The New Paganism and the Culture of Death

[sanctus]

Then let me ask this...

Your watching or reading the news, as is apparently a fave pass time of yours, and you see a news broadcast. In this particular piece, you see some being led to a waiting Police car, in the time it takes to put the cuffed individual in the back, he/she blurts out that he/she had to kill them all, "they were all satianists!". Then sites, before the door closes on the sound byte, "I know they were, they're Pagans, a preist on line told me so!!!".

A tad far fetch 'perhaps', but what if? What would be your instant feeling? If it were to be found in a court of law, as the trial unfolded, that it was your words that percipetated this act, how would you feel? Would 'absolution' be enough?

I can't answer you. The situation is too extreme for me to know exactly how, if anything, I'd feel.These sorts of questions always give me trouble as I have no experience to faithfully provide an accurate answer.I can say that I do not accept, in general, the "he told me to" defence used by people perpetuating crimes. I don't know if this is what you were looking for, but it is the best I can answer.

 

[sanctus]

I say it again. Sanctus tell all here you do not agree with the article posted and I will let it die.

Since you are so interested, fine. I believe paganism is one of the most dangerous cults in today's multi-religious world. It leads to spiritual emptiness and the influence of evil. It tends to attract weak-minded teenagers who are spiritually vacant and are seeking a means to feel powerful. What they do not realize is that dabbling in the occult can lead to demonic dangers. And before you lump the lot in, I am referring specifically to the neo-pagan, new age mumbo-jumbo that has become so popular since the 1980's. I stand exactly where you'd expect me to stand, with the Church in this matter. The Catechism of the Catholic Church states, "All practices of magic or sorcery, by which one attempts to tame occult powers, so as to place them at one's service and have a supernatural power over others — even if this were for the sake of restoring their health — are gravely contrary to the virtue of religion" (No. 2117).

 

[marygaspe]

Since you are so interested, fine. I believe paganism is one of the most dangerous cults in today's multi-religious world. It leads to spiritual emptiness and the influence of evil. It tends to attract weak-minded teenagers who are spiritually vacant and are seeking a means to feel powerful. What they do not realize is that dabbling in the occult can lead to demonic dangers. And before you lump the lot in, I am referring specifically to the neo-pagan, new age mumbo-jumbo that has become so popular since the 1980's. I stand exactly where you'd expect me to stand, with the Church in this matter. The Catechism of the Catholic Church states, "All practices of magic or sorcery, by which one attempts to tame occult powers, so as to place them at one's service and have a supernatural power over others — even if this were for the sake of restoring their health — are gravely contrary to the virtue of religion" (No. 2117).

Indeed! Couldn't agree more. When my kids were teenagers, my middle son played around with paganism. He was around 16 at the time and I found a Quiji board under his bed and several magic books. I threw the lot out, of course, and his father and I made it quite clear that this sort of material would never be permitted in our house.

 

[MikeyDB]

Hey Marygaspe and Sanctus could get together and burn pagans.....a good couple of good Christian folk out for an evenings entertainment. Nothing new for the Catholic Church, torture and murder have been employed by these good god fearing men since Belezebub squeezed this religion out of his large colon....

Be careful marygaspe sometimes you get what you wish for....

 

[sanctus]

Hey Marygaspe and Sanctus could get together and burn pagans.....a good couple of good Christian folk out for an evenings entertainment. Nothing new for the Catholic Church, torture and murder have been employed by these good god fearing men since Belezebub squeezed this religion out of his large colon....

Be careful marygaspe sometimes you get what you wish for....

You would deny the parents, any parents, the right to raise their children according to ther preferred religious beliefs? Her description is not terrible, and is well in line with all parents decisions on how to raise their own kids.I know parents that will not allow their children exposure to Catholic material, I suspect that would be fine with you.

 

[Vereya]

Since you are so interested, fine. I believe paganism is one of the most dangerous cults in today's multi-religious world. It leads to spiritual emptiness and the influence of evil. It tends to attract weak-minded teenagers who are spiritually vacant and are seeking a means to feel powerful. What they do not realize is that dabbling in the occult can lead to demonic dangers. And before you lump the lot in, I am referring specifically to the neo-pagan, new age mumbo-jumbo that has become so popular since the 1980's. I stand exactly where you'd expect me to stand, with the Church in this matter. The Catechism of the Catholic Church states, "All practices of magic or sorcery, by which one attempts to tame occult powers, so as to place them at one's service and have a supernatural power over others — even if this were for the sake of restoring their health — are gravely contrary to the virtue of religion" (No. 2117).

I absolutely agree with you, Sanctus. Dabbling in the occult can lead to demonic dangers, indeed. And it does lead you christians there, that is true. What you term "occult" and "Satanic" is just the knack of living in harmony with the Nature, of not forcing our will upon the World, but listening quietly and humbly to the World's moving, observing its ways, and behaving in accordance with them. For example, being a Pagan, I have now reached a stage when I can predict the future events that are going to happen to me. Is this occultism? Is this evil and satanic? And I use no chrystal balls, no Tarot cards to do it. I just can do it, because my eyes are now open to see the actual world around, and not the picture of it that I have made up in my mind, my ears are open to hear what people are saying to me, and not what I want to hear.
And, by the way, I have encountered nothing so occult and demonic in character, as the ritual of baptism, performed by the christian church. Can you tell me, Sanctus, the official explanation for why it is most often performed on a tiny baby? I can give YOU my explanation, but I want to hear YOU, first.

 

[sanctus]

Can you tell me, Sanctus, the official explanation for why it is most often performed on a tiny baby? I can give YOU my explanation, but I want to hear YOU, first.

The first thing that should be pointed out is that child baptism is a tradition of the early church with evidence going all the way back to the first century, and there is certainly no quarrel about the practice in the early church. The first explicit doctrinal pronouncement on the question occurred at the Council of Carthage in 418 A.D., which affirmed the long-time practice of the necessity of baptism for the remission of the punishment due to original sin, which necessarily includes not only adults but children as well.

The notion of infant initiation is certainly not an innovation of the Catholic Church. For two thousand years, God had established the covenant with Abraham and his offspring which always had included infants. God made it explicit that the covenant with Abraham would not just be with him or his fellow adults. God's covenant promise included infants: "This is My covenant, which you shall keep, between Me and you and your descendants after you; every male among you shall be circumcised. And you shall be circumcised in the flesh of your foreskin; and it shall be the sign of the covenant between Me and you. And every male among you who is eight days old shall be circumcised throughout your generations… " (Genesis 17:10-12).

The New Testament itself provides compelling, if not conclusive. evidence for infant baptism in light of the continuation of this household covenant. In fact, the secular Greek word for 'household' is rendered "oikos", which included children. The baptisms of whole households provide this support, for it is logical that at least one of these households included infants [Stephanus' household (Cf. 1 Corinthians 1:16), Lydia's household (Cf. Acts 16:15), the Jailer's household (Cf. Acts 16:33), and Crispus' household (Cf. Acts 18:8)].

 

[MikeyDB]

Inculcating fear and establishing prejudice by conditioning children to believe in "this" spiritual entity while denouncing and demonizing "that" spiritual entity might be your idea of balance child-rearing I'd understand...

Like the church loves to substitute moral hypocrisy for reason the manipulation of children by fear whether that's fear of displeasing a vengeful angry god or the loving forgiving god...isn't any more noble an undertaking that teaching children to fear black people and despise homosexuals and women...

One of the major criticism I have of every church not just the Cathoic variety is that the damage you people do to children when they're growing up very frequently remains a burden to them for the rest of their lives....

 

[sanctus]

Inculcating fear and establishing prejudice by conditioning children to believe in "this" spiritual entity while denouncing and demonizing "that" spiritual entity might be your idea of balance child-rearing I'd understand...

Like the church loves to substitute moral hypocrisy for reason the manipulation of children by fear whether that's fear of displeasing a vengeful angry god or the loving forgiving god...isn't any more noble an undertaking that teaching children to fear black people and despise homosexuals and women...

One of the major criticism I have of every church not just the Cathoic variety is that the damage you people do to children when they're growing up very frequently remains a burden to them for the rest of their lives....

Nonsense. there is nothing morally incorrect about parents determining to raise their children in their chosen faith group, be it Catholic or whatever. That is the choice of all parents. There is nothing in the teachings of the church which causes harm to children. In fact, studies indicate that children raised with a religious background tend to have a better understanding of moral behaviour.

 

[MikeyDB]

Maybe your morality Mr. I'm superior to everyone because I believe in god...." sorry "I believe in the one and only true god..."

Your morality is demonstrated everytime an African child is born with AIDS

Keep your sanctimonious crap morality for the believers....

 

[canadarocks]

Maybe your morality Mr. I'm superior to everyone because I believe in god...." sorry "I believe in the one and only true god..."

Your morality is demonstrated everytime an African child is born with AIDS

Keep your sanctimonious crap morality for the believers....

I'm not catholic, or even terribly religious, but to be fair I hardly think the Catholic Church is to blame for African children with AIDS. And frankly, I agree on one area with Sanctus, parents do have the right, maybe even the responsibility, to raise their children in whatever faith group they belong to.In fact, it's kind of normal, wouldn't you agree? Most parents who go to any church or mosque or whatever are obviously interested in teaching their children their faith.

 

[canadarocks]

Inculcating fear and establishing prejudice by conditioning children to believe in "this" spiritual entity while denouncing and demonizing "that" spiritual entity might be your idea of balance child-rearing I'd understand...

Like the church loves to substitute moral hypocrisy for reason the manipulation of children by fear whether that's fear of displeasing a vengeful angry god or the loving forgiving god...isn't any more noble an undertaking that teaching children to fear black people and despise homosexuals and women...

One of the major criticism I have of every church not just the Cathoic variety is that the damage you people do to children when they're growing up very frequently remains a burden to them for the rest of their lives....

You're being silly, if I may say so. Parents have a right to raise their kids in any way they want, even if christian. You would expect otherwise?

 

[MikeyDB]

No the Catholic Church won't support birth control in the midst of the greatest plague in modern times. An organization that could do something right where the rubber meets the road has failed to respond with sex education and direct intervention becuse that's the doctrine of the "Church".

And no people don't have a right to raise their children any-way-they-like, as a society we've declared that there are expectations that parents have to meet. Jehovah Witnesses and the Roman Catholic Church share the commonality of teaching their children that some human practices are to be embraced while others avoided... As a prudent parent that's right on the money..but to establish a structure of morality based on "beliefs" that children will eventually identify as lies and hypocrisy is hardly the behavior of loving parents.

 

[mapleleafgirl]

No the Catholic Church won't support birth control in the midst of the greatest plague in modern times. An organization that could do something right where the rubber meets the road has failed to respond with sex education and direct intervention becuse that's the doctrine of the "Church".

And no people don't have a right to raise their children any-way-they-like, as a society we've declared that there are expectations that parents have to meet. Jehovah Witnesses and the Roman Catholic Church share the commonality of teaching their children that some human practices are to be embraced while others avoided... As a prudent parent that's right on the money..but to establish a structure of morality based on "beliefs" that children will eventually identify as lies and hypocrisy is hardly the behavior of loving parents.

youre wacked. who are you to tell parents how to raise children anyway? if theyre catholic or whatever, its their right. you dont have to agree, but you cant stop people raising their children how they want. and i think youre going too far to say parents arent loving cos they dont do what you want them to.

 

[mapleleafgirl]

Since you are so interested, fine. I believe paganism is one of the most dangerous cults in today's multi-religious world. It leads to spiritual emptiness and the influence of evil. It tends to attract weak-minded teenagers who are spiritually vacant and are seeking a means to feel powerful. What they do not realize is that dabbling in the occult can lead to demonic dangers. And before you lump the lot in, I am referring specifically to the neo-pagan, new age mumbo-jumbo that has become so popular since the 1980's. I stand exactly where you'd expect me to stand, with the Church in this matter. The Catechism of the Catholic Church states, "All practices of magic or sorcery, by which one attempts to tame occult powers, so as to place them at one's service and have a supernatural power over others — even if this were for the sake of restoring their health — are gravely contrary to the virtue of religion" (No. 2117).

is there a difference between paganism and withccraft and satanism?

 

[MikeyDB]

Mapleleafgirl

I was one of the people who picked up the pieces after an embarassing number of Canadian parents failed their children. Parents who taught their children to "believe" not to learn to understand to interact with the world that faces each of us daily but to put their "faith" in a Church that has abused them lied to them and demonstrated acceptance of homophobia and intolerance for this person or that person ....forgetting that when you establish a climate of fear...of introspection predicated on how sinful bad and unworthy you are unless you subscribe to this or that mysticism....there will be consequences. I worked closely for many years with Roman Catholic Children's Aid out of Toronto and I can't begin to tell you the number of times MSW's and workers annointed in the faith abbrogatted their responsibilities and did more harm to the children in their care than any number of years living on the streets could accomplish...

While the Catholic Church hides pedophiles and lies to its people by moving criminals around to avoid prosecution, while anxiety disorders and dissociative disorders wreck havoc on families while self-doubts and dependencies generated out of the mysticism and voodoo of the Chatholic Church, you and people like you forget that everyone pays eventually....

 

[MikeyDB]

And by the way Mapleleafgirl....

I haven't really sparred with our good friend Sanctus because there's very little point in arguing with someone not merely living in denial, but championing denial and scurrying about poking fingers in a dam that's springing more leaks every minute...

I've simply gotten tired of the endless posting of media minutia and the obscure being used as a platform for Catholic proselytizing...

 

[sanctus]

Mapleleafgirl

I was one of the people who picked up the pieces after an embarassing number of Canadian parents failed their children. Parents who taught their children to "believe" not to learn to understand to interact with the world that faces each of us daily but to put their "faith" in a Church that has abused them lied to them and demonstrated acceptance of homophobia and intolerance for this person or that person ....forgetting that when you establish a climate of fear...of introspection predicated on how sinful bad and unworthy you are unless you subscribe to this or that mysticism....there will be consequences. I worked closely for many years with Roman Catholic Children's Aid out of Toronto and I can't begin to tell you the number of times MSW's and workers annointed in the faith abbrogatted their responsibilities and did more harm to the children in their care than any number of years living on the streets could accomplish...

While the Catholic Church hides pedophiles and lies to its people by moving criminals around to avoid prosecution, while anxiety disorders and dissociative disorders wreck havoc on families while self-doubts and dependencies generated out of the mysticism and voodoo of the Chatholic Church, you and people like you forget that everyone pays eventually....

The old boogiemen resurreected. Blame the church for the behaviour of some of its people. I would say these workers were responsible first to God and acted accordingly as consistent with their beliefs. The only alternative is to outlaw Catholicism. Otherwise, we have a perfect right to educate our membership in what we believe to be true.

 

[MikeyDB]

What possible use is a Church that teaches its congregation and those working under the aegis of the Roman Catholic Chilren's Aid Society that we...we the journeymen of the Church can dispense with duty or obligation to people...our primary obligation is to god.. and we will answer to god and god alone...while the damage done to people right here right now in the real world has repercussions that span whole communities and across generations? You may be satisfied to believe you're not accountable to people but you are... and the injustices you and your church committed and continue to commit will eventually come back to haunt you...god or no god...

 

[MikeyDB]

On second thought outlawing Catholicism if possible is probably the better alternative...