The lie that is Green Energy

Jinentonix

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Sep 6, 2015
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Olympus Mons
Poor Flossie will believe anything his leftard masters tell him.

The Global Wind Energy Council recently released its latest report, excitedly boasting that ‘the proliferation of wind energy into the global power market continues at a furious pace, after it was revealed that more than 54 gigawatts of clean renewable wind power was installed across the global market last year’.

You may have got the impression from announcements like that, and from the obligatory pictures of wind turbines in any MSM story or airport advert about energy, that wind power is making a big contribution to world energy today. You would be wrong. Its contribution is still, after decades — nay centuries — of development, trivial to the point of irrelevance.

Here’s a quiz; no conferring. To the nearest whole number, what percentage of the world’s energy consumption was supplied by wind power in 2014, the last year for which there are reliable figures? Was it 20 per cent, 10 per cent or 5 per cent? None of the above: it was 0 per cent. That is to say, to the nearest whole number, there is still no wind power on Earth.

Even put together, wind and photovoltaic solar are supplying less than 1 per cent of global energy demand. From the International Energy Agency’s 2016 Key Renewables Trends, we can see that wind provided 0.46 per cent of global energy consumption in 2014, and solar and tide combined provided 0.35 per cent. Remember this is total energy, not just electricity, which is less than a fifth of all final energy, the rest being the solid, gaseous, and liquid fuels that do the heavy lifting for heat, transport and industry.

Such numbers are not hard to find, but they don’t figure prominently in reports on energy derived from the unreliables lobby (solar and wind). Their trick is to hide behind the statement that close to 14 per cent of the world’s energy is renewable, with the implication that this is wind and solar. In fact the vast majority — three quarters — is biomass (mainly wood), and a very large part of that is ‘traditional biomass’; sticks and logs and dung burned by the poor in their homes to cook with. Those people need that energy, but they pay a big price in health problems caused by smoke inhalation.

Even in rich countries playing with subsidized wind and solar, a huge slug of their renewable energy comes from wood and hydro, the reliable renewables. Meanwhile, world energy demand has been growing at about 2 per cent a year for nearly 40 years. Between 2013 and 2014, again using International Energy Agency data, it grew by just under 2,000 terawatt-hours.
If wind turbines were to supply all of that growth but no more, how many would need to be built each year? The answer is nearly 350,000, since a two-megawatt turbine can produce about 0.005 terawatt-hours per annum. That’s one-and-a-half times as many as have been built in the world since governments started pouring consumer funds into this so-called industry in the early 2000s.

At a density of, very roughly, 50 acres per megawatt, typical for wind farms, that many turbines would require a land area greater than the British Isles, including Ireland. Every year. If we kept this up for 50 years, we would have covered every square mile of a land area the size of Russia with wind farms. Remember, this would be just to fulfill the new demand for energy, not to displace the vast existing supply of energy from fossil fuels, which currently supply 80 per cent of global energy needs.
Do not take refuge in the idea that wind turbines could become more efficient. There is a limit to how much energy you can extract from a moving fluid, the Betz limit, and wind turbines are already close to it. Their effectiveness (the load factor, to use the engineering term) is determined by the wind that is available, and that varies at its own sweet will from second to second, day to day, year to year.

As machines, wind turbines are pretty good already; the problem is the wind resource itself, and we cannot change that. It’s a fluctuating stream of low–density energy. Mankind stopped using it for mission-critical transport and mechanical power long ago, for sound reasons. It’s just not very good.

As for resource consumption and environmental impacts, the direct effects of wind turbines — killing birds and bats, sinking concrete foundations deep into wild lands — is bad enough. But out of sight and out of mind is the dirty pollution generated in Inner Mongolia by the mining of rare-earth metals for the magnets in the turbines. This generates toxic and radioactive waste on an epic scale, which is why the phrase ‘clean energy’ is such a sick joke and politicians should be ashamed every time it passes their lips.

It gets worse. Wind turbines, apart from the fibreglass blades, are made mostly of steel, with concrete bases. They need about 200 times as much material per unit of capacity as a modern combined cycle gas turbine. Steel is made with coal, not just to provide the heat for smelting ore, but to supply the carbon in the alloy. Cement is also often made using coal. The machinery of ‘clean’ renewables is the output of the fossil fuel economy, and largely the coal economy.

A two-megawatt wind turbine weighs about 250 tonnes, including the tower, nacelle, rotor and blades. Globally, it takes about half a tonne of coal to make a tonne of steel. Add another 25 tonnes of coal for making the cement and you’re talking 150 tonnes of coal per turbine. Now if we are to build 350,000 wind turbines a year (or a smaller number of bigger ones), just to keep up with increasing energy demand, that will require 50 million tonnes of coal a year. That’s about half the EU’s hard coal–mining output.
For those who have a commercial interest in coal, it would appear the black stuff also gives them a commercial interest in "clean, green" wind power. Now we now why Trump is working to get the US coal industry back on track. To profit from manufacturing the machines of "green" energy.

The point of running through these numbers is to demonstrate that it is utterly futile, on a priori grounds, even to think that wind power can make any significant contribution to the world energy supply, let alone to emissions reductions, without ruining the planet and modern economies. As the late David MacKay pointed out years back, the arithmetic is against such unreliable renewables.

Wind power capacity claims also ignore the fact that capacity and actual output are two entirely different things. Typically, wind power can only utilize a bit over 20% of its capacity for actual generation. So, having 1000MW of wind capacity means you're only getting about 200MW of power generation out of it.
 

MHz

Time Out
Mar 16, 2007
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Red Deer AB
The Global Wind Energy Council recently released its latest report, excitedly boasting that ‘the proliferation of wind energy into the global power market continues at a furious pace, after it was revealed that more than 54 gigawatts of clean renewable wind power was installed across the global market last year’.

You may have got the impression from announcements like that, and from the obligatory pictures of wind turbines in any MSM story or airport advert about energy, that wind power is making a big contribution to world energy today. You would be wrong. Its contribution is still, after decades — nay centuries — of development, trivial to the point of irrelevance.

Here’s a quiz; no conferring. To the nearest whole number, what percentage of the world’s energy consumption was supplied by wind power in 2014, the last year for which there are reliable figures? Was it 20 per cent, 10 per cent or 5 per cent? None of the above: it was 0 per cent. That is to say, to the nearest whole number, there is still no wind power on Earth.
Repair is virtually impossible as installing a new unit is cheaper and that is still very expensive. Sink then where a strong current flows, such as the Gulf Stream and put a better blade and it would be accessible for repair, easily as ships and floats are the only tools needed. Land designs could be a lot smaller and attached to the ground it the tower was made taller and a sail attached that would funnel the wind onto a small tunnel where the turbine would be located.
That being said, if geothermal heating/cooling was made a standard the energy needs would be cut a great deal.
 

Jinentonix

Hall of Fame Member
Sep 6, 2015
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Repair is virtually impossible as installing a new unit is cheaper and that is still very expensive. Sink then where a strong current flows, such as the Gulf Stream and put a better blade and it would be accessible for repair, easily as ships and floats are the only tools needed. Land designs could be a lot smaller and attached to the ground it the tower was made taller and a sail attached that would funnel the wind onto a small tunnel where the turbine would be located.
That being said, if geothermal heating/cooling was made a standard the energy needs would be cut a great deal.
Geo-thermal only works in very specific areas unless you plan on fracking for it. What's funny with all the freaking out about fracking in the oil and gas industry, the first known earthquake/tremor to be caused by fracking was during a proof of concept geo-thermal facility in Switzerland that was shut down for that very reason.
And geo-thermal isn't necessarily renewable either. Just ask Iceland about their $10 billion white elephant built over an open vent that ultimately dried up in about a decade.

The fact is, the only truly reliable source of clean, green energy we currently have is hydroelectric. Which is great because it also provides necessary base-load generation as well. But! The only way hydroelectric is green is when you don't have to flood thousands of hectares of land just to have a reservoir. Existing facilities can be considered green because the damage has already been done and all energy generation is now clean and green but building new ones that require large reservoirs is not really a solution.

And no matter what you do with them, wind turbines are NOT the answer on a commercial/industrial scale. That type of power generation is best left with the individual property owner or small, remote communities that have no grid connection. The problem with that solution is govts and power providers can't tax or profit from our second-by-second use of something we pretty much can't live without these days.
 

petros

The Central Scrutinizer
Nov 21, 2008
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Wind power is a cheap way to add power to a region with a jump in demand.

ON Govt subsidized Red Lily in SK. That power picked up the demand from the Bakken Shale oil and Midale EOR oil plays.

Thanks Wynne!
 

Danbones

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Sep 23, 2015
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Hence the carbon tax

Like Maurice Strong said
Hey! let's destroy the industrialized nations - that will solve the power problems.
(then we can drown them in the pollution created by the unregulated countries who get all the power using jobs!)

having said that
Gotta love Hydro, gives me energy.
:)
 
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petros

The Central Scrutinizer
Nov 21, 2008
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Crown Corps can't be taxed. It's law.

This is why Saskatchewan is going to fight it (SaskPower is a Crown) and why Wynne sold off Hydro One.

She old the crown asset to make it taxable.

I bet there will be a Crown Corp fire sale in all provinces and territories and the Feds before Trudeau's carbon tax hits.
 

Tecumsehsbones

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Mar 18, 2013
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When I think of all the money wasted on clearly, demonstrably impossible ideas these idiots come up with, it makes me want to break my pointed stick in sheer frustration.
 

Bar Sinister

Executive Branch Member
Jan 17, 2010
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I think that you may be just making up "facts," and ignoring others that get in the way of your position. Let's take the area of the world needed to supply wind energy. "At a density of, very roughly, 50 acres per megawatt, typical for wind farms, that many turbines would require a land area greater than the British Isles, including Ireland. Every year. If we kept this up for 50 years, we would have covered every square mile of a land area the size of Russia with wind farms." In actual fact if wind turbines were used exclusively for energy they would require an area of the world equal to about half of Alaska. Given the fact that wind turbines can be placed almost anywhere, even offshore, there is more than enough room for them. And then there is the fact that is the last 30 years wind turbines have increased in efficiency to the point where they currently produce 15 times the energy of a wind turbine in 1980. I don't expect technological improvements in wind and solar to slow down.

The same is true for solar energy. An area the size of Spain could supply enough solar power for the entire world. However, we don't have to cover Spain or any other nation with solar panels considering the fact that so many areas of the world are desert. The Sahara alone could supply the world with electricity many times over.

Currently, as you point out, wind and solar cannot match conventional sources of energy in total output, but do not expect it to stay that way. In 2015 green energy grew by 8% worldwide. Continued growth at that rate would see its use double and then quadruple and then double again in less than 30 years. But that would be ignoring nations like India and China where green energy production is proceeding much more quickly.
India Launches Massive Push for Clean Power, Lighting, and Cars

India Launches Massive Push for Clean Power, Lighting, and Cars

And then there is your comment on resource use for green energy which conveniently ignores the environmental damage created by the to production of coal and oil. If there is a dirtier industry than either of these two I don't know of it.
 

Danbones

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Sep 23, 2015
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Didn't notice fukushima killed the pacific eh?
;)
eat salmon

The Fukushima Endgame: The Radioactive Contamination of the Pacific Ocean
(This article by Professor Michel Chossudovsky was granted the 2015 Project Censored Award.)

Certain isotopes of radioactive plutonium are known as some of the deadliest poisons on the face of the earth. A mere microgram (a speck of darkness on a pinhead) of Plutonium-239, if inhaled, can cause death, and if ingested, radioactive Plutonium can be harmful, causing leukemia and other bone cancers.

“In the days following the 2011 earthquake and nuclear plant explosions, seawater meant to cool the nuclear power plants instead carried radioactive elements back to the Pacific ocean. Radioactive Plutonium was one of the elements streamed back to sea.” (decodescience.com).
http://www.globalresearch.ca/the-fukushima-endgame/5420188

28 Signs That The West Coast Is Being Absolutely Fried With Nuclear Radiation From Fukushima
http://www.globalresearch.ca/28-sig...with-nuclear-radiation-from-fukushima/5355280

5 years later, Fukushima radiation continues to seep into the Pacific Ocean
http://www.pbs.org/newshour/updates/fukushima-radiation-continues-to-leak-into-the-pacific-ocean/
(oh look, PBS the "fake news" channel)

Oil and coal never did this kind of damage, and oil and coal are not nearly as long a lasting problem as nukes are.
 
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pgs

Hall of Fame Member
Nov 29, 2008
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I think that you may be just making up "facts," and ignoring others that get in the way of your position. Let's take the area of the world needed to supply wind energy. "At a density of, very roughly, 50 acres per megawatt, typical for wind farms, that many turbines would require a land area greater than the British Isles, including Ireland. Every year. If we kept this up for 50 years, we would have covered every square mile of a land area the size of Russia with wind farms." In actual fact if wind turbines were used exclusively for energy they would require an area of the world equal to about half of Alaska. Given the fact that wind turbines can be placed almost anywhere, even offshore, there is more than enough room for them. And then there is the fact that is the last 30 years wind turbines have increased in efficiency to the point where they currently produce 15 times the energy of a wind turbine in 1980. I don't expect technological improvements in wind and solar to slow down.

The same is true for solar energy. An area the size of Spain could supply enough solar power for the entire world. However, we don't have to cover Spain or any other nation with solar panels considering the fact that so many areas of the world are desert. The Sahara alone could supply the world with electricity many times over.

Currently, as you point out, wind and solar cannot match conventional sources of energy in total output, but do not expect it to stay that way. In 2015 green energy grew by 8% worldwide. Continued growth at that rate would see its use double and then quadruple and then double again in less than 30 years. But that would be ignoring nations like India and China where green energy production is proceeding much more quickly.
India Launches Massive Push for Clean Power, Lighting, and Cars

India Launches Massive Push for Clean Power, Lighting, and Cars

And then there is your comment on resource use for green energy which conveniently ignores the environmental damage created by the to production of coal and oil. If there is a dirtier industry than either of these two I don't know of it.
Funny how you leave the largest power producer out of the equation . Hydro electric is the largest producer of electricity yet it is never mentioned in any of your posts . Why is that ?
 

Tecumsehsbones

Hall of Fame Member
Mar 18, 2013
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Funny how you leave the largest power producer out of the equation . Hydro electric is the largest producer of electricity yet it is never mentioned in any of your posts . Why is that ?
Even funnier how both of y'all (and your respective cohorts) make a religion outta this stuff, when it's clear to anybody with a brain not overwhelmed by sheer, gibbering terror that the future of energy is a mix of fossil, nuclear, alcohol, biomass, "green," technologies that are still in the engineering phase (wind, solar, fusion), technologies that are still in the theoretical phase (ZPE), and stuff we ain't even dreamed of yet.
 

petros

The Central Scrutinizer
Nov 21, 2008
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Given the fact that wind turbines can be placed almost anywhere, even offshore, there is more than enough room for them.
The would be wonderful and true if everywhere was windy enough.

Consistent winds 24/7/365 are needed for reliable wind power.
 

Tecumsehsbones

Hall of Fame Member
Mar 18, 2013
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The would be wonderful and true if everywhere was windy enough.

Consistent winds 24/7/365 are needed for reliable wind power.
Easy-peasy. You put 'em offshore and install 'em on great big ol' pivots. Then when the wind ain't blowing, you pivot 'em down underwater and produce tidal energy!

You people are so narrow-minded. . .
 

MHz

Time Out
Mar 16, 2007
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Red Deer AB
Want to bet all the foam cladding no longer used in any country with the internet will now be sold to developing nations? Imagine Aleppo and Damascus retrofitted with that shit so when one went up the whole city went up . Syria should still accept the foam but install it on the inside of the walls and leave the bullet holes on the outside showing as a reminder they are a safety hazard.

It would make no sense to tax a crown corp. If a crown corp makes a profit, the profits go to the crown. If it were taxed, the taxes would go to the crown, and the lower income would go...to the crown.
Money should be declared an essential service and then any interest it collects goes to lowering it's operating costs. Zero shareholders.