Ten Paces then DRAW!

[missile]

It's really a shame that the US government hasn't the guts to take on the NRA. The Rev is right: no one living in a city needs to own a gun.Unfortunately,the NRA insists that everyone has the right to own even the most powerful weapons available[rifle or handgun categories]

 

[Nascar_James]

Re: RE: Ten Paces then DRAW!

MMMike,

People in cities don't need guns and these are the ones I'd agree need to register them.

I live in the city and take my guns to the indoor shooting range on week-ends. Does the governmet have a right in telling me to give up my hobby? What about the gun collectors?

Actually, yes they do, if it means a safer society as a whole. I suppose a good question at this point is what are the storage requirements for firearms in the U.S for city residents? Are any secure cases/racks required or is it basically as seen-on-tv where Joe-Paranoid leaves a loaded 44 in the nightstand drawer?

We live in a free society here Canucklehead. We are permitted to keep our firearms available to protect ourselves. I teach my kids about gun safety and how to safely use guns at a young age to avoid any mishaps. When they grow up, they will become responsible gun owners.

I can legally carry my holstered gun with me when I head to the shooting range here in Oklahoma. I can also stop for lunch along the way and even head to a mall and do some shopping with my wife all the while carrying my handgun. At teh library, I would need to check in my gun before entering. All this would not be possible in Canada unless obtaining a special permit, which is unlikely unless working a security type job that requires a gun.

Also here there is no requirement for any gun license, let alone registration. If you are a law abiding individual you may legally purchase a firearm with no restrictions. A quick FBI check is done at the time of purchase.

 

[Canucklehead]

Obtaining and owning a handgun should be a serious pain in the ass. They are a coward's weapon. If the cops let ya have one but required you to tell them where you were going with it at all times then good for them Making a farmer, otoh, call to say he's off to shoot a gopher (not our board member of course ) or a groundhog in his field is completely different.

 

[Canucklehead]

Re: RE: Ten Paces then DRAW!

MMMike,

People in cities don't need guns and these are the ones I'd agree need to register them.

I live in the city and take my guns to the indoor shooting range on week-ends. Does the governmet have a right in telling me to give up my hobby? What about the gun collectors?

Actually, yes they do, if it means a safer society as a whole. I suppose a good question at this point is what are the storage requirements for firearms in the U.S for city residents? Are any secure cases/racks required or is it basically as seen-on-tv where Joe-Paranoid leaves a loaded 44 in the nightstand drawer?

We live in a free society here Canucklehead. We are permitted to keep our firearms available to protect ourselves. I teach my kids about gun safety and how to safely use guns at a young age to avoid any mishaps. When they grow up, they will become responsible gun owners.

I can legally carry my holstered gun with me when I head to the shooting range here in Oklahoma. I can also stop for lunch along the way and even head to a mall and do some shopping with my wife all the while carrying my handgun. At teh library, I would need to check in my gun before entering. All this would not be possible in Canada unless obtaining a special permit, which is unlikely unless working a security type job that requires a gun.

Also here there is no requirement for any gun license, let alone registration. If you are a law abiding individual you may legally purchase a firearm with no restrictions. A quick FBI check is done at the time of purchase.

THAT scares the shit outta me! So basically if the FBI hasnt had someone under investigation or the person hasn't been convicted of a violent offence then it's all good and they can buy a gun?

 

[Nascar_James]

Re: RE: Ten Paces then DRAW!

MMMike,

People in cities don't need guns and these are the ones I'd agree need to register them.

I live in the city and take my guns to the indoor shooting range on week-ends. Does the governmet have a right in telling me to give up my hobby? What about the gun collectors?

Actually, yes they do, if it means a safer society as a whole. I suppose a good question at this point is what are the storage requirements for firearms in the U.S for city residents? Are any secure cases/racks required or is it basically as seen-on-tv where Joe-Paranoid leaves a loaded 44 in the nightstand drawer?

We live in a free society here Canucklehead. We are permitted to keep our firearms available to protect ourselves. I teach my kids about gun safety and how to safely use guns at a young age to avoid any mishaps. When they grow up, they will become responsible gun owners.

I can legally carry my holstered gun with me when I head to the shooting range here in Oklahoma. I can also stop for lunch along the way and even head to a mall and do some shopping with my wife all the while carrying my handgun. At teh library, I would need to check in my gun before entering. All this would not be possible in Canada unless obtaining a special permit, which is unlikely unless working a security type job that requires a gun.

Also here there is no requirement for any gun license, let alone registration. If you are a law abiding individual you may legally purchase a firearm with no restrictions. A quick FBI check is done at the time of purchase.

THAT scares the shit outta me! So basically if the FBI hasnt had someone under investigation or the person hasn't been convicted of a violent offence then it's all good and they can buy a gun?

Yep, at least here in Oklahoma. Don't you just love freedom.

 

[Canucklehead]

Re: RE: Ten Paces then DRAW!

MMMike,

People in cities don't need guns and these are the ones I'd agree need to register them.

I live in the city and take my guns to the indoor shooting range on week-ends. Does the governmet have a right in telling me to give up my hobby? What about the gun collectors?

Actually, yes they do, if it means a safer society as a whole. I suppose a good question at this point is what are the storage requirements for firearms in the U.S for city residents? Are any secure cases/racks required or is it basically as seen-on-tv where Joe-Paranoid leaves a loaded 44 in the nightstand drawer?

We live in a free society here Canucklehead. We are permitted to keep our firearms available to protect ourselves. I teach my kids about gun safety and how to safely use guns at a young age to avoid any mishaps. When they grow up, they will become responsible gun owners.

I can legally carry my holstered gun with me when I head to the shooting range here in Oklahoma. I can also stop for lunch along the way and even head to a mall and do some shopping with my wife all the while carrying my handgun. At teh library, I would need to check in my gun before entering. All this would not be possible in Canada unless obtaining a special permit, which is unlikely unless working a security type job that requires a gun.

Also here there is no requirement for any gun license, let alone registration. If you are a law abiding individual you may legally purchase a firearm with no restrictions. A quick FBI check is done at the time of purchase.

THAT scares the shit outta me! So basically if the FBI hasnt had someone under investigation or the person hasn't been convicted of a violent offence then it's all good and they can buy a gun?

Yep, at least here in Oklahoma. Don't you just love freedom.

So... according to OK law... the right to defend oneself trumps one's right to safely move through society? Hmmm something seems very backasswards here

 

[Reverend Blair]

Is ten bucks a year too much of a cost, Canucklehead? See, that's what I don't get...everybody complained about the cost of registering when it was ten bucks, so they dropped the fee.

Now, I know a lot of hunters. I know a lot of farmers. They all drive trucks, usually 4x4s, that cost 50 bucks minimum (back when gas was cheap) to fill up and use a lot of gas. They can afford the $20 K cost of that truck (again, back when trucks were cheaper) and they could afford to register that truck. They couldn't afford ten bucks a gun though.

Now the bitching is about the $2 billion. A lot of that wouldn't be there if owners would pony up their ten bucks, but instead it's paid for by all taxpayers. Those who apparently couldn't afford the ten bucks a gun further pushed the cost up by doing brilliant things like registering soldering guns in an attempt to mess up the system.

The Liberals did drastically underestimate the cost and the number of guns that would need to registered.

Now two billion seems like a lot of money, but if you look at the government's operating budget it's really just a drop in the bucket. That's especially true when you take into account that's the accrued cost, not a yearly cost, and now that the registry is in place the costs are quite low.

Cancelling the registry won't bring back money that's already spent. The Reform/Alliance/Consrvatives have done nothing to address gun crime and offered no real alternatives or improvements to the registry. Instead they had Chuck Heston come up here and tell us what are rights are under the US constitution because, apparently, neither Heston nor the Reform/Alliance/Conservatives realise that the US constitution does not apply in Canada.

When having Heston rant a rave like a murderous lunatic didn't work, they fell back on that old right-wing tactic of whining like spoiled, none-to-bright brats. That hasn't worked yet, and won't, but they haven't figured that out yet.

 

[Canucklehead]

$10 a year is nothing, Rev. What I object to is the selling of this registry as a way to protect us from ourselves and reduce crime. Two things which are a joke and would not be affected by registering a rifle. Handguns, I have already said, should be registered. Hunting rifles (Canadian style, not the U.S. M-16 to take out a deer style) should have been exempt.

I fully agree that removing the registry could be costly at this point. mostly because of employment contracts etc vs. tossing a few servers into an incinerator. 2 billion dollars on a national level IS peanuts(hell that's 20-30% of the typical surplus these days)... as is the few hundred million in the sponsership fiasco...but we were lied to or at the very least willfully misdirected in the sales pitch that gained the registry support in the first place.

 

[Reverend Blair]

We got the registry because of the urban/rural split though. After the l'ecole politechnique massacre, there was huge pressure for gun control. The Liberals, who depend on an urban voter base and know little about guns, gave us the Gun Registry. Preston Manning grabbed it as a western/conservative issue even though the NDP of the day was more effective in getting changes for native groups etc. and Manning was wholly ineffective at getting any changes or even having any input.

You should also keep in mind that most of the gun crime at the time the registry was brought in was much more based on legally-owned weapons that had been stolen or were being mis-used.

The pressure for gun control is still there, and the registry is considered to have had a positive effect among urban voters. That consideration is not without reason because, while gun crime still exists and has gotten worse, the kind of gun crime that the registry targeted has declined...the criminals are bringing in guns that are illegal now. That they have turned to another source is arguably a sign that the registry has been successful.

 

[MMMike]

It always comes down to money with you guys, doesn't it? If the registry has saved one life is that worth $2 billion? How about two lives? Does it matter if saved the life of a rich person or a poor person? Is a lawyer's life worth more than somebody on welfare? What about the life of a criminal? What is a human life worth to you, MMMikey?

:roll: What a childish answer. We have a fixed budget, and it is our responsibility to spend it as wisely as possible. That means you don't spend $2 billion on a registry to save one life when you could put it elsewhere and save 1,000 lives.

 

[Reverend Blair]

Where else would you put it? Law enforcement? That's up to the cities and provinces in most places. They even pay the RCMP for patrolling. You don't want to shut the border down. You don't want any other form of gun control. So where would you spend the two billion?

 

[Nascar_James]

Re: RE: Ten Paces then DRAW!

MMMike,

People in cities don't need guns and these are the ones I'd agree need to register them.

I live in the city and take my guns to the indoor shooting range on week-ends. Does the governmet have a right in telling me to give up my hobby? What about the gun collectors?

Actually, yes they do, if it means a safer society as a whole.

Hah. This type of thinking is right up the criminal's alley. Do you know what would happen if we eliminated guns from law abiding civilians? Only the criminals and police would have guns. This would give the criminals an enormous advantage since they know the only resistance they will encounter during a crime with guns will be from the police. This would also put an enormous burden on the police. Criminals would start coming out of the woodworks.

 

[Andygal]

Hah. This type of thinking is right up the criminal's alley. Do you know what would happen if we eliminated guns from law abiding civilians? Only the criminals and police would have guns. This would give the criminals an erormous advantage since they know the only resistance they will encounter during a crime with guns will be from the police. This would also put an enormous burden on the police. Criminals would start coming out of the woodworks.

Where do you think criminal get guns? Many of them steal guns from law-abiding people. Others buy them just like anybody else.

If they can't steal them and they can't buy them it it will make things much harder for them.

 

[Hard-Luck Henry]

Re: RE: Ten Paces then DRAW!

Hah. This type of thinking is right up the criminal's alley. Do you know what would happen if we eliminated guns from law abiding civilians? Only the criminals and police would have guns. This would give the criminals an erormous advantage since they know the only resistance they will encounter during a crime with guns will be from the police. This would also put an enormous burden on the police. Criminals would start coming out of the woodworks.

Aah, I get it ... in the U.S. you have so little crime because you have so many guns. The only thing stopping your crime rate from soaring, is that the criminal population is afraid of running into Nascar "Swift Justice" James, and his trusty six gun.

Nascar, you excel yourself. :roll:

 

[Hank C Cheyenne]

The Canadian government has taken a hands-off, relaxed view of drug laws(pot/hash/oil only), including the sale of naturally occuring plant seeds. What makes the U.S. think they can bully us into arresting our own citizens for something that is a crime in another country. This is tit-for-tat... and with the attitudes down south these days there will prolly be more of it coming down the pipe.

....and vice versa, don't you think? What makes Canadians think they can tell they US to change gun laws? ...sure guns from the US pour into Canada....but don't millions if not billions worth in pot and other drugs flow into the USA via CDA? Wake up and look at it from a two sided angle..... :roll:

It always comes down to money with you guys, doesn't it? If the registry has saved one life is that worth $2 billion? How about two lives? Does it matter if saved the life of a rich person or a poor person? Is a lawyer's life worth more than somebody on welfare? What about the life of a criminal? What is a human life worth to you, MMMikey?

...ohhh Rev you gettin all philosophical on us..... fact is that most anything would have been better spending of the billions on the gun registry......shit how many people die on the trans Canada each year?....hell if we woulda spent the 2 billion on the transcanada (deathtrap) in the BC mountain region...we woulda saved more lives.... :roll:

 

[peapod]

I don't think so henry...about the crime I mean...but I will go find out. :lol: :lol:

 

[Canucklehead]

The Canadian government has taken a hands-off, relaxed view of drug laws(pot/hash/oil only), including the sale of naturally occuring plant seeds. What makes the U.S. think they can bully us into arresting our own citizens for something that is a crime in another country. This is tit-for-tat... and with the attitudes down south these days there will prolly be more of it coming down the pipe.

....and vice versa, don't you think? What makes Canadians think they can tell they US to change gun laws? ...sure guns from the US pour into Canada....but don't millions if not billions worth in pot and other drugs flow into the USA via CDA? Wake up and look at it from a two sided angle..... :roll:

It always comes down to money with you guys, doesn't it? If the registry has saved one life is that worth $2 billion? How about two lives? Does it matter if saved the life of a rich person or a poor person? Is a lawyer's life worth more than somebody on welfare? What about the life of a criminal? What is a human life worth to you, MMMikey?

...ohhh Rev you gettin all philosophical on us..... fact is that most anything would have been better spending of the billions on the gun registry......shit how many people die on the trans Canada each year?....hell if we woulda spent the 2 billion on the transcanada (deathtrap) in the BC mountain region...we woulda saved more lives.... :roll:

Hank, yes, absolutely... read my post... i said point blank that this was a tit-for-tat measure. Do unto others and all that jazz :roll:

 

[peapod]

2 billion on the transcanada (deathtrap) in the BC mountain region.

Ehm.....you could always learn to drive and not be ascared..of a little altitude... :wink:

 

[Hank C Cheyenne]

...the simple fact is that in the USA black people are predominantly involved in the gun crimes and homicides....and in Canada the Indian's are are predominantely involved in our crimes. Again don't believe me, go look it up.....I'm not saying that there isen't a reason behind this...probably the poverty.

....but interensting fact is that in some states with very very high gun ownership there is very very low crime....take North Dakota or Montana as an example....very small populations similar to Sask and manitoba population wise and economically. Although the lax gun laws in these states make the ownership rate very high.....way above the rate of Sask or Man, probably close to double the rate. But did you know that Sask and Man have a higher murder rate?...don't beleive me...go look it up.....

Also Alberta has the highest gun ownership rate in Canada.....very close to the USA avg..... I don't have the exact number but I beleive around 39% Alberta households contain firearms, while the USA avg is probably in the low 40% range...... but then again Alberta overall dosen't have the highest crime and homicide rates?......there is more to this than gun ownership fellas...

..but another interesting point is that although the UK has almost twice Canada's population we have twice the gun murder rate.....60 vs 130 gun murders I think

 

[Canucklehead]

LOL, Pea. the best experience I had whilst living in BC was stopping at the Pennask summit between Merritt and Kelowna because it was mid-JULY and 10-12cm of snow was on the road. Freaky to see for an Ontario boy and what a view!! ...but... oh ya..the point... the driving was a snap 8)