The Big Lie--They're Fighting for Our Freedom

Ocean Breeze

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jjw1965 said:
I've read that the cancer rate is up 700% from the D.U. that around from the first gulf war. :(

I have read that too......on several sources .......

Naturally THIS doesn't make it to mainstream news at all , does it.??

Selective reporting, selective listening .....etc etc. :evil3:
 

Musicman

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jjw1965 said:
orchestrated both events anyway?!?!? yup ... I would sure as hell categorize this as ultra extremism!
Well I guess if telling the facts gets you listed as an extremist, then so be it!
Fact is there are too many pieces of evidence pointing to the US and Britain governments of involvment in both terrorist acts.

It's not paranoia if they are really after you. Get a grip. Both governments orchestated both events? That is plain absurd.
 

Ocean Breeze

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Musicman said:
jjw1965 said:
orchestrated both events anyway?!?!? yup ... I would sure as hell categorize this as ultra extremism!
Well I guess if telling the facts gets you listed as an extremist, then so be it!
Fact is there are too many pieces of evidence pointing to the US and Britain governments of involvment in both terrorist acts.

It's not paranoia if they are really after you. Get a grip. Both governments orchestated both events? That is plain absurd.

Not really. Would not dimiss it all that quickly. There is a nuance in all this that is being missed. The gov't s as such may not have actually done the act itself.......but indirectly provoked the terrorists to carry them out. .......so yes, the gov't are both responsible. .......indirectly. They did not have to be onsite......to put the bombs in place to be passive collaborators in the events. Cause and effect. These "terror" acts have also empowered both gov'ts even more. (a side benefit , so to speak)
 

peapod

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Nascar you already posted that link in another post, its not proof of anything! especially from a newspaper owned by by reverend sun myung moon's unification church. Your own president said so himself..get real!
 

Nascar_James

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peapod said:
Nascar you already posted that link in another post, its not proof of anything! especially from a newspaper owned by by reverend sun myung moon's unification church. Your own president said so himself..get real!

Peapod, you are correct in that the Washington Times is owned by Sun Myung Moon, who usually keeps a low profile. However, why would a newspaper who's owner has ties to Communist North Korea (Sun Myung Moon is very close friends with Kim Jong Il) write about ties between Saddam and Al Qaeda if it weren't true? What has he to gain? This guy is a perfect example of someone being so far right that he's actually left.
 

jjw1965

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Musicman Wrote:
It's not paranoia if they are really after you. Get a grip. Both governments orchestated both events? That is plain absurd.
Funny how the US was having drills of planes hitting buildings on 9/11 at the same exact time that the planes hit, lets see, NORAD was told to stand down, before the plane hit the pentagon no jets were scrambled when a base was 10 minutes from the pentagon, in London they were having a drill of bombs going off at the same time as the bombing, passengers couldn't get on at certain terminals and seen military at the terminals that the bombs went off. problem reaction solution, create a problem, get a reaction, and offer your solution!
 

jjw1965

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operation northwoods

The Rise Of The Fourth Reich

30-year Anniversary: Tonkin Gulf Lie Launched Vietnam War

Sword Play: Attacking Civilians to Justify "Greater Security"

Agency planned exercise on Sept. 11 built around a plane crashing into a building

Scrambled F15’s From Otis Air Force Base:
Mach 1.5 or Cruise Speed?


Found: The 911 "Stand Down Order"?

Secretary of Transportation Norman Mineta was in the
Presidential Emergency Operating Center with Vice President Cheney as
Flight 77 approached Washington, D.C. On May 23, 2003 in front of the
9/11 Commission, Secretary Mineta testified:

"During the time that the airplane was coming in to the Pentagon, there
was a young man who would come in and say to the Vice President, "The plane is 50 miles out." "The plane is 30 miles out." And when it got
down to "the plane is 10 miles out," the young man also said to the Vice
President, "Do the orders still stand?" And the Vice President turned
and whipped his neck around and said, "Of course the orders still stand.
Have you heard anything to the contrary?"
 

Musicman

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jjw1965 said:
Musicman Wrote:
It's not paranoia if they are really after you. Get a grip. Both governments orchestated both events? That is plain absurd.
Funny how the US was having drills of planes hitting buildings on 9/11 at the same exact time that the planes hit, lets see, NORAD was told to stand down, before the plane hit the pentagon no jets were scrambled when a base was 10 minutes from the pentagon, in London they were having a drill of bombs going off at the same time as the bombing, passengers couldn't get on at certain terminals and seen military at the terminals that the bombs went off. problem reaction solution, create a problem, get a reaction, and offer your solution!

You guys are incredible. If that was true, do you really think Bush would have been in Florida reading to kids?
 

Haggis McBagpipe

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Jun 11, 2004
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Musicman said:
You guys are incredible. If that was true, do you really think Bush would have been in Florida reading to kids?

I won't comment on the conspiracy theory itself, but if true, where better for the president's photo-op? The president reading to children, it just doesn't get more authentic, more touching, more effective... well, except, of course, for the upside-down book he's 'reading' from. :D
 

Musicman

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Ocean Breeze said:
Musicman said:
jjw1965 said:
orchestrated both events anyway?!?!? yup ... I would sure as hell categorize this as ultra extremism!
Well I guess if telling the facts gets you listed as an extremist, then so be it!
Fact is there are too many pieces of evidence pointing to the US and Britain governments of involvment in both terrorist acts.

It's not paranoia if they are really after you. Get a grip. Both governments orchestated both events? That is plain absurd.

Not really. Would not dimiss it all that quickly. There is a nuance in all this that is being missed. The gov't s as such may not have actually done the act itself.......but indirectly provoked the terrorists to carry them out. .......so yes, the gov't are both responsible. .......indirectly. They did not have to be onsite......to put the bombs in place to be passive collaborators in the events. Cause and effect. These "terror" acts have also empowered both gov'ts even more. (a side benefit , so to speak)

Once again: There were several "first strike" attacks by the terrorists, including the first WTC bombing, the embassies overseas, the USS Cole, then the WTC. So, tell me again how the govt "indirectly provoked" the terrorists? Oh wait, I know, they put all these targets in harms way, starting with the Democrat Clinton, so that years later someone could finish off the WTC job, and then the Republican Bush could go after Iraq and its resources (your claim, not mine regarding the resources). This scenario would not even pass for good fiction, yet you want me and others to believe this is the truth? Mulder is still laughing!
 

Ocean Breeze

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Musicman said:
Ocean Breeze said:
Musicman said:
jjw1965 said:
orchestrated both events anyway?!?!? yup ... I would sure as hell categorize this as ultra extremism!
Well I guess if telling the facts gets you listed as an extremist, then so be it!
Fact is there are too many pieces of evidence pointing to the US and Britain governments of involvment in both terrorist acts.

It's not paranoia if they are really after you. Get a grip. Both governments orchestated both events? That is plain absurd.

Not really. Would not dimiss it all that quickly. There is a nuance in all this that is being missed. The gov't s as such may not have actually done the act itself.......but indirectly provoked the terrorists to carry them out. .......so yes, the gov't are both responsible. .......indirectly. They did not have to be onsite......to put the bombs in place to be passive collaborators in the events. Cause and effect. These "terror" acts have also empowered both gov'ts even more. (a side benefit , so to speak)

Once again: There were several "first strike" attacks by the terrorists, including the first WTC bombing, the embassies overseas, the USS Cole, then the WTC. So, tell me again how the govt "indirectly provoked" the terrorists? Oh wait, I know, they put all these targets in harms way, starting with the Democrat Clinton, so that years later someone could finish off the WTC job, and then the Republican Bush could go after Iraq and its resources (your claim, not mine regarding the resources). This scenario would not even pass for good fiction, yet you want me and others to believe this is the truth? Mulder is still laughing!


that sounds so much like a regurgitation of the bushcon , :roll: it cannot be taken seriously. (and yes, if it were not so tragic, it would be very humorous) The only thing that can be taken seriously about the bush and his cons.......is that they LOVE war..... it makes them feel powerful, invincible, .....and they will not be inclined to surrender this heady experience for anything. They are addicted now. They are addicted to the thill of war. the "action" and heck ......the bloody kill of it too. The "war " stylized photo shoots. They will lie, cheat, manipulate and scare a population into believing anything just so they could have their wars now. This is the new (and not improved) US reputation and image now. They are on one hell of a power trip ......and power itself is probably the most seductive addiction available to mankind. Everything else is just spin, lies, manipulations. In this power trip........they have lost their point of center and a sense of reality. Truth was the first casualty ........as it is with ALL ADDICTIONS. Soon "they " will be needing another "fix"........and one can only pity and grieve for the next victim. (country). They have sampled the taste of "blood"....... (that comes with the power of war...... and no rehab can help them now.
 

Ocean Breeze

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The Vietnamization of Bush's Vacation

By FRANK RICH
Published: August 28, 2005
ANOTHER week in Iraq, another light at the end of the tunnel. On Monday President Bush saluted the Iraqis for "completing work on a democratic constitution" even as the process was breaking down yet again. But was anyone even listening to his latest premature celebration?

We have long since lost count of all the historic turning points and fast-evaporating victories hyped by this president. The toppling of Saddam's statue, "Mission Accomplished," the transfer of sovereignty and the purple fingers all blur into a hallucinatory loop of delusion. One such red-letter day, some may dimly recall, was the adoption of the previous, interim constitution in March 2004, also proclaimed a "historic milestone" by Mr. Bush. Within a month after that fabulous victory, the insurgency boiled over into the war we have today, taking, among many others, the life of Casey Sheehan.

It's Casey Sheehan's mother, not those haggling in Baghdad's Green Zone, who really changed the landscape in the war this month. Not because of her bumper-sticker politics or the slick left-wing political operatives who have turned her into a circus, but because the original, stubborn fact of her grief brought back the dead the administration had tried for so long to lock out of sight. With a shove from Pat Robertson, her 15 minutes are now up, but even Mr. Robertson's antics revealed buyer's remorse about Iraq; his stated motivation for taking out Hugo Chávez by assassination was to avoid "another $200 billion war" to remove a dictator.

In the wake of Ms. Sheehan's protest, the facts on the ground in America have changed almost everywhere. The president, for one, has been forced to make what for him is the ultimate sacrifice: jettisoning chunks of vacation to defend the war in any bunker he can find in Utah or Idaho. In the first speech of this offensive, he even felt compelled to take the uncharacteristic step of citing the number of American dead in public (though the number was already out of date by at least five casualties by day's end). For the second, the White House recruited its own mom, Tammy Pruett, for the president to showcase as an antidote to Ms. Sheehan. But in a reversion to the president's hide-the-fallen habit, the chosen mother was not one who had lost a child in Iraq.

It isn't just Mr. Bush who is in a tight corner now. Ms. Sheehan's protest was the catalyst for a new national argument about the war that managed to expose both the intellectual bankruptcy of its remaining supporters on the right and the utter bankruptcy of the Democrats who had rubber-stamped this misadventure in the first place.

When the war's die-hard cheerleaders attacked the Middle East policy of a mother from Vacaville, Calif., instead of defending the president's policy in Iraq, it was definitive proof that there is little cogent defense left to be made. When the Democrats offered no alternative to either Mr. Bush's policy or Ms. Sheehan's plea for an immediate withdrawal, it was proof that they have no standing in the debate.

Instead, two conservative Republicans - actually talking about Iraq instead of Ms. Sheehan, unlike the rest of their breed - stepped up to fill this enormous vacuum: Chuck Hagel and Henry Kissinger. Both pointedly invoked Vietnam, the war that forged their political careers. Their timing, like Ms. Sheehan's, was impeccable. Last week Mr. Bush started saying that the best way to honor the dead would be to "finish the task they gave their lives for" - a dangerous rationale that, as David Halberstam points out, was heard as early as 1963 in Vietnam, when American casualties in that fiasco were still inching toward 100.

And what exactly is our task? Mr. Bush's current definition - "as the Iraqis stand up, we will stand down" - could not be a better formula for quagmire. Twenty-eight months after the fall of Saddam, only "a small number" of Iraqi troops are capable of fighting without American assistance, according to the Pentagon - a figure that Joseph Biden puts at "fewer than 3,000." At this rate, our 138,000 troops will be replaced by self-sufficient locals in roughly 100 years.


amazing series of lies..... and the American population is letting him get away with this crap.????? Go figure.
 

Jo Canadian

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Mar 15, 2005
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PEI...for now
 

jjw1965

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You guys are incredible. If that was true, do you really think Bush would have been in Florida reading to kids?
Free Press International
10.31.2004

Mainstream media reports over and over that Bush remained seated at Booker Elementary School after hearing the 2nd plane hit the World Trade Center because he didn't want to scare the kids.

President Bush was told the 2nd plane hit the tower at approximately 9:07 AM and continued reading with the children.

President Bush's next actions are quite revealing. He holds a 9:30 AM press conference at the school and guess who's there? The kids!
 

Ocean Breeze

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Jo Canadian said:


there is something gravely wrong with the last 'toon/graphic.;-)

( instead of big ears......( he don't listen to anyone anyhow)......the emphasis should be on a BIG LONG NOSE. So much more fitting and "in character" :wink: :)
 

Ocean Breeze

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IRAQ: Corporate greed drives war and occupation
Rohan Pearce, Green Left Weekly


August 28, 2005

“War, what is it good for?”, asked Edwin Starr in his 1970 hit single “War”. The answer he gave was “absolutely nothin'!”, a sentiment no doubt shared by most people. But for the owners of the euphemistically named “defence” industry, war — with all its attendant bloodshed and human suffering — is an opportunity to make megabucks. The invasion and occupation of Iraq has not proven an exception.

The lies about Iraqi weapons of mass destruction made by US President George Bush and the neoconservatives who are a driving force in his administration may have died an ugly public death, but the real reasons for the invasion of Iraq still remain obscured in the warmongers' flowery speeches. For example, in an August 20 radio address, Bush said: “We're fighting the terrorists in Afghanistan, Iraq, and around the world, striking them in foreign lands before they can attack us here at home. And we're spreading the hope of freedom across the broader Middle East. By advancing the cause of liberty in a troubled region, we are bringing security to our own citizens and laying the foundations of peace for our children and grandchildren.”

The reality is, of course, that Bush's “war on terror” has nothing to do with fighting terrorism or spreading the “hope of freedom” (much less actually spreading freedom).

“War is merely the continuation of policy by other means”, said the Prussian 19th century general Karl von Clausewitz. In the 20th and 21st centuries this has translated to First World governments using their armed forces to protect the investments of their country's capitalists in Third World countries, and to defend the “right” of their country's corporate elite to exploit the raw materials, markets and labour of the poor countries. The “global war on terror”, charmingly abbreviated as “the GWOT” by the Pentagon, is no different.

From the beginning of the GWOT, Iraq was in the White House's firing line by virtue of its abundant oil resources, which potentially spell a dollar bonanza for US energy corporations, and the strategic role that a pro-US regime in Baghdad could play in cementing Washington's domination of the oil-rich Middle East.

At a White House meeting the day after the 9/11 terrorist attacks, US defence secretary Donald Rumsfeld argued that the US should use the terrorist attacks to justify a war against Iraq, despite there being no connection between 9/11 attacks and Saddam Hussein's regime.

Present at the meeting, along with Bush and then secretary of state Colin Powell, was Richard Clarke, the US National Security Council's counter-terrorism adviser at the time. In his 2004 book Against All Enemies: Inside America's War on Terror, Clarke wrote: “At first I was incredulous that we were talking about something other than getting al Qaeda. I realized with almost a sharp physical pain that Rumsfeld and [then US deputy secretary of defence Paul] Wolfowitz were going to try to take advantage of this national tragedy to promote their agenda about Iraq.”

According to Clarke, Powell argued that Afghanistan had to be the first target of the “war on terror” because “public opinion has to be prepared before a move against Iraq is possible”.

It had long been the view of the neocons that “regime change” in Iraq would help usher in a new era of unrestrained US global power in the post-Soviet era. In January 1998, a letter from the infamous neoconservative think-tank Project for a New American Century to then US president Bill Clinton urged “the removal of Saddam Hussein's regime from power”. Almost as an aside the letter also noted that Iraq possessed a “significant portion of the world's supply of oil”.

The letter's signatories included Rumsfeld, Wolfowitz and a range of other neocons who later found jobs in Bush junior's administration, including Richard Armitage, Robert Zoellick and Zalmay Khalilzad (who is now US ambassador to Iraq). So when the neocons took over in Washington after the 2000 presidential election, it was no surprise that “taking out” Saddam Hussein's regime was put on the White House's agenda.

According to the US government's Energy Information Administration, Iraq's proven oil reserves amount to 115 billion barrels and there is a strong possibility of substantially more oil in unexplored areas. In addition, the country has natural gas reserves of at least 3.12 trillion cubic metres. For US oil corporations this represented a massive potential windfall if Saddam Hussein was ousted.

British investigative journalist Greg Palast claimed in March this year that he had uncovered evidence proving that plans for Iraq's oil had already begun to be drawn up shortly after Bush took office in 2001. According to Palast, whose claims were aired on BBC's Newsnight program on March 17, there were disagreements between the neocons and oil company executives about the most desirable way to carve up Iraq's natural resources — the neocons favoured hell-for-leather privatisation while the oil executives favoured the creation of a new Iraqi state-run oil company that would give “favourable” treatment to US corporations. Either way, it would be US corporations that reaped the oil profits from regime change.

That the Pentagon chiefs would sacrifice the lives of tens of thousands of Iraqis and of thousands of US soldiers for the bottom-lines of the corporate rich is nothing new. As US Major-General Smedley Butler pointed out, war is a racket. In his 1935 book of that title, Butler explained: “I spent 33 years and four months in active military service as a member of this country's most agile military force, the Marine Corps... And during that period, I spent most of my time being a high-class muscleman for big business, for Wall Street and for the bankers. In short, I was a racketeer, a gangster for capitalism...

“I helped make Mexico ... safe for American oil interests in 1914. I helped make Haiti and Cuba a decent place for the National City Bank boys to collect revenues in. I helped in the raping of half a dozen Central American republics for the benefit of Wall Street. The record of racketeering is long.”

Even the crisis-stricken occupation of Iraq, challenged by a predominantly indigenous resistance movement, is an opportunity for corporate gluttony (a “crisatunity”, as Homer Simpson might put it). The Pentagon continues to rack up huge bills in its struggle to terrorise Iraqi's into submission to Washington's rule and the bulk of this money finds its way back into the bank accounts of US corporations — “corporate welfare” on a mammoth scale.

Linda Bilmes, a former assistant secretary at the US commerce department, argued in an August 20 New York Times op-ed that “if the American military presence in the [Middle East] lasts another five years, the total outlay for the war could stretch to more than $1.3 trillion...

“The cost goes well beyond the more than $250 billion already spent on military operations and reconstruction. Basic running costs of the current conflicts are $6 billion a month — a figure that reflects the Pentagon's unprecedented reliance on expensive private contractors.”

In September 2004, the Washington-based Center for Public Integrity released a study showing that half of the Pentagon's annual budgeted expenditure went directly to private corporations. In the six years leading up to the study, the proportion remained unchanged. But, as the CPI study points out, as the US “defence” budget has grown ever more massive thanks to the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, “so have the dollars going to contractors”.

This massive transfer of public wealth to private corporations through war spending is far from unique to the US. In Australia, year after year, the federal and state governments tear public education and health funding to shreds. But the Australian military consistently gets a budget bonanza — in 2005 Australia's “defence” budget was A$17.5 billion. Like the famous graffiti slogan goes, “It will be a great day when our schools get all the money they need, and the army has to hold a cake stall to buy a bomber”.

But it is in the US that the amount of money wasted on the business of war reaches a truly obscene pinnacle. According to an April 27 report released by accountancy group PricewaterhouseCoopers, US military spending reached US$417.4 billion in 2003 — 47% of total world military spending. The report noted that “the US defence budget has increased by 60% in constant US$ over the last ten years”.

As Butler's classic anti-war tract argued: “War is a racket. It always has been. It is possibly the oldest, easily the most profitable, surely the most vicious. It is the only one international in scope. It is the only one in which the profits are reckoned in dollars and the losses in lives...

“How many of these war millionaires shouldered a rifle? How many of them dug a trench? How many of them knew what it meant to go hungry in a rat-infested dug-out? How many of them spent sleepless, frightened nights, ducking shells and shrapnel and machine gun bullets? How many of them parried a bayonet thrust of an enemy? How many of them were wounded or killed in battle?

“Out of war nations acquire additional territory, if they are victorious. They just take it. This newly acquired territory promptly is exploited by the few — the selfsame few who wrung dollars out of blood in the war. The general public shoulders the bill.”

And the bill, wrote Butler, “renders a horrible accounting. Newly placed gravestones. Mangled bodies. Shattered minds. Broken hearts and homes. Economic instability. Depression and all its attendant miseries. Back-breaking taxation for generations and generations.” Any of that sound familiar?

anyone STILL really believe the bullcrap that bushcons spew like verbal diarhea ????