Theo van Gogh Killed In Amsterdam

Rick van Opbergen

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I do want to say that the suggested "poll" in the first article you provided (about 300,000 Dutch Muslims supporting extremist mosques etc.) is absolutely nonsense. There never was such a poll.

Meanwhile, as Just the Facts also said, the climate is still heating up. Yesterday night (november 9th), an Islamic school in Uden burned down; later that night, an Islamic school in the city of Heerenveen was also put on fire, but could be extinguished before it spread. What is also relatively unnoticed, has been the fact that in the last two days, four Protestant churches and one Roman Catholic church were put on fire. Some link that to the threats made by the Tawhid Brigades, but for now, there is no proof of that. On the Islamic school which was burned down yesterday in Uden, things like "Theo [van Gogh] RIP" and White Power signs were sprayed at the walls of the school.
 

Rick van Opbergen

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I know, it's been on the news all day. They're still not sure what is going exactly going on.... Oh I see one of the suspects has surrendered to the police. They say the entire building is full of explosives. There are snipers on the roof, I've seen pictures of it, it's like a warzone.
 

Rick van Opbergen

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The just have arrested two men and taken them away. The rumour goes the house which is besieged is full of explosives AND possible terrorists wanting to blow themselves up (like in Madrid) ... there is much unclear though ... there was also a big fight between Moroccan youth and Dutch extreme-right youth near the site.
 

Dexter Sinister

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I find this more than a little alarming. You know when the government calls out the military to deal with a domestic situation, it perceives the situation to be about as frightening as it could be. And for it to happen in the Netherlands, a sane and civilized society with deeply-rooted traditions of civil liberties and enlightened tolerance going back centuries, it's doubly scary.

Pim Fortuyn was right. He warned his compatriots years ago of the dangers of tolerating what I recently described--in this thread, I think--as a militantly unassimilated minority that rejects the core values of the society it lives in. We cannot be tolerant of intolerance, we have to draw a line somewhere. A great pity Pim didn't survive long enough to share his pithy comments about this situation. I presume he'd be smart enough not to say "I told you so," but I'd have liked to hear what he might have said.

Today I received a deeply distressing email from a close friend of mine in Rotterdam. Well, Schiedam, to be precise. He's very upset, with good reason, and I'm upset because he's upset. For a variety of reasons, it matters very much to me what happens in the Netherlands. Here are some of the reasons:

-men of my father's generation (including my father) liberated the Dutch from the Nazis, and a still grateful Dutch government sends thousands of tulip bulbs to us every year for the annual tulip festival in our national capital, which is a truly magnificent sight. I feel an almost proprietary interest in the Netherlands.

-the Dutch have always been held up to me as a sterling example of diligence, industry, and tolerance. Those are things I've come to value highly.

-one of my best buddies lives there. I visited his father in a nursing home when I was there a few years ago, on my way home from a job in Cairo. The first thing he said to me, despite being felled by a massive stroke several months before, was "thank you for liberating us." He died a few weeks after that. I've always believed that he hung on as long as he did because he knew for months that I was coming and he wanted to say that to a Canadian. That memory still chokes me up a bit.

Doesn't seem to be much else to say after that.

Dex
 

Rick van Opbergen

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I do think we might have ignored the problems which started to exist after 9/11. After 9/11, society started to harden more and more, especially between muslims and non-muslims. Although we have never experienced such violent and massive attacks on both Islamic institutions and Christian institutions as the last few days, the number of attacks on especially Islamic institutions have much increased already after 9/11. We slowly also became aware of the fact that we had underestimated the number of militant, fundamentalist muslims who were among us, although that number is still low. The fact that some mosques preached that it is justified to beat your wife, and that it is right to kill Jews, gays and even Christians shocked a lot of us. This was associated with the fact a lot of imams (religious leaders) in the Netherlands are "imported" from the traditional countrysides of especially Morocco, who seemed to have another view on all of this.

The feeling I have is very double at the moment. I fear the polarisation that is happening now between muslims and non-muslims. People are scared. Two months ago, a poll showed only 20% of the Dutch feared a terrorist attack on our soil; now, that has risen to 80%. As I said before, the majority of people are not opposed anymore to restrict certain personal freedoms if that can help "national security" (the "Dutch Patriot Act").

But people are also discovering another side of the Netherlands. I live in a region in the south that well has always been a bit known of the relatively large amount of extreme-right youth. That's why a lot of attacks in the recent days were centred in my region: the bombing of an Islamic school in Eindhoven (where I live), and the burning down of an Islamic school in Uden (a place nearby). Signs of white power and that sort of racist sh*t were drawn on the walls. What's more disturbing, however, was the report I just saw on television about the youth in Uden. There seems to be a lot of support for the burning down of the Islamic school. You hear guys say "well they burn down our churches, it's justified to burn down their mosques and schools" (taking into notice that the last two days or so five churches were put on fire; we don't know whether this is the work of fundamentalist muslims whatever, and we should also notice that happened AFTER the first attacks on mosques etc., so it's just plain nonsense), or "we white Dutch have been too oppressed by these newcomers, we have to gain control again". It's just really frightening.

I can understand your friend is very concerned about this Dexter. We all are. We've talked a lot about it, me and my friends, and me and my family. You also hear a lot of muslims who put their children off Islamic schools, elderly muslims who don't speak Dutch are not leaving their houses anymore, female muslims are putting off their hijab out of fear of negative reactions. Yesterday I saw a woman on television, it was just heartbreaking to see. She was a Dutch woman, married with a Morroccan man, and they had two children, whom were both raised in Islam. And she told the reporter "what should I tell my children? tell me. the murderer of Van Gogh was muslim. What should I tell them?" and she started to cry.

The situation is just really tensed at the moment. I just hope it won't last.
 

Rick van Opbergen

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Dutch mosque damaged by fire
Saturday, November 13, 2004 Posted: 2:52 AM EST (0752 GMT)

THE HAGUE, Netherlands (AP) - A mosque in the southeastern Dutch village of Helden, near the German border, was badly damaged by a fire early Saturday, police said. It took firefighters around half an hour to extinguish the flames and the building was damaged "both inside and out," said police spokesman Peter Raaij.

The possibility of arson was being investigated, and an alternative site was made available to the village's Muslim community, he said. The fire comes at the end of the Ramadan when Muslims celebrate the Eid al-Fitr Islamic feast. The fire broke out at around 6 a.m. (0500GMT) in the mosque in the southern province of Limburg. There have been more than 20 incidents of fires or vandalism at Muslim buildings - and a handful of retaliatory attacks on Christian churches - since the Nov. 2 killing of Dutch filmmaker Theo van Gogh by a suspected Muslim extremist.
Van Gogh, a distant relative of the famous painter, made a film highly critical of the treatment of women under Islam. He was shot and stabbed to death while cycling on an Amsterdam street. A note pinned to his chest with a knife threatened further attacks on several Dutch politicians in the name of militant Islam.
source: www.cnn.com

The suspects arrested in The Hague (the stand-off) were planning to murder Ayaan Hirshi Ali and Geert Wilders, two right-winged politicians, according to the NRC, one of the largest Dutch newspapers.