The solution of Japanese disasters

[Corduroy]

There are many traditions; some of such traditions say she was 25 or more; I think she was at least more than 15.
Nothing about her age is mentioned in the Glorious Quran.
It is only some traditions and history and such traditions are influenced by some sectarian fanatism and glorification of this noble woman because she had a stand against Imam Ali and her father was Abu-Bakr if you know these men.

Is there not a tradition that says she was under 10? What is your standard for choosing one tradition over the other?

The contemporary temptation of people

People now are under trial to see if they follow the truth or they follow the external alluring of wealth and prosperity.
Because they see the West progressive and Muslims retarded, and they think that is because the West is better and Muslims are bad because of their deteriorated situation.

E.g. God sent Moses: a poor shepherd to Pharaoh with his might and progress of his country and his gold ...etc.

Moreover, Moses has a tattering of speech: the word is slow to come to his tongue.

So Pharaoh was proud over Moses and his pride prevented him from following Moses, although he knew for certain that Moses was truthful and he saw his miracles.

Similarly, the late interpreter of the Quran and the Bible Mohammed-Ali Hassan Al-Hilly had a weak voice and the words were slow to come from his mouth with difficulty sometimes, and in his elderly was weak and his shape was like a Jew or Israelite, and he had no wealth, so most people did not follow him and kept up to their traditions.​

Oh, so God chooses people he has punished with personal misfortune as his messengers? He also punishes people who don't follow him (the Japanese) and leaves those who do (Muslims) in poverty and oppression. What an asshole.

 

[MHz]

Oh, so God chooses people he has punished with personal misfortune as his messengers? He also punishes people who don't follow him (the Japanese) and leaves those who do (Muslims) in poverty and oppression. What an asshole.

Perhaps God still has His feet up, ... waiting for the day He can act, until then we are on our own. How would you say the planet is doing? I would say about 3% are having a blast, the other 97%, ........ not so much.

 

[jgarden]

... Now, what will people do? Are they immune against other catastrophes like this and may be more?

..... The Japanes people have to resort to God Almighty alone without associate and leave their association according to their enthusiasm about the religious leaders,

and the most correct way is to resort to the Quran and the Islam, or else such quakes and tsunamies may come on them again and again, when neither their scientific progress nor their alleys will save them.

Japanese people should take the lesson and resort to God alone, and they should not listen to the words of atheists and their misguided religious patrons.
The patron saint

The earthquake and cleavage

Islam will have to take a "number" and join the growing line of religious claims that "the most correct way is to resort to *****. or else quakes and tsuamies may come on them again and again ..."

The reality is that no part of the world, whether it be Christian, Islamic, Hindu or otherwise, has proven to be immune from natural and/or man made disasters.

Religions don't promise some idyllic existance, nor do they claim that "believers" will be exempt from persecution.

True religious "faith" should be based on "love," not on an illusion that true "believers" will be somehow exempt from life's disasters!

 

[eanassir]

God could have found a more suitable target for punishment that a Nation that doesn't even need a curfew or a no-looting law to keep the order after a triple extinction type event. If anything they would be at the bottom of the list. Feel free to add in Colpy's calculations for the Indian ocean victims and Haiti. If anything it is working it's way up the sinners chain of who's who, Japan is only #3.

I could not understand fully: explain the idea more.

 

[darkbeaver]

The Japanese disaster isn't just Japans, maybe God favours the Japanese by poisoning them first and worst. They won't have to watch the rest of us die.

 

[DurkaDurka]

The Japanese disaster isn't just Japans, maybe God favours the Japanese by poisoning them first and worst. They won't have to watch the rest of us die.

God tried that on them back in the 40's, seems his plan was implemented prematurely.

 

[eanassir]

Perhaps God still has His feet up, ... waiting for the day He can act, until then we are on our own. How would you say the planet is doing? I would say about 3% are having a blast, the other 97%, ........ not so much.

God can do whatever He likes whether in the past, the present or the future.

As in the Quran 33: 17
قُلْ مَن ذَا الَّذِي يَعْصِمُكُم مِّنَ اللَّهِ إِنْ أَرَادَ بِكُمْ سُوءًا أَوْ أَرَادَ بِكُمْ رَحْمَةً وَلَا يَجِدُونَ لَهُم مِّن دُونِ اللَّهِ وَلِيًّا وَلَا نَصِيرًا}

The explanation:
(Say [O Mohammed, to them]: "Who is it that can screen you from God in case He intends to punish or to favor you?"

Nor will they have – apart from God – any patron nor any helper.)

 

[DurkaDurka]

God can do whatever He likes whether in the past, the present or the future.

As in the Quran 33: 17
قُلْ مَن ذَا الَّذِي يَعْصِمُكُم مِّنَ اللَّهِ إِنْ أَرَادَ بِكُمْ سُوءًا أَوْ أَرَادَ بِكُمْ رَحْمَةً وَلَا يَجِدُونَ لَهُم مِّن دُونِ اللَّهِ وَلِيًّا وَلَا نَصِيرًا}

The explanation:
(Say [O Mohammed, to them]: "Who is it that can screen you from God in case He intends to punish or to favor you?"

Nor will they have – apart from God – any patron nor any helper.)

Wow, almost like Back to the Future (Great movie)

 

[Corduroy]

Perhaps God still has His feet up, ... waiting for the day He can act, until then we are on our own. How would you say the planet is doing? I would say about 3% are having a blast, the other 97%, ........ not so much.

Comparatively, you can take almost every person living in the West and assume they are substantially better off than most people everywhere else in the world. I'm sure that's over 3%.

Add Japan too, which despite God hating them is 100 times better off than any Muslim country in the world. You could have an earthquake hit downtown Tokyo today and Japan would still be better off than any Muslim country. I would rather have lived my short life in Japan and be swept away in a tsunami last month than live 70 years as a woman in any Muslim country in the world. Even Turkey is only free and democratic on good days.

 

[darkbeaver]

God tried that on them back in the 40's, seems his plan was implemented prematurely.

That's an interesting theological question, I think.

 

[Corduroy]

As eanassir claims, God is punishing us all it seems. The godless secular Japanese are punished with earthquakes for not believing and Allah's followers are punished to test their resolve. The secular developed world is rewarded with riches so that God may tempt his followers. So where are we? Breaking down eanassir's claims we are given the choice between living in poverty, ignorance and state brutality as a test of our piety, or living in comparatively obscene opulence, health, security, freedom and technology punctuated by the occasional natural disaster; which oddly enough all the riches and technology god has given us to test his followers makes us more than capable of mitigating the effects of. Meanwhile, his followers when subjected to similar disasters die in the hundreds of thousands. And who is it that comes to their aid?

Are we seriously expected to make a choice here?

 

[eanassir]

Is there not a tradition that says she was under 10? What is your standard for choosing one tradition over the other?

I explained about this many times before, but you incline to falsehood and insist on this point, while this noble wife of te prophet had some sectarian divisions; because she was the daughter of Abu Bakr the first caliph preferred by the Sunni, and she stood against Imam Ali the fourth caliph preferred by the Shiite; and there are many fabricated traditions glorifying her or against her.

Oh, so God chooses people he has punished with personal misfortune as his messengers? He also punishes people who don't follow him (the Japanese) and leaves those who do (Muslims) in poverty and oppression. What an asshole.

God specified some of His apostles by some criteria which were not any punishment but as I said as a trial for people to see will they follow the truth or will they be cheated by the wrong-doers with their wealth and power.

Moreover, God punishes the wrong-doers specially when they fall in the idolatry and associating of their imams, saints and religious leaders together with God Most Gracious.

 

[Corduroy]

I explained about this many times before, but you incline to falsehood and insist on this point, while this noble wife of te prophet had some sectarian divisions; because she was the daughter of Abu Bakr the first caliph preferred by the Sunni, and she stood against Imam Ali the fourth caliph preferred by the Shiite; and there are many fabricated traditions glorifying her or against her.

Don't put words in my mouth. It's dishonest and I wouldn't want Allah to punish your neighbours with an earthquake because you're lying on the internet. I have not come down on either side of this debate. I'm open to her being 9 and open to her being 25. You've argued that she was an adult because there is a tradition that says she was. Are you denying that there is also a tradition that says she was a pre-teen child? If you are relying on "tradition" you need to prove that one is more reliable than the other, which is why I asked for your standard of evidence. How are you choosing one over the other?

Moreover, God punishes the wrong-doers specially when they fall in the idolatry and associating of their imams, saints and religious leaders together with God Most Gracious.

Maybe you should focus your attention on them then, because God obviously punishes believing idolaters more than he punishes the non-believing Japanese. You're trying to argue in this thread that Japan's godlessness caused the earthquake in Japan and (as an afterthought to the fatuity of that argument) that poverty and violence in Muslim countries is caused by not quite worshipping god right. In other words, most Muslims live in poverty and oppression for their entire lives because they are idolatrous and worship improperly. Most Japanese live in luxury and freedom most of their lives with the occasional earthquake that kills a fraction of them because they don't worship Allah at all. Who's better off?

 

[eanassir]

War and fighting occurred in the past and the present time and in the future until the Mahdi or Elia of the Last Days or the Paraclite will come when at his time peace will be all over the world.

And it is mentioned in the Book of Isaiah, chapter 2: 2-4
"His saying- “ and they shall turn their swords into ploughshares and their spears into sickles” means : they will change their swords and spears and make them ploughshares and sickles, because there will be no wars, at that time, and no fighting so that they may fight with the swords and spears, but peace and safety will be settled; and for this reason He said after it: “ Nation shall not lift up sword against nation: neither shall they be exercised any more to war.”

In The Last Days


God punished Jews and Christians in the past by making wars between them, as He punishes Muslims and others now with such wars.

 

[Corduroy]

You're saying that the earthquake is proof of God's punishment for not believing and that poverty, violence and oppression in Muslim countries is proof that they aren't practising Islam properly. Where's your proof that practising Islam properly leads to prosperity? There are no countries in the world that exemplify this and there never has been.

In the whole history of humanity, people have lived in fear, squalor and oppression. The West in the past hundred years or a little more is a minor exception to this, which is thousands of times more prosperous than any civilization that has ever existed. If you can find a proper Muslim society at any point in history, I will point you to a non-Muslim country in the world today that is significantly more free and prosperous.

God punished Jews and Christians in the past by making wars between them, as He punishes Muslims and others now with such wars.

How did God punish Christians for making wars between them? They were making wars between each other for centuries and getting no where and then suddenly in the 19th century, while still making wars with each other, they somehow conquered the world. Europe became the most prosperous civilization in human history, hadcontrol over the entire world... and they kept right on fighting each other. After the two most devastating, world encompassing and bloody wars in history, European prosperity continued. The wars were devastating, but Europe still advanced while the rest of the world sputtered. Then, for some 50 years, the West along with the communist bloc threatened to annihilate all of humanity with nuclear weapons. And yet technology, science, medicine, standards of living still advanced. Where's God's punishment for all their wars?

 

[eanassir]

Don't put words in my mouth. It's dishonest and I wouldn't want Allah to punish your neighbours with an earthquake because you're lying on the internet.

----------------

I have not come down on either side of this debate. I'm open to her being 9 and open to her being 25. You've argued that she was an adult because there is a tradition that says she was. Are you denying that there is also a tradition that says she was a pre-teen child? If you are relying on "tradition" you need to prove that one is more reliable than the other, which is why I asked for your standard of evidence. How are you choosing one over the other?

There are many fabricated prophetic traditions, so we refer to the Quran to find which tradition is correct or false: if such tradition goes along with the Quran then it is true, while if the tradition contradicts the Quran then it is false.

In the Quran there is nothing like she was child;

moreover, the marriage in the law of the Islam should be by the agreeing of the woman, that the judge will ask her: Do you agree to marry this man? So if she says yes, then ok; and if she does not agree then the marriage cannot be authentic. And the adult age is required so that her answer is justified.

Maybe you should focus your attention on them then, because God obviously punishes believing idolaters more than he punishes the non-believing Japanese.

How can the idolater be any believer? unless he believes in the idolatry and idols.

You're trying to argue in this thread that Japan's godlessness caused the earthquake in Japan and (as an afterthought to the fatuity of that argument) that poverty and violence in Muslim countries is caused by not quite worshipping god right. In other words, most Muslims live in poverty and oppression for their entire lives because they are idolatrous and worship improperly.

Most Japanese live in luxury and freedom most of their lives with the occasional earthquake that kills a fraction of them because they don't worship Allah at all. Who's better off?

The World is the paradise of the non-believer and the hell of the believer. In other words: God rewards the disbeliever in the World (for any good he might have done) but in the afterlife he will lose completely.

While the Muslim (in case he does not associate with his Lord) will be punished in the World and prosper in the afterlife.

And I asked Abu Abd Allah the late interpreter about this: the luxury of the West and the hardness of Muslims, and he said: God rewards them in the World but they will lose in the afterlife.

As God said in the Quran 3: 85
وَمَن يَبْتَغِ غَيْرَ الإِسْلاَمِ دِينًا فَلَن يُقْبَلَ مِنْهُ وَهُوَ فِي الآخِرَةِ مِنَ الْخَاسِرِينَ

The explanation:
(And whoso seeks as religion, other than the Islam, it* will not be accepted from him [because the past religions were altered],

and he shall, in the afterlife, be of those who lose [the prosperity of Paradise.])

-----------------------------------------------------
*It means: his righteous work will not be accepted from him, because he disbelieved in Mohammed the apostle of God and because he disbelieved in the Quran the revealed word of God.

quran-ayat.co

 

[Corduroy]

There are many fabricated prophetic traditions, so we refer to the Quran to find which tradition is correct or false: if such tradition goes along with the Quran then it is true, while if the tradition contradicts the Quran then it is false.

In the Quran there is nothing like she was child;

Is there anything that says she was an adult?

How can the idolater be any believer? unless he believes in the idolatry and idols.

Are you saying that an idolater is not a Muslim?

The World is the paradise of the non-believer and the hell of the believer

. In other words: God rewards the disbeliever in the World (for any good he might have done) but in the afterlife he will lose completely.

While the Muslim (in case he does not associate with his Lord) will be punished in the World and prosper in the afterlife.

And I asked Abu Abd Allah the late interpreter about this: the luxury of the West and the hardness of Muslims, and he said: God rewards them in the World but they will lose in the afterlife.

That's all very lovely, but see in this thread you've been arguing about punishment in this world. You've been saying that the earthquake in Japan would not have happened had the Japanese worshipped Allah properly. So which is it? Believers are punished and non-believers aren't or non-believers are punished and believers are?

 

[eanassir]

Wars occurred among Jews as punishment for their idolatry and wrong doing.
Their Hearts Were Hardened
http://www.quran-ayat.com/conflicts/english2.htm#Their_Hearts_Were_Hardened_

 

[MHz]

God can do whatever He likes whether in the past, the present or the future.

That's not true, He has to stick to the prophecies He has already given.

Isa:42:9: Behold, the former things are come to pass, and new things do I declare: before they spring forth I tell you of them.

Jer:4:28: For this shall the earth mourn, and the heavens above be black: because I have spoken it, I have purposed it, and will not repent, neither will I turn back from it.

For Japan to be part of the end time prophecies it would have to be within 3 1/2 years of Christ's return. In that time Jerusalem is still the focus of the prophecies. If the disaster is not in that time-frame mentioned it cannot pinpoint any timing, it becomes part of a general reference to an undetermined length of time.

M't.24:7
For nation shall rise against nation,
and kingdom against kingdom:
and there shall be famines,
and pestilences,
and earthquakes,
in divers places.

The first quake that is part of the start of the end also has to see other events be fulfilled just as literally. The first 4 trumps of Revelation could happen within 4 days, The deaths associated with wormwood start at the end of that period and continue until Christ's return.

Re.8:6-12
And the seven angels which had the seven trumpets prepared themselves to sound.
The first angel sounded,
and there followed hail and fire mingled with blood,
and they were cast upon the earth:
and the third part of trees was burnt up,
and all green grass was burnt up.
And the second angel sounded,
and as it were a great mountain burning with fire was cast into the sea:
and the third part of the sea became blood;
And the third part of the creatures which were in the sea,
and had life,
died;
and the third part of the ships were destroyed.
And the third angel sounded,
and there fell a great star from heaven,
burning as it were a lamp,
and it fell upon the third part of the rivers,
and upon the fountains of waters;
And the name of the star is called Wormwood:
and the third part of the waters became wormwood;
and many men died of the waters,
because they were made bitter.
And the fourth angel sounded,
and the third part of the sun was smitten,
and the third part of the moon,
and the third part of the stars;
so as the third part of them was darkened,
and the day shone not for a third part of it,
and the night likewise.

If I was to try and apply Japan to the first trump it would still have to happen on a scale that is already too long. It might still have all 6 radiate for months and years. Could the verse mean radiation maybe if 1/3 of commercial shipping ended, that might be because of no freight or it could be damage to the ships that made them unsafe. I'm going to admit I would scratch my chin if 1/3 of all 737-300 were grounded but that is still one point and the 1/3 that die in the seas would be dead rather than being given something that will eventually kill them. Revelation is also written in such a way that some of the bigger disasters claim a portion, like 1/3, over a specific number. Revelation only need a world population of about 600,000 to be fulfilled according to the numbers listed. Granted this JMHO but attitude is the way to survive in those days compared to being able to life in some specific area. For a Christian it is the same thing as before those days begin. Faith through works rather than false lip service.

Jas.2:14
What doth it profit,
my brethren,
though a man say he hath faith,
and have not works?
can faith save him?
Jas.2:15
If a brother or sister be naked,
and destitute of daily food,
Jas.2:16
And one of you say unto them,
Depart in peace,
be ye warmed and filled;
notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body;
what doth it profit?
Jas.2:17
Even so faith,
if it hath not works,
is dead,
being alone.

I have no idea how well that part of the operation is going, I would assume as caring as any Gov is the exodus will be a day alter than it should be or the people will simply be sacrificed and the total silently added at a later date when everybody is watching something else.

 

[eanassir]

Quote: Originally Posted by eanassir

God can do whatever He likes whether in the past, the present or the future.
​

That's not true, He has to stick to the prophecies He has already given.

Yes, it is true: God does whatever He likes.
On the other hand: God keeps His word or promise, and if He promises, will fulfill His promise which is in fact that which He likes to do.

As God said this many times in the Quran, like:
10: 55
أَلا إِنَّ لِلّهِ مَا فِي السَّمَاوَاتِ وَالأَرْضِ أَلاَ إِنَّ وَعْدَ اللّهِ حَقٌّ وَلَكِنَّ أَكْثَرَهُمْ لاَ يَعْلَمُونَ

The explanation:
(Surely to God belongs all that is in the heavens and the earth;
surely God's promise is true, but the most of them have no knowledge.)

And God said in the Quran 3: 9
رَبَّنَا إِنَّكَ جَامِعُ النَّاسِ لِيَوْمٍ لاَّ رَيْبَ فِيهِ إِنَّ اللّهَ لاَ يُخْلِفُ الْمِيعَادَ

The explanation:
("Our Lord! You are gathering people* to a day about which there is no doubt; for God never breaks His promise.")
----------------------------------------------------
* It means: God gathers people in the spirit world or the Barzakh world to a day about which there is no doubt: which is the Doomsday.

And God said in the Quran 2: 80
وَقَالُواْ لَن تَمَسَّنَا النَّارُ إِلاَّ أَيَّاماً مَّعْدُودَةً قُلْ أَتَّخَذْتُمْ عِندَ اللّهِ عَهْدًا فَلَن يُخْلِفَ اللّهُ عَهْدَهُ أَمْ تَقُولُونَ عَلَى اللّهِ مَا لاَ تَعْلَمُونَ

The explanation:
(And they [Jews] say, 'The fire [of Hell] shall not touch us save for several days.'**

Say: 'Have you taken a covenant with God; for God breaks not His covenant? Or do you say of God that which you do not know?')
---------------------------------------------------------
** They claimed the seven days during which they worshipped the gold calf in the time of Moses.

And there are many other ayat of the Quran about this meaning.

But most of these narrated prophecies are vague and ambiguous in the present traditions and the available Bible: because of the many many alterations and changes and because of the translation from one version to another and the loss of many books from the Torah collection or the Hebrew Bible (in addition to the inventions and alterations made by Ezra son of Siraeh) and the burning of many versions of the Gospel.

Moreover, even the prophets in the past did not know the forefuture: and in the Quran Noah said to his people that he was a human being like them and he did not know the forefuture knowledge; this had been said by all the prophets including Mohammed:
As in the Quran 18: 110
قُلْ إِنَّمَا أَنَا بَشَرٌ مِّثْلُكُمْ يُوحَى إِلَيَّ أَنَّمَا إِلَهُكُمْ إِلَهٌ وَاحِدٌ فَمَن كَانَ يَرْجُو لِقَاء رَبِّهِ فَلْيَعْمَلْ عَمَلًا صَالِحًا وَلَا يُشْرِكْ بِعِبَادَةِ رَبِّهِ أَحَدًا

The explanation:
([Mohammed] Say [to them]: "I am only a human being like yourselves; [but] I am inspired that your God is only One God.
Then let him who hopes to meet his Lord work righteous works, and associate none in worshipping his Lord."

And in the Quran 6: 50
قُل لاَّ أَقُولُ لَكُمْ عِندِي خَزَآئِنُ اللّهِ وَلا أَعْلَمُ الْغَيْبَ وَلا أَقُولُ لَكُمْ إِنِّي مَلَكٌ إِنْ أَتَّبِعُ إِلاَّ مَا يُوحَى إِلَيَّ

The explanation:
( Say [O Mohammed, to these unbelievers]:
"I tell you not that with me are the treasuries of [the mercy of] God [so that I can work miracles like those of Jesus who cured the congenitally-blind and the albino and revived the dead with God's leave],

nor that I know the Unknown,

nor do I tell you that I am angel [like him, because Jesus was an angel that came down from heaven according to God's command, and entered in the body of the fetus inside Mary's womb.]

But I only follow [the commandment] that is revealed to me [from my Lord.]" ..etc)


However, God may inform His apostle some information about the forefuture, but not all the knowledge and not to all people.

And God may give a word of promise to the prophets and to people included in the heavenly books --> which will surely be fulfilled.

>> Example: Prophet Mohammed went here and there to Taef and other places to find any who may assisst him and shelter him until he found that with the people of Yathrib or the Medina: if he had known this , then he would have gone to them from the start.

>>Another example: God ordered Moses to take his people and go toward the sea and cross over a dry road therein, so Moses obeyed, but he did not know how this would occur, then when he came to the sea shore and was enclosed by the army of Pharaoh and the sea; so the comrades of Moses said: We will certainly perish now by the army of Pharaoh. But Moses said: No, God will certainly show me how to behave. Then God revealed to him: Strike the sea with your staff. All this for trying people to see about their faith.

As in the Quran 26: 61
فَلَمَّا تَرَاءى الْجَمْعَانِ قَالَ أَصْحَابُ مُوسَى إِنَّا لَمُدْرَكُونَ ...إلخ

The explanation:
( And when the two hosts faced each other, Moses party said: "We will surely be overtaken [by Pharaoh and his hosts.]"

[Moses] said: "Certainly not; [for] my Lord is with me; He will surely guide me [to the way of safety.]

So We revealed to Moses [saying]: "Strike the sea with your staff"; [so he struck it]; and the water clave, so that each separate part was as a huge mountain.")

I have no idea how well that part of the operation is going, I would assume as caring as any Gov is the exodus will be a day alter than it should be or the people will simply be sacrificed and the total silently added at a later date when everybody is watching something else.

So in case such prophets as Moses, Mohammed and the others did not the forefuture and how things will go exactly, how can you or I or others know that, but we may only know things in general as the promises stated in the Quran and the Bible, and taking in considreation that the Bible now is not like it was revealed by God All-Knowing.

quran-ayat.co