Stupidity of Dual Citizenship

Maggiemygosh

New Member
Jul 17, 2006
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Kanata
This crap was created by those idiot Fiberals which is now going to cost us taxpayers millions upon millions of dollars. This dual citizenship has to be stopped.

Read On :

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Fri, July 21 / 06

Convenient Canadians

By PETER WORTHINGTON

What in heaven's name are 50,000 Canadians doing in Lebanon?

Surely they can't all be there for a wedding, or a family reunion, or an academic conference, or even as tourists?

The estimated 50,000 are roughly 20% of all the Lebanese who have become Canadian citizens -- about 250,000 of 'em.

Put another way, there are twice as many Canadians in Lebanon as there are Canadians in the army.

Are they all in Lebanon for a visit? Hardly.

Most are dual-citizenship Canadians who've chosen to return to the motherland to live as Lebanese -- until trouble strikes and then they want the Canadian government to rescue them, not the Lebanese government.

Under terms of Canada's dual citizenship policy, the country in which people choose to live, or to visit, takes precedence over Canadian law -- which isn't to say we, as a country, shouldn't help people in trouble.

Frankly, any dual-citizenship Canadian who chooses to live in one of the danger areas of the world should not expect Canada to rush to his aid and rescue him and relatives when danger threatens.

Instead, appeal to the government you prefer to live under, rather than the Canadian one.

Now Canada is chartering seven ships and a bunch of aircraft to rescue these citizens, many of whom have chosen not to live in Canada. Does Canada have an obligation to be responsible for them? The cost to taxpayers of removing tens of thousands from Lebanon is enormous.

How many, one wonders, of these people will move back to Lebanon when the crisis is over and security is restored -- assuming it ever will be in Lebanon?

The view that "a Canadian is a Canadian" and all should be treated equally may need revising.

Why should the government be responsible for naturalized citizens who return to live in a dangerous country in which they are also citizens?

Tourists or short-term visitors are in a different category.

Some MPs have suggested Canadians in Lebanon whose principal country of residence is Canada, should be rescued first, since those whose primary home is Lebanon are better able to survive than visitors.

Although Lebanese have settled in Canada for well over a century and are productive citizens, Canada's current policies risk clogging the country with people who shouldn't be here and whom we don't want.

Already, we won't deport terrorist suspects or criminals if there's fear they may be executed or tortured in their birth country. This means virtually no bad guy can be deported to the Middle East.

Canadians of Syrian or Iranian descent should avoid visiting Damascus or Tehran where they're in danger of being grabbed on phony charges -- which in no way is to suggest that the Lebanese Canadians being evacuated have done anything illegal.

We already have a self-described al-Qaida family in Canada, with one member charged with murdering an American soldier in Afghanistan. Many feel this family doesn't deserve to be Canadian, since their allegiance is to an enemy of Canada.

Canada accepts that dual citizens have special rights. But the policy needs fine-tuning. It can be argued -- as some countries do -- that allegiance should be to one country, not two or three.

If someone wants to be a Canadian, that person should give up citizenship in his birth country.

An exception should be made with the U.S. on grounds that we are geographically, traditionally and culturally close.

But for other immigrants, the choice should be one citizenship and one passport.

It's too late now for Lebanon, where 50,000 Canadians outnumber Americans by a two-to-one ratio.

Ludicrous. Change the law before the next crisis!

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There it is folks more common sense and intelligence something you will never read or hear from the lefty fiberals or ndp.
 

tamarin

House Member
Jun 12, 2006
3,197
22
38
Oshawa ON
As long as we have such a bird as a dual citizen(ship) Canadian it's no leap to suggest certain Canadians are then more equal than others. Parliament should read them the riot act and force them to choose. As far as rescuing a Canadian, who to all intents and purposes is a permanent Lebanese citizen, I say, 'Go hang!'
This is abuse of our tax dollars and the slippery buggers can rent a villa in some other country closeby while they're waiting to return 'home.'
 

tracy

House Member
Nov 10, 2005
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California
I don't understand why people get so mad about this. Of all the crap we spend our tax dollars on, rescuing a fellow Canadian is what pisses people off?

I think it's too simplistic to say choose one or the other. Some of these countries don't allow you to simply renounce your citizenship. Others make you citizens whether you want to be one or not (through marriage or birth for example). Maybe the conservative author hasn't thought this through. I also don't see why we'd make an exception for the US but not for the UK or Australia or NZ. I'm a Canadian in the US. If I got American citizenship, you'd be ok with the Canadian government rescuing me, but not rescuing me from Costa Rica if I had CostaRican citizenship?

This is just wrong though:
"Canada accepts that dual citizens have special rights."

Dual citizens have no special rights as far as the Canadian government is concerned. Those who hold both Lebanese and Canadian citizenship aren't treated any differently that those who only hold Canadian citizenship and just happen to be in Lebanon.
 

Simpleton

Electoral Member
Jun 17, 2006
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Re: RE: Stupidity of Dual Citizenship

tracy said:
I don't understand why people get so mad about this. Of all the crap we spend our tax dollars on, rescuing a fellow Canadian is what pisses people off?

I don't think that people have a problem with the Canadian government rescuing Canadian citizens from countries that are suddenly at war, I think they have a problem with the kinds of people that are being rescued. I'm talking specifically of those who have no desire to be Canadian citizens, and only use Canadian citizenship as a free-ride out of turmoil that they create for themselves.

If you want to live in Lebanon, renounce your Canadian citizenship. Canada is not a nation that exists to provide free taxi rides for those who are unwilling to get their own houses in order. Citizenship is for those who actually want to be Canadians, and to live in this country.
 

SaintLucifer

Electoral Member
Jul 10, 2006
324
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16
Re: RE: Stupidity of Dual Citizenship

Simpleton said:
tracy said:
I don't understand why people get so mad about this. Of all the crap we spend our tax dollars on, rescuing a fellow Canadian is what pisses people off?

I don't think that people have a problem with the Canadian government rescuing Canadian citizens from countries that are suddenly at war, I think they have a problem with the kinds of people that are being rescued. I'm talking specifically of those who have no desire to be Canadian citizens, and only use Canadian citizenship as a free-ride out of turmoil that they create for themselves.

If you want to live in Lebanon, renounce your Canadian citizenship. Canada is not a nation that exists to provide free taxi rides for those who are unwilling to get their own houses in order. Citizenship is for those who actually want to be Canadians, and to live in this country.

Finally the Simpleton posts something that is absolutely correct where there can most definitely be no argument! Let us rejoice! Sanity makes a comeback!
 

tracy

House Member
Nov 10, 2005
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So since I don't want to live in Canada I should give up my citizenship? That's ludicrous to me. I've been in the US a couple of years and plan to stay a few more. After that, I'm thinking of going to the UK or Australia for a spell. Canada is still home to me. It's still where I plan on living in the future, but barring any unforseen events that probably won't be for a few years. I don't feel any less Canadian because of it.

It is so hard to get Canadian citizenship and the Canadian government is generally so bad at helping its citizens overseas that I seriously doubt any of them are obtaining citizenship just so that the Canadian government will rescue them when something bad happens in Lebanon.
 

Simpleton

Electoral Member
Jun 17, 2006
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Re: RE: Stupidity of Dual Citizenship

tracy said:
So since I don't want to live in Canada I should give up my citizenship? That's ludicrous to me. I've been in the US a couple of years and plan to stay a few more. After that, I'm thinking of going to the UK or Australia for a spell. Canada is still home to me. It's still where I plan on living in the future, but barring any unforseen events that probably won't be for a few years. I don't feel any less Canadian because of it.

It is so hard to get Canadian citizenship and the Canadian government is generally so bad at helping its citizens overseas that I seriously doubt any of them are obtaining citizenship just so that the Canadian government will rescue them when something bad happens in Lebanon.

Wanna bet?

I see your absurdity, and raise you some common sense. :p
 

SaintLucifer

Electoral Member
Jul 10, 2006
324
0
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Re: RE: Stupidity of Dual Citizenship

tracy said:
So since I don't want to live in Canada I should give up my citizenship? That's ludicrous to me. I've been in the US a couple of years and plan to stay a few more. After that, I'm thinking of going to the UK or Australia for a spell. Canada is still home to me. It's still where I plan on living in the future, but barring any unforseen events that probably won't be for a few years. I don't feel any less Canadian because of it.

It is so hard to get Canadian citizenship and the Canadian government is generally so bad at helping its citizens overseas that I seriously doubt any of them are obtaining citizenship just so that the Canadian government will rescue them when something bad happens in Lebanon.


So since I don't want to live in Canada I should give up my citizenship?

Absolutely and without hesitation. Were I the Canadian government you would be gone - pronto! You stated that you do not wish to live in Canada. So what's the problem with my country revoking your citizenship? You do not wish to live here after all. Please do not let the door hit you where your mythical God split you as you leave.


It is so hard to get Canadian citizenship

Absolutely false. Canada is in fact the easiest country in the world in which to immigrate. This is why so many Canadians are becoming angry with Immigration Canada. They just let anyone waltz into Canada as if we owe them Canadian citizenship. This must stop immediately. Coming to Canada to live here is a privilege and not a right!

the Canadian government is generally so bad at helping its citizens overseas that I seriously doubt any of them are obtaining citizenship just so that the Canadian government will rescue them when something bad happens in Lebanon.

What would 50,000 'Canadians' be doing in Lebanon anyway? I would suggest we use taxpayer dollars perhaps to remove those who are actually there on holiday. Permanent residents of Lebanon who own Canadian citizenship should immediately be denied passage aboard either Canadian vessels or those rented out by the government of Canada for the sole purpose of evacuating Canadian citizens. Not only should those permanent residents of Lebanon with Canadian citizenships be denied any form of passage to Canada but they should immediately upon presentation of their so-called Canadian citizenship be stripped of the very same.
 

tracy

House Member
Nov 10, 2005
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Anyone who thinks it's easy to become a Canadian citizen obviously never had to do it as an adult. I hear the same thing from Americans all the time (how easy it is to become a citizen here). They're talking out of their a$$e$. It wasn't easy for me to come here on a work permit, it wouldn't be easy for me to get a greencard, it is certainly not easy to get citizenship.

Here's the problem with Canada revoking my citizenship: I am Canadian. If you think that's just about where a person lives in this moment, you don't get it and never will.

btw, I'm actually agnostic so I don't have any God, mythical or real.
 

#juan

Hall of Fame Member
Aug 30, 2005
18,326
119
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One thing that bothers me a little,

is that a good number of these "Canadians" have been living in Lebanon for eight or ten years. I've read that a Canadian pension will go a lot farther in Lebanon than it will in Canada. Fair enough, but people have to be willing to take the bad along with the good. I have also read that there are a lot of Canadians living in Mexico on their pensions. Should Canada jump up and run to their rescue every time there is a crisis or should these people be expected to take some responsibility for their own actions?
 

tracy

House Member
Nov 10, 2005
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48
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They had to earn their pensions by working a lot of years in Canada, I don't care where they spend them. My parents have friends who moved to Thailand in their retirement (they were not Thai citizens and have no Thai family, they just liked it there after seeing it on vacation).
 

SaintLucifer

Electoral Member
Jul 10, 2006
324
0
16
Re: RE: Stupidity of Dual Citizenship

tracy said:
Anyone who thinks it's easy to become a Canadian citizen obviously never had to do it as an adult. I hear the same thing from Americans all the time (how easy it is to become a citizen here). They're talking out of their a$$e$. It wasn't easy for me to come here on a work permit, it wouldn't be easy for me to get a greencard, it is certainly not easy to get citizenship.

Here's the problem with Canada revoking my citizenship: I am Canadian. If you think that's just about where a person lives in this moment, you don't get it and never will.

btw, I'm actually agnostic so I don't have any God, mythical or real.

A question if you will. Where were you born? Your parents?
 

#juan

Hall of Fame Member
Aug 30, 2005
18,326
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63
Tracy wrote:
They had to earn their pensions by working a lot of years in Canada, I don't care where they spend them. My parents have friends who moved to Thailand in their retirement (they were not Thai citizens and have no Thai family, they just liked it there after seeing it on vacation).

I have no argument with what you say Tracy. It just strikes me as a bit extreme that Canada has to evacuate 50,000 citizens from Lebanon, a good number of whom have obviously made the decision to take up permanent residence in that country. Lebanon has not had a great history of being a peaceful refuge for anyone. Maybe some of these people should have had emergency escape plans of their own ready. Am I being unreasonable?
 

thecdn

Electoral Member
Apr 12, 2006
310
0
16
North Lauderdale, FL
I agree with Tracy, and I'm sure it's just a coincidence I'm in a similar situation :wink:

I posted the following on another forum I frequent where I posted the article in question this morning.

"I might have thought that way before I started living it. As a Canadian, I would never renounce my citizenship of that country. I love it as much as anyone from another place loves their own country. And I always want the option to return 'home' with all normal rights and priviledges. (The wife says we are retiring from south Florida to Canada )

But, we live and work here now. And, barring unforseen circumstances, we will be here for a number of years. Getting our green cards has made a lot of difference in how we felt about being here and were able to travel, and get access to services.

If we stay here longer, maybe we'll want to vote and have some say in which idiots govern the place we live in. Maybe I'll get tired of having Canadian flags at my desk and on my license plate and just want to fit in. (Ok, not likely).

If we were hit by a hurricane I certainly wouldn't expect the Canadian government to come down and help us out. I would deal with my insurance company and the governments of the area where I live.

On the other hand, if I was down here as a tourist and lost everything I think I would appreciate the government helping us get home.

I agree with the part of helping those who are in Lebanon as tourists, on a business trip, etc. But those whose primary residence is not Canada but is Lebanon, no. The Canadian government has no more responsibility to bring those people back than they would my family living here in Florida."
 

cdn_bc_ca

Electoral Member
May 5, 2005
389
1
18
Vancouver
RE: Stupidity of Dual Cit

So you're proposing to adopt a dual standard for Canadians? Those whose primary residence is outside of Canada is less of a Canadian than those living within? Doesn't sound like the Canada I know and love.

Here we are, a first world nation, touting equality amongst ourselves and showing it off to the world then all of a sudden we are willing to sacrifice it on the issue of money....
 

tracy

House Member
Nov 10, 2005
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48
California
Re: RE: Stupidity of Dual Citizenship

SaintLucifer said:
tracy said:
Anyone who thinks it's easy to become a Canadian citizen obviously never had to do it as an adult. I hear the same thing from Americans all the time (how easy it is to become a citizen here). They're talking out of their a$$e$. It wasn't easy for me to come here on a work permit, it wouldn't be easy for me to get a greencard, it is certainly not easy to get citizenship.

Here's the problem with Canada revoking my citizenship: I am Canadian. If you think that's just about where a person lives in this moment, you don't get it and never will.

btw, I'm actually agnostic so I don't have any God, mythical or real.

A question if you will. Where were you born? Your parents?

In Canada. In Canada. As were the grandparents and most of the great grandparents (the scottish set were born in Scotland). I have no ties to any other country in any tangible way. We're of mixed heritage culturally and I don't feel any of them really impact me (scottish, dutch, polish, welsh, irish, russian). We don't have any relatives we know in any of those countries and I have only been to 2 of them when I was 18 doing a eurotour for a total of 8 days. Added to that I'm adopted, so my biological heritage is another matter. I don't feel any ties to any country but Canada. I chose to leave it for work and for the adventure. I will go back to it, but not for another few years at least.
 

thecdn

Electoral Member
Apr 12, 2006
310
0
16
North Lauderdale, FL
Re: RE: Stupidity of Dual Cit

cdn_bc_ca said:
So you're proposing to adopt a dual standard for Canadians? Those whose primary residence is outside of Canada is less of a Canadian than those living within? Doesn't sound like the Canada I know and love.

Here we are, a first world nation, touting equality amongst ourselves and showing it off to the world then all of a sudden we are willing to sacrifice it on the issue of money....

I like Canada's reputation as a kinder and gentler nation, especially as I'm living in the US now.

But 50,000 people in a country with the population and size of Lebanon? That's just crazy. No way can any country let alone one with the limitied resources of Canada be expected to evacuate that many people.

As I said earlier, I wouldn't expect the Canadian government to come to my rescue after a hurricane hit my residence in south Florida, so I don't expect them to rescue those Lebanese-Canadians who have chosen to reside full-time in Lebanon.
 

tracy

House Member
Nov 10, 2005
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#juan said:
Tracy wrote:
They had to earn their pensions by working a lot of years in Canada, I don't care where they spend them. My parents have friends who moved to Thailand in their retirement (they were not Thai citizens and have no Thai family, they just liked it there after seeing it on vacation).

I have no argument with what you say Tracy. It just strikes me as a bit extreme that Canada has to evacuate 50,000 citizens from Lebanon, a good number of whom have obviously made the decision to take up permanent residence in that country. Lebanon has not had a great history of being a peaceful refuge for anyone. Maybe some of these people should have had emergency escape plans of their own ready. Am I being unreasonable?

No, I don't think you're being unreasonable. Canada doesn't HAVE to rescue their citizens overseas in any case. I just don't have a problem with them doing it either. I didn't feel any different when they were helping people get back after the tsunami in SE Asia.
 

EastSideScotian

Stuck in Ontario...bah
Jun 9, 2006
706
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Petawawa Ontario
RE: Stupidity of Dual Cit

Sounds like someones a cry baby.....Guess what Cry baby, No one wants to hear about it, you live in a tolerant Country, if you dont want a tolerant Country that takes care of its Citizens, No matter what race, or what Country they are living in, Maybe you would be better off in iraq, or syria, I think you might fit in better there.

Point is Canadians are Canadians, they deserve the Treatment that any other Canadian would deserve.

I have some friends that are Stranded in Cyprus at the Moment, They are Canadian, why should they be left there because they decided to spend a summer in there Lebenese homeland? And so what if someone is living there, if theya re Canadian they should have the right to the saftey of their Second Homeland, Because thats what we offer our Citizens...all of them