Ten Paces then DRAW!

[Reverend Blair]

Shotguns have always been around in Canada while handguns have been relatively rare. We did not see a huge rise in the number of shotgun murders after handguns were effectively banned except under closely controlled conditions.

A sawed-off shotgun is illegal, just like a hand gun is. Actually moreso, since it cannot be licensed, is illegal to own, and it is illegal to make a regular shotgun into a sawed-off.

Shotguns purchased new are registered, so if they are stolen or sold, there is now a paper trail. Odd thing about registration, it leads to proper storage and a reduction in the number of guns stolen as a result. It also makes the unrecorded sale of guns far less likely and the theft of older guns more likely to be reported.

Your argument doesn't work, Colpy. You might as well say that if we ban all guns, the criminals will use cross-bows. I suppose if we ban those, there'll be medievel siege engines being hauled around to commit robberies too? What comes after that? Villagers with torches and pitch forks?

 

[Colpy]

Rev said

"Shotguns have always been around in Canada while handguns have been relatively rare. We did not see a huge rise in the number of shotgun murders after handguns were effectively banned except under closely controlled conditions.

A sawed-off shotgun is illegal, just like a hand gun is. Actually moreso, since it cannot be licensed, is illegal to own, and it is illegal to make a regular shotgun into a sawed-off."

_Absolutely true, as far as it goes. My statements were aimed at those silly enough to believe it is possible to completely remove handguns from society.

Registration leads to nothing but outrageous cost.

How outrageous you ask?

Think about this.

If the government was serious about safe storage to avoid accident and theft of legal firearms, they'd have used the bloody 2 billion bucks to buy each of Canada's 5 million gun owners a nice $400 gun safe.

 

[Colpy]

Oh yeah.

I Googled Toronto, 50% guns.

I got a lot of BS, with no stats or research, and a Globe and Mail column that included this;

Mr. Wilkins said that Canadian officials admitted in meetings with U.S. Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice this week "that that figure was just grabbed out of thin air." He insisted the Canadian government should focus on joint efforts to combat gun-running rather than pointing fingers.

The figure, which others have used previously, is not based on any statistical study that could be traced by The Globe and Mail, and police forces and other authorities said yesterday it is not verifiable.

"I know that figure of 50 per cent has been bandied about, but no one can substantiate that figure," said Staff Sergeant Paul Marsh, a spokesman for the Royal Canadian Mounted Police.

So much for 50%, eh? AND the AEI story IS accurate.

 

[no1important]

Probabley higher than 50%.

 

[Nascar_James]

Re: RE: Ten Paces then DRAW!

Shotguns have always been around in Canada while handguns have been relatively rare.

A sawed-off shotgun is illegal, just like a hand gun is.

Not so Rev. A sawed off shotgun may be illegal in Canada, however handguns are not. I owned handguns while I was living in Canada and would routinely take them to the shooting range. Many other folks also did the same. I suspect this is true in all provinces.

 

[no1important]

Handguns are not illegal but there are tough regulations surrounding the ownership and use of them. You cant just go buy one.

 

[Nascar_James]

Re: RE: Ten Paces then DRAW!

Handguns are not illegal but there are tough regulations surrounding the ownership and use of them. You cant just go buy one.

You can't just buy one there like you could here, that's for sure. Night and day difference. I had to obtain references and police approval. I also had to show proof that I was indeed a proficient target shooter.

 

[no1important]

I believe you also have to belong to a gun range as well.

When I bought rifles and shotguns I only had to wait a couple hours for it to be approved by someone at the end of an 800 number the gun store called.

 

[Reverend Blair]

Not so Rev. A sawed off shotgun may be illegal in Canada, however handguns are not. I owned handguns while I was living in Canada and would routinely take them to the shooting range. Many other folks also did the same. I suspect this is true in all provinces.

You took the statement out of context, James. Nice try, but you forgot that the full statement is available in the same thread as your failed attempt at distortion.

 

[Reverend Blair]

Probabley higher than 50%.

That would make sense, No 1. Given that handguns are very restricted here, there aren't a lot that can be stolen. That goes for things like MAC 10's and other assault weapons too. People aren't making these things in their basements, they are coming from someplace. Since the US has so few restrictions and such a massive gun problem and since the border is so open, it would follow that the guns are coming from the US.

Perhaps somebody can provide us with some statistics showing that illegal guns in Canada are not coming from the US. Maybe they're all being smuggled in from Britain or France or Japan.

 

[Colpy]

You forget the longevity of guns Rev. It takes very few to supply the criminal element, and they last a long, long time. I have a Winchester rifle made in 1920. It is still being made today. The best Mauser design, still very popular, was first made in 1898. The gun I carry as an armed professional was patented in 1899. The best combat pistol in existence was patented in 1905, adopted by the US military in 1911. The first good pump action shotgun was first sold in 1897, and semi-auto sporting rifles came on the scene in 1903.

Lots of people hunt with rifles from WWII.

In my wasted youth I saw a number of illegal handguns. We are talking 30 years ago. Colt and S&W .38s, high capacity 9mms (Browning), Walther PPs and Beretta 1934s. All would still do the job today, and are probably still in circulation. In fact, all would be among the best pistols available today. AND they were old when I saw them.

There are a LOT of guns out there the government doesn't know about.

To fully supply the criminal element would only require a tiny percentage of them.

By the way, Rev....how can you be anti-gun..........and represented by a cartoon of Dr. Hunter S. Thompson, shootin' loonie extrodinaire?

 

[Jo Canadian]

You can have a handgun here, but the ONLY thing you can use it for is practice at a shooting range and eventually for protection or to make some quick money.

Besides that you are NOT even allowed to hunt with them, it's illegal. There's more hoops to jump through if you want to own a handgun here, getting a rifle or shotgun would be much more useful...I'd reccomend a 10 guage, they're fun!

 

[Reverend Blair]

You forget the longevity of guns Rev. It takes very few to supply the criminal element, and they last a long, long time.

Actually, I'm not forgetting that at all. I'm also not forgetting that the guns being seized aren't WWII vintage...they are far newer. Everytime there's a gun seizure on the news, what do you see? Old six shooters? No. There will be Glocks and Mac 10s and things like that. The last big raid in Winnipeg, there were M-16s and an AK-47 that were either bought fully automatic or had been converted. Those have never been legal here. We're not talking about an antique collection here, these are newer weapons.

Where did they come from?

The US that has lax gun laws. They are right next door. The border is relatively open. So where are all these guns coming from. Hmmm...maybe Santa's elves are making them, but I don't think so.

 

[Jay]

Re: RE: Ten Paces then DRAW!

Shotguns have always been around in Canada while handguns have been relatively rare. We did not see a huge rise in the number of shotgun murders after handguns were effectively banned except under closely controlled conditions.

A sawed-off shotgun is illegal, just like a hand gun is. Actually moreso, since it cannot be licensed, is illegal to own, and it is illegal to make a regular shotgun into a sawed-off.

Shotguns purchased new are registered, so if they are stolen or sold, there is now a paper trail. Odd thing about registration, it leads to proper storage and a reduction in the number of guns stolen as a result. It also makes the unrecorded sale of guns far less likely and the theft of older guns more likely to be reported.

Your argument doesn't work, Colpy. You might as well say that if we ban all guns, the criminals will use cross-bows. I suppose if we ban those, there'll be medievel siege engines being hauled around to commit robberies too? What comes after that? Villagers with torches and pitch forks?

You can saw off a shotgun, it just has to meet a minimun barrel length.

Hand guns arn't illegal; they are restricted, and you need a diffrent licence to own one.

New guns are not registered untill the owner registers it/them.

And no, if you ban all guns the criminals will use plain ol fashion guns, just like they always have been using, and nothing is going to stop it.

 

[missile]

Back in the day,we only used long barreled .22 pistols for all our hits.And they did the job,too. These modern kids and their fancy new weapons! Humbug :x

 

[Reverend Blair]

Back in the day,we only used long barreled .22 pistols for all our hits.And they did the job,too. These modern kids and their fancy new weapons! Humbug Mad

We didn't even .22's, Missile. There were virtually no ranged weapons. We had to throw rocks. That's all we had. Oh, a few rich guys could afford slingshots, but most of us had to depend on our throwing arms. It was okay if you could get in close because there were pointed sticks, but if you were a ways away all you had was rocks.

 

[missile]

Before we had the guns, we found dry cow turds to be lethal weapons[the bigger,the better]. We even had an arms race of sorts, with each side hoarding all the better turds.

 

[missile]

I wonder what kind of a gun would Jesus carry? It would have to be American made as the entire nation is his one and only

 

[Reverend Blair]

I always figured he'd prefer the AK47. Most of his followers were poor and you can trade an AK-47 for a chicken in a lot of developing nations. Besides, if you read his doctrine he ws basically a communist and the AK-47 was invented in USSR.

 

[missile]

I can just see it now. Upon his return: "He's Back..And Now He's Packing"