The Immigrants Poem

[FiveParadox]

Wise words, as always, Haggis McBagpipe.

There's a difference between your spark-posts and his though, Boss! You tend to post something about torture or nekkid people. =D Heh. I would agree, though, there is never a need for disrespecting fellow members of Canadian Content; we are all quite capable of conducting ourselves in an appropriate manner.

 

[OpnSrc]

Re: RE: The Immigrants Poem

There is absolutely no reason to call OpnSrc a racist simply because he posted this poem. He posted it, as he said, for discussion. I have, many times, posted something controversial in order to get a discussion going. This one promises to be a good one, but can be conducted as easily without the slings and arrows.

Thank you Haggis. It was not my intention to offend, but rather spark a conversation.

On that point I agree with you quite wholeheartedly, OpnSrc.

Despite the fact that treaties were signed, I would maintain that several of those treaties were not signed in the good faith that we would sometimes be led to believe; however, the current case is not the same, in my opinion, in that we are receiving immigrants into Canada, rather than receiving them in opposition to our own wishes.

Our native brothers and sisters deserve far more respect from us. We have corrupted their way of life and destroyed so much of their trust. I am still appauled by the way our 1st nations reserves are still so poor and disrepected. Something I would be proud to pay my tax dollars for is the empowerment of our 1st nations reserves.

This still does not negate from my stance on how immigrants are better treated than pensioners who spent their entire lives contributing to the "system". It is so very wrong!

Nor does it negate the way I feel about knives worn in schools, it is a public safety issue NOT a relegious freedom. Wait until someone tries to board a commercial jet with one... what then? do we change the rules again allowing terrorists a loop hole? It is a public safety issue!

Edit: I own a few Bob Marley records, I am interested in Rastafarian Beliefs... am I legally allowed so smoke Marijuana?

 

[Hank C]

Re: RE: The Immigrants Poem

I would rather see the children of this nation have it better than immigrants.

Canadian Government seniors policy:

It is interesting that the federal government provides a single refugee with a monthly allowance of $1,890.00 and each can also get an additional $580.00 in social assistance for a total of $2,470.00.

This compares very well to a single pensioner who after contributing to the growth and development of Canada for 40 to 50 years can only receive a monthly maximum of $1,012.00 in old age pension and Guaranteed Income Supplement.

Maybe our pensioners should apply as refugees!
And maybe we can get the refugees cut back to $1,012.00 and the pensioners up to $2,470 00 and enjoy some of the money we were forced to submit to the Government over the last 40 or 50 years.


But people with ultra-liberal, political correctiveness want our immigrating friends to be comfortable and feel "accomodated".

I really don't know what to say about this......there is no logic behind it! Its one of those things that if the leftist media made an issue out of it....we would have it addressed.

 

[tracy]

You realize that government pension is supposed to be just a supplement to their income right?

And that immigrants don't get their subsidy forever or for free? If they get it at all that is. Most immigrants are not refugees.

I don't know if you're a racist or not, but your posts on this matter sound racist to me.

 

[OpnSrc]

Re: RE: The Immigrants Poem

You realize that government pension is supposed to be just a supplement to their income right?

And that immigrants don't get their subsidy forever or for free?

I don't know if you're a racist or not, but your posts on this matter sound racist to me.

Because I have a different opinion than yours, regardless of fact. I am a racist?

I suppose because I disagree with knife wearing in public schools for health and safety concerns.. that further illustrates I am a racist?

One day when you are about to retire and you see your new neighbour from another country who has never paid our taxes or contributed to our economic growth as a nation, who just moved here without a job, living a higher financial standard you, solely based on refugee status... you might then agree with me.

Hey not every Canadian born here had a great upbringing... does that mean if you were born and raised in Regent Park or Jane & Finch and feared for your life.. you get to move to Oakville and claim refugee status?

 

[ashley_rb]

This one promises to be a good one, but can be conducted as easily without the slings and arrows.

Haggis is most likely refering to me - again. Here Haggis I'll fill in the blanks for you, "ashley_rb, tone it down". See, I remembered to assume your always right. Hey speaking of Pakistani's > Like being forced to sit in the back seat of the car, not all woman are as stupid as some men believe them to be. We do remember!

Look >>> Its a happy face > happy face! SNA (still not angry)

Speaking of anger....

Are you (ashley_rb) daft or retarded? ... you are either a total rasist yourself or just plain dumb.

(Depending on who you are, I'll guess all the arrows arent the same here! Some are free to fling their arrows freely, others have their bow taken away. )

OpnSrc,

You're only getting angry because you know I'm right. The motivation to post the poem wasn't for a calm (take a breath), clear (sit back) and engaging (relax) discussion.

Lets assume you didn't write the poem, does that still pardon you from the motivation to post it? No. If you wanted to have a discussion about the topic of the poem you would have posted the topic, not the poem itself.

Go over to a Pakistani forum and post it there. If its not racically motivated you have a thing to worry about. I'm sure the Canadian Paki's would enjoy the poem and praise you for starting a conversation that promises to be, to some, a good one.

Whether one lights the cross on fire or just stands back and watches it burn, they are still guilty.

 

[FiveParadox]

Few immigrants come to Canada, registered under refugee status; most apply for either permanent residence or citizenship. With all due respect, OpnSrc, I would suggest that, perhaps, your suggestions would address only a minority of immigration to Canada.

 

[OpnSrc]

Re: RE: The Immigrants Poem

Few immigrants come to Canada, registered under refugee status; most apply for either permanent residence or citizenship. With all due respect, OpnSrc, I would suggest that, perhaps, your suggestions would address only a minority of immigration to Canada.

Agreed ... I am not suggesting that every person who comes to live in this country via immigration is going to take advantage of our deterioring and abused assistance programs.
Yes not all immigrants claim refugee status, however it is not a minority of landed immgrants, refugees and others seeking permanent residence who abuse our assistive programs. I do NOT blame any immigrant for this. This is a huge problem as a result of a decaying government policy and several ultra-liberal do-gooders to whom have which never concentrated on our nations own poor... 1st Nations, Pensioners, Single Mothers and Fathers, etc.

This affects everyone of us.

 

[OpnSrc]

OpnSrc,

You're only getting angry because you know I'm right. The motivation to post the poem wasn't for a calm (take a breath), clear (sit back) and engaging (relax) discussion.

I never once suggested "calm", "clear" or "engaging".

Lets assume you didn't write the poem, does that still pardon you from the motivation to post it? No. If you wanted to have a discussion about the topic of the poem you would have posted the topic, not the poem itself.

For the ummpteenth time... I DIDN'T WRITE THE POEM... google it if you don't beleive me!

Lets see ... Is it racist to republish the cartoons of muhammad? or is it news to display the images that Muslums worldwide are angry over and destroying so much... which btw isn't a small minority of people.

Go over to a Pakistani forum and post it there. If its not racically motivated you have a thing to worry about. I'm sure the Canadian Paki's would enjoy the poem and praise you for starting a conversation that promises to be, to some, a good one.

If I was a Pakistani or of Pakistani desent.. I would belong to that forum... But I'm Not ... I am Canadian .. hence why I joined a Canadian Forum.

IMHO... The poem is ACTUALLY focused more on the downfall of our national policies concerning the accesiblity of the mis-apropreation of taxpayer funds.

Whether one lights the cross on fire or just stands back and watches it burn, they are still guilty.

I can't beleive your ignorance! Guess if I disagree with our nations policies I am a member of the KKK

 

[FiveParadox]

ashley_rb, your accusatory nature is quite uncalled for, in particular in this instance; OpnSrc has asserted quite clearly that he (a he, right?) did not write the poem, and rather has posted that poem here for discussion and debate; his assertion is herein deemed to have been substantiated — click here for a Web copy of the poem. It would be quite appropriate if we could, hereinafter, discontinue accusing OpnSrc of things for which he is not guilty.

 

[tracy]

Re: RE: The Immigrants Poem

You realize that government pension is supposed to be just a supplement to their income right?

And that immigrants don't get their subsidy forever or for free?

I don't know if you're a racist or not, but your posts on this matter sound racist to me.

Because I have a different opinion than yours, regardless of fact. I am a racist?

No, Iike I said I don't know if you are really a racist or not. I do think some of your comments are like about how most of them don't work and hate white people.

I'm really not worried about a refugee coming to Canada and living high on the hog from welfare money while I'm poor. First off, they don't get that much money and they don't get it indefinitely. But, if your idea of heaven is to have 14 people living in one house to save welfare money, then by all means go ahead, no one is stopping you. Secondly, I have an education and a good job. I started saving for my own retirement as soon as I started working. I think it's silly to blame refugees for our situation in life and I think it's just plain mean to begrudge actual refugees some assistance when they first arrive in Canada. It's in our best interests to help them get established here. Plus it ignores the fact that most of our immigrants aren't refugees anyways and they aren't giving monthly subsidies.

 

[tracy]

Re: RE: The Immigrants Poem

[.
Yes not all immigrants claim refugee status, however it is not a minority of landed immgrants, refugees and others seeking permanent residence who abuse our assistive programs.

Where do you get your stats on this?

 

[OpnSrc]

MY STATS:

Before my current job... I worked for the largest moving company in Canada - AMJ Campbell - Atlas Van Lines... in the busiest Franchise based out of 401 and Dixie in Toronto... I moved more "refugees" and "immigrants" who all had some sort of government subsidy and lived in homes i will never afford and I make good money. I performed this job for over a year in Toronto and saw a very disturbing ratio... and my "facts" are based on my life experiences and living in the GTA...
Currently I no longer live in that environment, I moved to a small town hundreds of kilometers away from Toronto.

But if you dont want my word...

Refugee claimants are people who enter Canada, whether by boat, airplane or on foot, and declare themselves to be refugees. They must make their claims to the Immigration and Refugee Board (IRB) in order to stay in Canada. These people are able to apply for welfare or seek work but are not considered permanent residents.

Refugees accounted for 27,894 out of 250,346 immigrants in 2001

11,891 were claimants

60 per cent of deportations involve refugee claimants

One out of four immigrants to Quebec City, Ottawa, Winnipeg and Saskatoon is a refugee

48 per cent of immigrants are between the ages of 25 and 44

SOURCES: 1996 Census Facts and Figures 2001: Immigration Overview

Doesn't seem like a minority to me!

 

[FiveParadox]

That is in fact a minority; according to your statistics, refugees account for only eleven percent of refugees in Canada; and a good number of those are deported, too, seeing as how sixty percent of immigration deportations are refugee status-related.

 

[OpnSrc]

Re: RE: The Immigrants Poem

refugees account for only eleven percent of refugees in Canada

HUH???


As I stated before ... my Opinons are comprised of my personal experiences... I based my opinon on "immigrants" and "refugees" on my life experiences in Brampton and my experiences with moving people for a living.

I still stand by my beliefs of Immigrants AND refugees reaping more benefits from our government than our pensioners... who have paid into it all their lives!

And I still stand by the opinon it IS VERY Wrong to allow ANYONE to carry a knife into a public school inciting relegious beliefs as an excuse... It is a Health and Safety Issue!

 

[OpnSrc]

Re: RE: The Immigrants Poem

That is in fact a minority; according to your statistics

"One out of four immigrants to Quebec City, Ottawa, Winnipeg and Saskatoon is a refugee"

Hello ... that is 25% NOT a Minority!

and a good number of those are deported, too, seeing as how sixty percent of immigration deportations are refugee status-related.

and I would venture to say that our overall deportation numbers are fairly low.

 

[ashley_rb]

It would be quite appropriate if we could, hereinafter, discontinue accusing OpnSrc of things for which he is not guilty.

OpnSrc did post it. Yes he didn't write the poem. But he did republish it here. He could have chosen to put in a link like you did. OprSrc didn't. He reposted it.

IMHO... The poem is ACTUALLY focused more on the downfall of our national policies concerning the accesiblity of the mis-apropreation of taxpayer funds."

That would have made a nice sub-title. I checked, you didn't put that anywhere at the beginning or end of the poem. No statement clarifying your position in republishing the poem as a non-racially motivated piece of work.

Dress it up any way you want - a debate, misaproperated funds - its still remains the same - a poem who's statements are racisit.

You invested the time and resources to republish it here.

For some people, clearly, its more enjoyable to bring the match and then let someone else start the fire. No match, no fire.

 

[OpnSrc]

It would be quite appropriate if we could, hereinafter, discontinue accusing OpnSrc of things for which he is not guilty.

OpnSrc did post it. Yes he didn't write the poem. But he did republish it here. He could have chosen to put in a link like you did. OprSrc didn't. He reposted it.

Yes Ashley.. I reposted it... you are observant.

IMHO... The poem is ACTUALLY focused more on the downfall of our national policies concerning the accesiblity of the mis-apropreation of taxpayer funds."

That would have made a nice sub-title. I checked, you didn't put that anywhere at the beginning or end of the poem. No statement clarifying your position in republishing the poem as a non-racially motivated piece of work.

I don't have to clarify any position. I have read worse racial slurs on the washroom walls at any local Tim Hortons. It definitely got your attention. I am neither empowered or disgusted by the poem... kinda reminds me how hundreds of thousands of people reacted to some cartoons.

Dress it up any way you want - a debate, misaproperated funds - its still remains the same - a poem who's statements are racisit.

Maybe to you.

You invested the time and resources to republish it here.

Yes I did. Again... your keen skills of observation amaze me

For some people, clearly, its more enjoyable to bring the match and then let someone else start the fire. No match, no fire.

Thanks again for the KKK inuendo...

 

[tracy]

OpnSrc, 25% actually is by definition a minority. To be a majority it would have to be 50%+. In addition, that stat that you quoted was only for 4 Canadian cities. You yourself said:

"Refugees accounted for 27,894 out of 250,346 immigrants in 2001"

That works out to refugees accounting for 11% of total immigration. Therefore about 89% of immigrants aren't refugees. They are people who come here to work just like the rest of us. In fact, they have stricter requirements than Canadians (such as bringing a certain amount of money to Canada, having family members sponsor them, being required to start a business that employs Canadians, etc). Your view is a little warped from living in the GTA. I lived in Toronto too and since it's the biggest city in the country it's only natural that many immigrants would start there. I used to volunteer at immigrant services when I lived in BC and the joke was always that BC stood for Bring Cash because our immigrants weren't given a free ride. Most of them didn't qualify for government money.

BTW, how does moving people mean you knew where their income was coming from? I never showed my movers my paycheck before.

 

[Sassylassie]

I have worked for immigrants and they are the hardest working and most dedicated individuals that I have ever had the pleasure to work with. I hear this statement a lot in coffie shops so I typed it like I hear it-god damn foreiners taking our gobs. This really pisses me off, I can't imagine working as hard as they do. Take a corner store owner, he works 16 hour days, raises his kids behind the counter and he does this his entire life. I wish I had that work ethic.