The Israeli bullcrap detector

[moghrabi]

Re: RE: The Israeli bullcrap detector

Hello, Salut, Saluton, Ahlan wa Sahlan, Shalom, and 你们好！

I've found this link to a Jewish site you might find interesting:

http://www.jewsagainstzionism.com/

This site claims that ultra-orthodox Jews believe that according to the Torah, the Jews were not to return to the Holy Land until their Messiah returned, and it even quotes from the scriptures to prove their point. As far as this group is concerned, the Zionists are no more Jewish than, say, the Crusaders were Christian; religion is merely an excuse for their fanaticism.

Salam,

I am aware of this site. If you were watching TV when Arafat was dying in a French hospital, a lot of the orthodox Jews were on the street praying for him. They will never go to the promised land until Christ comes back. The reason for that is they belieive that they killed (crucified) Jesus Christ.

 

[Rick van Opbergen]

Well, by far not all Orthodox Jews are the same, but there are some Orthodox-Jewish movements in Israel - especially among Orthodox settlers - who would definitely see the Satmar as traitors. And also others by the way. I recall a certain Yitchak Rabin.

 

[Rick van Opbergen]

Ehm moghrabi you are messing some things up here. The messias the Satmar talk about is not Jesus Christ. What you are describe are "Jews for Jesus".

 

[Machjo]

True. I guess that that's splits Jews from Christians. Jews are still waiting for the Massiah, whereas Christians are saying "why are you still waiting after all these years."

 

[moghrabi]

RE: The Israeli bullcrap

No I don't think I am mixing the two. And if I am then what are the jews waiting for if it was not for Christ.

 

[Machjo]

Well, Jews were awaiting the comming of the Messiah. When Christ came, some accepted him as having fulfilled the prophesies of the Torah and was the promissed Messiah, whereas others claimed he hadn't fulfilled the required prophesies, and so rejected Christ and decided to continue waiting for whom they believed would be the Messiah.

 

[Rick van Opbergen]

Exactly Machjo. There have been others by the way who claimed to be the Messias. If I recall it correctly, Shabbetai Zvi was said to be the Messias too. He evently converted to Islam.

 

[Machjo]

It's a similar relationship between Christianity and Islam. While Muslims believe that the Evangel in fact did make reference to him, Christians rejected such an understanding of the Evanjel, believing that according to their interpretation, Muhammad had not fulfilled the required prophecies.

 

[moghrabi]

RE: The Israeli bullcrap

Muslims beleive that Mohammed is the last messenger of God. Are you serious that some Jews are waiting for another prophet? They are going to wait for a long time or at least until Bush is out of office. I don't think a God-sent prophet will be dumb enough to come down at this time.

 

[Rick van Opbergen]

I don't think a Messias awaits the political climate to alter.

 

[moghrabi]

RE: The Israeli bullcrap

I know that. I was just making a political statement against Bush.

 

[Rick van Opbergen]

I know

 

[Machjo]

By the way, Moghrabi, that name sounds Persian. Is that a good guess or am I wrong?

 

[moghrabi]

Wrong.

Keep guessing.

 

[Machjo]

Hmmm... Arabic?

 

[moghrabi]

Got it.

 

[moghrabi]

Now you have to guess the nationality by looking at my pic.

 

[Machjo]

Canadian?

 

[Machjo]

Ah, does it relate to the triliteral Mim, Ghain and Ba?

and teh word Maghreb?

Does it mean Westerner?

 

[moghrabi]

RE: The Israeli bullcrap

I am a Canadian. And yes Arabic Westerner. Guess which country in the ME has more westerner looking ppl.

Moghrabi = Maghreb = Western