You gots it canucklehead..you just look down them mountains and start humming We'll meet again...don't know where, don't know when....But I know we'll meet again some sunny day. :lol: :lol:
Ten Paces then DRAW!
- Thread starter Canucklehead
- Start date
Hank , according to Michael Moore's Bowling for Columbine, Canada has more gun ownership per capita than does the U.S. ... yet... somehow... we have fewer gun related deaths. MM couldn't explain it, can you? (i'll give you that most gun ownership is hunting related...as in animals.. not fellow hoomans)
edit: Canuckleheadedness in action
edit: Canuckleheadedness in action
Re: RE: Ten Paces then DRAW!
Well Henry, in Oklahoma, over half of each household owns guns. That means home invasions here are very unlikely unless the invaders know the family and know they don't have any firearms in the home. Here we have the freedom by law to protect ourselves and our property with whatever force necessary.
Do you know what would happen if civilians could no longer own guns? Home burglaries would sky rocket as would armed robberies at other establishments such as jewlery stores since the civilian jewelery store worker could no longer have a gun with him at work.
Hard-Luck Henry said:
Well Henry, in Oklahoma, over half of each household owns guns. That means home invasions here are very unlikely unless the invaders know the family and know they don't have any firearms in the home. Here we have the freedom by law to protect ourselves and our property with whatever force necessary.
Do you know what would happen if civilians could no longer own guns? Home burglaries would sky rocket as would armed robberies at other establishments such as jewlery stores since the civilian jewelery store worker could no longer have a gun with him at work.
FACT: In 2002, incidents of gun murders, gun suicides, and unintentional shootings in Illinois killed 146 children and adolescents under age 19, a decrease of 17% from the 2001 total of 175 Illinois youth killed by guns.
-Numbers obtained from CDC National Center for Health Statistics mortality report online, 2005.
FACT: Nationwide for 2002, gun violence killed 2,893 American children and teens ages 19 and under, a decrease of only 1% from the nationwide 2001 total of 2,937. While these numbers have been steadily decreasing over the past five years, an average of 8 young people killed each day by guns in the U.S is still too many.
-Numbers obtained from CDC National Center for Health Statistics mortality report online, 2005.
FACT: In 2002, a total of 828 young Americans ages 10-19 committed suicide with firearms, a decrease of 11% from the 2001 total of 928 youth gun suicides. Unlike suicide attempts using other methods, suicide attempts with guns are nearly always fatal, meaning a temporarily depressed teenager will never get a second chance at life. Nearly two-thirds of all completed teenage suicides involve a firearm.
-Numbers obtained from CDC National Center for Health Statistics mortality report online, 2005.
FACT: The firearms used in 72% of unintentional firearm deaths and injuries, and in firearm suicide attempts and completions, for people ages 0-19 were stored in the residence of the victim, their relative, or their friend.
- Harborview Injury Prevention and Research Study, published in the Archives of Pediatric & Adolescent Medicine, August 1999
FACT: In 2002, the gun death rate for African-American males ages 15 to 19 was 56 per 100,000, a large disparity compared to white males of the same age (14 per 100,000). For black males ages 20-24, the gun death rate was even higher at 120 per 100,000, an even greater disparity compared to white males of the same age group (23 per 100,000).
-Numbers obtained from CDC National Center for Health Statistics mortality report online, 2005.
-Numbers obtained from CDC National Center for Health Statistics mortality report online, 2005.
FACT: Nationwide for 2002, gun violence killed 2,893 American children and teens ages 19 and under, a decrease of only 1% from the nationwide 2001 total of 2,937. While these numbers have been steadily decreasing over the past five years, an average of 8 young people killed each day by guns in the U.S is still too many.
-Numbers obtained from CDC National Center for Health Statistics mortality report online, 2005.
FACT: In 2002, a total of 828 young Americans ages 10-19 committed suicide with firearms, a decrease of 11% from the 2001 total of 928 youth gun suicides. Unlike suicide attempts using other methods, suicide attempts with guns are nearly always fatal, meaning a temporarily depressed teenager will never get a second chance at life. Nearly two-thirds of all completed teenage suicides involve a firearm.
-Numbers obtained from CDC National Center for Health Statistics mortality report online, 2005.
FACT: The firearms used in 72% of unintentional firearm deaths and injuries, and in firearm suicide attempts and completions, for people ages 0-19 were stored in the residence of the victim, their relative, or their friend.
- Harborview Injury Prevention and Research Study, published in the Archives of Pediatric & Adolescent Medicine, August 1999
FACT: In 2002, the gun death rate for African-American males ages 15 to 19 was 56 per 100,000, a large disparity compared to white males of the same age (14 per 100,000). For black males ages 20-24, the gun death rate was even higher at 120 per 100,000, an even greater disparity compared to white males of the same age group (23 per 100,000).
-Numbers obtained from CDC National Center for Health Statistics mortality report online, 2005.
General Gun Violence Statistics
FACT:In 2002, there were 30,242 gun deaths in the U.S:
17,108 suicides (56% of all U.S gun deaths),
11,829 homicides (39% of all U.S gun deaths),
762 unintentional shootings (3% of all U.S gun deaths),
and 300 from legal intervention and 243 from undetermined intent (2% of all U.S gun deaths combined).
-Numbers obtained from CDC National Center for Health Statistics mortality report online, 2005.
FACT: In 2002, there were 1,231 gun deaths in the state of Illinois, a 5% decrease from 2001 Illinois gun deaths. The 2002 Illinois gun deaths included:
728 homicides (59% of all IL gun deaths),
466 suicides (38% of all IL gun deaths),
and 17 unintentional shootings, 6 legal intervention, and 14 of undetermined intent (3% of all IL gun deaths combined).
-Numbers obtained from CDC National Center for Health Statistics mortality report online, 2005.
FACT: Suicide is still the leading cause of firearm death in the U.S., representing 56% of total 2002 gun deaths nationwide. In 2002, the U.S. firearm suicide total was 17,108, a 1% increase from 2001 numbers. Total gun suicides in Illinois for 2002 were 466, a decrease of 8% from the 2001 numbers. Most suicides in the U.S. are committed with firearms.
-Numbers obtained from CDC National Center for Health Statistics mortality report online, 2005.
FACT: While handguns account for only one-third of all firearms owned in the United States, they account for more than two-thirds of all firearm-related deaths each year. A gun in the home is 4 times more likely to be involved in an unintentional shooting, 7 times more likely to be used to commit a criminal assault or homicide, and 11 times more likely to be used to attempt or commit suicide than to be used in self-defense.
-A Kellerman, et al. Journal of Trauma, August 1998; Kellerman AL, Lee RK, Mercy JA, et al. "The Epidemiological Basis for the Prevention of Firearm Injuries." Annu.Rev Public Health. 1991; 12:17-40.)
FACT: A gun in the home increases the risk of homicide of a household member by 3 times and the risk of suicide by 5 times compared to homes where no gun is present.
-Kellerman AL, Rivara FP, Somes G, et al. "Suicide in the Home in Relation to Gun Ownership." NEJM. 1992; 327(7):467-472)
FACT: Contrary to popular belief, young children do possess the physical strength to fire a gun: 25% of 3-to-4-year-olds, 70% of 5-to-6-year-olds, and 90% of 7-to-8-year-olds can fire most handguns.
-Naureckas, SM, Christoffel, KK, et al. Archives of Pediatrics and Adolescent Medicine, 1995.
FACT: Comparison of U.S. gun homicides to other industrialized countries:
In 1998 (the most recent year for which this data has been compiled), handguns murdered:
373 people in Germany
151 people in Canada
57 people in Australia
19 people in Japan
54 people in England and Wales, and
11,789 people in the United States
(*Please note that these 1998 numbers account only for HOMICIDES, and do not include suicides, which comprise and even greater number of gun deaths, or unintentional shootings).
- Provided by the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence
FACT: Among 26 industrialized nations, 86% of gun deaths among children under age 15 occurred in the United States.
- Provided by the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence
FACT: Contrary to popular belief, young children do possess the physical strength to fire a gun: 25% of 3 to 4 year olds, 70% of 5 to 6 year olds, and 90% of 7 to 8 year olds can fire most handguns.
- Naureckas, SM, Christoffel, KK, et al. Archives of Pediatrics and Adolescent Medicine, 1995
FACT: Taxpayers pay more than 85% of the medical cost for treatment of firearm-related injuries.
- Martin M, et al. "The Cost of Hospitalization for Firearm Injuries." JAMA. Vol 260, November 25, 1998, pp 3048, and Ordog et al. "Hospital Costs of Firearm Injuries." Abstract. Journal of Trauma. February 1995, p1)
FACT: While handguns account for only one-third of all firearms owned in the United States, they account for more than two-thirds of all firearm-related deaths each year. A gun kept in the home is 22 times more likely to be used in a homicide, suicide or unintentional shooting than to be used in self-defense.
- Kellerman AL, Lee RK, Mercy JA, et al. "The Epidemiological Basis for the Prevention of Firearm Injuries." Annu. Rev. Public Health. 1991; 12:17-40
FACT:In 2002, there were 30,242 gun deaths in the U.S:
17,108 suicides (56% of all U.S gun deaths),
11,829 homicides (39% of all U.S gun deaths),
762 unintentional shootings (3% of all U.S gun deaths),
and 300 from legal intervention and 243 from undetermined intent (2% of all U.S gun deaths combined).
-Numbers obtained from CDC National Center for Health Statistics mortality report online, 2005.
FACT: In 2002, there were 1,231 gun deaths in the state of Illinois, a 5% decrease from 2001 Illinois gun deaths. The 2002 Illinois gun deaths included:
728 homicides (59% of all IL gun deaths),
466 suicides (38% of all IL gun deaths),
and 17 unintentional shootings, 6 legal intervention, and 14 of undetermined intent (3% of all IL gun deaths combined).
-Numbers obtained from CDC National Center for Health Statistics mortality report online, 2005.
FACT: Suicide is still the leading cause of firearm death in the U.S., representing 56% of total 2002 gun deaths nationwide. In 2002, the U.S. firearm suicide total was 17,108, a 1% increase from 2001 numbers. Total gun suicides in Illinois for 2002 were 466, a decrease of 8% from the 2001 numbers. Most suicides in the U.S. are committed with firearms.
-Numbers obtained from CDC National Center for Health Statistics mortality report online, 2005.
FACT: While handguns account for only one-third of all firearms owned in the United States, they account for more than two-thirds of all firearm-related deaths each year. A gun in the home is 4 times more likely to be involved in an unintentional shooting, 7 times more likely to be used to commit a criminal assault or homicide, and 11 times more likely to be used to attempt or commit suicide than to be used in self-defense.
-A Kellerman, et al. Journal of Trauma, August 1998; Kellerman AL, Lee RK, Mercy JA, et al. "The Epidemiological Basis for the Prevention of Firearm Injuries." Annu.Rev Public Health. 1991; 12:17-40.)
FACT: A gun in the home increases the risk of homicide of a household member by 3 times and the risk of suicide by 5 times compared to homes where no gun is present.
-Kellerman AL, Rivara FP, Somes G, et al. "Suicide in the Home in Relation to Gun Ownership." NEJM. 1992; 327(7):467-472)
FACT: Contrary to popular belief, young children do possess the physical strength to fire a gun: 25% of 3-to-4-year-olds, 70% of 5-to-6-year-olds, and 90% of 7-to-8-year-olds can fire most handguns.
-Naureckas, SM, Christoffel, KK, et al. Archives of Pediatrics and Adolescent Medicine, 1995.
FACT: Comparison of U.S. gun homicides to other industrialized countries:
In 1998 (the most recent year for which this data has been compiled), handguns murdered:
373 people in Germany
151 people in Canada
57 people in Australia
19 people in Japan
54 people in England and Wales, and
11,789 people in the United States
(*Please note that these 1998 numbers account only for HOMICIDES, and do not include suicides, which comprise and even greater number of gun deaths, or unintentional shootings).
- Provided by the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence
FACT: Among 26 industrialized nations, 86% of gun deaths among children under age 15 occurred in the United States.
- Provided by the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence
FACT: Contrary to popular belief, young children do possess the physical strength to fire a gun: 25% of 3 to 4 year olds, 70% of 5 to 6 year olds, and 90% of 7 to 8 year olds can fire most handguns.
- Naureckas, SM, Christoffel, KK, et al. Archives of Pediatrics and Adolescent Medicine, 1995
FACT: Taxpayers pay more than 85% of the medical cost for treatment of firearm-related injuries.
- Martin M, et al. "The Cost of Hospitalization for Firearm Injuries." JAMA. Vol 260, November 25, 1998, pp 3048, and Ordog et al. "Hospital Costs of Firearm Injuries." Abstract. Journal of Trauma. February 1995, p1)
FACT: While handguns account for only one-third of all firearms owned in the United States, they account for more than two-thirds of all firearm-related deaths each year. A gun kept in the home is 22 times more likely to be used in a homicide, suicide or unintentional shooting than to be used in self-defense.
- Kellerman AL, Lee RK, Mercy JA, et al. "The Epidemiological Basis for the Prevention of Firearm Injuries." Annu. Rev. Public Health. 1991; 12:17-40
Incidentally, Nascar - "I'm a proud Catholic, The Vatican's view is MY view" - James, what do you suppose the Vatican's view on Gun Control might be?
Of course, being proper Christians, they're very much in favour of it. However, they're opposed to capital punishment. And nuclear proliferation. Oh, and the war in Iraq, too.
It's time you found yourself another cult, James. This one clearly doesn't agree with you.
Of course, being proper Christians, they're very much in favour of it. However, they're opposed to capital punishment. And nuclear proliferation. Oh, and the war in Iraq, too.
It's time you found yourself another cult, James. This one clearly doesn't agree with you.
Hard-Luck Henry said:
Henry, I will not get into this again since it was discussed extensively on another thread, however as I've mentioned before, the bible clearly supports capital punishment.
According to your biased interpretation. But the Vatican does not, James - that is the point, and that is why what you said makes you a hypocrite.
...ummm I don't think he said Canada has more gun ownership per capita than the US.....I recall watching the movie....he said that there is alot of gun ownership in Canada and said we are a gun crazy country.....lie though
.....according to moore there are total 7 million guns in Canada , and there are 32 million people in Canada... but what he dosen't say is that in the USA there are more handguns than there are people....not to mention rifles...and shotguns....so moore is yankin your chain about Canada being a gun crazy country ....except we have much more ownership than Europeans and Australians........
....but again the I will refer to my comparison about Montana & the Dakotas...compared to Sask and Man.... how gun ownership does not always lead to higher homicide rates...go on and do the research.
....also Nascar has a point. The US has declined in crime and homicide's rate in the last decade faster then Canada has... In the early 90's the US had around 26,000 or 27,000 murders a year...and now its around 15,000.....also there is less theft and property crime in the USA than Canada simply because criminals are too scared to rob a house because they might get their face blown off.....
Of course you won't because you were shown to be a hypocrite last time, especially after saying that if people couldn't follow the Vatican they should find another religion. Might I suggest voodoo, James? It would match your economic theories.
Reverend Blair said:
We are going off on a tangent here but I will reply nonetheless.
In 1977, the Vatican wrote that the death penalty is theoretically permissible. General opposition to the death penalty is not a "binding" teaching requiring adherence to by all Catholics. The Vatican had expressed hope "that there no longer be recourse to capital punishment", however it is not a requirement.
Where the hell were you for the last pope? Feck, you say you believe in this shit, but you follow the religion way less than I do. Maybe you should become an atheist, James. Then you might actually listen to what the pope is saying and decide what makes sense to you. That's way better than living the liw you are living right now.
Re: RE: Ten Paces then DRAW!
Rev, on a theoretical level, the Vatican has always supported the right of the state to end the life of a person who has taken another’s life, even before 1977. What don't you understand about that statement? It's plain English.
Reverend Blair said:
Rev, on a theoretical level, the Vatican has always supported the right of the state to end the life of a person who has taken another’s life, even before 1977. What don't you understand about that statement? It's plain English.
One more brief example: In a June 20, 2001 address to members of the organization Priests for Life, Archbishop Renato Martino, the Holy See's ambassador to the United Nations, said: "Our voice must be heard not only in the fight against abortion, but in the fight against euthanasia and capital punishment as well. We can never condone the deliberate taking of human life created in love by God and redeemed in Jesus Christ."
But James can, apparently.
But James can, apparently.
...capital punishment should be brought back to Canada....for the worst offenders......now before you critisize me......think about the Pickton fellow in BC who has possibly killed around 60 women.... and he IS guilty....they found the darn bones on his land.....think of all the poor women who he killed..they were human beings...why are we protecting Pickton....25 years is not enough ..its bullshit....
ok ok ok...I understand that Canadian's are scared of capital punishment (dont ask me why) but there are also some US states that don't preform capital punishment...instead they have concurrent life sentences so you will be in jail for the rest of you friggin life...and if there is an after life..you will fry in it too.....
...so if Canada does not excercise capital punishment then we should at least give real life sentences.......like 100 or 160 year sentences for the swine.
ok ok ok...I understand that Canadian's are scared of capital punishment (dont ask me why) but there are also some US states that don't preform capital punishment...instead they have concurrent life sentences so you will be in jail for the rest of you friggin life...and if there is an after life..you will fry in it too.....
...so if Canada does not excercise capital punishment then we should at least give real life sentences.......like 100 or 160 year sentences for the swine.
Since we went off on a tangent here, might as well elaborate further. In theoretically supporting capital punishment, the Vatican is simply suporting the Bible, both the Old and New Testaments.
From the Old Testament everyone knows that death was a sentence justly inflicted for certain crimes, commanded by God Himself (Genesis 9:6; Exodus 22:18; Psalm 100:8; etc...).
In addition, from the New Testamant we recall that "the wages of sin is death" (Romans 6:23), and that somebody who kills another human being unjustly deserves to die himself. If St. Paul had thought capital punishment to be incompatible with the Gospel, he would not have written these lines. Other Scripture passages from the New Testament that can be used to show the legitimacy of capital punishment are John 19:11 and 1 Peter 2:13.
From the Old Testament everyone knows that death was a sentence justly inflicted for certain crimes, commanded by God Himself (Genesis 9:6; Exodus 22:18; Psalm 100:8; etc...).
In addition, from the New Testamant we recall that "the wages of sin is death" (Romans 6:23), and that somebody who kills another human being unjustly deserves to die himself. If St. Paul had thought capital punishment to be incompatible with the Gospel, he would not have written these lines. Other Scripture passages from the New Testament that can be used to show the legitimacy of capital punishment are John 19:11 and 1 Peter 2:13.
That also means the executioner and the man who writes his cheque. Since at least one innocent man was murdered by the state of Texas when Georgie was governor, then you have no choice but to call for the execution on George Bush.
Comfie with that, Nero?
Hmm...not to pull you guys back into the discussion or nothing....but...I am wondering why the insurance companies haven't stepped in . Someone who doesn't have a gun should not have to pay as much as someone who does have a gun.
There is no chance of an accidental death to to a discharge in a home.
There is no chance of someone breaking into a home that would steal firearms, thus flooding the streets with illegal weapons.
I am really surprised the insurance companies haven't thought of this. We all no how much the insurance companies will charge. I think I'll write a couple.
There is no chance of an accidental death to to a discharge in a home.
There is no chance of someone breaking into a home that would steal firearms, thus flooding the streets with illegal weapons.
I am really surprised the insurance companies haven't thought of this. We all no how much the insurance companies will charge. I think I'll write a couple.
Re: RE: Ten Paces then DRAW!
Hank, I used to support capital punishment completely. But then I did some reading... about the unreliability of "eyewitness" testimony, about Project Innocence in the US, about numerous real cases where innocent men were imprisoned for years or even executed. I have no problem with capital punishment in theory. What I have a problem with is the reality of applying that punishment:
1) innocent people will get convicted and could be executed
2) poor people with bad public defenders will disproportionately get the death penalty
3) blacks will also disproportionately receive the death penalty
In light of these problems I no longer support it.
Hank C Cheyenne said:
Hank, I used to support capital punishment completely. But then I did some reading... about the unreliability of "eyewitness" testimony, about Project Innocence in the US, about numerous real cases where innocent men were imprisoned for years or even executed. I have no problem with capital punishment in theory. What I have a problem with is the reality of applying that punishment:
1) innocent people will get convicted and could be executed
2) poor people with bad public defenders will disproportionately get the death penalty
3) blacks will also disproportionately receive the death penalty
In light of these problems I no longer support it.