The mystery of sunspots

[eanassir]

Ok, the surface temperature of the sun is a blistering 6000K, and that is just the optical surface. Long before a "rock" even got near the sun it would vaporize.

But not in case the rock or meteorite is of a considerable size; it may take some time at least until it may vaporize, specially when it comes with an extreme speed because of the tremendous gravitation of the sun.

Flux tubes breach the surface of the sun due to fluid and magnetic convection.

There are also various instabilities which drive the field lines out of the surface.

It is a highly dynamic situation.

The butterfly diagram alone should be enough to convince you that these aren't caused by rocks, ignoring the fact that rocks would melt.

One would need some highly specialized mechanism for launching rocks into the sun with such regularity that you can reproduce the period and the latitudinal migration.

I see that you speak with much confidence and certainty about subjects that are only a matter of discussion and research. The Sun is so far and so hot and bright, that they even cannot study and check unless from far away and by indirect ways and deduction. All such explanations are not 100% facts.

eanassir

http://universeandquran.741.com​

 

[Dexter Sinister]

God is All-Knowing and Truthful; His words are true; ​

If you're going to use a deity as the basis of a scientific argument, you'll have to demonstrate in terms acceptable to scientific inquiry that he exists and has the characteristics you ascribe to him.

 

[Tonington]

I see that you speak with much confidence and certainty about subjects that are only a matter of discussion and research. The Sun is so far and so hot and bright, that they even cannot study and check unless from far away and by indirect ways and deduction. All such explanations are not 100% facts.

It's really funny when someone uses a religious text as proof, and then decries science for not dealing in such certainties. Your own interpretations have been shown numerous times, in this Science & Environment sub-forum no less, to be anything but 100% factual.

I happen to know that Niflmir is working on his Ph.D. On what topic? Magnetohydrodynamics. I think I'll trust his working knowledge over your unverified ramblings.

Is there anything in your book or imagination, that explains the regular cycles of these sunspots? Or for that matter, have you happened across any images that shows the impacts?

 

[eanassir]

Niflmir is working on his Ph.D. On what topic? Magnetohydrodynamics.

With my respect to the Ph.D. and researches of Niflmir, and the fact that he is genius as he said, I ask him about what he said in a previous reply:
"
Flux tubes breach the surface of the sun due to fluid and magnetic convection.

There are also various instabilities which drive the field lines out of the surface.

It is a highly dynamic situation.

The butterfly diagram alone should be enough to convince you that these aren't caused by rocks, ignoring the fact that rocks would melt.

One would need some highly specialized mechanism for launching rocks into the sun with such regularity that you can reproduce the period and the latitudinal migration. "

Are these 100% proved scientifically, and are the explanations that he gave certain as facts or there is discussion and debate about such things?

 

[eanassir]

If you're going to use a deity as the basis of a scientific argument, you'll have to demonstrate in terms acceptable to scientific inquiry that he exists and has the characteristics you ascribe to him.

I can tell others that God is One with no equal, peer or associate, and has no wife, son or daughters. This is the essence of all the heavenly religion. (And I swear to this). Anyone, that does not hold fast with this First of all the Commandments of God; anyone like this will be a loser, and will regret when he will die and go to his next world.​

And to believe in all the apostles and prophets including Moses, Jesus and Mohammed, and to believe in all the heavenly books: including the Torah (included in the Old Testament), the Gospel and the Quran revealed to Prophet Mohammed. (And I swear to this.) Or else man will lose – in case he discriminates between the apostles of God: so that he will believe in some and disbelieve in some others.​

But in case one wrangles concerning God's existence, this will be the most grievous loss; because God's existence is more real than man's existence. (And I swear to this.) ​

Such a man: the atheist, will not respond to any logic or proof. Mostly he will not respond; because he does not want to believe, and will follow some ways like: has the hen come from the egg, or is it the egg that has come from the hen, and will go circling in this vicious circle. But of course there should have been an initial hen that would have started all this chain. ​

Many philosophies that deny God the Creator, are mysterious and complex; and they say: that none has understood the philosophy of such and such philosophers, but even though many will follow such philosophies without understanding them.​

It is a matter of guidance; God guides the one that deserves to be guided: whether he be educated and graduated or he be ignorant and illiterate. Anyone worthy of guidance (being modest, not proud; kind-hearted to orphans, widows and poor people) then God will guide him. But anyone proud over people, and does not help the weak for the sake of God, then God will make him hard-hearted, and will leave him to devils to confound him. ​

About some atheists who deny God and say: there is no god, and things are going on spontaneously, and we live our life then die and there is nothing after death; here God – be glorified – said in the Quran 45: 24​

وَقَالُوا مَا هِيَ إِلَّا حَيَاتُنَا الدُّنْيَا نَمُوتُ وَنَحْيَا وَمَا يُهْلِكُنَا إِلَّا الدَّهْرُ وَمَا لَهُم بِذَلِكَ مِنْ عِلْمٍ إِنْ هُمْ إِلَّا يَظُنُّونَ​

The explanation: (They say: "There is nothing but our [present] Worldly life; we die and our [children] live, and nothing but Time [factors] destroy us." Of that they have no knowledge, they merely conjecture.)​

When man truly wants to believe, then let him ask God to guide him, and He will guide him if He please; like Prophet Abraham when he searched about his Lord, and he said as in the Quran 6: 77​

فَلَمَّا رَأَى الْقَمَرَ بَازِغًا قَالَ هَذَا رَبِّي فَلَمَّا أَفَلَ قَالَ لَئِن لَّمْ يَهْدِنِي رَبِّي لأكُونَنَّ مِنَ الْقَوْمِ الضَّالِّينَ ​

The explanation: (When he saw the moon rising, he said: "This is my Lord." But when it set, he said: "If my Lord does not guide me, I shall surely be of the people gone astray.")
And God – be glorified – sent to him the angel telling him who is his Glorious Lord –be celebrated His praise.​

eanassir
http://universeandquran.741.com
http://man-after-death.741.com
http://quranandhebrewbible.t35.com​

 

[Tonington]

Are these 100% proved scientifically, and are the explanations that he gave certain as facts or there is discussion and debate about such things?

What does your book say about them? Any mention of them? Probably not, because it's not a textbook.

You're writing this nonsense in the Science & Environment sub-forum, from an antithetical source as far as science is concerned. Niflmir's explanation might as well be 100% compared to the nonsense about rocks from Venus. How does your explanation explain the period of the solar cycle?

See those peaks and valley's?

 

[Dexter Sinister]

I can tell others that God is One with no equal, peer or associate... ​

Yes, you can claim anything you want. Can you demonstrate that it's true? No you can't.

God's existence is more real than man's existence. (And I swear to this.)

Such a man: the atheist, will not respond to any logic or proof. Mostly he will not respond; because he does not want to believe...

Wrong again, as usual. If you had any logic or proof , that's exactly what I'd respond to, and I *would* like to believe, as I once did, it would be very comforting in some ways, though it also raises some thorny philosophical issues like the problem of evil, which really has no satisfactory resolution if you postulate an omnipotent, omniscient, benevolent deity. But you don't have any logic or proof. Swear all you want, to whatever you want, that's not evidence, logic, or proof. All you have is logical fallacies, like the argument from authority, the argument from popularity, the argument from antiquity, and the argument from ignorance (and others), plus anecdotal evidence, which is worth exactly nothing, and self-serving interpretations of various emotional states that can be readily invoked by electrochemical stimulation of the brain. You've got nothing that can withstand even elementary skeptical inspection.

And just in case you're in any doubt, I'll make my position explicit. There is no evidence or logic you can offer in support your god's existence that doesn't apply equally well to any of the thousands of other deities humanity has invented, and obviously you don't believe in any of them. God is entirely a human invention, a fiction, and when you truly understand why you don't believe in any of those other gods, you'll understand that yours is a fraud too, and you're deluding yourself.
​

 

[eanassir]

What does your book say about them? Any mention of them? Probably not, because it's not a textbook.

You're writing this nonsense in the Science & Environment sub-forum, from an antithetical source as far as science is concerned. Niflmir's explanation might as well be 100% compared to the nonsense about rocks from Venus. How does your explanation explain the period of the solar cycle?

See those peaks and valley's?

I am not specialized in this field; in truth I tell you I don't understand much of such diagrams and details; I don't want to wrangle with scientists and Astronomers in their field of specialty. Only I displayed the idea.

But I see that such subjects are not fully solved and understood, and Astronomers themselves admit it. To the astronomer and scientist, it is not advantageous to insist on something that is debatable, and may have other explanations.

Moreover, it is not my book; I haven't written this book "The Universe and the Quran"; it was written by the late interpreter of the Quran and the Bible.

In case such spots are periodic, and are increasing by time: they may indicate that the sun is loosing heat, and the surface of the sun is about to convert to a thin crust, and these spots are like islets of colder material on the surface of the sun; but the thing is not like that – in spite of the fact that the sun has lost some of its heat and relatively it has become colder than before – if this explanation is true, then the sunspots may not disappear, but will increase in density and area and size until all the sun surface will convert to a thin crust as it will do in the future.
This is in this book:
[ The mistake of Astronomers concerning sunspots :] ​

http://universeandquran.741.com/new_page_4.htm#MistakeaboutSunspots
"I say that these spots are not the result of the putting out of the sun or its ageing, even though the sun, indeed, has become old, but these spots are, actually, some meteorites and celestial rocks pulled – by gravitation of the sun – from the space. The indication of that lies in:
(1)They disappear after few days when they will not be seen [afterwards], because the sun has swallowed them. If, really, these spots were due to the putting out of the sun, then they must increase a day after another until all the surface of the sun will be put out, when its Doomsday will take place.
(2)These spots are not seen by people at the present time only, but people saw them in the ancient times, when the astronomers observed them, as it is mentioned in books and history."

"The genuine reason for the future putting out of the sun is the large number of the meteorites and celestial rocks which have been swallowed by the sun, so that its density will increase and its surface will cool leading to the formation of an earthy crust."

I don't want to show non-respect to any scientist and astronomer, including you and Niflmir and others; on the contrary I much respect and admire their researches and opinions and morale. I, many times, talked with them and you through this forum, and it is much delightful and dear to me that I talked with you and Dr. Niflmir, with best regards to both of you.

eanassir
http://universeandquran.741.com​

 

[eanassir]

the problem of evil, which really has no satisfactory resolution if you postulate an omnipotent, omniscient, benevolent deity.​

What do you exactly mean?

​

​

​

the thousands of other deities humanity has invented, ​

​

Thousands of other deities humanity has invented:
Apart from God – be glorified – there is no other god in the universe; He is the Creator, the Almighty.

Other idols are only false and invented statues to which they gave names when in fact it is only vanity and falsehood.

This is like what Prophet Joseph said, as in the Quran 12: 39-40​

يَا صَاحِبَيِ السِّجْنِ أَأَرْبَابٌ مُّتَفَرِّقُونَ خَيْرٌ أَمِ اللّهُ الْوَاحِدُ الْقَهَّارُ ؟ مَا تَعْبُدُونَ مِن دُونِهِ إِلاَّ أَسْمَاء سَمَّيْتُمُوهَا أَنتُمْ وَآبَآؤُكُم مَّا أَنزَلَ اللّهُ بِهَا مِن سُلْطَانٍ إِنِ الْحُكْمُ إِلاَّ لِلّهِ أَمَرَ أَلاَّ تَعْبُدُواْ إِلاَّ إِيَّاهُ ذَلِكَ الدِّينُ الْقَيِّمُ وَلَـكِنَّ أَكْثَرَ النَّاسِ لاَ يَعْلَمُونَ ​

The explanation: ("O my two fellow-prisoners, which is better: many differing lords or God: the One, the Omnipotent?"
"Apart from Him, you worship none other than names you have named, you and your fathers, concerning which God has not sent down any authority. The decision is up to God only. He has commanded that none other than He should be worshipped. That is the religion of [Jacob] the guardian, but most of people do not know [the truth.]"

The interpretation:
"My two comrades in the prison, which is better: many differing lords or gods made of wood, stone and silver which neither profit nor harm; or God: the One, the Omnipotent Who gives life and causes death, and everything is by His hand?"
"Apart from Him, you worship none other than names you have named, you and your fathers, concerning which God has not revealed any authority." It means: the idols that you made out of wood and stone, which you serve, and you gave them names; these are false names which have no reality and meaningless; and which God did not command – in any heavenly book – that they should be worshipped. The decision of the worship is up to God only. He has commanded that none other than He should be worshipped. Such is the religion of [Jacob] the guardian [on his people and his sons], but most of people do not know [the truth.]"

eanassir
http://man-after-death.741.com​

 

[Dexter Sinister]

What do you exactly mean?

You've never heard of The Problem of Evil? You *are* an innocent. It's a major religious and philosophical issue that's been around for thousands of years. It's simply this: how can there be a benevolent, omniscient, omnipotent god when there's so much evil in the world? The problem arises if you hold god to be all-knowing, all-powerful, and all-good. In the simplest possible terms, god is almighty and anything he might do is not at all difficult for him, everything is effortless, he could instantly stop any child's pain, and if he's so good, why doesn't he? If he's so good and powerful, he would be bound to prevent evil and do good. Yet obviously there are many occasions on which he does not do good, when he could effortlessly prevent monstrous evils from happening, but apparently he chooses not to. Huge intellectual efforts have been devoted to explaining that, but if you take the atheist position, the problem evaporates.

Apart from God – be glorified – there is no other god in the universe; He is the Creator, the Almighty.

Yeah yeah, everybody says that about their own version of god, at least since monotheism supplanted polytheism. But the fact remains: there is no evidence or argument you can offer in support of Allah's existence that doesn't apply equally well to any other god humanity's invented. Thor and Zeus and Apollo and all the rest of them had believers in their day just as convinced as you are, for no better reasons than you are. They were deluded, and so are you. God is a fiction.

 

[eanassir]

how can there be a benevolent, omniscient, omnipotent god when there's so much evil in the world? The problem arises if you hold god to be all-knowing, all-powerful, and all-good. In the simplest possible terms, god is almighty and anything he might do is not at all difficult for him, everything is effortless, he could instantly stop any child's pain, and if he's so good, why doesn't he? If he's so good and powerful, he would be bound to prevent evil and do good. Yet obviously there are many occasions on which he does not do good, when he could effortlessly prevent monstrous evils from happening, but apparently he chooses not to.

The problem of evil:

When man is born by his mother, and he comes to this material World; as an infant, he does not know anything, then he starts to acquire experiences and acquaintance about the surroundings and the people around him, then his knowledge and experience will gradually increase until he reaches 40 years of age, when his mind will be mature and his experience will be complete.

If he does not experience the pain, he will not know what the pain is, and if he does not experience the tiredness, he will not recognize the rest, and likewise the fear, the hunger, the need …etc.

Example: there is a hereditary disease called Syringomyelia; its pathology is in the spinal cord; it leads to loss of the pain and thermal or heat sensation; this will ultimately lead to loss of some parts of the fingers of the hand and the toes of the foot, because the patient does not feel the pain so he will have many trauma to which he is not sensitive and will have burns to which he is not aware.

Man is created for the next spiritual world, not for this temporary material World; here he lives for some decades as an average, while in the next world he will live forever as a soul which is a true copy of his material body. In the present World, he is in a primary school, but when he goes to the next world he will be in a secondary school or college where his knowledge will surpass his knowledge in this World.

If man persevere patiently and forbear and think with a sound insight, he will find that whatever distress he may have in this World, may be beneficial for him, in case he be patient, not a blasphemer against his Lord.

Example: When he was young, he loved a girl very much, and prayed God to give him that girl for a wife, but God did not give her to him, and he became sad, and said: why is that? But if he knows, this will be better for him: because he loved that girl so much, and will obey her, and she will quarrel with his mother and he will be with that girl against his mother; and will be punished for that. Or that girl is an atheist or evil-doer or idolater sanctifying statues and idols; she will invite him to her ways and make that fair seeming to him; and he will follow her doctrine and will lose in the next world and on the Judgment Day.

Another example: Once he had a little child, and his child died, so he became sad, and might say words of blasphemy; but if he be patient and is a monotheist that does not associate anyone with God, then God will admit this man to Paradise, where he will find his child alive there and will be glad with him; and no man will have his own child in Paradise except such man that his child died in this World; like Prophet Mohammed whose all children died, and was sad, specially for his son Abraham; he wept, and said: "The eye weeps and the heart is sad, but we never say any words that God is not pleased with."

Therefore, God – be exalted – said in the Quran 21: 35​

كُلُّ نَفْسٍ ذَائِقَةُ الْمَوْتِ وَنَبْلُوكُم بِالشَّرِّ وَالْخَيْرِ فِتْنَةً وَإِلَيْنَا تُرْجَعُونَ​

The explanation: (Every soul shall taste of death; and We try you with evil and good for a testing, then unto Us you shall be returned.)

The interpretation:
= (Every soul shall taste) [the pain] (of death
= (and We try you with evil [one time] and [with] good [another time])
= (in a way of testing or trial) [so that We may see will you persevere and have patience in the time of distress, and will you be grateful in the time of prosperity, or else you will be ungrateful and blaspheme;]
= (then unto Us you shall be returned) after your death, and We shall reward each one of you according to your patience and gratefulness, or according to your ungratefulness and blasphemy.

eanassir
http://man-after-death.741.com​

 

[eanassir]

Thor and Zeus and Apollo and all the rest of them had believers in their day just as convinced as you are, for no better reasons than you are.

God is the Creator, the Omnipotent, the Omniscient.
God in called "God" in English, and the same Allah in Arabic, Jehovah or Yahweh in Hebrew, Khodah in Persian and in other languages may be named by other names.
He is the Creator; this should not be mixed with the idols of the polytheism who made many idols or gods like god of the heaven, god of the peace, god of the war, god of the love…etc.
All peoples knew God Almighty, the Creator; but they associated with Him other gods of their invention: this is the idolatry, the polytheism or the association of other gods or associates with God.
Example: Once a king of the ancient Greek went in a campaign, then, in his absence, his son and wife were enslaved and abased, and he lost his kingdom, his hosts, his war-ships, and he himself was floating in the sea on a board of wood; and in this situation, he called on his Lord: "What do you want from me? [Glory be to God] You took from me the kingdom, my hosts, my ships!" His Lord said: "I don't want anything from you, but you should know that I am your Master; to Me you must resort; and now having turned to Me and asked forgiveness, I shall restore for you your kingdom, and everything." And He gave him all that and he returned once again to be the king and killed his enemies. This god is God Almighty; although he called Him by another Greek name. But the other multiple idols and gods are inventory. The apostles came for the purpose of turning people from the idolatry, polytheism and association with God to the monotheism and serving God alone. ​

This in the Quran 21: 25​

وَمَا أَرْسَلْنَا مِن قَبْلِكَ مِن رَّسُولٍ إِلَّا نُوحِي إِلَيْهِ أَنَّهُ لَا إِلَهَ إِلَّا أَنَا فَاعْبُدُونِ​

The explanation: (We never sent any messenger [to his people] before you [Mohammed], unless We revealed to him [saying]: "There is no god [in the universe] but I [: God]; so [O people] serve Me [alone.]")​

eanassir
http://man-after-death.741.com​

 

[Dexter Sinister]

The explanation: (Every soul shall taste of death; and We try you with evil and good for a testing, then unto Us you shall be returned.)

That doesn't solve it. It's inconceivable and incoherent to think that an all-knowing deity would run a test. The only reason to run a test is to find out something you don't know.

 

[eanassir]

That doesn't solve it. It's inconceivable and incoherent to think that an all-knowing deity would run a test. The only reason to run a test is to find out something you don't know. [/font][/size]

God know everything, but if, e.g. he admits someone to Hell, he will say: What did I do so that You have admitted me to Hell, and what did that person do so that You have admitted him to Paradise? Therefore He tries them to expose how they will react and behave.

Example: Satan (Ibliess) was together with angels in Paradise; his name was Azazil; he was a chief among them; he saw himself in that situation and conceived pride and self-conceit, so God gathered all angels, and said to them: I am going to create a new human race other than the three already present, so when I complete his creation, then all of you, according to My command, fall prostrate before Adam whom I shall create from putrid black organic substance (decayed corpse with offensive and very bad smell); therefore, all the angels fell prostrate before Adam except Satan Ibliess); he refused because of his pride; so God drove him away from Paradise.

But if God drive him out of the Garden and punished him, without this trial; then Satan will say: What have I done to deserve this? But God made this trial to expose that.
This is in the Quran, 7: 12​

قَالَ مَا مَنَعَكَ أَلاَّ تَسْجُدَ إِذْ أَمَرْتُكَ قَالَ أَنَاْ خَيْرٌ مِّنْهُ خَلَقْتَنِي مِن نَّارٍ وَخَلَقْتَهُ مِن طِينٍ​

The explanation: ([God] said [to Iblies]: "What is that prevented you from prostrating yourself [before Adam] when I commanded you [to do so]?" [Iblies] said: "I am better than he; [for] You created me from fire, and him You created out of clay.")


eanassir
http://man-after-death.741.com​

 

[Dexter Sinister]

Therefore He tries them to expose how they will react and behave.

Expose it to whom? It can't be to himself, he already knows how they'll react and behave. It can only be to expose them to themselves. But what's the point in that? It's not going to make any difference on who goes to Hell and who gets to Paradise. Doesn't make sense that a perfect being would create such flawed creatures on purpose. If he wants us to be a certain way, he could have made us that way in the first place, populated Paradise with us, and skipped all the messy and painful business of this life. It's not teaching him anything. He is by definition incapable of learning anything, he already knows it all, and I can't see that it's helping us either. If I find myself in Hell in the next life, it's not going to help me to know why I'm there, I'm not getting out.

The whole concept of an omniscient, omnipotent, benevolent god who'd create us and then condemn certain of us to Hell is completely incoherent. I can't see how he can possibly exist.

 

[eanassir]

Expose it to whom? It can't be to himself, he already knows how they'll react and behave. It can only be to expose them to themselves. But what's the point in that?

I mean to verify that practically; God knows everything; He knows that that man will commit a murder, for example, but it is impossible that such man may be responsible unless he will commit such an act. In case he has not done it yet, how can he be considered as committing that deed?​

Example: Prophet Job was tried, and he succeeded in the examination; God found him verified him practically) forbearing patiently. This is in the Quran 38: 44​

إِنَّا وَجَدْنَاهُ صَابِرًا نِعْمَ الْعَبْدُ إِنَّهُ أَوَّابٌ​

The explanation: ( We found him full of patience and forbearance; how excellent a slave [of God, Job was]; he was ever turning [to God.] )​

While Adam failed according to the Quran 20: 115​

وَلَقَدْ عَهِدْنَا إِلَى آدَمَ مِن قَبْلُ فَنَسِيَ وَلَمْ نَجِدْ لَهُ عَزْمًا​

The explanation: (We did take the covenant of Adam before, but he forgot [the warning of God]: and on his part We did not find any firm determination.)​

And there are many other instances where God said in the Quran that He found such a prophet having no patience or some people he found them without commitment to their covenant.​

eanassir
http://man-after-death.741.com​

 

[eanassir]

Doesn't make sense that a perfect being would create such flawed creatures on purpose. If he wants us to be a certain way, he could have made us that way in the first place, populated Paradise with us, and skipped all the messy and painful business of this life.

The purpose from this material World:​

• The growth of the soul will be completed inside the material body, to which it is a true ethereal copy; without the material body, the soul cannot be formed, and will not grow to become a mature man.

The soul
Moreover, the spiritual beings and objects are the result of this material World; because the matter is like a mould for formation of the ethereal or spiritual world.
In other words: the spiritual beings had lived in the material world in the past, then died and became ethereal or spiritual beings.​

• Man will gradually acquire – during his Worldly life – complete mind, experience and conduct.
• He will recognize his Creator, and choose his way: either to be grateful or ungrateful.

God created the planets obedient to His law which He inserted in the universe; He created the bee to carry out her daily work in this well-known order, and He inspired her by the instinct to follow certain systemized ways; this is in the Quran 16: 68-69 ​

وَأَوْحَى رَبُّكَ إِلَى النَّحْلِ أَنِ اتَّخِذِي مِنَ الْجِبَالِ بُيُوتًا وَمِنَ الشَّجَرِ وَمِمَّا يَعْرِشُونَ. ثُمَّ كُلِي مِن كُلِّ الثَّمَرَاتِ فَاسْلُكِي سُبُلَ رَبِّكِ ذُلُلاً ...​

The explanation: (And your Lord [O Mohammed] inspired the bee [saying]: "Take to habitations] in the hills, in the trees and in the hives which they make.
Then eat of all fruits, and follow – submissive – the ways of your Lord…)​

While He created man and gave him the reason, the free will and the choice.
In case He created man like the bee, he will not have such merit or virtue.

This is in the Quran 76: 2-3 ​

إِنَّا خَلَقْنَا الْإِنسَانَ مِن نُّطْفَةٍ أَمْشَاجٍ نَّبْتَلِيهِ فَجَعَلْنَاهُ سَمِيعًا بَصِيرًا . إِنَّا هَدَيْنَاهُ السَّبِيلَ إِمَّا شَاكِرًا وَإِمَّا كَفُورًا​

The explanation: (We have created man from a scanty [seminal] fluid with sperms, mixed [with the ovum of woman], to try him [to see whether he comply to, or rebel against, Our commands], and have made him hear and see.
We have shown to him the [correct] way; [and have given to him the choice] whether to be grateful or ungrateful.)​

eanassir
http://man-after-death.741.com​

 

[Dexter Sinister]

I you hadn't been the originator of this thread I wouldn't have taken part in this sustained hijack of the subject; we're a long way from sunspots...

It seems to me that you're trying to make the following argument: this all-knowing, all-powerful, benevolent and perfect deity creates us flawed creatures, holds us responsible for those flaws, and demands that we rise above them under threat of eternal damnation, while knowing all along exactly how things will turn out for everybody. And somehow this is a good thing and makes some kind of sense. It's not, and it doesn't, quite apart from what strikes me as the ludicrously illogical claim that a perfect being would want or need creatures like us--or any sort of creature, really--to worship him in the first place.

 

[Lester]

Dexter: You really have a lot of patience-I would have snapped a long time ago.

Eanassir: you should take your thoughts to a more suitable thread(religion) where all the other religious types can hang out and discuss fairy tales about how the sun will eventually break into 19 pieces or whatever. You may beleive what you want, but don't try to feed us your religous doctrine.We didn't buy it, we won't buy it, we will never buy it.

 

[eanassir]

a perfect being would want or need creatures like us--or any sort of creature, really--to worship him in the first place.

This is in reply to their questions about God – be glorified.

God: there in no god in the universe apart from Him. He was like a hidden treasure, and He created all the creatures to know about His existence and to recognize Him and serve Him alone.

God – be exalted – said in the Quran 51: 56​

وَمَا خَلَقْتُ الْجِنَّ وَالْإِنسَ إِلَّا لِيَعْبُدُونِ​

The explanation: (I created the genie-kind [: demons] and human-kind only that they might worship Me [alone.])

He is not in need of their worship or servitude: if all people disbelieve, that will not decrease His kingdom; and if all people believe and worship Him, that will not increase His kingdom.

But He disagrees about the disbelief and the association of some equals or peers with Him, and if man shows gratitude to the bounty of his Lord, then He is pleased with this gratitude.

This is in the Quran 39: 7​

إِن تَكْفُرُوا فَإِنَّ اللَّهَ غَنِيٌّ عَنكُمْ وَلَا يَرْضَى لِعِبَادِهِ الْكُفْرَ وَإِن تَشْكُرُوا يَرْضَهُ لَكُمْ​

The explanation: (If you [people] unbelieve, then assuredly God is Independent of you[r belief and worship], and He is not pleased with the unbelief [and ingratitude] of His servants; but if you show gratitude [to the bounties of God], He will be pleased with that...)

This will be like an officer or a general in the army, and there were soldiers under his leadership. Then a soldier passes by him, does not salute him, nor show respect to him, in spite that the general has treated him well and gave him all what he needs in the camp; the general will certainly be angry and will punish and imprison him.
While another soldier salutes his commander, respect him and is polite with him and obey all his orders; then surely the commander or general will be pleased with this soldier, and will honor and reward him.
Certainly, the two soldiers will not be equal concerning the way their commander will deal with them.

He does not want to punish them; He wants to be Merciful to them, but they choose to be ungrateful and they insist on the blasphemy, in spite of the large number of the apostles that He sent them.
This is in the Quran 4: 147​

مَّا يَفْعَلُ اللّهُ بِعَذَابِكُمْ إِن شَكَرْتُمْ وَآمَنتُمْ وَكَانَ اللّهُ شَاكِرًا عَلِيمًا​

The explanation: (What would God do with chastising you if you are thankful, and believe? God is All-Thankful, All-Knowing.)

eanassir
http://man-after-death.741.com​