The Seven Beatitudes of Marriage

Ludlow

Hall of Fame Member
Jun 7, 2014
13,588
0
36
wherever i sit down my ars
Let me ask you Gerry as I do not consider you to be a dishonest person. Have you read all 66 books of the Christian bible. Now I'm not talking about the Catholic bible as it is a little differen

Agree, LL. Jewish wedding traditions are both beautiful and meaningful. You still can experience such a wedding as there is one which precedes the wedding feast of the Lamb : )
I don't think so Motar. I wasn't very good at it.

"Look, I come like a thief! Blessed is the one who stays awake and remains clothed, so as not to go naked and be shamefully exposed.” (Revelation 16:15 NIV)

So pleased you zeroed in on this one, TB.

Referencing the sudden and unexpected appearance of the Bridegroom, the speaker (Christ) ascribes blessing to the sober and properly attired. Sobriety is hailed because the end of history will be characterized by much self-medication due to the desperate conditions. Properly dressed is celebrated because self-righteousness self-justification will be the deplorable fashion trend of the latter times.
I'm getting that you believe in Grace and Grace alone Motar.

I know the Bible, I just don't believe that it is all the word of God. Like the bullshyte about a woman taking a back seat to a man.
In that we agree sir.
 

gerryh

Time Out
Nov 21, 2004
25,756
295
83
Let me ask you Gerry as I do not consider you to be a dishonest person. Have you read all 66 books of the Christian bible. Now I'm not talking about the Catholic bible as it is a little different.


Considering I am Catholic, that would be the Bible I have read. The Bible says lots of things. Men have used it to take advantage of the gullible for thousands of years. The Bible is not Christianity, the belief in Jesus Christ, the only begotten son of the Father. Who came to earth to die for our sins so that we could have life ever after, is.
 

Ludlow

Hall of Fame Member
Jun 7, 2014
13,588
0
36
wherever i sit down my ars
Agree, LL. Jewish wedding traditions are both beautiful and meaningful. You still can experience such a wedding as there is one which precedes the wedding feast of the Lamb : )
I have thought sometimes Motar that if there were a "next life" that I might have the chance to meet someone and do a better job of it than I did in this life. But who knows.
 

Motar

Council Member
Jun 18, 2013
2,472
39
48
I'm getting that you believe in Grace and Grace alone.

Saved by grace and sanctified by truth, LL. "We have seen his glory, the glory of the one and only Son, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth." (John 1:14 NIV)
 

Ludlow

Hall of Fame Member
Jun 7, 2014
13,588
0
36
wherever i sit down my ars
We still have to decide whether or not to accept the gift.
That puts the burden on you Motar. A burden that has been carried by someone else.

I know the Bible, I just don't believe that it is all the word of God. Like the bullshyte about a woman taking a back seat to a man.
And Jesus never taught that Gerry. That was taught by someone else. Jesus had lots of followers many of which were women. They loved him. He was all about what was fair and just. When the adultress was to be stoned for her crime and Jesus became aware he told the people, "you are right. She has committed adultery. " Let "HIM", who is among you who is without sin, cast the first stone. Because it takes two to commit adultery, not one.
 

Motar

Council Member
Jun 18, 2013
2,472
39
48
That puts the burden on you Motar. A burden that has been taken on by someone else.

Some think Calvin is right, LL, that salvation is just God. Others believe Arminius is correct and salvation is all man. I believe they are both right. By God's design, salvation is a cooperative outcome of God's offer and man's acceptance. Therein lies our responsibility.
 

Ludlow

Hall of Fame Member
Jun 7, 2014
13,588
0
36
wherever i sit down my ars
I was eight years old when I started reading the bible. The Mormons would always have me read out loud to them because I guess I was a pretty good reader. Mom wanted us in church so she made us go to the Mormon church. That is where I was baptized. Ever since then I had read the bible but not really in a way that would lead me to put things in context very well. I would kind of pick and choose verses to justify my opinion on various issues relative to what the bible might say. did that for many years. It wasn't until I reached middle age that I actually sat down and read the books , from Genesis to Revelation in the order that they are given in the protestant bible.
Revise King James Version. I sat under a big oak tree out in the Ozarks and it took me about two months. I just read a little every day. I think all Christians should read the whole bible and not just rely on their pastor or minister or whoever to get their info. That's just my opinion for what it's worth.

Some think Calvin is right, LL, that salvation is just God. Others believe Arminius is correct and salvation is all man. I believe they are both right. By God's design, salvation is a cooperative outcome of God's offer and man's acceptance. Therein lies our responsibility.
I believe neither. I only believe what Jesus had to say in his parables. I care very little about what Calvin, or all the other so called experts on doctrine had to say. Especially Calvin. I only care about what Jesus said. " Period".

I'm not a Christian Motar. I see things in a way that are separate from Christian doctrine.
 

gerryh

Time Out
Nov 21, 2004
25,756
295
83
And Jesus never taught that Gerry. That was taught by someone else. Jesus had lots of followers many of which were women. They loved him. He was all about what was fair and just. When the adultress was to be stoned for her crime and Jesus became aware he told the people, "you are right. She has committed adultery. " Let "HIM", who is among you who is without sin, cast the first stone. Because it takes two to commit adultery, not one.


I never said that Jesus taught that. The other meaning for what Christ said is that WE do not have right to judge or condemn someone else as WE are not without sin.

It's like these holier than thou dickheads that go around telling people that they are going to hell. Who the fu ck do they think they are. They have no authority to make that determination. It is not their place.
 

Ludlow

Hall of Fame Member
Jun 7, 2014
13,588
0
36
wherever i sit down my ars
No we don't have the right but we all do every day of our lives. Is there a day in the week that you do not judge someone? You judge people on this forum all the time. And so do I. As far as hell I believe it is a state of mind. I do not believe in a god that would be petty enough to torture people for eternity. That's ridiculous. If you believe the man then all you need to do is be yourself. If you believe that his work was sufficient then why be anything other than who we are. I like the parable of the New Wine. If you put the New wine in an old wineskin then the skin may break and all of the new wine will spill out on the ground. But if you put it in a New Wine skin both will be preserved. Religion tries to corrupt what he has done by saying we need to take a little bit of the old traditions and add them to this new covenant. Like putting a new piece of cloth on an old garment. It simply won't work. If you believe that he paid the price and his performance is adequate, then nothing else need be done by you or me. Somewhere along the line this has been overlooked. That's why I like to read what he said. Because what is missing in what he said that is present in Christianity, is the guilt and fear that he came to abolish. That is what I get from his teachings. And anyone else's teachings in the bible mean very little to me.

You being a Catholic Gerry means you probably believe Jesus is god. I don't believe that. What I do believe is that he represented something and someone who is good . Not someone to fear. What and who that person is I could never even begin to define. And who would want to. You and I are not much different in our beliefs. You're just more of an azzhole about it than I am. :)

Some think Calvin is right, LL, that salvation is just God. Others believe Arminius is correct and salvation is all man. I believe they are both right. By God's design, salvation is a cooperative outcome of God's offer and man's acceptance. Therein lies our responsibility.
Motar, I honestly think that the disciples and those that came after that called themselves disciples didn't have a clue what he was getting at much less Calvin, Arminius , Wesley, Luther and all the rest including the early Catholic church fathers which I don't need to list. I actually don't think they had a damn clue.

No we don't have the right but we all do every day of our lives. Is there a day in the week that you do not judge someone? You judge people on this forum all the time. And so do I. As far as hell I believe it is a state of mind. I do not believe in a god that would be petty enough to torture people for eternity. That's ridiculous. If you believe the man then all you need to do is be yourself. If you believe that his work was sufficient then why be anything other than who we are. I like the parable of the New Wine. If you put the New wine in an old wineskin then the skin may break and all of the new wine will spill out on the ground. But if you put it in a New Wine skin both will be preserved. Religion tries to corrupt what he has done by saying we need to take a little bit of the old traditions and add them to this new covenant. Like putting a new piece of cloth on an old garment. It simply won't work. If you believe that he paid the price and his performance is adequate, then nothing else need be done by you or me. Somewhere along the line this has been overlooked. That's why I like to read what he said. Because what is missing in what he said that is present in Christianity, is the guilt and fear that he came to abolish. That is what I get from his teachings. And anyone else's teachings in the bible mean very little to me.

You being a Catholic Gerry means you probably believe Jesus is god. I don't believe that. What I do believe is that he represented something and someone who is good . Not someone to fear. What and who that person is I could never even begin to define. And who would want to. You and I are not much different in our beliefs. You're just more of an azzhole about it than I am. :)


Motar, I honestly think that the disciples and those that came after that called themselves disciples didn't have a clue what he was getting at much less Calvin, Arminius , Wesley, Luther and all the rest including the early Catholic church fathers which I don't need to list. I actually don't think they had a damn clue.
I do think that maybe Mary, Martha Joanna and some of the other Ladies understood because they did not put on a performance like the men did to try and gain attention for themselves. I think they may have understood.
 

Motar

Council Member
Jun 18, 2013
2,472
39
48
If there is no marriage at the resurrection (Matt 22, Mark 12, Luke 20), what is the meaning of the pervasive marriage imagery inherent in Scripture?

"This is a profound mystery—but I am talking about Christ and the church." (Ephesians 5:32 NIV)
 

MHz

Time Out
Mar 16, 2007
41,030
43
48
Red Deer AB
If there is no marriage at the resurrection (Matt 22, Mark 12, Luke 20), what is the meaning of the pervasive marriage imagery inherent in Scripture?
Ec:3:20:
All go unto one place;
all are of the dust,
and all turn to dust again.

Ec:12:7:
Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was:
and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

The 'marriage' needs to be defined a bit. When God created man in Ge:1 it was as male and female. The 'model' for that was the 'us' that was speaking in that chapter, God and the Holy Spirit. If Adam was 'not complete' until he and Eve were married then Jesus will not 'be complete' until He is 'married'. He found the woman He fell in love with as soon as He returned from the 40 days in the wilderness. She was a Disciple of John the Baptist at that time as she later became known to be 'the Beloved Disciple'. Mary of Bethany was the one at the cross that Jesus gave responsibility to for the caring of His mother. They would have gone to Greece during the exodus after Stephen was killed. All the Apostles stayed in Jerusalem until the scattering in 70AD.
Mary of Bethany is the author of the Gospel of John and Revelations and is the person that is most important in the 3 Epistles. Moses had God take away the breath of life at the age of 120 years. Since that is the age of Judgment Moses is able to receive glorification, Mary would also have been that age as she is the very first one from mankind that is resurrected after the two witnesses and she alone will stand beside Christ in a glorified body. The breath of life returns to God at the death of a person so she would have died and then experienced judgment and glorification would have taken place. The return she experiences is to be leading the way for the 12 Tribes as defined in Eze:37. Adam and Eve would stand in as 'her parents' and that would eventually include everybody that is part of the Re:20:4 resurrection and reign called the , 1 thousand year reign.
The 3rd vision of Fatima was the virgin Mary, that is the beloved Disciple rather than the mother of Jesus who was a virgin when chosen but not a virgin when she died, Mary of Bethany was still a virgin after she wrote Revelations and when she returns it is in a glorified body that Jesus had for the 40 days after the cross. All others behind her will have to go to the 'river' from Eze:47 to be glorified. The population of the earth during the 1,000 is the same from start to end and that is a 'learning period' most of the time. For Mary and the 12 Tribes it will see the Garden return to the 'Promised Land' as if sin had never taken place and that is how Jerusalem will appear at the time Satan and the other fallen angels are released from the Pit for their execution and being cast into the fiery lake.

That same population will live inside New Jerusalem during the new earth verses and they will be the 'teachers' of the ones that were not alive for that 'first day in the Kingdom of God'. (Isaiah:65).

The reference below is revealed as soon as she is mentioned, Christ then takes her alone to see a view they alone can see as mankind is inside the City at that point and Adam and Eve step out into a place that needs as much transformation that the garden did in Ge:2.

Re:21:9-10:
And there came unto me one of the seven angels which had the seven vials full of the seven last plagues, and talked with me, saying, Come hither,
I will shew thee the bride,
the Lamb's wife.
And he carried me away
in the spirit to a great and high mountain,
and shewed me that great city,
the holy Jerusalem,
descending out of heaven from God,

Re:19:6-9:
And I heard as it were the voice of a great multitude,
and as the voice of many waters,
and as the voice of mighty thunderings,
saying,
Alleluia: for the Lord God omnipotent reigneth.
Let us be glad and rejoice,

and give honour to him:
for the marriage of the Lamb is come,
and his wife hath made herself ready.

And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen,
clean and white:
for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints.
And he saith unto me,
Write,
Blessed are they which are called unto the marriage supper of the Lamb.
And he saith unto me,
These are the true sayings of God.

Joe:2:15-21:
Blow the trumpet in Zion,
sanctify a fast,
call a solemn assembly:
Gather the people,
sanctify the congregation,
assemble the elders,
gather the children,
and those that suck the breasts:
let the bridegroom go forth of his chamber,
and the bride out of her closet.
Let the priests,
the ministers of the LORD,
weep between the porch and the altar,
and let them say,
Spare thy people,
O LORD,
and give not thine heritage to reproach,
that the heathen should rule over them:
wherefore should they say among the people,
Where is their God?
Then will the LORD be jealous for his land,
and pity his people.

Yea,
the LORD will answer and say unto his people,
Behold,
I will send you corn,
and wine,
and oil,
and ye shall be satisfied therewith:
and I will no more make you a reproach among the heathen:
But I will remove far off from you the northern army,
and will drive him into a land barren and desolate,
with his face toward the east sea,
and his hinder part toward the utmost sea, and his stink shall come up,
and his ill savour shall come up,
because he hath done great things.
Fear not,
O land;
be glad and rejoice:
for the LORD will do great things.

Joh:11:24:
Martha saith unto him,
I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day.

"This is a profound mystery—but I am talking about Christ and the church." (Ephesians 5:32 NIV)
Think of Mary as being the head of the Church as she is the one who had the visions in Revelations and that would include the 7 letters written to 'all Gentiles'.

Re:1:7:
Behold,
he cometh with clouds;
and every eye shall see him,
and they also which pierced him:
and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him.
Even so,
Amen.
 

damngrumpy

Executive Branch Member
Mar 16, 2005
9,949
21
38
kelowna bc
When God created man and so on, we again return to the writings of a
two thousand year old book like selfsame climbs aboard the pages of
ancient text to direct us to the way of living. Did God create man and
woman and if he did we have a lot of flaws.
He made the inspiration for a Dyson Vacuum Cleaner with more and
better durability and performance.
I don't have a problem with God I have a problem with people who want
to shelve us in centuries past. If JC or anyone else came back today
they would likely have an entirely different message to address the real
problems of today. Oh if that were to happen we'd label them a Liberal
or a Conservative and disregard the message.
I live life by breathing in the air not reading ancient texts.
 

Motar

Council Member
Jun 18, 2013
2,472
39
48
The 'marriage' needs to be defined a bit. When God created man in Ge:1 it was as male and female. The 'model' for that was the 'us' that was speaking in that chapter, God and the Holy Spirit. If Adam was 'not complete' until he and Eve were married then Jesus will not 'be complete' until He is 'married'...

"The imagery and symbolism of marriage is applied to Christ and the body of believers known as the church. These are those who have trusted in Jesus Christ as their personal savior and have received eternal life. In the New Testament, Christ, the Bridegroom, has sacrificially and lovingly chosen the church to be His bride (Ephesians 5:25-27). Just as there was a betrothal period in biblical times during which the bride and groom were separated until the wedding, so is the bride of Christ separate from her Bridegroom during the church age. Her responsibility during the betrothal period is to be faithful to Him (2 Corinthians 11:2; Ephesians 5:24). At the Second Coming of Christ, the church will be united with the Bridegroom, the official "wedding ceremony" will take place and, with it, the eternal union of Christ and His bride will be actualized (Revelation 19:7-9; 21:1-2). "
What does it mean that the church is the bride of Christ?
 

Ludlow

Hall of Fame Member
Jun 7, 2014
13,588
0
36
wherever i sit down my ars
When God created man and so on, we again return to the writings of a
two thousand year old book like selfsame climbs aboard the pages of
ancient text to direct us to the way of living. Did God create man and
woman and if he did we have a lot of flaws.
He made the inspiration for a Dyson Vacuum Cleaner with more and
better durability and performance.
I don't have a problem with God I have a problem with people who want
to shelve us in centuries past. If JC or anyone else came back today
they would likely have an entirely different message to address the real
problems of today. Oh if that were to happen we'd label them a Liberal
or a Conservative and disregard the message.
I live life by breathing in the air not reading ancient texts.
Not so much into the New Testament with the exception of many of the teachings attributed to the man called Jesus even though we know that Jesus never wrote a single word. But there are many good positive aspects of the Old Testament if taken in a figurative sense and understood more as stories with a moral lesson to be learned. The lesson of taking responsibility for your own actions and honesty in the story of Adam and Eve being just one of hundreds of lessons overlooked in favor of the literalism and historicity of the story. If one can get past the reality and actuality of the writings of the Old Testament there are lots of good morals to the stories to be learned. Looking at it in this manner, you'll find that the story book fiction is much more than you thought it might be and a brilliant piece of work by those held in captivity.
 

Motar

Council Member
Jun 18, 2013
2,472
39
48
"The imagery and symbolism of marriage is applied to Christ and the body of believers known as the church. These are those who have trusted in Jesus Christ as their personal savior and have received eternal life. In the New Testament, Christ, the Bridegroom, has sacrificially and lovingly chosen the church to be His bride (Ephesians 5:25-27). Just as there was a betrothal period in biblical times during which the bride and groom were separated until the wedding, so is the bride of Christ separate from her Bridegroom during the church age. Her responsibility during the betrothal period is to be faithful to Him (2 Corinthians 11:2; Ephesians 5:24). At the Second Coming of Christ, the church will be united with the Bridegroom, the official "wedding ceremony" will take place and, with it, the eternal union of Christ and His bride will be actualized (Revelation 19:7-9; 21:1-2). "
What does it mean that the church is the bride of Christ?

Think spiritual union, MHz.
 

gopher

Hall of Fame Member
Jun 26, 2005
21,513
67
48
Minnesota: Gopher State
Ludlow; said:
That puts the burden on you Motar. A burden that has been carried by someone else.


And Jesus never taught that Gerry. That was taught by someone else. Jesus had lots of followers many of which were women. They loved him. He was all about what was fair and just. When the adultress was to be stoned for her crime and Jesus became aware he told the people, "you are right. She has committed adultery. " Let "HIM", who is among you who is without sin, cast the first stone. Because it takes two to commit adultery, not one.




Actually, Jesus saved the lives of the mob because they were under the jurisdiction of governor Pilate and Roman law which would have required a fair trial in order to execute the laws of the land. Had those people killed her without a trial, the Roman authorities would have prosecuted them perhaps even calling for capital punishment.