The Big Lie--They're Fighting for Our Freedom

[Nascar_James]

We were attacked on 9/11 because we let our guard down and took freedom for granted. Maintaining our freedom unfortunately has a price but the cost is small considering the alternative.

The bush mantra again. Sheesh. Don't you guys stop and THINK for yourselves???

The cost of "maintaining" your freedom......is eroding your freedom as you speak.


The US was attacked by TERRORISTS. the US was NOT MILITARILY attacked to warrant a war response. dealing with terrorism is an entirely different ballgame. It is the bush cabal that decided this was such a golden opportunity and used 9-11 to further the agenda they had in mind since they took office.

How sad , that the likes of yourself don't see the truth for what it is. How sad to see, the likes of yourself buy into the bush rhetoric ( LIES) hook line and sinker. But each to his own. Bush is the only LIER in this entire scenario. Whether some of you will ever see it / or accept it ......is another story. The bush supporters (blind as they are) will continue to spin, justify and RATIONALIZE bush 's pathological conduct. .......and be willing to blindly sacrifice .......more and more .......as time goes on... Meanwhile the "freedoms" that are supposed to be protected are being eroded right in front of them .........and get this: With their blessing. The bush supporters ("yes" men/women) will rationalize this with "gotta make "sacrifices" for our freedoms......and nation. ......While BASHING and character assassinating , people who speak truths, and ask for truths. Does not get much dirtier than what "we" see now. "they" cannot argue /debate on an equal footing with the TRUTH........so they attack the person. Cheap shots .......all of it. :twisted:

Interesting process taking place.

bush the lier told his yes population, that Iraq Had WMD that posed an IMMINET threat to the US and the world at large.. And the yes people bought that lie. .......and some still say "WMD " will be found. Rather illusive aren't they?? Meanwhile bush has virtually destroyed a nation........Killed thousands , while protecting natural resources in said nation.


(an aside, but relavent)...... wanna know why the rest of the world considers most Americans "stupid"??? Most don't think for themselves, are too lazy , creature comfort oreinted to do so and simply lap up what their insane administration tells them. Most simply take the line of least resistance.....and end up uninformed,

Quite troubling to see what used to be a progressive and exciting nation deteriorate this way.

Let us remember that negociating with terrorists is not an option. They attacked us on 9/11 and now we are going after them. When attacked, we do not stand by and do nothing. It will be a cold day in hell when we stand idle and let the terrorists walk all over us.

 

[jjw1965]

Let us remember that negociating with terrorists is not an option. They attacked us on 9/11 and now we are going after them. When attacked, we do not stand by and do nothing. It will be a cold day in hell when we stand idle and let the terrorists walk all over us.

Read Operation Northwoods (google search will find it)and see how capable our government is at pulling off 9/11.

One Nation Under Fox News and Misled

 

[Nascar_James]

Nascar_James Wrote:

We were attacked on 9/11 because we let our guard down and took freedom for granted. Maintaining our freedom unfortunately has a price but the cost is small considering the alternative.

First of all, the whole notion that we were attacked by the al-qaeda (excuse me) al-cia-duh, automatically points the finger to the US government, since the so called al-qaeda was created by the C.I.A. in the first place.
If you read on the website "Project for a new American Century" a government website, you can look up the article "rebuilding America's Defenses" written by the likes of John Bolton and Dick Cheney where they clearly talk of the difficulty of getting agendas passed, if not for "a new Pearl Harbor type event" So I think we did let our guard down, we let it down when we trusted our government to protect us in the first place!

There are undoubtedly many government projects that occur behind the scenes that we are not aware of. These projects are for the preservation of our national security, they are there for our benefit. There is a reason why we haven't been re-attacked since 9/11. Our government obviously has a strategy that is working.

As for creating Al Qaeda, we did not create Al Qaeda, however we did help Bin Laden when Afghanistan was fighting the Russians. Back then it was in our best interest to prevent the Russians from overtaking Afghanistan. The US strategy back then paid off. Due to heavy Afghan resistance, the Russians realized that they could not win the war and the cost of maintaining such a vast force in Afghanistan was crippling Russia's already weak economy.

 

[jjw1965]

There are undoubtedly many government projects that occur behind the scenes that we are not aware of. These projects are for the preservation of our national security, they are there for our benefit. There is a reason why we haven't been re-attacked since 9/11. Our government obviously has a strategy that is working.

Just ask the families of the 9/11 victims! You know the German people thought the same thing about national security with Hitler.

 

[Nascar_James]

There are undoubtedly many government projects that occur behind the scenes that we are not aware of. These projects are for the preservation of our national security, they are there for our benefit. There is a reason why we haven't been re-attacked since 9/11. Our government obviously has a strategy that is working.

Just ask the families of the 9/11 victims! You know the German people thought the same thing about national security with Hitler.

It unfortunately took 9/11 for us to wake up and stop taking our freedom for granted. My prayers go out to all the 9/11 families as they are the tragic victims in a war that we didn't start.

As for the German people, their leader got the fate he deserved for deliberately ordering the executions of millions of innocent civilians, guilty of the worst crimes in our modern history.

 

[Ocean Breeze]

We were attacked on 9/11 because we let our guard down and took freedom for granted. Maintaining our freedom unfortunately has a price but the cost is small considering the alternative.

The bush mantra again. Sheesh. Don't you guys stop and THINK for yourselves???

The cost of "maintaining" your freedom......is eroding your freedom as you speak.


The US was attacked by TERRORISTS. the US was NOT MILITARILY attacked to warrant a war response. dealing with terrorism is an entirely different ballgame. It is the bush cabal that decided this was such a golden opportunity and used 9-11 to further the agenda they had in mind since they took office.

How sad , that the likes of yourself don't see the truth for what it is. How sad to see, the likes of yourself buy into the bush rhetoric ( LIES) hook line and sinker. But each to his own. Bush is the only LIER in this entire scenario. Whether some of you will ever see it / or accept it ......is another story. The bush supporters (blind as they are) will continue to spin, justify and RATIONALIZE bush 's pathological conduct. .......and be willing to blindly sacrifice .......more and more .......as time goes on... Meanwhile the "freedoms" that are supposed to be protected are being eroded right in front of them .........and get this: With their blessing. The bush supporters ("yes" men/women) will rationalize this with "gotta make "sacrifices" for our freedoms......and nation. ......While BASHING and character assassinating , people who speak truths, and ask for truths. Does not get much dirtier than what "we" see now. "they" cannot argue /debate on an equal footing with the TRUTH........so they attack the person. Cheap shots .......all of it. :twisted:

Interesting process taking place.

bush the lier told his yes population, that Iraq Had WMD that posed an IMMINET threat to the US and the world at large.. And the yes people bought that lie. .......and some still say "WMD " will be found. Rather illusive aren't they?? Meanwhile bush has virtually destroyed a nation........Killed thousands , while protecting natural resources in said nation.


(an aside, but relavent)...... wanna know why the rest of the world considers most Americans "stupid"??? Most don't think for themselves, are too lazy , creature comfort oreinted to do so and simply lap up what their insane administration tells them. Most simply take the line of least resistance.....and end up uninformed,

Quite troubling to see what used to be a progressive and exciting nation deteriorate this way.

Let us remember that negociating with terrorists is not an option. They attacked us on 9/11 and now we are going after them. When attacked, we do not stand by and do nothing. It will be a cold day in hell when we stand idle and let the terrorists walk all over us.

Seems The approach you just outlined is not working all that well, is it??? No one said anything about sitting idle or being passive etc. The issue is HOW this has been handled and is being handled. There ARE times that opening a dialogue with terrorists is a viable option as it can lead to more constructive handling of the situation. The idea is NOT to cut off all available options as each option has its place and effectiveness. There is no black and white , narrow minded solution to this issue and it has been demonstrated over and over again. Sadly bushcon's approach has done little to deter terrorism. and for years to come Americans and its "friends" ..(if it has any left) will be at risk. The terrorist groups as such have outsmarted the bush regime every step of the way .......and have time, opportunity and surprise to their advantage. The call is for totally different tactics in dealing with th is issue and some SMART thinking. War is last resort .......and NOT an effective option in dealing with terrorism. It only aggravates the situation further and perpetuates the cycle of violence.

 

[Ocean Breeze]

My prayers go out to all the 9/11 families as they are the tragic victims in a war that we didn't start.

and what about all the victims in Spain, London and other places that resulted out of terrorism against the US.??? Sorry, sympathy for 9-11 have long been eroded by the bushcon gov't.

Maybe it is time to deal with the real issue .......and that is the overly arrogant , aggressive nature the US has towards the rest of the world. It meddles where it has no business. It "helps" with strings attached. It wants to control the world and everyone knows it. It continues to tick the world off......and this anger swells in pockets/areas to the point of groups forming into terrorism.

HOw can people confuse WAR with TERRORISM??? Sheesh, how can people be that uninformed , unenlightened. War is not and has never been the answer to terrorism. Violence begets violence........and at some point one party .......has to stop all violent acts and start to dialogue. Sadly the US does not dialogue. It pnly understands aggression......in act and speach.

 

[Nascar_James]

We were attacked on 9/11 because we let our guard down and took freedom for granted. Maintaining our freedom unfortunately has a price but the cost is small considering the alternative.

The bush mantra again. Sheesh. Don't you guys stop and THINK for yourselves???

The cost of "maintaining" your freedom......is eroding your freedom as you speak.


The US was attacked by TERRORISTS. the US was NOT MILITARILY attacked to warrant a war response. dealing with terrorism is an entirely different ballgame. It is the bush cabal that decided this was such a golden opportunity and used 9-11 to further the agenda they had in mind since they took office.

How sad , that the likes of yourself don't see the truth for what it is. How sad to see, the likes of yourself buy into the bush rhetoric ( LIES) hook line and sinker. But each to his own. Bush is the only LIER in this entire scenario. Whether some of you will ever see it / or accept it ......is another story. The bush supporters (blind as they are) will continue to spin, justify and RATIONALIZE bush 's pathological conduct. .......and be willing to blindly sacrifice .......more and more .......as time goes on... Meanwhile the "freedoms" that are supposed to be protected are being eroded right in front of them .........and get this: With their blessing. The bush supporters ("yes" men/women) will rationalize this with "gotta make "sacrifices" for our freedoms......and nation. ......While BASHING and character assassinating , people who speak truths, and ask for truths. Does not get much dirtier than what "we" see now. "they" cannot argue /debate on an equal footing with the TRUTH........so they attack the person. Cheap shots .......all of it. :twisted:

Interesting process taking place.

bush the lier told his yes population, that Iraq Had WMD that posed an IMMINET threat to the US and the world at large.. And the yes people bought that lie. .......and some still say "WMD " will be found. Rather illusive aren't they?? Meanwhile bush has virtually destroyed a nation........Killed thousands , while protecting natural resources in said nation.


(an aside, but relavent)...... wanna know why the rest of the world considers most Americans "stupid"??? Most don't think for themselves, are too lazy , creature comfort oreinted to do so and simply lap up what their insane administration tells them. Most simply take the line of least resistance.....and end up uninformed,

Quite troubling to see what used to be a progressive and exciting nation deteriorate this way.

Let us remember that negociating with terrorists is not an option. They attacked us on 9/11 and now we are going after them. When attacked, we do not stand by and do nothing. It will be a cold day in hell when we stand idle and let the terrorists walk all over us.

Seems The approach you just outlined is not working all that well, is it??? No one said anything about sitting idle or being passive etc. The issue is HOW this has been handled and is being handled. There ARE times that opening a dialogue with terrorists is a viable option as it can lead to more constructive handling of the situation. The idea is NOT to cut off all available options as each option has its place and effectiveness. There is no black and white , narrow minded solution to this issue and it has been demonstrated over and over again. Sadly bushcon's approach has done little to deter terrorism. and for years to come Americans and its "friends" ..(if it has any left) will be at risk. The terrorist groups as such have outsmarted the bush regime every step of the way .......and have time, opportunity and surprise to their advantage. The call is for totally different tactics in dealing with th is issue and some SMART thinking. War is last resort .......and NOT an effective option in dealing with terrorism. It only aggravates the situation further and perpetuates the cycle of violence.

I disagree with opening a dialogue with the terrorists. If you give them an inch, they will keep wanting more and would blackmail us into more attacks. The solution is, we keep at it till most of these individuals are either in custody or out of the picture.

And as to who is winning this war, both U.S. and Iraqi forces have killed or arrested more than 50,000 Iraqi insurgents from January-July 2005 (7 months). We clearly have the edge, we cannot back away now, we need to keep at it till the Iraqi forces are able to efficiently handle their own security.

 

[Nascar_James]

My prayers go out to all the 9/11 families as they are the tragic victims in a war that we didn't start.

Maybe it is time to deal with the real issue .......and that is the overly arrogant , aggressive nature the US has towards the rest of the world. It meddles where it has no business. It "helps" with strings attached. It wants to control the world and everyone knows it. It continues to tick the world off......and this anger swells in pockets/areas to the point of groups forming into terrorism.

hmmmm ... seems we have some contradictions here ... if as you say the US continues to tick the world off, then why is it we are still the most respected country in the world? Why answer me do most immigrants prefer to immigrate to the US than any other country? I surely would not want to immigrate to a country I don't like.

 

[Haggis McBagpipe]

hmmmm ... seems we have some contradictions here ... if as you say the US continues to tick the world off, then why is it we are still the most respected country in the world?

Why do you think the US is the most respected country in the world? I've seen no evidence of it. The US government remarks on world anger towards the US, the media remarks on it, American citizens remark on it (with a good deal of defensiveness, I might add)... are you the only one who hasn't noticed?

Are you seriously suggesting that the US enjoys world popularity? Regarding the immigration issue, do more people, in fact, immigrate to the US? I'd be interested in your source for this information.

 

[Musicman]

NASCAR:

You make excellent points, and all you get is that Bush is a liar. I repeat what I said in a reponse some time ago: The US did not retaliate after the first, second, or even third attack on their personnel or bases or ships. The fourth time, the WTC, is what caused them to retaliate.

I see there is a suggestion that "dialogue" with terrorists is an option. A new Chamberlain appeasement policy? Worked really well the first time around. I also wonder exactly how you have "dialogue" or negotiate with a group that are ready to commit suicide in their pursuit of their goals? Seems there is not much room for negotiation. And I would like someone to tell me the last time any US soldier strapped on a load of dynamite and walked into a cafe, a bar, a train, a plane, or anywhere else, and blew up themselves and everyone around, including innocent men, women, and children? I can tell you: Never. Yet the terrorists that we should have "dialogue" with do this on virtually a daily basis. When the people who complain about the US in Iraq show the same kind of hatred, revulsion, and non acceptance of the suicide bombers and their groups, then you will have some degree of validity in your criticism of the US. Until you do that, though, you are the ones with your heads in the sand choosing to believe only what you want to believe, at the expense of the truth.

Whether the US created bin Laden many years ago is irrelevant. Surely no sane individual could actually have believed that supporting the Afghans against the Russians in the 1980's would lead to someone flying planes into the WTC 15 years later. The fact is that bin Laden and his ilk are terrorists and his followers are prepared to die in pursuit of bin Ladens goal. As usual, though, the leader of these terrorists is unwilling to show the same commitment to the cause as he expects of his followers.

One last thought. When, not if, it happens in Canada, the rest of us will not say "I told you so" We will be too busy trying to help the victims and trying to track down the perpetrators of the crime that will be committed against Canada. The rest of you, please, stay out of the way.

 

[Nascar_James]

hmmmm ... seems we have some contradictions here ... if as you say the US continues to tick the world off, then why is it we are still the most respected country in the world?

Why do you think the US is the most respected country in the world? I've seen no evidence of it. The US government remarks on world anger towards the US, the media remarks on it, American citizens remark on it (with a good deal of defensiveness, I might add)... are you the only one who hasn't noticed?

Are you seriously suggesting that the US enjoys world popularity? Regarding the immigration issue, do more people, in fact, immigrate to the US? I'd be interested in your source for this information.

Are you kidding? Everyone knows the US receives more immigrants worldwide than any other country. The immigration numbers prove without dispute that the US is indeed the most respected country in the world. I've said it before and I'll say it again, folks do not move to a country they don't respect.

Here is a source for immigration numbers around the world (putting the US on the top of the list) ...

http://www.unesco.org/courier/1998_11/uk/dossier/txt21.htm

 

[Nascar_James]

NASCAR:

You make excellent points, and all you get is that Bush is a liar. I repeat what I said in a reponse some time ago: The US did not retaliate after the first, second, or even third attack on their personnel or bases or ships. The fourth time, the WTC, is what caused them to retaliate.

I see there is a suggestion that "dialogue" with terrorists is an option. A new Chamberlain appeasement policy? Worked really well the first time around. I also wonder exactly how you have "dialogue" or negotiate with a group that are ready to commit suicide in their pursuit of their goals? Seems there is not much room for negotiation. And I would like someone to tell me the last time any US soldier strapped on a load of dynamite and walked into a cafe, a bar, a train, a plane, or anywhere else, and blew up themselves and everyone around, including innocent men, women, and children? I can tell you: Never. Yet the terrorists that we should have "dialogue" with do this on virtually a daily basis. When the people who complain about the US in Iraq show the same kind of hatred, revulsion, and non acceptance of the suicide bombers and their groups, then you will have some degree of validity in your criticism of the US. Until you do that, though, you are the ones with your heads in the sand choosing to believe only what you want to believe, at the expense of the truth.

Whether the US created bin Laden many years ago is irrelevant. Surely no sane individual could actually have believed that supporting the Afghans against the Russians in the 1980's would lead to someone flying planes into the WTC 15 years later. The fact is that bin Laden and his ilk are terrorists and his followers are prepared to die in pursuit of bin Ladens goal. As usual, though, the leader of these terrorists is unwilling to show the same commitment to the cause as he expects of his followers.

One last thought. When, not if, it happens in Canada, the rest of us will not say "I told you so" We will be too busy trying to help the victims and trying to track down the perpetrators of the crime that will be committed against Canada. The rest of you, please, stay out of the way.

Musicman, let us hope there will not be a "when". I really think we will not have a re-occurance of 9/11 within our continent. In making this judgement, I am hoping the US is looking out for Canada. Any terrorist attack on canadian soil would surely not be in the best interests of the US government. As I mentioned in an earlier post, there are projects going on behind the scenes. One of these might be US assistance to Canadian National Security. Yes, even thou Canada did not sign on to the missile defense program, the US will still look out for it's northern neighbor.

 

[Haggis McBagpipe]

Are you kidding? Everyone knows the US receives more immigrants worldwide than any other country.

No, actually, not everybody knew. I didn't know. So, is this somehow proof positive that the world has the highest respect for the US? Because of high immigration levels? Could people possibly be immigrating to the US for, say, personal gain with little interest or respect, per se, for their new home?

Back to 'respect of the world', I will repeat what I said before, are you the only one who hasn't noticed that quite the opposite is true? Why, I think even Bush has noticed a slight... decline, shall we say, in the outpouring of love for the US, especially her foreign policies.

 

[Ocean Breeze]

Any terrorist attack on canadian soil would surely not be in the best interests of the US government

Any terrorist attack on any soil........be it Spain, London.....or???? is not in the best interest of not only the US but the world at large. Maybe it is time to start getting OUT Of the SELFISH< self centered mode ( in best interest of the ol' US of A......and what is best for the world community and how the world community can work together to resolve these issues. Seems most nations are into collaborative efforts about major issues.......while the US is sticking out like a sore thumb still wanting it THEIR way, The US is the only one where competition is more important than cooperation for world peace and productivity. Seems the US is the only nation that has not gleened on to the fact that the world is a much smaller place now.......and international cooperation , joint efforts are the path for the future. Lone ranger, gun slingers are outdated.........and compromize the way of today and the future.

All the US had to do is maximize on the international support it had post 9-11.......work together with all nations, when sympathy was strong and unity was there, and collectively come up with a plan to deter WORLD terrorism. But no.......the US is only concerned for its own hide.......and could give one damn about anyone else. It is the US way or no way. .......and now the world is sick of this continuing US immaturity. An opportunity for counter terrorism lost by the US , but used to the US advantage as usual. Hard to believe that many can't see this entire process for what it really is........and that the US is not going to change its stance on the world stage any time soon. It merely wants to dominate and control.......and will do anything to do so.

One of the better ways to diffuse the rage of terrorist groups......is to play down their actions. What the US has done is sensationalize them. The terrorists have had all the cheap (free) publicity they could ever ask for.........courtesy of the US media /gov't. Each time bush mentions the word "security" , safety........or something akin....... the "terrorists" groups have won another round. Bush plays into their hand like the ignoramus he is. Meanwhile the so called terrorists can take their time......build on what they see happening..... and have bush etc under their thumb. Each time a new security system is put in place , the terrorists win another round too. They can play the bush administration like a violin........and do it with abandon. Bush lost control of this situation long time ago .....and all the security measures , loss of rights, sacrifices of the US population does not change the basic dynamic........and that is that the terrorist cults , groups etc have the edge and will continue to do so. New thinking and strategy is called for........ and this is not forthcoming . The Iraq invasion merely fueled the terrorist motivations.

 

[Ocean Breeze]

then why is it we are still the most respected country in the world? Why answer me do most immigrants prefer to immigrate to the US than any other country? I

ok......now I am laughing out loud. :lol:


Where do you get the idea that the US is "the most respected" country in the world??? If that is not out of touch with reality, one is hard pressed to find something that is.

Which survey tells you that most "immigrants" prefer the US to any other nation??? And why would that be??? On second thought, the US has to be better than some third world little country where life is still a tad primitive. So yes, compared to that......one can see why the US would have appeal.

There are many nations where lifestyles and standard of living is equal if not better than the US... so let's take care of some of the myths that seem tenacious. (or are people THAT uninformed about other nations on this planet??? What is wrong with the education system in the US that does not provide a true education?? ......

taking the education (US) a bit further. How many knew anything about Afganistan , (culture, location, etc ) before the US decided to take its revenge out on it??? How many knew anything about Iraq (apart from the fact that it has OIL).....before bush decided to bomb the crap out of it?? How many (USers) know anything about life/culture of the Swedes?? The Swiss?? The Scots??? or ??? (apart from what they see advertized on their telees?? )

Respect the US.??? Sorry, if it were not so sad , it would be hilarious.----and a very sad joke indeed.

there is a reason that "terrorists" target the US and US interests. There is a reason that the US is alienated now. Cause and effect. This has been building up over a long period of time. and when it reached crescendo, it was mishandled badly.......by the bushcon team. People don't wake up one morning and say to themselves (for no reason) that they dislike the US or are angry at the US . And it has nothing to do with the crap that bush spews out repetatively as if programmed into verbal robotics.

 

[Nascar_James]

then why is it we are still the most respected country in the world? Why answer me do most immigrants prefer to immigrate to the US than any other country? I

ok......now I am laughing out loud. :lol:


Where do you get the idea that the US is "the most respected" country in the world??? If that is not out of touch with reality, one is hard pressed to find something that is.

Which survey tells you that most "immigrants" prefer the US to any other nation??? And why would that be??? On second thought, the US has to be better than some third world little country where life is still a tad primitive. So yes, compared to that......one can see why the US would have appeal.

The US receives more immigrants than any other country in the world. This is proof that we are the most respected country in the world. Why would immigrants move to a country they don't like ... it don't make no sense. There are other developed countries to move to, but the US still receives more immigrants than those other countries. heh heh ... actually Canada is usually a second choice when immigrants do not get accepted by the US ...

Here is a link showing the immiration numbers for the US as compared with other developped nations.The US is tops ...

http://www.unesco.org/courier/1998_11/uk/dossier/txt21.htm

 

[Ocean Breeze]

heh heh ... actually Canada is usually a second choice when immigrants do not get accepted by the US ...

ahh, gee, imagine that. :roll: :roll:

( Does this kind of statistic make your ego's day??? :roll: Was not aware this was another "contest" :roll: )

So people move to the US.......so what??? In today's world , people are a lot more mobile.....and can go where the jobs are, etc. People change countries for a variety of reasons. "statistics " offer only limited data. I know a chap (Successful DJ from San Francisco ) who got so fed up with the US 'lifestyle" ......he moved to Europe, and is happy in Sweden now. (and he made a deliberate effort to shed all 'americanism" as he adapted to the country of choice. --including slang, attitude etc. Learned a new language etc. Very intelligent /nice chap )

The fact that many choose the US as a place to move to is NOT proof of respect. It might be proof of the desperate situation they are leaving behind. (but "believe" what you will.... :roll: :wink: Each to his own. :wink:

.............but heck. this is diverting from THE BIG LIE. (AND THE LIER WHO TELLS THEM)

 

[Jo Canadian]

 

[ElPolaco]

There were ties between Saddam and Al Qaeda as far back as the Clinton Administration...

http://www.washtimes.com/national/20040624-112921-3401r.htm

.

Interesting. In one thread you lecture us on the dangers of extremism and in this thread you quote from the Washington "mooney" Times.