural and social norms. And many Dutch of Moroccan and Turkish origin feel offended that they are still officially tagged as “foreign” despite being born and educated in the Netherlands. But that is not likely to change now. Instead, more public figures have been calling on Muslim groups to accept the liberal society they find themselves in - and on the government to force them to if they will not do so voluntarily.
source: www.cnn.comDutch Muslim school attacked
Police say bomb linked to murder of filmmaker
Monday, November 8, 2004 Posted: 0956 GMT (1756 HKT)
Flower memorial to Dutch filmmaker Theo Van Gogh, killed last Tuesday.
THE HAGUE, Netherlands (AP) - A suspected bomb has blown the front door off a Muslim elementary school in a southern Dutch town and shattered windows across the street, days after a suspected Muslim radical killed a Dutch filmmaker, police said. Television news footage showed the burnt-out entrance of the school, which was empty at the time of the attack at around 3:30 a.m. Monday (0230GMT). There were no reports of injuries.
Police suspected it was related to the murder last week of Dutch filmmaker Theo van Gogh by a suspected Islamic radical, said spokesman Cees Dekkers in Eindhoven, about 120 kilometers (about 75 miles) south of the Dutch capital Amsterdam. The school sustained substantial damage inside, he said. The Tarieq Ibnu Zyad Islamic school, said to have links with a mosque that has allegedly been a gathering place for radicals, also suffered a minor attack a year ago. Dekkers said police had visited Islamic schools in the city, but had not decided on additional security measures.
Eindhoven Mayor Alexander Sakkers was meeting later with parents of students. "It is essential that we stick together," he told the NOS television network. "One single person who pulls off such an idiot act ... should not have the result that our society goes to pot in this way." Van Gogh's killing sparked a series of attacks over the weekend, including two attempts to burn down mosques. Dutch Interior Minister Johan Remkes said Van Gogh's death should not be blamed on the Muslim community as a whole.
Eight suspected Islamic extremists have been arrested in connection with Tuesday's slaying of Theo van Gogh, who earlier this year released a film critical of how women are treated under Islam. Among those arrested was a 26-year-old accused of killing the filmmaker, identified only as Mohammed Bouyeri. Although mainstream Muslim groups condemned the killing, it has caused an outpouring of anger in the Netherlands.
Vandals threw red paint Saturday night on a center in Amsterdam that aids immigrants, many of them Muslim. The agency, called the Emcemo Center, is located several blocks from the spot where Van Gogh was killed, and its director, Abdou Menebhi, told local television station AT5 that he believed the vandals were racists.
In the town of Huizen, police arrested two men they say were caught preparing to ignite a fire at the An-Nasr mosque Friday night, national news service NOS reported. A mosque in the city of Breda sustained minor fire damage in another reported arson attempt. A small fire was also set at a mosque in Utrecht, police said, and a pig's head was left in a plastic bag outside a mosque in Amsterdam. NOS reported Sunday that pamphlets with the image of a pig and a slur against Muslims were circulating in Rotterdam. Van Gogh, a distant relative of the famous painter Vincent van Gogh, released "Submission" in August. The film was criticized as insensitive by some Muslim groups.
Van Gogh was shot while riding his bicycle and then stabbed and had his throat cut. His killer left a five-page note quoting from the Quran and threatening more attacks. Prosecutors believe the killer was part of a terrorist group with international links.
Jus thought, I'll post this, as I live in Eindhoven where the Muslim school was attacked, there was a lot about it on the news. Eindhoven has a large Muslim community, about 14,000 or so on a population of 210,000, five mosques, but most live in what we call the "bad neighborhoods".
Things seem to be heating up in Holland:
Terror group warns Dutch to end mosque reprisals
The Islamic Tawhid Brigades said that it would not look on powerless in the face of further attacks on Muslim institutions and warned "the Dutch government and the people will pay heavily".
http://www.expatica.com/source/site...ror+group+warns+Dutch+to+end+mosque+reprisals
Terror group warns Dutch to end mosque reprisals
The Islamic Tawhid Brigades said that it would not look on powerless in the face of further attacks on Muslim institutions and warned "the Dutch government and the people will pay heavily".
http://www.expatica.com/source/site...ror+group+warns+Dutch+to+end+mosque+reprisals
And this:
The government is also preparing to close radical mosques.
And punish (yes, punish) imams who want to punish the Dutch for being Dutch.
In the hurried works are efforts to clamp down on possible terrorist-financing schemes.
Blank checks are being written to fund anti-terrorist efforts and such.
Go ahead, call the Dutch insensitive. They won't be offended. They're enraged, they're afraid, and they're fighting a war. And they won't forget it as quickly as many Americans have.
http://www.faithfreedom.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=5373
The government is also preparing to close radical mosques.
And punish (yes, punish) imams who want to punish the Dutch for being Dutch.
In the hurried works are efforts to clamp down on possible terrorist-financing schemes.
Blank checks are being written to fund anti-terrorist efforts and such.
Go ahead, call the Dutch insensitive. They won't be offended. They're enraged, they're afraid, and they're fighting a war. And they won't forget it as quickly as many Americans have.
http://www.faithfreedom.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=5373