The Growth of a 21st Century Fascism

snfu73

disturber of the peace
I don't get it. I don't even understand the point of all this. Apparently the left are fascists because our environment is degrading at a scary rate, and they are proposing that we actually do something about it...and that makes them fascist in your eyes? Just because you and your right wing extremist buddies don't think that man has helped the escalation in global warming...something that makes PERFECT sense if you actually sit down and think about it...doesn't mean it isn't happening. And, the idea that because the left is proposing changed in our lifestyles in order to help the situation they are fascists is...well...idiotic. It's proposing a solution...and it's one that we might not have any choice in deciding, because it won't be up to governments or any individual group, we will have to as a race come together to do something about it. How much time do we have? Beats me. What will happen? I dunno. But it is clear that something big is going on...it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure that one out. This is an issue that transcends left and right anyway...there are leftist governments and conservative governments across the globe who are working on this issue. And, the only thing that is going to make any difference is a drastic change in how humans live, and act, and use resources. And you can look at these changes as being unwelcome and those who deliver the message as fascists...or you can look at this as an exciting time of discovery, rebirth, redirecting, the moving towards a healthier society for all, a monumental time in the history of mankind that could very well prove to be known as a time when the human race was saved from itself. I look at it as the latter. The fact of the matter is...things change. If we stay stuck where you would like them to stay, society will never grow, society will never progress, and will become stagnint. Growth and change and evolution is important to man kind. If nothing changed, we would still be sitting in caves, grunting, and wearing loin clothes.
 

CDNBear

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Theres' bullies in every situation, just look at the "support the troops" crowd, and that there are nutjobs on pretty much EVERY issue has nothing to do with the marriage of the state and the corporations .
I would be one of those "Support the Troops" crowd guys mabudon,
. And yes I have been guilty of a bellicose nature, but I don't hide it or deny it either. I'm not blinded by some ideology, as many are.

Bullies and nutjobs and fascism are separate things
I dissagree, IMHO, they are all one in the same, cept maybe nutjobs, I think the LPoC just needs medication(sorry, I couldn't resist).

It is funny how applying the label "fascism" to anything right wing gets shouted down by the same folks who will dig it up and slap it on something more left wing and call it "telling" :D
But is there a difference if one uses it with proof or examples, varified by context of their difinition?
 

CDNBear

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I don't get it. I don't even understand the point of all this. Apparently the left are fascists because our environment is degrading at a scary rate, and they are proposing that we actually do something about it...and that makes them fascist in your eyes? Just because you and your right wing extremist buddies don't think that man has helped the escalation in global warming...something that makes PERFECT sense if you actually sit down and think about it...doesn't mean it isn't happening. And, the idea that because the left is proposing changed in our lifestyles in order to help the situation they are fascists is...well...idiotic. It's proposing a solution...and it's one that we might not have any choice in deciding, because it won't be up to governments or any individual group, we will have to as a race come together to do something about it. How much time do we have? Beats me. What will happen? I dunno. But it is clear that something big is going on...it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure that one out. This is an issue that transcends left and right anyway...there are leftist governments and conservative governments across the globe who are working on this issue. And, the only thing that is going to make any difference is a drastic change in how humans live, and act, and use resources. And you can look at these changes as being unwelcome and those who deliver the message as fascists...or you can look at this as an exciting time of discovery, rebirth, redirecting, the moving towards a healthier society for all, a monumental time in the history of mankind that could very well prove to be known as a time when the human race was saved from itself. I look at it as the latter. The fact of the matter is...things change. If we stay stuck where you would like them to stay, society will never grow, society will never progress, and will become stagnint. Growth and change and evolution is important to man kind. If nothing changed, we would still be sitting in caves, grunting, and wearing loin clothes.
Your rant is just more proof you are having difficulty with reading. Try and keep up, go back and reread my posts, you obviously haven't.
 

snfu73

disturber of the peace
I would be one of those "Support the Troops" crowd guys mabudon,
. And yes I have been guilty of a bellicose nature, but I don't hide it or deny it either. I'm not blinded by some ideology, as many are.

I dissagree, IMHO, they are all one in the same, cept maybe nutjobs, I think the LPoC just needs medication(sorry, I couldn't resist).


But is there a difference if one uses it with proof or examples, varified by context of their difinition?
Isn't support the troops being blinded by some idealogy? Isn't raging against leftists being blinded by idealogy? Uhhhh...yes...it is. You can't even SEE a leftist perspective from your right wing elitist position. You just think right is right, and that's it. You are completely one hundred percent biased. You are completely blind. The only people as blind as you are the catholic folks who are so stuck in their ways in the other threads. Most of the crap you post is nothing but opinion articles, or you seek out the most extreme representations and go "SEE...SEE what those leftists do!". Dude...your blind.
 

CDNBear

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Not to mention snfu, you employeed several of the tactics I have out lined.

I'm brainwashed

I'm idiotic

I don't understand the issue

and so on.

Nothing like shooting yourself in the foot eh?
 

snfu73

disturber of the peace
Your rant is just more proof you are having difficulty with reading. Try and keep up, go back and reread my posts, you obviously haven't.
What the hell are you talking about. I looked at the article. This is my response to part of what I read. I will go back and read, but I don't get where all this is going, or what you are trying to pull. All you are doing is presenting opinion articles and claiming they are fact. They aren't fact...in fact they are FAR from fact. But, I will go back and see what I missed here.
 

snfu73

disturber of the peace
Not to mention snfu, you employeed several of the tactics I have out lined.

I'm brainwashed

I'm idiotic

I don't understand the issue

and so on.

Nothing like shooting yourself in the foot eh?
That would be because...it appears that you most definitly are. I did not say brainwashed...but, I do believe that you are very misguided. I don't think you are looking at the issue objectively, or allowing any other perspectives in. I think you are stubborn as hell. I think you are a dick. And so on.
 

snfu73

disturber of the peace
A new fascist movement is on the rise, and proponents of individual liberty are losing ground.
Left-wingers often accuse conservatives of being fascists, but the reality is that fascism is simply another form of collectivism, like socialism and communism. The differences, such as they exist, are marginal between these collectivist ideologies when viewed from the perspective of Liberalism. Fascism idolizes the state, socialists idolize “society” and communists idolize “humanity” as a whole.


Davis Guggenheim shares his Oscar with former US Vice President Al Gore after winning an award for his documentary feature 'An Inconvenient Truth' at the 79th Annual Academy Awards in Hollywood, California, February 25, 2007. REUTERS/Gary Hershorn (UNITED STATES - OSCARS)


What holds these ideologies together is much stronger than what divides them: they are all dedicated to the proposition that the rights and desires of individuals are properly subsumed by the needs of the whole. Individualism is selfishness, rights are collective, and the “good” of the whole is the true measure of society.
Collectivism has been like a chronic disease in the body politic ever since the birth of Liberal Individualism in the 18th Century. For Locke, there was Rousseau. The American Revolution contrasted with the French Revolution and its guillotine. America had George Washington and Europe had Napoleon. Lincoln saved the Union as Marx was promoting Communism in Europe. . For the last 300 years we in the Western world have been living in the midst of a struggle between the forces of Liberal individualism and the forces of collectivism.
Communism and fascism dominated much of 20th Century history as the alternative to Liberal individualism and free markets. Democratic socialism is still eating away at European societies, which grow poorer and more sclerotic every year as they continue to declare the superiority of their model to American individualism.
Even here in America, the home of Liberal individualism, there is a constant assault on individual liberty. The steady growth of economic regulations, income redistribution, speech codes (New York just banned the use of a racial slur in public!), the ever growing tax code, and ridiculous limits to what we can eat, drink, or smoke.
Still, compared to most of the developed world, American is remarkably free for the moment. And that’s a nagging problem for the believers in collectivism.
So today we are witnessing the rise of a new version of the same old collectivist ideal; instead of the State or Humanity being elevated above individualism, it’s an idealized version of the environment or the “Earth.” Call it Nature, call it Gaia, or even call it Climate, the ideologists of collectivism are just trying to sell us a new reason to subsume our individual liberty to a collectivist whole.
The “crisis” of global climate change is a ridiculous on its face. The very concept is bizarre and illogical, if for no other reason than simply because there is not a default “standard” climate to compare any particular momentary climate state to. Compared to what, exactly?
Today’s climate is quite different from that of even a few hundred years ago, and once you go back a few thousand years—a blink of the eye in the lifespan of the earth—much of the earth that is farmland and cities was buried under thousands of feet of ice. If you could run the history of earth’s climate as a movie, it would be a constantly changing before your eyes. No one minute looking much like the next. Different climate, different species, even different arrangements of continents and oceans would dominate at any given moment.
Simply put, there is no permanent “state of Nature.” Nature, Climate, the Earth, or “climate”—whatever you want to call it—is not some permanent unchanging ideal. It’s so dynamic that even in the span of a few years or decades changes can render a landscape unrecognizable, fundamentally altered.
“Climate change” is not something induced by human beings or a “crisis” to be avoided; it is simply the reality of living on earth. To the extent that human activities may contribute to climate variability, the same can be said of termites, trees, and even the slow action of plate tectonics. It’s true, but what’s your point? Literally everything changes the state of the earth, all the time. Fighting change is like fighting gravity; good luck! Call me when you succeed.
The steady drumbeat of fear mongering has nothing to do with a “crisis” of climate change, because climate change is not a crisis. It was reality before human beings existed, and will be long after we are all buried.
However, it has everything to do with promoting the solution to the crisis of climate change: the demotion of individualism and liberty and the promotion of collective solutions and collectivism in general.

http://www.townhall.com/columnists/...ry_fascism&ns=DavidStrom&dt=03/01/2007&page=1
So...again..this is an opinion column. This is not fact. This is not news. This is opinion. And there is no reference to anything to really back up the assertations put forth in the column. There is nothing to back the claims this dude makes. Sooooo....what's the point? What are you trying to say with this thing? Are you trying to tell us that some lunatic right winger has a wacked out viewpoint? Greeeaaat...thanks for filling us in.
 

CDNBear

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Isn't support the troops being blinded by some idealogy?
Sure it is. I don't deny it. Blind loyalty for ones brothers and sisters in my ideology is honourable.

Isn't raging against leftists being blinded by idealogy?
Umm, no, it's raging against their corruption lies and thievery.

Uhhhh...yes...it is. You can't even SEE a leftist perspective from your right wing elitist position. You just think right is right, and that's it. You are completely one hundred percent biased.You are completely blind.
No I'm not and I can prove it, you can not prove I am.
The only people as blind as you are the catholic folks who are so stuck in their ways in the other threads.
I can still prove you're wrong.

Most of the crap you post is nothing but opinion articles, or you seek out the most extreme representations and go "SEE...SEE what those leftists do!". Dude...your blind.
No I'm not, I examine everything and build my position on facts and material at hand. I didn't blindly follow the anti GW warming folk, I made a consious decission, when the evidence was in, I changed my position, I believe it is happening, but I don't buy the motives or the theory of AGW.

The fact that I don't makes me somehow deficient in your eyes, and yet it is I that is blind? Really now!!!???
 

CDNBear

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That would be because...it appears that you most definitly are. I did not say brainwashed...but, I do believe that you are very misguided. I don't think you are looking at the issue objectively, or allowing any other perspectives in. I think you are stubborn as hell. I think you are a dick. And so on.
More proof that anyone that does not follow your theories and point of view is "wacked" out.

Really, you should stop handling firearms, if you don't know which end you should point at the enemy.
 

snfu73

disturber of the peace
Sure it is. I don't deny it. Blind loyalty for ones brothers and sisters in my ideology is honourable.


Umm, no, it's raging against their corruption lies and thievery.


No I'm not and I can prove it, you can not prove I am.

I can still prove you're wrong.


No I'm not, I examine everything and build my position on facts and material at hand. I didn't blindly follow the anti GW warming folk, I made a consious decission, when the evidence was in, I changed my position, I believe it is happening, but I don't buy the motives or the theory of AGW.

The fact that I don't makes me somehow deficient in your eyes, and yet it is I that is blind? Really now!!!???
Alright, buddy...then could you present some FACTS then, instead of giving us this ****? You keep claiming that you build your crap on facts...but...where are they? I don't see any. Give me some.
 

#juan

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Fascism - definition

A totalitarian philosophy of government that glorifies the state and nation and assigns to the state control over every aspect of national life. The name was first used by the party started by Benito Mussolini , who ruled Italy from 1922 until the Italian defeat in World War II. However, it has also been applied to similar ideologies in other countries, e.g., to National Socialism in Germany and to the regime of Francisco Franco in Spain.

The above is a definition of fascism. We must remember that in the examples given, the people had no rights except those allowed by the dictator. Criticism of the government was most often met with a death sentence or at the very least a long term in prison. To refer to any party in Canadian politics as fascists is more than a bit ridiculous.
 

snfu73

disturber of the peace
More proof that anyone that does not follow your theories and point of view is "wacked" out.

Really, you should stop handling firearms, if you don't know which end you should point at the enemy.
Well, when I read this guy, I read some pretty extreme talk...so...ya, I say wacked out. If he had even presented these same ideas in a more rational tone, I could maybe take it seriously. But, the way he presents himself and his ideas, it sounds so extreme and scary and...wacked out to me.
 

tamarin

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Juan, come on. Language isn't static. Now compare the dictionary of liberal to the Liberals and conservative to the Conservatives. Flux rules. The Liberal Party has been uno for some time.
 

CDNBear

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Alright, buddy...then could you present some FACTS then, instead of giving us this ****? You keep claiming that you build your crap on facts...but...where are they? I don't see any. Give me some.
Go back and read my posts in this thread or any of the multitude of GW threads, where my opinion based on and backed up with data from NASA and other credible Climatologists such as Ball, is dismissed as I am dismissed as ignorant, uneducated and so on as are most of the sceptics of the whole AGW and its supports.

The above is a definition of fascism. We must remember that in the examples given, the people had no rights except those allowed by the dictator. Criticism of the government was most often met with a death sentence or at the very least a long term in prison. To refer to any party in Canadian politics as fascists is more than a bit ridiculous.
I would agree, that a continued blanketing of the Liberals or any other political party with that title would be ridiculous, but there are aspects in each party's actions that would by examplar of such a definition, Trudeaus use of the WMA, would be one. And by defacto idolization of Trudeau, that action is embraced. Therefore...

Well, when I read this guy, I read some pretty extreme talk...so...ya, I say wacked out. If he had even presented these same ideas in a more rational tone, I could maybe take it seriously. But, the way he presents himself and his ideas, it sounds so extreme and scary and...wacked out to me.
So by only attacking this article and myself, but failing to do the same of the pro AGW extremists, that have threatened and coerced scientists, would make you what?
 

CDNBear

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Threats of death or what have you being the cornerstone of the fascist environment, this is a prime example of fascism in the pro AGW community, do you not agree?

Scientists threatened for 'climate denial'

By Tom Harper, Sunday Telegraph

Last Updated: 12:24am GMT 11/03/2007

Scientists who questioned mankind's impact on climate change have received death threats and claim to have been shunned by the scientific community.
They say the debate on global warming has been "hijacked" by a powerful alliance of politicians, scientists and environmentalists who have stifled all questioning about the true environmental impact of carbon dioxide emissions.
Timothy Ball, a former climatology professor at the University of Winnipeg in Canada, has received five deaths threats by email since raising concerns about the degree to which man was affecting climate change...
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2007/03/11/ngreen211.xml
 

#juan

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Juan, come on. Language isn't static. Now compare the dictionary of liberal to the Liberals and conservative to the Conservatives. Flux rules. The Liberal Party has been uno for some time.

If we call the Liberals fascists, what do we call Benito Mussolini's crowd? Referring to any Canadian political party as fascists with anything but tongue in cheek in an attempt to make a stronger superlative is just plain silly. A fascist is still a fascist. Some meanings are static.
 

CDNBear

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If we call the Liberals fascists, what do we call Benito Mussolini's crowd? Referring to any Canadian political party as fascists with anything but tongue in cheek in an attempt to make a stronger superlative is just plain silly. A fascist is still a fascist. Some meanings are static.
Perhaps I was erroneous in calling the LPoC fascists, at some point in time, but you can not deny that the party has committed acts, that would fall in to the deffinition of fascist, nor can you really deny that the act of threat or coercion, to force one to fall into or follow one train of thought is not fascist, as well.
 

CDNBear

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His point is don't worry about the definition, there isn't one we'll tell you what it means when we come for you.:smile:
rotflmffao!!!

Leave it up to you, to throw a humourous curve ball out.

Let me ask you a question, in all seriousness Beav...

I know you're a serious socialist, so if by chance the socialist movement had the opportunity to "force" the socialist ideology on the Nation, should it be taken, or would you only except it, if it were democratically installed?