The marriage "Saviours"

[bluealberta]

To use a favorite tool of the far left, it's what is not said that is important. No one from the Liberals or NDP has said absolutely that the tax exempt status will not be revoked, so until it is officially denied, it remains a distinct possibility.

This isn't a tool of the left at all. It is just more fear mongering from the radical religious right bigots who are too frigging stupid to understand that they have no right to force their insane and bigoted religious dogma down the throats of people who do not believe in their fairy-tales.

Just as you are too arrogant to understand that you have no right to force your insane and unproven theories down the throats of people who do not believe in cradle to grave socialism. So this is another religion attack? What happened to democracy? Freedom of choice? The right of religious freedom? Tolerance for other viewpoints? Are you just throwing all that away? To categorize all religious people of being zealots, bigots, and fear mongering is the very definition of intolerance.

And why won't you answer the question: Why will not the Liberals and the NDP categorically state that churches will not lose their tax exempt status if they refuse to perform SSM? Will you state it?

 

[Cathou]

And why won't you answer the question: Why will not the Liberals and the NDP categorically state that churches will not lose their tax exempt status if they refuse to perform SSM? Will you state it?

seriously, when we talk about marriage, it's always civil marriage. i wouldnt support it if it's should force churches to do same-sex marriage, and i dont any gay who expect that it will happen. the general consensus is : church will do whatever marriage they want, and the courthouse will do civil marriage. both are exactly the same but church one is made under the eye of god, and civil marriage is make under the eye of the judge...

 

[Vanni Fucci]

Neither have the Liberals or NDP stated categorically that they will not enlist inmates from federal penitentiaries to sodomize non-compliant clergy...but do we really need to legislate that?

 

[Vanni Fucci]

And why won't you answer the question: Why will not the Liberals and the NDP categorically state that churches will not lose their tax exempt status if they refuse to perform SSM? Will you state it?

seriously, when we talk about marriage, it's always civil marriage. i wouldnt support it if it's should force churches to do same-sex marriage, and i dont any gay who expect that it will happen. the general consensus is : church will do whatever marriage they want, and the courthouse will do civil marriage. both are exactly the same but church one is made under the eye of god, and civil marriage is make under the eye of the judge...

...and yet they are, and have for a long time been, equal under the law, and under the term marriage...

 

[bluealberta]

And why won't you answer the question: Why will not the Liberals and the NDP categorically state that churches will not lose their tax exempt status if they refuse to perform SSM? Will you state it?

seriously, when we talk about marriage, it's always civil marriage. i wouldnt support it if it's should force churches to do same-sex marriage, and i dont any gay who expect that it will happen. the general consensus is : church will do whatever marriage they want, and the courthouse will do civil marriage. both are exactly the same but church one is made under the eye of god, and civil marriage is make under the eye of the judge...

Good points, especially your last one.

 

[Reverend Blair]

And why won't you answer the question: Why will not the Liberals and the NDP categorically state that churches will not lose their tax exempt status if they refuse to perform SSM? Will you state it?

Because it is not a real question, it is just fear mongering. It does not need a categorical response because it is categorically ridiculous to suggest that such a thing would even be possible. The present legislation already protects the right of churches not to perform SSM. No party has expressed an interest in changing that. To discriminate against one or more churches based on their religious beliefs would also be against the charter.

If it was up to me, I would withdraw the tax exempt status of all religious institutions no matter what their stance on SSM, but that isn't even a plank in any party's platform.

 

[bluealberta]

Neither have the Liberals or NDP stated categorically that they will not enlist inmates from federal penitentiaries to sodomize non-compliant clergy...but do we really need to legislate that?

In these days of accusations of hidden agendas, twisting of words, and no faith, I think it is important that things be clear. If there is no problem with this, why not say it? Or is the reluctance to say it hiding something else? For right or wrong, this country has moved very far away from it's Christian roots, and the reluctance of anyone to confirm the tax status exemption is seen by some as another step on that ladder.

 

[Reverend Blair]

RE: The marriage "Saviour

Things are clear. There is no basis for the rumour that the religious right is spreading.

 

[bluealberta]

Re: RE: The marriage "Saviour

Things are clear. There is no basis for the rumour that the religious right is spreading.

Yes there is. A liberal minister, and I can't remenber his name, made the comments about taking away the tax exempt status back in January or February, I believe. Why won't Jack and Paul categorically state that the tax exempt status will not be revoked due to the refusal to perform SSM? Their silence speaks volumes, and may also speak to the hidden agenda of the NDP and Libs on this issue. Besides, if the libs and NDP want to show that the so-called "religious right" is wrong, what better opportunity than to say that their claim is ridiculous, and state it will never happen.

 

[Cathou]

Re: RE: The marriage "Saviour

Things are clear. There is no basis for the rumour that the religious right is spreading.

Yes there is. A liberal minister, and I can't remenber his name, made the comments about taking away the tax exempt status back in January or February, I believe. Why won't Jack and Paul categorically state that the tax exempt status will not be revoked due to the refusal to perform SSM? Their silence speaks volumes, and may also speak to the hidden agenda of the NDP and Libs on this issue. Besides, if the libs and NDP want to show that the so-called "religious right" is wrong, what better opportunity than to say that their claim is ridiculous, and state it will never happen.

i dont hink any party would do that, a hidden agenda have the very dangerous side that once it out, you got everyone against you. seriously, think about it twice. there enough people that would be against it to kick the governement out at the next election. any party who would do something like that would commit a political suicide. they dont want to talk about it because even try to deny that they want to do something like that or not would be like holding a loaded gun toward your head when you have parkinson...

 

[Reverend Blair]

RE: The marriage "Saviour

I'm going to have to ask for a link to the quote from the Liberal minister, first of all. Second of all, I want to know which way he voted on the bill.

The fact remains that it would be unconstitutional though. It would clearly be discrimination on religious grounds...along the same lines as taking away the tax exempt status from the Catholic Church because they won't marry Protestants.

 

[damngrumpy]

I was not trying to put anyone down by saying I didn't understand why someone would want to be gay, I just don't know enough about how those folks feel, but I do respect their choice of lifestyle, people should do what makes them happy. In the news this weekend, there is a case from the USA where some folks did not vote for George Bush, and the church kicked them out of the congregation. Freedom of religion is one thing but now some churches don't want to allow people in the parish to hold political view different from those of the clergy.
The same holds true for marriages, the church claims the world is picking on them, then they go out and behave like bullies themselves.
Forcing churches to perform same sex marriages is one thing, but all churches like other institutions should be forced to obay the law, and that includes human rights laws.

 

[peapod]

It all boils down to homo sex, thats what its about and it always has been. The same filthy minds, that vilify a sponge....course I am just going by what the dude told me.

 

[Cathou]

Re: RE: The marriage "Saviours"

I was not trying to put anyone down by saying I didn't understand why someone would want to be gay, I just don't know enough about how those folks feel, but I do respect their choice of lifestyle, people should do what makes them happy.

since i'm the only one who have respond to that i feel responsable :wink:

seriously, i didnt think that you wanted to put anyone down. in fact it's pretty normal that you dont really know how we feel if you dont have any gay in you immediate personal sphere. so dont feel bad about it, i was happy to talk about what i feel if it can help you to understand more about others feeling

if more people would take the time to know each others feeling, those things wouldnt even been an issue for nobody...

 

[no1important]

RE: The marriage "Saviour

I have not heard Liberals or NDP say they remove tax exempt status if they don't marry sams sex couples. I have also heard a great many times Churches will not force them to marry same sex couples.

Anything you hear to the contrary is just an outragous lie, and misinformation brought to you by the radical religious right who are basically the same people that put out misinformation about Kyoto, Child Care, decriminalizing marijuana and so on and so on.

I guess for some people if you hear the same bull over and over your bound to believe it. It is called Fear-mongering. The same thing right wing religious nuts have been doing all throughout time.

From the Christian Post

Similarly, the Canadian Anglican Church leaders voted last week to “attend but not participate” in the international Anglican Consultative Council meeting set for June, and loosely halted the blessing of same-sex marriages.

Lossely halted but not stopped.

another take here

 

[bluealberta]

Re: RE: The marriage "Saviour

I have not heard Liberals or NDP say they remove tax exempt status if they don't marry sams sex couples. I have also heard a great many times Churches will not force them to marry same sex couples.

Anything you hear to the contrary is just an outragous lie, and misinformation brought to you by the radical religious right who are basically the same people that put out misinformation about Kyoto, Child Care, decriminalizing marijuana and so on and so on.

I guess for some people if you hear the same bull over and over your bound to believe it. It is called Fear-mongering. The same thing right wing religious nuts have been doing all throughout time.

From the Christian Post

Similarly, the Canadian Anglican Church leaders voted last week to “attend but not participate” in the international Anglican Consultative Council meeting set for June, and loosely halted the blessing of same-sex marriages.

Lossely halted but not stopped.

another take here

The right certainly has no monopoly on putting out misinformation on topics, the left is as bad or worse.

 

[Reverend Blair]

RE: The marriage "Saviour

You seem a little short on facts, Blue

 

[bluealberta]

Re: RE: The marriage "Saviour

You seem a little short on facts, Blue

i wasn't quoting anything, just making a statement based on my observations. I checked at work regarding the tax exempt church status, and as they remembered it, a member of a gay lobby group said that they wanted to have the tax exempt status revoked, not a liberal minister, so I apologise for that. We are still trying to locate the date and time, but thought it was around Jan/Feb and was in one of the papers we get at work, so it may be hard to track down, but we will continue to find it. However, more than just I read it, if that is of any consequence.

 

[Reverend Blair]

RE: The marriage "Saviour

Big deal...I've said that I'd like the tax exempt status revoked for all churches. That doesn't mean that it is even a vague possibility. Randy White wants to make homosexuality illegal...he's a fairly senior MP in the Conservative Party...yet we're supposed to ignore that. One guy from a lobby group you don't like makes a statement that he'd like to see something unconstitutional and you assume that it's going to happen? Give it up, man...you are grasping at straws.

 

[bluealberta]

Re: RE: The marriage "Saviour

Big deal...I've said that I'd like the tax exempt status revoked for all churches. That doesn't mean that it is even a vague possibility. Randy White wants to make homosexuality illegal...he's a fairly senior MP in the Conservative Party...yet we're supposed to ignore that. One guy from a lobby group you don't like makes a statement that he'd like to see something unconstitutional and you assume that it's going to happen? Give it up, man...you are grasping at straws.

No, actually, it's just part of the left wing and the radical gay lobby's hidden agenda. Until both the Liberals and New Dumbocrats categorically say they will not revoke the tax exempt status for any religious group or church that refuses to perfomr SSM, then I have to wonder. All they have to do is deny it, and I will believe them.