Suicide as an alternative?

[Curiosity]

It is an entirely personal and individual choice

I see no reason why a person who reaches a deadly painful situation should not be allowed to have a say in the outcome if death was the eventual and only choice.

If members of the family or friends were in disagreement - that would be their decision. It should not influence a personal sense of responsibility for one's own actions.

I think society should seek to discuss it in the open and understand before it is necessary to understand that a person may opt for that choice if and when that issue should present itself.

We attach far too much import to our decisions regarding others' lives if death is an impending visitor.

 

[Dexter Sinister]

My favorite subject and heavy on my heart as of late. Ive tried to commit suicide many many many times. Obviously I screwed up many many many times. Sometimes life hurts so bad that ending it feels like the only solution. I stopped wanting to end my existance 5 years ago.

Whoa, self, that's an awful thing to hear from anybody (except for the last sentence), and especially somebody who's as kind and thoughtful as you appear to be. It's frankly beyond my imagination to conceive of a life so distressing that suicide would seem to be a good solution, so I'm not really sure I'm entitled to have an opinion about this, but that doesn't usually stop me... Terminal illness is quite another matter, and in a case like that it seems perfectly reasonable to me that a sufferer is entitled to decide to bail out of life while it's still possible to make that choice. I'm glad the suicide attempts are among the things you screwed up at, and I'm glad you quit trying five years ago. Even at the lowest point of my life, depressed, miserable, unemployed, away from home and family, abandoned by wife and friends, or at least by the people I thought were friends (turned out they were my ex's friends, not mine), suicide never occurred to me. There's something inside me that keeps saying "never surrender, never surrender, never surrender..." To end your life essentially because you're unhappy I find a deeply distressing idea.

I find it so distressing because it's so unnecessary. The man you describe as your soulmate helped save your life by helping you find something of that "never surrender" in yourself. That means it was always there, he didn't give it to you, you just needed a little help locating it. We all need help sometimes, and if there's any reason at all for our existence beyond the physical and chemical processes that make it possible, that's gotta be it. I think we have to make our own meanings in an indifferent cosmos, and they are to be found in our relationships with others, in what we can do to, with, for, and sometimes in spite of, those we love best.

And now that man lies wounded and ill after a stroke. I don't know what to say about that, so I'll borrow somebody else's words. This is John Jakes from his historical novel Heaven and Hell, about the U.S. Civil War:

"Every day of our lives , we live with stupid mischance and clumsy melodrama, cupidity, greed, unnecessary suffering. We forget it, we mask it, we try to order it with our arts and philosophies, numb ourselves to it with diversions, or with drink... We try to explain and compensate for it with our religions. But it's always there, very close, like some poor deformed beast hiding behind the thinnest of curtains. Once in a while the curtain is torn down and we're forced to look.

"But life's not logical. Some never see the beast at all. Some see it again and again, and there seems no sense to any of it. But when we look, something happens. What happens is that childhood comes to an end. Parents call it growing up, and they use the phrase much too casually. Growing up is looking at the beast and knowing it's immortal and you are not. It's dealing with that."

 

[the caracal kid]

Part of the problem in the western world is an obssession with quantity of life over quality of life. Its a numbers game. Perhaps a reflection of a cultural fear of death, which is connected to the western world's most widely spread religion.

 

[Curiosity]

CaracalKid

Suicide and euthanasia and abortion have been equated to a fast trip to hell by major religious groups - that may have been implanted into our culture - and has played a large role in our avoidance of it.

I have read of some cultures and earlier ethnic society members who have departed the tribe or group and gone into the frozen wilderness or set out on a waterway to await death by exposure - apparently painless if it is cold enough - that sleep comes and helps the passing. Also when people are too old to continue travel with a moving group of settlers, they were left to die rather than be a handicap to the people.

I see nothing wrong however in the act as it is a solo decision and event perpetrated by one upon oneself.
It cannot be murder.

 

[the caracal kid]

I agree it cannot be murder.

 

[selfactivated]

Whoa, self, that's an awful thing to hear from anybody (except for the last sentence), and especially somebody who's as kind and thoughtful as you appear to be. It's frankly beyond my imagination to conceive of a life so distressing that suicide would seem to be a good solution, so I'm not really sure I'm entitled to have an opinion about this, but that doesn't usually stop me... Terminal illness is quite another matter, and in a case like that it seems perfectly reasonable to me that a sufferer is entitled to decide to bail out of life while it's still possible to make that choice. I'm glad the suicide attempts are among the things you screwed up at, and I'm glad you quit trying five years ago. Even at the lowest point of my life, depressed, miserable, unemployed, away from home and family, abandoned by wife and friends, or at least by the people I thought were friends (turned out they were my ex's friends, not mine), suicide never occurred to me. There's something inside me that keeps saying "never surrender, never surrender, never surrender..." To end your life essentially because you're unhappy I find a deeply distressing idea.

I find it so distressing because it's so unnecessary. The man you describe as your soulmate helped save your life by helping you find something of that "never surrender" in yourself. That means it was always there, he didn't give it to you, you just needed a little help locating it. We all need help sometimes, and if there's any reason at all for our existence beyond the physical and chemical processes that make it possible, that's gotta be it. I think we have to make our own meanings in an indifferent cosmos, and they are to be found in our relationships with others, in what we can do to, with, for, and sometimes in spite of, those we love best.

And now that man lies wounded and ill after a stroke. I don't know what to say about that, so I'll borrow somebody else's words. This is John Jakes from his historical novel Heaven and Hell, about the U.S. Civil War:

"Every day of our lives , we live with stupid mischance and clumsy melodrama, cupidity, greed, unnecessary suffering. We forget it, we mask it, we try to order it with our arts and philosophies, numb ourselves to it with diversions, or with drink... We try to explain and compensate for it with our religions. But it's always there, very close, like some poor deformed beast hiding behind the thinnest of curtains. Once in a while the curtain is torn down and we're forced to look.

"But life's not logical. Some never see the beast at all. Some see it again and again, and there seems no sense to any of it. But when we look, something happens. What happens is that childhood comes to an end. Parents call it growing up, and they use the phrase much too casually. Growing up is looking at the beast and knowing it's immortal and you are not. It's dealing with that."

Oh Dex you sound so much like my Bri. He tells me that seeing my beauty through his eyes is just me acknowledging the mirror of my own soul. I recently oppologized to both my daughters for being so selfish during their lives. Theyre such jewels even on their worst days lol A friend helped me see the selfishness actually 2 friends. One committed suicide leaving a 4 year old behind. I was SO angry! And another.....well that's her story to tell. She made me see that I wasnt hurting me I was tearing my children up for the rest of their lives. It finally clicked, I got it. Even when Critter died, even now, I feel so empty and raw at times but not suicidal. Id dishonour my path, my soulmate, my children but mostly myself.

Ive been told I open my life up to much on this forum but if just one of my experiences reach out to another its so worth the time to type it. I wish I was half as eloquant as you are Dex, because maybe my meaning would get across better. Thank You for talking to me I really appreciate it.

Namaste
Tam

 

[Dexter Sinister]

Oh Dex you sound so much like my Bri.

Thank you. I will take that as a huge compliment.

I wish I was half as eloquant as you are Dex, because maybe my meaning would get across better.

Oh, I think you do pretty well. What really matters is making the effort, and keeping on making the effort. Keep the faith. Never surrender.

 

[selfactivated]

Good advice