The witness to Jesus

Dexter Sinister

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... Dexter is a losing atheist ...
... a loser, because he takes a way against God Almighty, and try to take the subject as a joke seeing himself loftier than the books of God.
If you think I see this subject as a joke, your comprehension is even more limited than I thought. I think this is a deadly serious subject and people who think as you do are dangerous to those who disagree with you. I think, for instance, that you would cheerfully see me destroyed and believe it was no less than I deserved as a heretic and unbeliever, and I think that given a chance you'd happily take part in my destruction and think you were doing god's work. That's how religion has behaved throughout history when it's had the secular power to do so, and nothing you've posted would lead me to expect you to be any different. In fact I think you'd be seduced by power sooner than most.
 
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eanassir

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No you don't. You follow Mohamed first, and God a distant second.

This is not true; I follow Mohammed in what God revealed to him, and he did not utter the Quran of his own accord and from his own, so to obey the messenger (or the apostle) is in fact the obedience to God Himself that sent him.

In fact you try to separate God from His apostles. Or do you say that one should disobey the apostle of God?

( Those who unbelieve in God and His apostles [: messengers], and intend to discriminate God from His apostles [by denying some of them],

and say: "We believe in some [of the prophets] and unbelieve in others" [: Jews unbelieve in Jesus and Mohammed; Christians unbelieve in Mohammed]

and intend to take a course midway [between guidance and misguidance.]

These, in truth, are the unbelievers; and We have prepared for the unbelievers a humiliating chastisement.

And those who believe in God and His apostles :) messengers), and do not discriminate anyone from among them; He will give to them their recompenses; God [certainly] is ever Most-Forgiving, Most Merciful.)

The above between brackets is the explanation of the Quran 4: 150-152
إِنَّ الَّذِينَ يَكْفُرُونَ بِاللّهِ وَرُسُلِهِ وَيُرِيدُونَ أَن يُفَرِّقُواْ بَيْنَ اللّهِ وَرُسُلِهِ وَيقُولُونَ نُؤْمِنُ بِبَعْضٍ وَنَكْفُرُ بِبَعْضٍ وَيُرِيدُونَ أَن يَتَّخِذُواْ بَيْنَ ذَلِكَ سَبِيلاً
أُوْلَـئِكَ هُمُ الْكَافِرُونَ حَقًّا وَأَعْتَدْنَا لِلْكَافِرِينَ عَذَابًا مُّهِينًا
quran-ayat.co

If you think I see this subject as a joke, your comprehension is even more limited than I thought. I think this is a deadly serious subject and people who think as you do are dangerous to those who disagree with you. I think, for instance, that you would cheerfully see me destroyed and believe it was no less than I deserved as a heretic and unbeliever, and I think that given a chance you'd happily take part in my destruction and think you were doing god's work. That's how religion has behaved throughout history when it's had the secular power to do so, and nothing you've posted would lead me to expect you to be any different. In fact I think you'd be seduced by power sooner than most.

Nothing of what you said is true; you only take this as an excuse to oppose the religion of God.
 

eanassir

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That is who is a Christians master is. His task (next few) is to resurrect people from the graves

There will not be any resurrection from the grave; the man in fact is the spiritual soul not the material body, and there will be no need for the body after the soul leaves it.
The body will not be restored


If no man (except Jesus) has seen God's face...

No one neither Jesus nor any angel or prophet or any creature can see God
(Sights perceive Him not, but He does perceive sights, and He is the Compassionate, the Well-Aware.)

The above is the explanation of the aya 6: 103

لاَّ تُدْرِكُهُ الأَبْصَارُ وَهُوَ يُدْرِكُ الأَبْصَارَ وَهُوَ اللَّطِيفُ الْخَبِيرُ

There is an aya in the Gospel of a similar implication: that "Do your charity in secret because my Lord in secret (Unseen) sees the secret work" or something like that as I remember.


M't.8:28
And when he was come to the other side into the country of the Gergesenes,
there met him two possessed with devils,
coming out of the tombs,
exceeding fierce,
so that no man might pass by that way.
M't.8:29
And, behold,
they cried out,
saying,
What have we to do with thee,
Jesus,
thou Son of God?
art thou come hither to torment us before the time?

This is what Abu abd Allah told me and he was truthful: the possessed called him "son of God" , but Jesus himself called himself " the son of man."


M't.22:36
Master,
which is the great commandment in the law?
M't.22:37
Jesus said unto him,
Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart,
and with all thy soul,
and with all thy mind.
M't.22:38
This is the first and great commandment.

This is the teachings of all the apostles of God, and the religion of God is in fact this First Commandment.


M't.3:17
And lo a voice from heaven,
saying,
This is my beloved Son,
in whom I am well pleased.
M't.17:5
While he yet spake,
behold,
a bright cloud overshadowed them:
and behold a voice out of the cloud,
which said,
This is my beloved Son,
in whom I am well pleased;
hear ye him.

I prove to you this is not true and fabricated.
It means God spoke to people and said: This Jesus is my beloved son. But God does not speak to people in general: He spoke to His servant Moses, but not to anyone else; this is in the World.


How about something like this and just concede the Bible is a Holy Book?

I admit the original Torah and the original Gospel are Holy Books.
And even if the present Torah ( the Old Testament) and the Gospel are distorted, but not all what they include is false.
So I believe in the Quran as do I believe in the original Torah revealed to Moses and the original Gospel revealed to Jesus.

God has a religion?

God believes in Himself.
God's religion is the religion He instructed people to follow, which is to worship none apart from Him.

The Ten Commandments In The Quran
 

MHz

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There will not be any resurrection from the grave; the man in fact is the spiritual soul not the material body, and there will be no need for the body after the soul leaves it.
The body will not be restored
At present when a man dies the breath of life returns to God. That is only 1/2 of what it takes to be a 'living soul'. Job (another book by Moses) is quite clear about resurrection from the literal grave in ch.14. God would never leave a creation that was meant to be alive in a place reserved for the dead. It is an escape-proof prison, when people leave that place it is through the front-door and they have their 'release papers all in good order'.

No one neither Jesus nor any angel or prophet or any creature can see God
(Sights perceive Him not, but He does perceive sights, and He is the Compassionate, the Well-Aware.)
Again Job would not agree with that statement, as far as Angels goes they are all of the 2nd birth and therefore they have looked on God's face, that is why their sins cannot be forgiven. Men will have that same 2nd birth when Re.21 manifests into reality, God and the Lamb are always there from that point on so nobody will ever fall into sin (and get sent to the lake)

This is what Abu abd Allah told me and he was truthful: the possessed called him "son of God" , but Jesus himself called himself " the son of man."
That was to signify that a fallen angel, who was created when their home was, knew Christ that far back, Jesus can refer to His earthly heritage through Mary, Eve's seed that is His human part. As a son of man He could go to the first death (the grace) but being the Son of God means He can never sin so He could never suffer the 2nd daeth.


This is the teachings of all the apostles of God, and the religion of God is in fact this First Commandment.
That is never argued against in any NT verse or passage.

I prove to you this is not true and fabricated.
It means God spoke to people and said: This Jesus is my beloved son. But God does not speak to people in general: He spoke to His servant Moses, but not to anyone else; this is in the World.
It means many people heard the same voice and the same words, God spoke to all OT Prophets, again Job is as good an example as you can get, it is not the only example.

I admit the original Torah and the original Gospel are Holy Books.
And even if the present Torah ( the Old Testament) and the Gospel are distorted, but not all what they include is false.
So I believe in the Quran as do I believe in the original Torah revealed to Moses and the original Gospel revealed to Jesus.
They aren't distorted, the meaning given to the words by men is where distortion enters the picture. By 'original' are you excluding the KJV1611 edition of the Bible.
 

eanassir

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At present when a man dies the breath of life returns to God. That is only 1/2 of what it takes to be a 'living soul'. Job (another book by Moses) is quite clear about resurrection from the literal grave in ch.14. God would never leave a creation that was meant to be alive in a place reserved for the dead. It is an escape-proof prison, when people leave that place it is through the front-door and they have their 'release papers all in good order'.

The spirit (or the ghost) as they call it in English, will return to God: i.e. will go to the afterlife world: the spirit world.
There will not be any resurrection of the body, because the soul or the ethereal man is the true man: it sees, hears and perceives the delights and the pain.
The resurrection has been done only to demonstrate a miracle:
>> like the man Azarius son of Oasis who died for 100 years then God recreated his body once again;
>> or like Jesus made a miracle: by supplicating God, God restored the spirit of some dead persons (died since a short period of time)
>>and like Elia or Elijah supplicated God to revive a dead son of a widow, and God answered him and revived that son who died since few hours or so.

Again Job would not agree with that statement, as far as Angels goes they are all of the 2nd birth and therefore they have looked on God's face, that is why their sins cannot be forgiven.

No one can see God whether that man is alive in this material world or is in his ethereal form in the afterlife: no one can see God; and if anyone could see God, then Moses could have seen him on the mountain: but God shew His glory to the mountain which was crushed down, Moses fainted out and the seventy men with him were stricken dead.

But it may mean by "God's face" they saw the ethereal world of the afterlife which belong to God. Which exactly means the side of God or His neighborhood in the kingdom of heavens: the Paradises.

That was to signify that a fallen angel, who was created when their home was, knew Christ that far back, Jesus can refer to His earthly heritage through Mary, Eve's seed that is His human part. As a son of man He could go to the first death (the grace) but being the Son of God means He can never sin so He could never suffer the 2nd daeth.

Jesus called himself "son of man" because he knew [from God] that they will call him son of God; in fact he called himself so frequently "son of man" seventy times or more in the Gospel,

but they neglected all such frequent mentioning of the "son of man" and clinged to the single word of the possessed when he shouted: "son of God"


It means many people heard the same voice and the same words, God spoke to all OT Prophets, again Job is as good an example as you can get, it is not the only example.

So it implies then that God spoke to such "many people" which is obviously fabricated (like the fabrications of some Muslims [or Jews] about the imams by telling such funny stories.

God will not speak to any man unless:
- only as a revelation,
- or from behind some barrier: like Moses : God spoke to him, and the tree was the barrier: it means not directly.
- or He sends an angel as an apostle to the prophet to tell him whatever He wants.

Because God is Most High and Most Proud, and will not sit with people or speak to them directly. Moses only heard His speaking, the others of his people could not hear.


They aren't distorted, the meaning given to the words by men is where distortion enters the picture. By 'original' are you excluding the KJV1611 edition of the Bible.

Yes, all that is distorted with varying degrees; in fact till now every new version will include some alterations to suit their ideas, ideology and programs.

If you keep to such distorted books they will mislead you away from God's religion and plain way, and will guide you to the enthusiasm, the associating Jesus with God Most Gracious.

But every wise man has to believe in the Quran the last word of God.
A Call from God to the People of the Bible
[: Jews and Christians]
 
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MHz

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The spirit (or the ghost) as they call it in English, will return to God: i.e. will go to the afterlife world: the spirit world.
It is more like an 'inhale' of the same part of His breath. That same breath went to all other flesh also

Ge.2:7
And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground,
and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life;
and man became a living soul.

Ge.1:24
And God said,
Let the earth bring forth the living creature after his kind,
cattle,
and creeping thing,
and beast of the earth after his kind:
and it was so.

Adam and Eve and all other living things were originally 'designed' to live for eternity if the tree was left alone. The ones they had dominion over were also eternal creatures as long as they has a 'shepherd'. When sin entered it not only caused the death of Adam and Eve it also caused everything else to die also.

Here is where the Bible can be used to 'enhance' our early history. Ge.3 has God giving a 'normal man' 120 years of life and the judgment. That judgment has to do with not eating the fruit. Most men die before 120 and those years in the grave asleep will have the Gospel preached to them so when the day of judgment comes they will have fallen into sin and died and heard the Gospel when that day of judgment comes. As soon as God introduced Law there was an 'appointed day' for examination of who followed the Law and who did not. That also means the place that is called the 'new earth' was also predetermined to exist after that judgment. Because God created man to be eternal that means everybody is related to Adam and Eve and to be in the Kingdom of God means nobody is missing as that would cause mourning over death (for life of the 1st birth, breath of life) This earth always had a finite time to exist, the one that exists after all judgments are finished is one where people are immortal once they reach 120 years old, until that age they are eternal in that they need food and if they were to sin (which they're won't) they would end up in the same place all fallen angels end up in.

The rest of this post could be just on this part and it would be as long as this whole post. Scripture being the bulk of the post, following the NT version.

There will not be any resurrection of the body, because the soul or the ethereal man is the true man: it sees, hears and perceives the delights and the pain.
This could also be a long one, what good does being immortal and being able to 'travel' if you don't have any 'hands'. Life is not an observer sport it is an interactive existence. Things gets 'restored' to the way it originally way in Eden.

Job.14:14
If a man die,
shall he live again?
all the days of my appointed time will I wait,
till my change come.
Job.14:15
Thou shalt call,
and I will answer thee:
thou wilt have a desire to the work of thine hands.

The resurrection has been done only to demonstrate a miracle:
>> like the man Azarius son of Oasis who died for 100 years then God recreated his body once again;
>> or like Jesus made a miracle: by supplicating God, God restored the spirit of some dead persons (died since a short period of time)
>>and like Elia or Elijah supplicated God to revive a dead son of a widow, and God answered him and revived that son who died since few hours or so.
It was done to show that the promises are for that literal exit from the grave.

Joh.11:23
Jesus saith unto her,
Thy brother shall rise again.
Joh.11:24
Martha saith unto him,
I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day.

No one can see God whether that man is alive in this material world or is in his ethereal form in the afterlife: no one can see God; and if anyone could see God, then Moses could have seen him on the mountain: but God shew His glory to the mountain which was crushed down, Moses fainted out and the seventy men with him were stricken dead.
Moses did see God, His back, not His face. If God has a back that Moses could see then (when the time is right) we will be able to look on His face. Since we are sinners we would die so Christ is there to purify us so we do not die when we meet God face to face. That is Judgment Day as in Re.20 and all of mankind is taken off the earth so it can be made 'old'. That has to happen before it can be made into a 'new earth'.

Isa.51:6
Lift up your eyes to the heavens,
and look upon the earth beneath:
for the heavens shall vanish away like smoke,
and the earth shall wax old like a garment,
and they that dwell therein shall die in like manner:
but my salvation shall be for ever,
and my righteousness shall not be abolished.

But it may mean by "God's face" they saw the ethereal world of the afterlife which belong to God. Which exactly means the side of God or His neighborhood in the kingdom of heavens: the Paradises.
When we die we are sound asleep, when we have any 'senses' working again it will be be all of them and it is like being woken up. If you are dead 10 minutes or 10,000 years it will seem like the same length. The NT would have the grave as being Lazarus being asleep and being held to Abraham's bosom.

Ec.9:10.
Whatsoever thy hand findeth to do,
do it with thy might;
for there is no work,
nor device,
nor knowledge,
nor wisdom,
in the grave,
whither thou goest.

The time everybody is judged is when Jesus comes back when the 7th trump sounds. Some will remain asleep in daeth, some will be resurrected back to life and some will be in the other part of the parable about the beggar Lazarus and the Rich Man. The Rich Man is also in the grave but in a place where he is not allowed to sleep.

Da.12:2
And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake,
some to everlasting life,
and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

Jesus called himself "son of man" because he knew [from God] that they will call him son of God; in fact he called himself so frequently "son of man" seventy times or more in the Gospel,
He bore all the marks of belonging to the 12 Chosen Tribes, circumcision and adherance to Law. As a son of man his blood could be spilled, coming as the Son of God he cannot be harmed and He does not come to heal, He comes for vengeance against Satan and his followers.
Two bruises requires He make two appearances. As the Messiah (Son of God) the 'day of the Lord' prophecies would be unfolding, those are still in our future.

but they neglected all such frequent mentioning of the "son of man" and clinged to the single word of the possessed when he shouted: "son of God"
To accomplish the bruise to Satan's head Jesus has to have the authority and strength that only the Son of God has, to take life away from God's creation and not suffer any consequences. Even the Holy Angels only gather the wicked for destruction, they do not actually kill anybody, that is a task set for Jesus alone.

Isa.53:10
Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise him;
he hath put him to grief:
when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin,
he shall see his seed,
he shall prolong his days,
and the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in his hand.

Isa.63:3
I have trodden the winepress alone;
and of the people there was none with me:
for I will tread them in mine anger,
and trample them in my fury;
and their blood shall be sprinkled upon my garments,
and I will stain all my raiment.

So it implies then that God spoke to such "many people" which is obviously fabricated (like the fabrications of some Muslims [or Jews] about the imams by telling such funny stories.
During the course of the Bible God did speak to many people, He also sent Angels to some, and some can be shown to it being Christ doing the speaking, like in Proverbs 8. Would you say that God was doing the narrative in Eze.37:1-10?

In the two instances in the NT why would God not announce it to the ones there. At the same time when Saul was 'spoken to' by Jesus only Saul heard the words. Do you see the difference in the two incidents? When the book is read in Re.10 the ones whose names are read out will be resurrected from the grave, literally, and they will be alive for the 1,000 years, the first part of mankind that lives in the Kingdom of God (while being here on this earth)

God will not speak to any man unless:
- only as a revelation,
- or from behind some barrier: like Moses : God spoke to him, and the tree was the barrier: it means not directly.
- or He sends an angel as an apostle to the prophet to tell him whatever He wants.
In our case we have a book with all the information He felt we needed, as well as fulfilling His own responsibility to us. The 7 seals are the prophecy we are given, the trumps describe how that prophecy unfolds.

Isa.42:9
Behold,
the former things are come to pass,
and new things do I declare:
before they spring forth I tell you of them.

Because God is Most High and Most Proud, and will not sit with people or speak to them directly. Moses only heard His speaking, the others of his people could not hear.
Moses reported that Job and God had a 'conversation' after Satan was finished tempting him. In the NT the Apostles were promised that when taken before the 'authorities' that Jesus would give them the word to speak when the moments arose. That is the same thing except it is the Messiah's voice that the Apostles would have heard. In the last events it is said some will hear and pay attention, will that be a booming voice or a 'thought' that many people have at the same time. I would go for the booming voice in the references below.

Re.11:12
And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them,
Come up hither.
And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud;
and their enemies beheld them.

Re.14:6
And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven,
having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth,
and to every nation,
and kindred,
and tongue,
and people,
Re.14:7
Saying with a loud voice,
Fear God,
and give glory to him;
for the hour of his judgment is come:
and worship him that made heaven,
and earth,
and the sea,
and the fountains of waters.
Re.14:8
And there followed another angel,
saying,
Babylon is fallen,
is fallen,
that great city,
because she made all nations drink of the wine of the wrath of her fornication.
Re.14:9
And the third angel followed them,
saying with a loud voice,
If any man worship the beast and his image,
and receive his mark in his forehead,
or in his hand,

Yes, all that is distorted with varying degrees; in fact till now every new version will include some alterations to suit their ideas, ideology and programs.
Distorted would mean the 'pieces' no longer fit together, which is the way God had it way back when it was being written. The Scriptures can be understood only if you have a few anchors, one is the dead will be brought back to life, the only question is "How many?" The answer is given.

If you keep to such distorted books they will mislead you away from God's religion and plain way, and will guide you to the enthusiasm, the associating Jesus with God Most Gracious.
If I am already aware of who they are and how they relate to each other then the danger I present is to you and not to myself. It puts the Bible as being the most detailed and accurate words from God that exist today.

But every wise man has to believe in the Quran the last word of God.
A Call from God to the People of the Bible
[: Jews and Christians]
Which book covers the coming events in the most detail? Assembling all the verses for the day of return would be about 1/2 the thickness of the whole NT, that's how much detail God left in the Bible.
 

eanassir

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You will not admit anything concerning the Quran and Mohammed, and you will keep to your ideas and belief.
If I say to you: it is obvious the Old Testament has a large number of distortion, additions and ommissions, and likewise the 4 Gospels have the same and more defects, you say: No they are not distorted.

If I tell you Jesus is only the son of man, you say: it is the voice in the cloud that said: This is My son.

When I say: No resurrection for bodies following death; you say: they will lie in the graves.

So you will keep to your words and insist on that.

As such the Christians of Najran wrangled with God's apostle Mohammed, then at last God ordered him to invite them to a context: to supplicate God's wrath on the party following the falsehood: because Mohammed followed the devotion to God alone, and those Christians followed the enthusiasm about Jesus.
See my thread in this CC forum:
The Challenge in prayers.
Part 2- Prophet Mohammed and the Christians of Najran


As such was Mohammed commanded, but I am not commanded to do that. Anyhow, the evidence is established against you and you are warned of God's punishment in case you do not believe in the Quran and the apostle to whom it was revealed: Prophet Mohammed - salam be to him.
 

MHz

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You will not admit anything concerning the Quran and Mohammed, and you will keep to your ideas and belief.
Other than what you post I'm not sure what the Quran promotes, especially as far as end-time prophecy is concerned. My ideas and beliefs have specific passages that are the original words on 'the subject'. The meanings are more in line with what the Gentiles would have been taught about God. The NT made certain changes to the way the 12 Tribes lived after the cross, one being much more food was made clean, by Christ. God also determined what food would be for Adam and Eve. Not every member of the 12 Tribes embraced the change in what is clean food. So while they may have the first Law as being upheld how true are they to God if the 'updates' are not included.

If I say to you: it is obvious the Old Testament has a large number of distortion, additions and ommissions, and likewise the 4 Gospels have the same and more defects, you say: No they are not distorted.
When men start determining what God got right and what He got 'wrong' or allowed men to change they gave themselves permissions that God never included. Number one being, He put it down in an understandable version, the NT comes with a vision and a built in explanation, taking it further is overworking the truth it contains. God put His words down as a bunch of little truths, like the verse He gave to Jesus to pass on to us. The answer is fully given in the next few verses.

1Co.15:12
Now if Christ be preached that he rose from the dead,
how say some among you that there is no resurrection of the dead?

If I tell you Jesus is only the son of man, you say: it is the voice in the cloud that said: This is My son.
Which voice would carry more weight with you? Do both need to verified to see that it follows the 'theme' the Bible promotes.

When I say: No resurrection for bodies following death; you say: they will lie in the graves.
Until they are retrieved from there. In the verse below where is the 'land of the enemy'?

Jer.31:15:
Thus saith the LORD;
A voice was heard in Ramah,
lamentation,
and bitter weeping;
Rahel weeping for her children refused to be comforted for her children,
because they were not.
Jer.31:16:
Thus saith the LORD;
Refrain thy voice from weeping,
and thine eyes from tears:
for thy work shall be rewarded,
saith the LORD;
and they shall come again from the land of the enemy.
Jer.31:17
And there is hope in thine end,
saith the LORD,
that thy children shall come again to their own border.

So you will keep to your words and insist on that.
I can do that by showing the meanings of all those prophecies, I don't have to slam any other writings to do it either. That doesn't make it any easier to accept. Do Muslims exhibit the same characters of faith as described in the 7 letters? The important part of that question is concerning the ones who did not overcome their 'faults'. With the Bible they are still given salvation, the path is not as 'smooth' as it could be. The Torah doesn't promote that and if the Quran doesn't, then something is not being understood properly.

God does not eternally 'punish' somebody if they do cannot follow the rules when the path to perfect obiedence has been blocked for every person but one, Jesus. God has every man, woman, child as being made clean, that means life as we experience it today but in a world that has sin and death removed forever. That is a good deal for today's believers and non believers.
As such the Christians of Najran wrangled with God's apostle Mohammed, then at last God ordered him to invite them to a context: to supplicate God's wrath on the party following the falsehood: because Mohammed followed the devotion to God alone, and those Christians followed the enthusiasm about Jesus.
That is because true faith shows it colors in public.

Jas.2:14
What doth it profit,
my brethren,
though a man say he hath faith,
and have not works?
can faith save him?
Jas.2:15
If a brother or sister be naked,
and destitute of daily food,
Jas.2:16
And one of you say unto them,
Depart in peace,
be ye warmed and filled;
notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body;
what doth it profit?
Jas.2:17
Even so faith,
if it hath not works,
is dead,
being alone.

M't.25:31
When the Son of man shall come in his glory,
and all the holy angels with him,
then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:
M't.25:32
And before him shall be gathered all nations:
and he shall separate them one from another,
as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:

Ignoring the 2nd Law bring about a punishment that is as severe as ignoring the first Law.

See my thread in this CC forum:
The Challenge in prayers.
Part 2- Prophet Mohammed and the Christians of Najran


As such was Mohammed commanded, but I am not commanded to do that. Anyhow, the evidence is established against you and you are warned of God's punishment in case you do not believe in the Quran and the apostle to whom it was revealed: Prophet Mohammed - salam be to him.
That is where the Bible is different, true it can bring 'hard times in hell itself' but the Bible confirms that chastisement does have a peaceful conclusion for all men. Does the Quran (or Torah) show that truth. If it doesn't how can they be considered to hold more authority when they do not have the correct ending?
 

eanassir

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Your language and expression is difficult and ambiguous. Many times I cannot understand what you mean.

You said about the 12 tribes, and what about other God's servants: all people and humanity are they disregarded and only the 12 tribes are created and favored by God Most Gracious. So the 12 tribes will go to Paradise and the rest of the Worlds and nations will go to Hell?

And what are such 7 letters, you speak about?

Example of people deluded and misguided:

Now I read an excellent book about a legend: the twelfth imam who disappeared from sight and claimed to be the "Awaited Mahdi"

The author of the book proved it is a fabricated story: because of personal advantage cause: those who invented it, actually they did so in order to gain some personal advantages: gaining money and position.

So the succession of generations gave such fabricated story a shape of truthfulness: people started to believe it firmly, in addition to scholars and in addition to many other charlatans who wanted to gain some material gain, but will lose in the afterlife.

MHz, the same is the story of Jesus as the son of God and the shout in the cloud, and all other fabricated tellings and verses in the NT arranged to serve this, and the succession of generations made it dogmatic for many people, for you and for scholars; so how will they discover the truth: only if they resort to the Quran; so go and read the translated meaning of the Quran and study its revelations :) ayat).
quran-ayat.co



If we resort to the Quran, we will refute that fabricated story of the disappearing invisible imam whom they await uselessly, as shall we discover the truth about Jesus - salam be to him:
  • A son of man, not any son of God.
  • An honored prophet and apostle sent by God, like many apostles that passed away before him.
  • He was saved of the wickedness of his enemy and was not crucified: Barabbas was crucified instead.
  • Jesus then died, his body was buried, and his spirit (like the spirits of all prophets and righteous men) went to heaven to be in the neigbourhood of God Most Gracios.
  • No enthusiasm should be said and believed about Jesus: God created him without father as had He created Adam without father or mother.
  • Jesus was given his miracles from God Most Gracious (like many other prophets.)
  • Jesus will not be seen anymore after his death, but will come in his spirit to instruct the Mahdi and acquaint him about the true interpretation of the Quran to be a lightness and mercy for all humanity.
  • Jesus (and all other prophets) cannot save with the mediation or the intercession but only according to God's permission:
The intercession means: to plead God [on Judgment Day] to forgive the sinner (in case the sinner is not an idolater, associater or atheist)


=============================================================

The meaning of the intercession and mediation:

They mean: if one wants to get some job for example, he took some person dear and respected by the general manager of that company where he wants to have his jobe. So that this vip will plead with the general manager to let that man get that job.
People are convinced that if they don't take such vip (or mediater or intercessor) then the man will not have that job.

Therefore, they say: the imam, the priest and the sage are our intercessors with God: such Jesus, Ali and Bin Yohaya will intercede for our behlf to let God forgive us on Judgment Day; because we are sinners while those intercessors are favored by God, and their word will be taken in consideration by God.

This in fact is the plea of the associater everywhere to The patron saint:
"Certain Catholic saints are associated with certain life situations.
These patron saints intercede to God for us.
We can take our special needs to them and know they will listen to our prayers, and pray to God with us."
http://www.americancatholic.org/Features/Saints/patrons.asp

===============================================================

But such intercession will not be for everyone: it will not be given for atheists, idolaters and associaters. And in fact such intercession as a whole is up to God alone: He permits whom He please to intercede for the behalf of whom He wants to save by such intercession.

This is in the Quran 2: 255

مَن ذَا الَّذِي يَشْفَعُ عِنْدَهُ إِلاَّ بِإِذْنِهِ

The explanation:

(Who is he that intercedes with Him [on the Judgment Day] save by His leave [on behalf of monotheists only]?)

God – be glorified – said also in the Quran 39: 44

قُل لِّلَّهِ الشَّفَاعَةُ جَمِيعًا لَّهُ مُلْكُ السَّمَاوَاتِ وَالْأَرْضِ

The explanation:

(Say: "To God belongs exclusively the [right to permit] intercession: To Him belongs the kingdom of the heavens and the earth.)


 
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MHz

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Your language and expression is difficult and ambiguous. Many times I cannot understand what you mean.
Some of that might be that I'm not giving you complete answer, as far as posting all the relevant verses. Nothing wrong with shortening up the info each post deals with. Like this one.

You said about the 12 tribes, and what about other God's servants: all people and humanity are they disregarded and only the 12 tribes are created and favored by God Most Gracious. So the 12 tribes will go to Paradise and the rest of the Worlds and nations will go to Hell?
Here is an example where my answer doesn't reflect what your 'summation' suggests. To keep it short no references. When God gave Adam the Law in the Garden there was also a date (that He did not reveal) set where judgment would come. In this case the judgment would be that everyone born into sin has died for that sin. That clears the books so at judgment you have the sin and you have payment for sin.
Reward from God means being made alive (for most people) for the 1,000 years. As you mention it it sees the whole House of Israel being resurrected to life, along with the would be Gentile believers going back to the time of the cross. A few more can be included but lets say these two groups represent the 12 Tribes and the Church.
The 12 Tribes will live in Israel and the Church (remnant of the Gentiles) will occupy the rest of the world.
This stays that same way with just those same people for a full 1,000 years, then Satan and all fallen Angels are released from the Pit (the grave basically and the men in death of hell remain there, their punishment is not over until Satan is in the lake)
The ones who have been alive for the 1,000 years and the ones not living are taken to the Great White Throne where the ones alive for the 1,000 years are greeted as Priests and Kings (their role in the New Earth) The ones that make up the total number of mankind are then made alive and stand before God. If they had any sin left in them they would not remain alive. As bad as they were on earth (the very worst are those that woulds gather as an army in the Promised Land) yet they are also given a drink of living water because they have fully paid for their sins by being in hell. The references and my explanation would take a few pages to explain but at least you will know what I believe and why.

And what are such 7 letters, you speak about?
Lets start here, the Bible uses one verse in Re.1 to define a group just before the 7 letters are given. I'm saying the verse seems to include everybody alive at the time, that means everybody has a relationship with God that will affect where they spend the 1,000 years. Atheist, Muslim and Christian would be included and rather that what Church that we have established out in the communities defining how we are saved God uses the 7 letters to define what He will be judging people on. Christians have false Christians as the ones who need to 'overcome', if they haven't they will not be alive for the 1,000 years. That can be applied to you also, in those (14 groups) you will find a description that would fit you quite closely. That is your Church, no matter where you go to worship God on earth. Devotion to God would mean you have not left your first love as that is a reference to the 1st Law of the 2 that Jesus left us. Everyone alive since the cross will be in one of those 7 Churches. The ones who did not overcome are made alive 1,000 years later, for the most part the only difference is where you live. If you are a part of mankind that was alive during the 1,000 year reign then your 'home' in the New Earth will be inside New Jerusalem (2,250,000 sq. mi.) or your 'home' will be in the New Earth outside the walls of that same city. A ones inside the city will have a 1,000 years with Christ as an 'advantage' over those outside the city, that is why they are the Priests rather than the Flock.
 

eanassir

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All this is a complex thinking which is not true at all: what lake and what flock and cross ...etc? How could you convince yourself with such imaginary myths: truly these are the myths.

And all this is because of the distorted books. You refer to such evidently distorted books and take that as indicating the true belief and the true explanation of things when in fact all this is a fabrication, which is not in the original religion of God: of Abraham who was before the Torah and the Gospel.

This is nearer to the idolatry rather than the religion of God as recognized by Abrahm and all the prophets of God.. Noah, Abraham, Ismael, Isaac, Jacob, Joseph, Moses, Elia, Isaiah, Ezechiel and all the rest of God's prophets.

How could some men fabricate all this and introduce it into the holy Gospel !?

Refer to the Gloriouus Quran to purify all this and return it pure as was the original God's religion clear of all such fabrications and myths.

quran-ayat.co
 

MHz

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All this is a complex thinking which is not true at all: what lake and what flock and cross ...etc? How could you convince yourself with such imaginary myths: truly these are the myths.
If you choose some other version, that's fine. So far I find your arguments less than convincing that the Bible is an untrue document.

If you think it is a myth that God saves all of mankind, and more then perhaps you just aren't ready to link the verse below into it's proper perspective.

Ho.2:18
And in that day will I make a covenant for them with the beasts of the field,
and with the fowls of heaven,
and with the creeping things of the ground:
and I will break the bow and the sword and the battle out of the earth,
and will make them to lie down safely.
 

eanassir

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Not all the Bible is distorted; some of it, but this is mixed.

The World peace will be at the time of the Paraclete:) the comforter) or the Awaited Mahdi:

It is mentioned in the Book of Isaiah 2: 2-4
“2-And in the last days the mountain of the house of the Lord shall be prepared on the top of the mountains, and it shall be exalted above the hills: and all nations shall flow unto it.

3-And many people shall go, and say: Come, and let us go up to the mountain of the Lord and the house of the God of Jacob: and he shall teach us his ways, and we will walk in his paths.

4-And he [Elia of the Last Days, the Paraclete or the Awaited Mahdi] shall judge the Gentiles and rebuke many people: and they shall turn their swords into ploughshares their spears into sickles. Nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they be exercised any more to war.

In The Last Days
=================================================

The Quran tells about the original Torah and Gospel

In the Quran 24: 34
وَلَقَدْ أَنزَلْنَا إِلَيْكُمْ آيَاتٍ مُّبَيِّنَاتٍ وَمَثَلًا مِّنَ الَّذِينَ خَلَوْا مِن قَبْلِكُمْ وَمَوْعِظَةً لِّلْمُتَّقِينَ

The explanation:
(And We have sent down for you revelations: detailing [statements], and the example of those who passed away before you and an admonition to those who ward off [abominations.])

And this aya 4: 26 explains this:
يُرِيدُ اللّهُ لِيُبَيِّنَ لَكُمْ وَيَهْدِيَكُمْ سُنَنَ الَّذِينَ مِن قَبْلِكُمْ وَيَتُوبَ عَلَيْكُمْ وَاللّهُ عَلِيمٌ حَكِيمٌ

The explanation:
(God likes to explain to you, andto acquaint you about the rites of those before you, and to turn towards you;God is All-Knowing, Most Wise.)
 
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MHz

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Not all the Bible is distorted; some of it, but this is mixed.

The World peace will be at the time of the Paraclete:) the comforter) or the Awaited Mahdi:

It is mentioned in the Book of Isaiah 2: 2-4
“2-And in the last days the mountain of the house of the Lord shall be prepared on the top of the mountains, and it shall be exalted above the hills: and all nations shall flow unto it.

3-And many people shall go, and say: Come, and let us go up to the mountain of the Lord and the house of the God of Jacob: and he shall teach us his ways, and we will walk in his paths.

4-And he [Elia of the Last Days, the Paraclete or the Awaited Mahdi] shall judge the Gentiles and rebuke many people: and they shall turn their swords into ploughshares their spears into sickles. Nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they be exercised any more to war.
World peace comes because all sinners in the Nations die on that day. The Matt.25 sheep/goat separation results in just the sheep being left alive. This is the beginning of the 1,000 year reign. The last few verses of Zec.13 give the ratio and all of Zec.13 explains how the world will operate for the first group that is gathered. Their life will be a model for when the 'new earth' exists after the Great White Throne event. That's two references, the 3rd is the one below, the 'remnant of the whole of the Nations' will be part of the 'servants', the whole house of Israel is also part of the 'servants'. The ones 'numbered to the sword' are the sinners that die on the day Christ returns. You need a few other references to show that the ones under punishment have finished paying for their sins before the 'new earth' exists. In Isa.65 all verses after mention of the 'new earth' are for those who were killed by the sword. That is how God works it so everybody ever born has a spot in the eternal new earth. If all things are to be 'forgotten by God' then if it was for the servants God would be forgetting all their celebrating, instead it is forgiveness for the ones He had Christ kill on the day of His return.

Isa.65:12
Therefore will I number you to the sword,
and ye shall all bow down to the slaughter:
because when I called,
ye did not answer;
when I spake,
ye did not hear;
but did evil before mine eyes,

and did choose that wherein I delighted not.
Isa.65:13
Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD,
Behold,
my servants shall eat,
but ye shall be hungry:
behold,
my servants shall drink,
but ye shall be thirsty:
behold,
my servants shall rejoice,
but ye shall be ashamed:
Isa.65:14
Behold,
my servants shall sing for joy of heart,
but ye shall cry for sorrow of heart,
and shall howl for vexation of spirit.

Isa.65:15
And ye shall leave your name for a curse unto my chosen:
for the Lord GOD shall slay thee,
and call his servants by another name:
Isa.65:16
That he who blesseth himself in the earth shall bless himself in the God of truth;
and he that sweareth in the earth shall swear by the God of truth;
because the former troubles are forgotten,
and because they are hid from mine eyes.
Isa.65:17
For,
behold,
I create new heavens and a new earth:
and the former shall not be remembered,
nor come into mind
.

The feast of the Tabernacle in Zec.14 will have 1,000 feasts and then Satan and all fallen angels get released for the event below and then this earth and the heaven will be destroyed (made clean waiting for New Jerusalem to descend from God in Heaven after the Great White Throne judgment.

Re.20:6
Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection:
on such the second death hath no power,
but they shall be priests of God and of Christ,
and shall reign with him a thousand years.
Re.20:7
And when the thousand years are expired,
Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
Re.20:8
And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth,
Gog and Magog,
to gather them together to battle:
the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.
Re.20:9
And they went up on the breadth of the earth,
and compassed the camp of the saints about,
and the beloved city:
and fire came down from God out of heaven,
and devoured them.
Re.20:10
And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone,
where the beast and the false prophet are,
and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.
Re.20:11
And I saw a great white throne,
and him that sat on it,
from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away;
and there was found no place for them.

If any part of the Bible was in error these sorts of connections could not be made and still be accurate. Do you know how many Christians would be classified as a goat if the above was a skill testing question, most if not damn near all.
 

eanassir

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Belief in God is the basal belief

MHz, you [and I] believe in God and your [and my] belief in God is the primary basis. I believe in God as One Eternal: the Creator: none equal or similar to Him in anyway.
All the other beliefs come second to this primary belief.

If anyone does not believe in this, then every other belief is in vain and useless.

If not for the book you read and think it is Jesus word, then you cannot believe in anything as : son of God or part of three together with Him from the start; because nothing of this is told in the Torah of Moses and in the Books of the prophets (in addition nothing of this is also in the Quran.)

On the other hand, I do believe like you do in the words of Moses and Jesus (originally these are God's words inspired to these two noble prophets); as do I believe too in the Glorious Quran revealed by God to Prophet Mohammed via the angel Gabriel.

Likewise, I believe in the noble prophets and apostles of God (Moses, Jesus, Mohammed and the Mahdi] whom He sent to guide people from the darkness of the ignorance and idolatry --> to the light of guidance and exclusive devotion to God alone.

When God sent Jesus --- then anyone who does not believe in Jesus will lose in the afterlife; because he does not believe in Jesus the messenger of God, and by so doing he disobeys God Himself Who sent Jesus.

So Jews before the coming of Jesus will be ok in the afterlife if they work righteous work and believe in God alone.
But after Jesus, their good work will not avail Jews because they do not believe in Jesus the apostle of God.

Then when Mohammed came with his exclusive devotion to God alone, and he broke up all the idols and conveyed the Quran --> then Jews and Christians have to believe in this new apostle of God in case it is right they believe in God truly.

So any Jews, Christians and others who do not believe in Mohammed --> will lose in the afterlife whatever good work they do and whatever they claim they are good and righteous; because by denying the messenger of God, they have disobeyed God Himself (exactly like those who denied Moses and Jesus and the other prophets in their time.)

The Mahdi will come and confirm, believe and give witness to all these prophets and defend them and give the correct interpretation of the Quran, so that they will not say: we do not understand the meaning of the Quran revelations.

(And whoso seeks as religion, other than the Islam, it will not be accepted from him [because the past religions were altered],
and he shall, inthe afterlife, be of those who lose [the prosperity of Paradise.])

The above between brackets is the explanation of the Quran 3: 85
وَمَن يَبْتَغِ غَيْرَ الإِسْلاَمِ دِينًا فَلَن يُقْبَلَ مِنْهُ وَهُوَ فِي الآخِرَةِ مِنَ الْخَاسِرِينَ

A Call from God to the People of the Bible [: Jews and Christians]


World peace comes because all sinners in the Nations die on that day.

There are many traditions that some wars will take place in the future whereby the nations of disbelievers will be exterminated."
I asked Abu abd-Allah about that and he said: there may not be something like that or he hopes nothing of this may occur.

On the other hand, God threatens the disbelievers by the Mahdi: which implies: I shall send the Mahdi on you, and take revenge of every disbeliever.

As in the Quran 75: 1-2


لَاأُقْسِمُ بِيَوْمِ الْقِيَامَةِ

وَلَا أُقْسِمُ بِالنَّفْسِ اللَّوَّامَةِ

The explanation:
(No, but I [: God] swear by the Doomsday!
And no, but I [: God] swear by the 'censuring soul' [: the Paraclite!])

God here swore by the Doomsday and swore by the Mahdi [a swore of threatening: He threatens the disbelievers by Doomsday and by the Mahdi whom He will send before Doomsday; but because Doomsday is greater than the Mahdi, so He first mentioned the Doomsday then He mentioned the Mahdi.

While for Jesus, he told people that the world will not see him anymore, but will come like the lightning to inspire the Mahdi and send him and task him with explaining the Quran and the Bible to people: so the Mahdi is the spirit of truth that will reprove the world of sin, and ofrighteousness, and of judgment.



Isa.65:12
Therefore will I number you to the sword,
and ye shall all bow down to the slaughter:
because when I called,
ye did not answer;
when I spake,
ye did not hear;
but did evil before mine eyes,
and did choose that wherein I delighted not.
Isa.65:13
Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD,
Behold,
my servants shall eat,
but ye shall be hungry:
behold,
my servants shall drink,
but ye shall be thirsty:
behold,
my servants shall rejoice,
but ye shall be ashamed:
Isa.65:14
Behold,
my servants shall sing for joy of heart,
but ye shall cry for sorrow of heart,
and shall howl for vexation of spirit.
Isa.65:15
And ye shall leave your name for a curse unto my chosen:
for the Lord GOD shall slay thee,
and call his servants by another name:
Isa.65:16
That he who blesseth himself in the earth shall bless himself in the God of truth;
and he that sweareth in the earth shall swear by the God of truth;
because the former troubles are forgotten,
and because they are hid from mine eyes.
Isa.65:17
For,
behold,
I create new heavens and a new earth:
and the former shall not be remembered,
nor come into mind.

Such things will be for believers and for disbelievers in the afterlife: the home of the punishment, recompense and reward.
"following your death, you will feel thirsty...
In addition to that, you will feel hungry,"
The soul after death

If any part of the Bible was in error these sorts of connections could not be made and still be accurate. Do you know how many Christians would be classified as a goat if the above was a skill testing question, most if not damn near all.

Nothing of that; the true is true and the false is false; the authenticated about 100% true: I can tell you the ten words of God: The Ten Commandments. Other parts include true and false --> and this led to the misguidance and their wrong conceptions.

Some Books, Of The Hebrew Bible, Are Lost
 
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MHz

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MHz, you [and I] believe in God and your [and my] belief in God is the primary basis. I believe in God as One Eternal: the Creator: none equal or similar to Him in anyway.
All the other beliefs come second to this primary belief.
One true God who has His own thoughts and voice, one true Holy Spirit that has her own thoughts and voice, one true Son who has His own thoughts and voice. In the new earth these 3 will be in New Jerusalem, God and the Lamb will be the voice that gives direvtion to the Spirit. The Spirit's physical form at that time will be be as in the verse below.

Re.4:5
And out of the throne proceeded lightnings and thunderings and voices:
and there were seven lamps of fire burning before the throne,
which are the seven Spirits of God.

Re.22:1
And he shewed me a pure river of water of life,
clear as crystal,
proceeding out of the throne of God and of the Lamb.
Re.22:2
In the midst of the street of it,
and on either side of the river,
was there the tree of life,
which bare twelve manner of fruits,
and yielded her fruit every month:
and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations.
Re.22:3
And there shall be no more curse:
but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it;
and his servants shall serve him:
Re.22:4:
And they shall see his face;
and his name shall be in their foreheads.

If anyone does not believe in this, then every other belief is in vain and useless.
2/3 of the people alive will not be believers in God to the extent they will have repented their sins. I'm not sure we should expect that ratio to be less than that at any given time before that specific day. If Angels preach the Gospel during the last 3 1/2 years then there will be no errors in the teachings, even with that 2/3 have fallen for Satan's deception.

The fate of that 2/3 is determined for the next 1,000 years. In that time the living will see Israel returned to something similar to the Garden so that when Satan is released for execution of punishment the land is called 'glorious' and the people there are Holy and the 'remnant of the Nations just happen (not) to be there for the 1,000th feast of the Tabernacles. That is when mankind first 'sees' the face of God. Before that the earth had Christ with them as described on the mountain and as in Re.1. He spends that 1,000 years making the 'saved' into perfect beings and it is training to take the role of Saints in the New Earth. The living will inhabit New Jerusalem, the mirror of that is Israel during the 1,000 years. The Gentiles that come for that feast will also be part of the ones who live inside New Jerusalem. The mirror that will be represented by the 'remnant of the Nations' during the 1,000 years will be the rest of mankind that was not alive for the 1,000 years, they will inhabit the place outside the walls of New Jerusalem.

If not for the book you read and think it is Jesus word, then you cannot believe in anything as : son of God or part of three together with Him from the start; because nothing of this is told in the Torah of Moses and in the Books of the prophets (in addition nothing of this is also in the Quran.)
It helps me identify that Jesus is putting in two appearances, one for each bruise in Ge.3:15. That is why God wrote it that way. Son of man in Eze.37 is what Jesus will do when Re.10 unfolds for believers, the reading of the list of individuals that will be alive for the 1,000 literal years that follow the afternoon in which all sinners are sent to the grave.

On the other hand, I do believe like you do in the words of Moses and Jesus (originally these are God's words inspired to these two noble prophets); as do I believe too in the Glorious Quran revealed by God to Prophet Mohammed via the angel Gabriel.
Compare that to Christ's witness of creation in Proverbs 8, who has a better understanding of what has gone on in our past and who should be paid attention to in the future?

Likewise, I believe in the noble prophets and apostles of God (Moses, Jesus, Mohammed and the Mahdi] whom He sent to guide people from the darkness of the ignorance and idolatry --> to the light of guidance and exclusive devotion to God alone.

When God sent Jesus --- then anyone who does not believe in Jesus will lose in the afterlife; because he does not believe in Jesus the messenger of God, and by so doing he disobeys God Himself Who sent Jesus.
Not quite, it determines if you will be alive for the 1,000 years that follows the death of all sinners. To be in the grave (death and hell both) is actually better than being alive when that 1,000 years is over if Satan and the fallen angels could tempt you. If that happened you would be sent to the lake for eternity, as it is they stay where they are until Satan is in the lake and then they are released, right on schedule and they are without sin so they can remain alive. The OT doesn't show a 'gap' so it stands out as well as it does in the NT, that is by God's design rather than it being an error.

So Jews before the coming of Jesus will be ok in the afterlife if they work righteous work and believe in God alone.
But after Jesus, their good work will not avail Jews because they do not believe in Jesus the apostle of God.
They are asleep, just like everybody else that every lived, and the moment the last sinner is in the grave they will be resurrected to eternal life, the first 1,000 years is 'getting acquainted' with how the Kingdom of God works. First order of business, clean the place up.

Then when Mohammed came with his exclusive devotion to God alone, and he broke up all the idols and conveyed the Quran --> then Jews and Christians have to believe in this new apostle of God in case it is right they believe in God truly.
It meshes with the 1st Law, I'm not sure how well it promotes the terms of the 2nd Law.

M't.5:43-48
Ye have heard that it hath been said,
Thou shalt love thy neighbour,
and hate thine enemy.
But I say unto you,
Love your enemies,
bless them that curse you,
do good to them that hate you,
and pray for them which despitefully use you,
and persecute you;
That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven:
for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good,
and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust.
For if ye love them which love you,
what reward have ye?
do not even the publicans the same?
And if ye salute your brethren only,
what do ye more than others?
do not even the publicans so?
Be ye therefore perfect,
even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

So any Jews, Christians and others who do not believe in Mohammed --> will lose in the afterlife whatever good work they do and whatever they claim they are good and righteous; because by denying the messenger of God, they have disobeyed God Himself (exactly like those who denied Moses and Jesus and the other prophets in their time.)
The NT wouldn't agree with that, if the Bible is not enough to create belief then that person will be shown something 'physical' to show that Jesus is as real as the NT says. That is before the final judgment call, Hebrews 12 is a description of when the last of mankind become a believer.

The Mahdi will come and confirm, believe and give witness to all these prophets and defend them and give the correct interpretation of the Quran, so that they will not say: we do not understand the meaning of the Quran revelations.

(And whoso seeks as religion, other than the Islam, it will not be accepted from him [because the past religions were altered],
and he shall, inthe afterlife, be of those who lose [the prosperity of Paradise.])

The above between brackets is the explanation of the Quran 3: 85
وَمَن يَبْتَغِ غَيْرَ الإِسْلاَمِ دِينًا فَلَن يُقْبَلَ مِنْهُ وَهُوَ فِي الآخِرَةِ مِنَ الْخَاسِرِينَ

A Call from God to the People of the Bible [: Jews and Christians]
For the people the 7 letters include thew period would be 3 1/2 years, in that time Satan is at his strongest, the details (if you can figure it out) is most of Da.12

There are many traditions that some wars will take place in the future whereby the nations of disbelievers will be exterminated."
I asked Abu abd-Allah about that and he said: there may not be something like that or he hopes nothing of this may occur.
The reason there will be such an event was determined by the time Jeremiah 25 was written. Evey Nation on Earth has to be included, if they weren't they would not come under judgment, without judgment there is no salvation. Coming in '2nd' does have it's consequences but they aren't eternally fatal.

Heb.12:5-14
And ye have forgotten the exhortation which speaketh unto you as unto children,
My son,
despise not thou the chastening of the Lord,
nor faint when thou art rebuked of him:
For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth,
and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth.
If ye endure chastening,
God dealeth with you as with sons;
for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not?
But if ye be without chastisement,
whereof all are partakers,
then are ye bastards,
and not sons.
Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us,
and we gave them reverence:
shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits,
and live?
For they verily for a few days chastened us after their own pleasure;
but he for our profit,
that we might be partakers of his holiness.
Now no chastening for the present seemeth to be joyous,
but grievous:
nevertheless afterward it yieldeth the peaceable fruit of righteousness unto them which are exercised thereby.
Wherefore lift up the hands which hang down,
and the feeble knees;
And make straight paths for your feet,
lest that which is lame be turned out of the way;
but let it rather be healed.
Follow peace with all men,
and holiness,
without which no man shall see the Lord:

On the other hand, God threatens the disbelievers by the Mahdi: which implies: I shall send the Mahdi on you, and take revenge of every disbeliever.

As in the Quran 75: 1-2


لَاأُقْسِمُ بِيَوْمِ الْقِيَامَةِ

وَلَا أُقْسِمُ بِالنَّفْسِ اللَّوَّامَةِ

The explanation:
(No, but I [: God] swear by the Doomsday!
And no, but I [: God] swear by the 'censuring soul' [: the Paraclite!])
Re.16 is the chapter with the 7 vials, it is the 3rd woe and it begins when Christ returns, it is how the sinners are sent to the grave. The time to complete that task is from when the two witnesses are resurrected until what would be evening of that very same day, There are more references than these two.

Re.18:8
Therefore shall her plagues come in one day,
death,
and mourning,
and famine;
and she shall be utterly burned with fire:
for strong is the Lord God who judgeth her.

Zec.14:7
But it shall be one day which shall be known to the LORD,
not day,
nor night:
but it shall come to pass,
that at evening time it shall be light.

God here swore by the Doomsday and swore by the Mahdi [a swore of threatening: He threatens the disbelievers by Doomsday and by the Mahdi whom He will send before Doomsday; but because Doomsday is greater than the Mahdi, so He first mentioned the Doomsday then He mentioned the Mahdi.
This is a flood of fire, similar to the flood of water, many died and a few 'witnesses to the 'power of God' survived. The first day back is the only day of doom for mankind, it is very violent and it is very short in duration. The last sinner to die is the last sinner that the 'living' will ever 'see'. Mankind is holy from that moment on.

While for Jesus, he told people that the world will not see him anymore, but will come like the lightning to inspire the Mahdi and send him and task him with explaining the Quran and the Bible to people: so the Mahdi is the spirit of truth that will reprove the world of sin, and ofrighteousness, and of judgment.
The ones told that in Matthew 23 were disbelieving Temple staff, they become believers when Jesus resurrects them from the grave, The time is Re.10 and the description of how that happens is in Eze.37. The Church will also have members resurrected on that same day.

Such things will be for believers and for disbelievers in the afterlife: the home of the punishment, recompense and reward.
"following your death, you will feel thirsty...
In addition to that, you will feel hungry,"
The soul after death
That is for the time between sin being removed from an immortal people. The 'after-life' only begins when the 'punishments' for mankind are over. Being a blind Jews does not keep resurrection away, being part of the deceived by Satan does not remove a person from salvation, it just delays when that person experiences it. God calls 1,000 years as being equal to one day for Him.

Nothing of that; the true is true and the false is false; the authenticated about 100% true: I can tell you the ten words of God: The Ten Commandments. Other parts include true and false --> and this led to the misguidance and their wrong conceptions.

Some Books, Of The Hebrew Bible, Are Lost
Those conditions are a two way street, what God's expects from us will be returned. Mankind was created as one body that is related to every member, salvation (being alive in the new earth is an all of mankind or nothing of mankind deal)
 
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eanassir

Time Out
Jul 26, 2007
3,099
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Your only evidence is the altered Gospel

I said your only evidence that Jesus is the son of God is some of what you read in the present Gospels, and you disregard that he is more frequently menitoned as the son of man.

I quit myself from your claims. And I admit: No god but God alone without son, daughter or parents.

( [O Mohammed] say [to the idolaters]: “Do you, then, disbelieve in [God] Who created the earth in two days, and do you ascribe to Him opponents [equals or rivals or peers]? –That is the Lord of [all] the worlds [or Lord of all nations!”)

which is the explanation of the aya 41: 9
قُلْ أَئِنَّكُمْ لَتَكْفُرُونَ بِالَّذِي خَلَقَ الْأَرْضَ فِي يَوْمَيْنِ وَتَجْعَلُونَ لَهُ أَندَادًا ذَلِكَ رَبُّ الْعَالَمِينَ

Second: In case that truly God had had any son, then you [Mohammed] should have been the first one to worship that son; but this is impossible, and it is the word of the heathen or idolaters.

(Say [O Mohammed, to them]: "If the Most Gracious had a son [or daughter], then I would be the first to serve [that son or daughter.]"

Glory be to the Lord of the heavens and the earth, the Lord of the Throne, above [the son or daughters] that they ascribe [to Him.])

The above is the explanation of the ayat 43: 81-82
قُلْ إِن كَانَ لِلرَّحْمَنِ وَلَدٌ فَأَنَا أَوَّلُ الْعَابِدِينَ ..إلخ

Third: It is not proper that God the Creator and Eternal betake a son: a human being; why He should have taken a large galaxy or more than that creation, which include marvelous solar systems ...etc.

(Had God intended to adopt a child [to be His son or daughter], He could have chosen out of that which He creates whatever He likes;

be He glorified! He is the One, the Dominant.)

The above is the explanation of the ayat 39:4
لَوْ أَرَادَ اللَّهُ أَنْ يَتَّخِذَ وَلَدًا لَّاصْطَفَى مِمَّا يَخْلُقُ مَا يَشَاء سُبْحَانَهُ هُوَ اللَّهُ الْوَاحِدُ الْقَهَّارُ
 

MHz

Time Out
Mar 16, 2007
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Red Deer AB

I said your only evidence that Jesus is the son of God is some of what you read in the present Gospels, and you disregard that he is more frequently menitoned as the son of man.

I quit myself from your claims. And I admit: No god but God alone without son, daughter or parents.
Jesus alone was without sin when He gave Himself as the last sacrifice acceptable to God, it's no more complicated than that. The Son of man could taste the grave, the Son of God would see the lake if He tasted death.

Second: In case that truly God had had any son, then you [Mohammed] should have been the first one to worship that son; but this is impossible, and it is the word of the heathen or idolaters.
Come on, if I say Jesus always promoted that God alone be worshiped and have supplied verse that back that up why do you insist of saying the exact opposite. Angels worship the Son of God, Satan may have sinned against God but fallen angels were messing with Christ's inheritance and sudden a full 1/3 are gone from Heaven and they are on their way to the lake. Men are created by God, we cannot ever worship anybody but Him. Listening to Christ's instructions is honoring God.

Third: It is not proper that God the Creator and Eternal betake a son: a human being; why He should have taken a large galaxy or more than that creation, which include marvelous solar systems ...etc.
Christ became human so the bruise to Eve's seed heel could be 'completed'

Da.7:22
Until the Ancient of days came,
and judgment was given to the saints of the most High;
and the time came that the saints possessed the kingdom.

Joh.8:58
Jesus said unto them,
Verily,
verily,
I say unto you,
Before Abraham was,
I am.

Proverb.8:22
The LORD possessed me in the beginning of his way,
before his works of old.
Proverb.8:23
I was set up from everlasting,
from the beginning,
or ever the earth was.
Proverb.8:24
When there were no depths,
I was brought forth;
when there were no fountains abounding with water.
Proverb.8:25
Before the mountains were settled,
before the hills was I brought forth:
Proverb.8:26
While as yet he had not made the earth,
nor the fields,
nor the highest part of the dust of the world.
Proverb.8:27
When he prepared the heavens,
I was there:
when he set a compass upon the face of the depth:

Did you read the 7 letters???
 

eanassir

Time Out
Jul 26, 2007
3,099
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Jesus alone was without sin

Yes, Jesus was with sin (as are all sons of man including Noah, Abraham, Moses, Jesus and Mohammed.
All people sin and commit sins.

Jesus sinned when his disciples insisted on him to pray God to give them a table spread with food coming from heaven
In fact he told them: Fear God in case you are true bleievers; they said We want to eat of it, then our hearts be at confidence and we know for certain that you have said the truth to us.
Then he prayed God, being under their pressure.
So God threatened them: that He would send it down, but any of them will disbelieve after that, He will punish him with a most severe punishment more than anyone in the world.

The mistake of the prophet