Terrorist attack in London

Reverend Blair

Council Member
Apr 3, 2004
1,238
1
38
Winnipeg
Right. Bomb goes off, and a couple of days later, Spanish troops are coming home. At least Zapatero could have had the sense to say "We will not succumb to terrorism" then three or six months later say they've fullfilled their mission as pledged and were now coming home. But no, the very first thing Zapatero says is we're out. Message to the terrorists - you win! thus validating bin Laden's long-term message that the West is soft. This bombing in London may not have happened if the Spanish hadn't reacted so badly.

Hmmm...a guy runs on a certain election platform, gets elected, and does what he said he going to do. What a plan. It wasn't some vague economic promise or anything like that, it was very clear. It was based on the fact that most of the people in Spain were against going into Iraq. It seems to me that you should be cheering for him, not whining.

You might take the time to note that there have been expectations of Madrid-style attack on London since well before Madrid was attacked too. You can't do that though, because you need both to point fingers and to try to justify the actions of the war criminal you have in power.
 

Jay

Executive Branch Member
Jan 7, 2005
8,366
3
38
The training bases for Al Qaeda were in Afghanistan, and much of their operations have been busted up.... Saddam chose posturing over other measures…he paid a heavy price for it.
 

peapod

Hall of Fame Member
Jun 26, 2004
10,745
0
36
pumpkin pie bungalow
The training bases for Al Qaeda were in Afghanistan, and much of their operations have been busted up.

Well if you believe that Jay, than you must also believe in santa. That is a typical bush answer, the exact opposite has happened. Al qaeda has splintered and morphed into something even stronger than what it was.
 

Jay

Executive Branch Member
Jan 7, 2005
8,366
3
38
I would have to ask you for proof that they have morphed into something stronger....


PS, at Christmas I get presents that say "to Jay...From Santa" So what are you telling me my wife bought those? I don't think so....
 

I think not

Hall of Fame Member
Apr 12, 2005
10,506
33
48
The Evil Empire
Re: RE: Terrorist attack in London

Jay said:
PS, at Christmas I get presents that say "to Jay...From Santa" So what are you telling me my wife bought those? I don't think so....

No, that was me, didn't you ever notice me parking on your roof?
 

I think not

Hall of Fame Member
Apr 12, 2005
10,506
33
48
The Evil Empire
LONDON (Reuters) - Police scrambled through dangerous rail tunnels deep underground on Friday to hunt for clues and retrieve bodies after suspected al Qaeda bombers killed more than 50 people in London rush-hour blasts.

A day after four bombs tore through three underground trains and a red double-decker bus, commuters headed to work again on London's battered transport network, some fearful, some defiant, undeterred by the knowledge it might happen again.

"My granddad called me last night and told me I had to go to work today," said Sally Higson, 36. "He's 89. He lived through the war and said it was important to carry on as normal."

The attacks -- which ministers said bore the hallmarks of the Islamic militant al Qaeda network -- were London's deadliest in peacetime and disrupted a summit of the Group of Eight (G8) industrialized countries in Gleneagles, Scotland.

London police chief Ian Blair said more than 50 people were killed in the blasts and 700 wounded.

He said the final death toll was not yet known. Police had yet to reach one of the bombed underground carriages in central London as the surrounding tunnel was unsafe.

Blair said no survivors were trapped underground and the task now was to retrieve bodies. Andy Trotter of the British Transport Police said the number of bodies still trapped was not known, but one police source said it could be more than 10.

"This was a crowded tube train at rush hour in central London with several hundred people on board," Trotter said.

Andy Hayman, of the London police specialist operations branch, spoke of the "extreme circumstances" under which rescue services were working, saying they faced the hazards of tunnel collapse, vermin and "dangerous substances" in the air.

"Just imagine an explosion that far into a tunnel," he said. "I think we can all respect the sort of things our people are actually confronting."

A maintenance worker, who did not want to be identified, said he had reached the site early on Friday and described "awful" scenes, with several bodies in the carriage.

"We got up to the carriage, although it was very dark there at the time," he told Reuters. "The smell was awful."

Hayman said the bombs were believed to have contained up to 10 lbs (4.5 kg) of explosives and could have been carried onto the trains and bus in backpacks.

Police said they had no specific intelligence warning of the attacks. Home Secretary Charles Clarke said the blasts "came completely out of the blue."

The New York Times said timing devices rather than suicide bombers set off the explosions and Blair stressed there was nothing so far to suggest suicide attacks.

MORE BOMBS FEARED

Fears of more attacks kept commuters and markets jittery.

"We have to have ... maximum consideration of the risk of another attack and that's why our total effort today is focused on identifying the perpetrators and bringing them to justice," Clarke told BBC radio.

He said investigators were examining a statement from the "Secret Group of al Qaeda's Jihad in Europe."

The e-mail statement by the previously unknown group said: "Our mujahideen have carried out a blessed invasion in London and here is Britain now burning with fear and terror ... We have repeatedly warned Britain and have kept our promise."

Clarke said: "We monitor now very intensively a wide range of Web sites ... and this one and their claim is something we certainly take seriously."

An Internet statement from another group, calling itself the "Organization of al Qaeda - Jihad in the Arabian Peninsula" praised the attacks and said Rome would be targeted next.

Britain and Italy backed the U.S.-led war in Iraq, and London had been on high alert since al Qaeda's Sept. 11, 2001, attacks on the United States and 2004 Madrid train bombings.

The blasts battered financial markets, but oil prices recovered to near $61 on Friday as analysts said the attacks were expected to have a limited impact on the global economy and oil demand. British shares also recovered their losses, but sterling slid further against the dollar.

"There's still a bit of a terrorist risk premium in the market," said a strategist at a London bank. "It would make a difference if we knew for sure that these were suicide bombers, rather than an active cell on the loose."

The Islamic Human Rights Commission warned London Muslims to stay at home, fearing a backlash against the community. The Muslim Council of Britain, which represents 1.6 million Muslims, called for prayers for the victims.

Thursday's scenes of shocked and bloodied commuters were in stark contrast to the jubilant crowds who took to the streets on Wednesday after London was awarded the 2012 Olympic Games.

Clarke confirmed intelligence chiefs had reduced the threat level only last month following Britain's May 5 election but said there was no indication a higher alert level would have detected the bombers.
 

peapod

Hall of Fame Member
Jun 26, 2004
10,745
0
36
pumpkin pie bungalow
Isn't that link part of the Police State? Can't be credible

That question is a bullshit one think, but you already know that. Quite trying to change the subject. the facts are bush and co would have us believe that they have finished off bid laden and al qaeda. When in fact that is a outright lie! just one of many. They have morphed and splintered into something every stronger than before.
 

Jay

Executive Branch Member
Jan 7, 2005
8,366
3
38
"Sageman points out that the root of the misconception is the fact that bin Laden and his lieutenants did have control of this whole social movement for five years, from 1996 to 2001. But all of that changed when Al Qaeda's control "more or less evaporated" at their height in 2001 after the loss of its sanctuary in Afghanistan."

"He argues that Al Qaeda has been subsumed into the larger Salafi jihad revivalist movement that predates it."

"Sageman says that by destroying the training camps, the U.S. eliminated the financial and operational backing bin Laden provided the jihad. "By cutting off the 'golden chain,' he really doesn't have that much money left. We're monitoring his communication so he can't communicate with his troops. The whole network degenerated because [we] undermined the control of this social movement." "
 

Said1

Hubba Hubba
Apr 18, 2005
5,338
70
48
52
Das Kapital
peapod said:
I will read that said, you may be right, but I also believe that if bush had gone after who he supposing to be going after, and stop blathering about how al qeada was beaten and broken, when in fact they have morphed into something every more sinister.

While I agree, one enemy at a time,Al Qaeda is not confined to one area. I'm sure the bulk of their efforts are in Iraq right now, but over time other extremist factions such as the Muslim Brotherhood have joined their cause. Even the Egyptian government is guilty of funding terrorist acts against Israel carried out by the MB. It's right out of control, but could have been stopped through joint efforts 30 years ago.
 

Said1

Hubba Hubba
Apr 18, 2005
5,338
70
48
52
Das Kapital
Re: RE: Terrorist attack in London

Jay said:
The training bases for Al Qaeda were in Afghanistan, and much of their operations have been busted up.... Saddam chose posturing over other measures…he paid a heavy price for it.

They were not confined to Afghanistan, they were scattered all over. AQ even had training operations in the Balkans and recruited from there as well.
 

Toro

Senate Member
May 24, 2005
5,468
109
63
Florida, Hurricane Central
Reverend Blair said:
Hmmm...a guy runs on a certain election platform, gets elected, and does what he said he going to do. What a plan. It wasn't some vague economic promise or anything like that, it was very clear. It was based on the fact that most of the people in Spain were against going into Iraq. It seems to me that you should be cheering for him, not whining.

I don't have a problem with Spain pulling troops out of Iraq Rev. The problem is the symbolism of how it was done. If the bombs had not gone off and Zapareto won, then there is no issue with pulling Spanish troops out immediately. But the message it sent was that Spain was cowering to the terrorists. The symbolism is the same as when Hamas sent a suicide bomber in the American barricks in Beirut in 1983 (1985?) which caused Reagan to pull troops out of Lebanon, an event bin Laden has repeatedly pointed out as evidence of the West's weakness. The Spanish government could have said something like

"Spain appears to be under attack from foreign terrorists. We stand in the fight against terrorism with the West, as we would if any other Western national capitol was bombed. We have made a promise to return our troops home from Spain. We intend to keep that promise but given the circumstances of these grave events, we wish to consider all options. Spain will never bow to terrorism."

Or something to that effect. Then the government could have called Washington and tell them they will pull the troops out, that that was their intention all along, but they need cover. Then a couple of months later, Spain could have announced their intention to withdraw and Washington could say that was the intention all along.

Bombs may have gone off in London whether or not the Madrid attack occurred, but the actions of the Spanish government certainly would have embolded the terrorists.
 

Jay

Executive Branch Member
Jan 7, 2005
8,366
3
38
The bulk of the training and such was done in Afghanistan...I'm sure there are cells all over...

We did cut their head off though, and made life a bit of a hell for them....unless you count the menu at the prison...
 

Said1

Hubba Hubba
Apr 18, 2005
5,338
70
48
52
Das Kapital
Re: RE: Terrorist attack in London

Jay said:
I would have to ask you for proof that they have morphed into something stronger.....

She didn't say stronger, she said sinister.

You don't think they've become more determine as of late?
 

I think not

Hall of Fame Member
Apr 12, 2005
10,506
33
48
The Evil Empire
peapod said:
Isn't that link part of the Police State? Can't be credible

That question is a bullshit one think, but you already know that. Quite trying to change the subject. the facts are bush and co would have us believe that they have finished off bid laden and al qaeda. When in fact that is a outright lie! just one of many. They have morphed and splintered into something every stronger than before.

Sorry I thought the topic was the attack on London. I could of sworn you did all the spinning to Bush and Al-Qaeda
 

Jay

Executive Branch Member
Jan 7, 2005
8,366
3
38
Re: RE: Terrorist attack in London

I think not said:
Jay said:
PS, at Christmas I get presents that say "to Jay...From Santa" So what are you telling me my wife bought those? I don't think so....

No, that was me, didn't you ever notice me parking on your roof?

:lol:


Well you gave me shit presents last year...
 

I think not

Hall of Fame Member
Apr 12, 2005
10,506
33
48
The Evil Empire
Re: RE: Terrorist attack in London

Jay said:
I think not said:
Jay said:
PS, at Christmas I get presents that say "to Jay...From Santa" So what are you telling me my wife bought those? I don't think so....

No, that was me, didn't you ever notice me parking on your roof?

:lol:


Well you gave me shit presents last year...

That's because you were naughty and not nice.