Thank you dear cousins
- Thread starter Curiosity
- Start date
http://www.torontosun.com/News/Columnists/Worthington_Peter/2006/09/11/1824929.html
A counterpoint to the less than flattering messages being posted here on this day. It is pleasant to read some uplifting Canadian thoughts.
A counterpoint to the less than flattering messages being posted here on this day. It is pleasant to read some uplifting Canadian thoughts.
Anyone who has a hard time crying over 9/11 should give his head a shake. Why wouldn't 3000+ people killed give you some feelings of sadness? I don't understand why people can't just acknowledge the horror of that day without bringing in other topics. This isn't about Afghanistan, it isn't about Iraq, it isn't about Rwanda, it isn't about the CIA, it isn't about Bush or Clinton. I don't appreciate the "we've forsaken our allies" bs either.
I remember that day 5 years ago well and I don't like political bickering to take the focus away from simply remembering those that died and what we all lost.
I remember that day 5 years ago well and I don't like political bickering to take the focus away from simply remembering those that died and what we all lost.
Britain chose to have a more subdued memorial for their slain ...
http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20060910/wl_uk_afp/usattacks5yearsbritain&printer=1
Margaret Thatcher looked amazing for her health problems.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20060910/wl_uk_afp/usattacks5yearsbritain&printer=1
Margaret Thatcher looked amazing for her health problems.
I was shaken, appalled, and saddened when it happened. Since that time, at least 5,000 Afghani civilians who had nothing to do with 9/11 have been bombed to death. Since that time closer to a hundred thousand Iraqi civilians who had nothing to do with 9/11 have been bombed to death. Their lives are at least as important as those who were killed on 9/11. Where is the "Ground Zero" in Afghanistan? Where is the "Ground Zero" in Iraq. Their "Ground Zero", was in their homes and at their work places. We've been asked to cry on the eleventh of September for five years now. When do we cry for the Afghanis and the Iraqis? I understand your point. Try to understand mine.
#juan said:
That is just it. The people in Iraq have lost so much. Neither government in North America would ever consider having a day of mourning for that tragedy, and yet it’s all related. The Iraqis have suffered even more greatly without having any complicity in 911, and yet they continue to pay such a high price for this day we now memorialize.
How can anyone criticize anyone who points our that compassion towards the sum of an even greater loss? It's all related. To stifle that fact is for me, a showing of a lack of compassion.
Lest we forget. IRAQ was invaded primarily because they would not allow weapons inspectors into thier country.Saddam was being stubborn and it caused him and his country dearly. The majority of Iraqi's killed have been killed by other Iraqi's,these are not american soldiers strapping bombs on thier chest for a shopping trip.
Re: RE: Thank you dear cousins
Tracy, 9/11 was NOT an accident. It was NOT a sad unplanned earthquake, fire or hurricane.
It IS about Afghanistan.
It IS about Iraq.
It IS about Rwanda.
It IS about the CIA.
It IS about Bush, Clinton, Reagan etc.
It IS about Okinawa.
It IS about Sudan.
It IS about Israel.
It IS about the entire world and the relationship of the USA with the world. You can be very sorry for the people killed on 9/11 and for their families and friends.
But if you dont look further than your sympathy, if you try to hide your head in the sand and say it was just a nonspecific terrorist act, then you are kidding yourself. And to prevent further such attacks, you HAVE to look further than just feeling sorry for the lost life.
tracy said:
Tracy, 9/11 was NOT an accident. It was NOT a sad unplanned earthquake, fire or hurricane.
It IS about Afghanistan.
It IS about Iraq.
It IS about Rwanda.
It IS about the CIA.
It IS about Bush, Clinton, Reagan etc.
It IS about Okinawa.
It IS about Sudan.
It IS about Israel.
It IS about the entire world and the relationship of the USA with the world. You can be very sorry for the people killed on 9/11 and for their families and friends.
But if you dont look further than your sympathy, if you try to hide your head in the sand and say it was just a nonspecific terrorist act, then you are kidding yourself. And to prevent further such attacks, you HAVE to look further than just feeling sorry for the lost life.
Re: RE: Thank you dear cousins
Wally where did you get that? Iraq was invaded because of the U.S. and British contention that they had weapons of mass destruction. Remember Blair's little speech that Iraq had WMD that could be deployed in forty minutes? Iraq delivered a 1200 page document showing that all restricted weapons had been destroyed. This document was proven to be true and no WMD were found .
wallyj said:
Wally where did you get that? Iraq was invaded because of the U.S. and British contention that they had weapons of mass destruction. Remember Blair's little speech that Iraq had WMD that could be deployed in forty minutes? Iraq delivered a 1200 page document showing that all restricted weapons had been destroyed. This document was proven to be true and no WMD were found .
Re: RE: Thank you dear cousins
Yes, but the document itself, didnt specify "fourty minutes" actually.
Not that I disagree with your points though #Juan, because you are indeed right. The revenge that the US and the UK have inflicted on so-called "terrorists and their allies" has been unmitigated.
I do not like to bring the subject up, but if you type "world trade centre" in wikipedia, it will direct you to a list of world trade centres around the world. With this, Check the London World Trade Centre (this being Canary Worf), take a glimpse at what happen to Britain's world trade centre in 1997, YES, it was bombed by terrorists.
Terrorists who have been openly funded by the irish american community (Kennedy', Clinton's ect) since it's inception. This is where I feel the arguement falls down for me. America funded the terrorists to blow up our world trade centre, while Britain goes on a god-almighty crusade for America's.
Go to Idaho, visit the field of flags, see if you can see a flag that is not the US one......because you won't, what does tht tell you?.
But I digress, the US and UK are certainly using a sledge hammer to break a nut, and in my opinion being a wee bit racist in suggesting the relativly smll number of deaths on 11/9 is any worse than those who died and are still dying for this holly war on terror.
(And actually, there are several reasons America went to war in Iraq, one might suggest Bush Jr. is finishing the job his father didn't get the chance to finish because of Bill Clinton, you could also, with a fair bit of evidence, suggest it is for their oil fields, so no, I think denying weapons inspectors is a fabricated lie).
Daz
#juan said:
Yes, but the document itself, didnt specify "fourty minutes" actually.
Not that I disagree with your points though #Juan, because you are indeed right. The revenge that the US and the UK have inflicted on so-called "terrorists and their allies" has been unmitigated.
I do not like to bring the subject up, but if you type "world trade centre" in wikipedia, it will direct you to a list of world trade centres around the world. With this, Check the London World Trade Centre (this being Canary Worf), take a glimpse at what happen to Britain's world trade centre in 1997, YES, it was bombed by terrorists.
Terrorists who have been openly funded by the irish american community (Kennedy', Clinton's ect) since it's inception. This is where I feel the arguement falls down for me. America funded the terrorists to blow up our world trade centre, while Britain goes on a god-almighty crusade for America's.
Go to Idaho, visit the field of flags, see if you can see a flag that is not the US one......because you won't, what does tht tell you?.
But I digress, the US and UK are certainly using a sledge hammer to break a nut, and in my opinion being a wee bit racist in suggesting the relativly smll number of deaths on 11/9 is any worse than those who died and are still dying for this holly war on terror.
(And actually, there are several reasons America went to war in Iraq, one might suggest Bush Jr. is finishing the job his father didn't get the chance to finish because of Bill Clinton, you could also, with a fair bit of evidence, suggest it is for their oil fields, so no, I think denying weapons inspectors is a fabricated lie).
Daz
Re: RE: Thank you dear cousins
I've never said it was just a nonspecific attack. That doesn't mean I have to get on my high horse everytime it's mentionned to bitch about all those things you brought up. There is a time and a place for everything and I think a lot of Canadians didn't understood that in the immediate aftermath of 9/11.
I don't see people why can't put their politics aside to honor the dead for one day. It's like the anti-nuclear people holding a huge rally on Remembrance Day saying what murderers our veterans are and how dare we indulge in such self pity when the people of Japan suffered more than we did? And how dare the Japanese complain when the Rwandans suffer more? And how dare the Rwandans complain when the Cambodians suffered more? And how dare the Cambodians complain when the Jews suffered more?..... And on and on and on and on. Everything doesn't have to lead to a discussion about politics, foreign policy, international relations, etc. or a comparison of who has suffered more. Sometimes you can just say that what happened to those people was horrible.
fuzzylogix said:
I've never said it was just a nonspecific attack. That doesn't mean I have to get on my high horse everytime it's mentionned to bitch about all those things you brought up. There is a time and a place for everything and I think a lot of Canadians didn't understood that in the immediate aftermath of 9/11.
I don't see people why can't put their politics aside to honor the dead for one day. It's like the anti-nuclear people holding a huge rally on Remembrance Day saying what murderers our veterans are and how dare we indulge in such self pity when the people of Japan suffered more than we did? And how dare the Japanese complain when the Rwandans suffer more? And how dare the Rwandans complain when the Cambodians suffered more? And how dare the Cambodians complain when the Jews suffered more?..... And on and on and on and on. Everything doesn't have to lead to a discussion about politics, foreign policy, international relations, etc. or a comparison of who has suffered more. Sometimes you can just say that what happened to those people was horrible.
Re: RE: Thank you dear cousins
Remembrance Day is also to remember War so that we don’t repeat past mistakes. It’s to not forget the overall history that leads to such failures. That is the true meaning in addition to homage to the fallen, so that soldiers therefore do not indeed die in vain.
"Less we forget"
All these days of memorial are political. Harper just gave us another speech on commitment to Afghanistan. Who in your mind gets to use this for politics and who doesn’t?
The USA has milked 911 for everything it’s been worth to not only create wars, but to strip their own citizenry of their liberties. Everything about it has been political. Look at election campaigning and election commercials in the USA. It would be a greater crime not to speak out and try to keep things in perspective than to continue to let politicians use such events for their own agendas. That is how we have the whole Iraq thing to begin with. By allowing to be blinded by 911.
To speak thoughtfully towards lives in no way dishonours anyone. Most likely the opposite. It doesn’t recognize any less those innocents who lost their lives in the twin towers. Better to try to avoid the crime of how those lives are used.
tracy said:
Remembrance Day is also to remember War so that we don’t repeat past mistakes. It’s to not forget the overall history that leads to such failures. That is the true meaning in addition to homage to the fallen, so that soldiers therefore do not indeed die in vain.
"Less we forget"
All these days of memorial are political. Harper just gave us another speech on commitment to Afghanistan. Who in your mind gets to use this for politics and who doesn’t?
The USA has milked 911 for everything it’s been worth to not only create wars, but to strip their own citizenry of their liberties. Everything about it has been political. Look at election campaigning and election commercials in the USA. It would be a greater crime not to speak out and try to keep things in perspective than to continue to let politicians use such events for their own agendas. That is how we have the whole Iraq thing to begin with. By allowing to be blinded by 911.
To speak thoughtfully towards lives in no way dishonours anyone. Most likely the opposite. It doesn’t recognize any less those innocents who lost their lives in the twin towers. Better to try to avoid the crime of how those lives are used.
It's actually "Lest we forget".
No one should be using today as a political tool. I don't understand why the other guy doing something means you have to as well.
I dunno. We'll see if you feel the same when on November 11th this year there are picketers yelling that Canadian soldiers in Afghanistan are terrorists and murderers. Maybe they can even do it outside the next dead soldier's funeral, so we can all learn from them. Timing is a matter of taste. I think people are more likely to take a message with an open mind when it's done tactfully and tastefully. I don't think today is the day.
No one should be using today as a political tool. I don't understand why the other guy doing something means you have to as well.
I dunno. We'll see if you feel the same when on November 11th this year there are picketers yelling that Canadian soldiers in Afghanistan are terrorists and murderers. Maybe they can even do it outside the next dead soldier's funeral, so we can all learn from them. Timing is a matter of taste. I think people are more likely to take a message with an open mind when it's done tactfully and tastefully. I don't think today is the day.
Re: RE: Thank you dear cousins
I have to agree though that I really don't appreciate our government, and that of the United States, using Sept. 11 to fan the flames of nationalism, with the only goal of garnering political support. It is disrespectful.
My heart goes out to the families of the victims of terrorism and war across the globe. I feel fortunate not to have been personally touched by those evils.
tracy said:
I have to agree though that I really don't appreciate our government, and that of the United States, using Sept. 11 to fan the flames of nationalism, with the only goal of garnering political support. It is disrespectful.
My heart goes out to the families of the victims of terrorism and war across the globe. I feel fortunate not to have been personally touched by those evils.
To turn 9/11 into just a day of mourning and sorrow and anger towards the perpetrators is in fact making a political statement in itself. If one just views the event as something that we remember and have a respectful moment of silence for on 9/11, then we are doing a disservice not only to the people who lost their lives on that day, but to all the remaining people who may lose their lives in the next terrorist attack. We are allowing ourselves to be caught up in the sensationalistic visual effect of the event itself.
There is no single day that should be a memorial to this event or any other event of war. It allows us to pretend that we are the only victims of war and that we are righteously defending our country. We then continue on our daily lives of avarice and powermongering, having justified this with our few moments of empathy.
There is no single day that should be a memorial to this event or any other event of war. It allows us to pretend that we are the only victims of war and that we are righteously defending our country. We then continue on our daily lives of avarice and powermongering, having justified this with our few moments of empathy.
At what point have Canadians found it difficult - even impossible - accept a simple thank you?
This thread is way beyond what Canada has always stood for - a gracious and loving people within a vast and embracing nation.
Our world doesn't seem to be able to handle catastrophe very well any more - but rather seeks to punish and blame instead of honoring the innocent who perished even for a few hours respecting those they
have left behind.
Too sad to read your anger... even to honor your kindness after the event.
This thread is way beyond what Canada has always stood for - a gracious and loving people within a vast and embracing nation.
Our world doesn't seem to be able to handle catastrophe very well any more - but rather seeks to punish and blame instead of honoring the innocent who perished even for a few hours respecting those they
have left behind.
Too sad to read your anger... even to honor your kindness after the event.
Prime Minister Harper honours 9/11 victims and restates Canada's commitment to fighting terror
11 September 2006 Ottawa, Ontario
Good evening.
Today is the 5th anniversary of the terrible events of September 11, 2001.
I am speaking to you from the Hall of Honour in the Centre Block of Parliament. With me are some Canadians whose lives have been touched by 9/11 in ways that most of us can’t even begin to imagine. Men and women who lost loved ones in the attacks on the World Trade Centre.
# Tanja Tomasevic, who lost her husband, Vladimir;
# Danny Eisen who lost his cousin, Danny; and
# Maureen and Erica Basnicki, who lost their husband and father, Ken.
I asked them to join me because words alone are not enough to express what needs to be said today.
As we pay tribute to the 24 Canadians who lost their lives on that infamous day five years ago, their family members remind us that they were real people with real lives. Lives that were cut short – deliberately so – by a murderous act of terrorism.
Like most Canadians, I have a vivid memory of that morning. As my wife, Laureen, and I watched the second tower collapse on television, - as the enormity of the events began to sink in, - I turned to her and said: “This will change the course of history.”
And so it has.
In the years that followed, terror struck:
# Bali in Indonesia
# Madrid in Spain
# London in Great-Britain
And security forces in many countries - including Canada – have foiled alleged terrorist plots before they could be executed.
The targets and tactics were different in every case, but the objective is always the same.
To kill, maim and terrify as many people as possible.
Not in the name of any idealistic cause, but because of an ideology of hatred.
And while this war of terror has displayed some of the worst of which humanity is capable.
So too has it revealed the greatness and generosity that lie at the core of so many ordinary people.
Something which was on display for all to see when Canadians opened their arms and homes to thousands of travellers whose flights were diverted on 9/11.
And because of this war of terror, people around the world have come together to offer a better vision of the future for all humanity.
For this vision to take hold, the menace of terror must be confronted.
And that is why the countries of the United Nations …
With unprecedented unity and determination launched their mission to Afghanistan …
To deal with the source of the 9/11 terror and to end, once and for all, the brutal regime that horribly mistreated its own people while coddling terrorists.
And that is why i invited the families of some of the Canadian soldiers who are currently serving in Afghanistan to join us here today.
I want to thank:
Raquel Hounsell;
Janice Shaw;
and Jane Hill…for being here.
Their husbands are currently serving in Afghanistan, and Captain Edward and Judy Kosierb, whose son is serving in Afghanistan.
Their presence here reminds us that real people – Canadian men and women with families and children – are courageously putting themselves forward to make that part of the world a better place.
It is the desire to make a better and safer world which compels our soldiers to put their lives on the line.
There are Canadian heroes being made every day in the desert and the mountains of southern Afghanistan.
These are the stories we don’t hear – the countless acts of courage and sacrifice that occur every day on the battlefield.
And in the towns and villages where Canadians are reconstructing the basic infrastructure of a shattered nation, because of their efforts, the Taliban is on the run, not the charge.
Women now have basic rights as human beings.
Youngsters are getting a chance to go to school.
And many – but not yet all Afghan families – are beginning to rebuild their lives with our help.
Because we are a country that has always accepted its responsibilities in the world
# from two great wars in Europe,
# from Korea to the Balkans
Canada has acted when the United Nations has asked .
And as the events of September 11 so clearly illustrate, the horrors of the world will not go away if we turn a blind eye to them, no matter how far off they may be.
And these horrors cannot be stopped unless some among us are willing to accept enormous sacrifice and risk to themselves.
I would ask that, tonight, you keep in your thoughts and prayers the victims and families of 9-11 and all those ordinary people who have died or lost loved ones in related acts of terror.
I would ask as well, that you keep in your thoughts and prayers the personnel and families of the extraordinary people in Afghanistan and elsewhere who have put themselves on the line so that the world is a better and safer place for all of us.
Good night.
11 September 2006 Ottawa, Ontario
Good evening.
Today is the 5th anniversary of the terrible events of September 11, 2001.
I am speaking to you from the Hall of Honour in the Centre Block of Parliament. With me are some Canadians whose lives have been touched by 9/11 in ways that most of us can’t even begin to imagine. Men and women who lost loved ones in the attacks on the World Trade Centre.
# Tanja Tomasevic, who lost her husband, Vladimir;
# Danny Eisen who lost his cousin, Danny; and
# Maureen and Erica Basnicki, who lost their husband and father, Ken.
I asked them to join me because words alone are not enough to express what needs to be said today.
As we pay tribute to the 24 Canadians who lost their lives on that infamous day five years ago, their family members remind us that they were real people with real lives. Lives that were cut short – deliberately so – by a murderous act of terrorism.
Like most Canadians, I have a vivid memory of that morning. As my wife, Laureen, and I watched the second tower collapse on television, - as the enormity of the events began to sink in, - I turned to her and said: “This will change the course of history.”
And so it has.
In the years that followed, terror struck:
# Bali in Indonesia
# Madrid in Spain
# London in Great-Britain
And security forces in many countries - including Canada – have foiled alleged terrorist plots before they could be executed.
The targets and tactics were different in every case, but the objective is always the same.
To kill, maim and terrify as many people as possible.
Not in the name of any idealistic cause, but because of an ideology of hatred.
And while this war of terror has displayed some of the worst of which humanity is capable.
So too has it revealed the greatness and generosity that lie at the core of so many ordinary people.
Something which was on display for all to see when Canadians opened their arms and homes to thousands of travellers whose flights were diverted on 9/11.
And because of this war of terror, people around the world have come together to offer a better vision of the future for all humanity.
For this vision to take hold, the menace of terror must be confronted.
And that is why the countries of the United Nations …
With unprecedented unity and determination launched their mission to Afghanistan …
To deal with the source of the 9/11 terror and to end, once and for all, the brutal regime that horribly mistreated its own people while coddling terrorists.
And that is why i invited the families of some of the Canadian soldiers who are currently serving in Afghanistan to join us here today.
I want to thank:
Raquel Hounsell;
Janice Shaw;
and Jane Hill…for being here.
Their husbands are currently serving in Afghanistan, and Captain Edward and Judy Kosierb, whose son is serving in Afghanistan.
Their presence here reminds us that real people – Canadian men and women with families and children – are courageously putting themselves forward to make that part of the world a better place.
It is the desire to make a better and safer world which compels our soldiers to put their lives on the line.
There are Canadian heroes being made every day in the desert and the mountains of southern Afghanistan.
These are the stories we don’t hear – the countless acts of courage and sacrifice that occur every day on the battlefield.
And in the towns and villages where Canadians are reconstructing the basic infrastructure of a shattered nation, because of their efforts, the Taliban is on the run, not the charge.
Women now have basic rights as human beings.
Youngsters are getting a chance to go to school.
And many – but not yet all Afghan families – are beginning to rebuild their lives with our help.
Because we are a country that has always accepted its responsibilities in the world
# from two great wars in Europe,
# from Korea to the Balkans
Canada has acted when the United Nations has asked .
And as the events of September 11 so clearly illustrate, the horrors of the world will not go away if we turn a blind eye to them, no matter how far off they may be.
And these horrors cannot be stopped unless some among us are willing to accept enormous sacrifice and risk to themselves.
I would ask that, tonight, you keep in your thoughts and prayers the victims and families of 9-11 and all those ordinary people who have died or lost loved ones in related acts of terror.
I would ask as well, that you keep in your thoughts and prayers the personnel and families of the extraordinary people in Afghanistan and elsewhere who have put themselves on the line so that the world is a better and safer place for all of us.
Good night.
