Stephen King tells rich people upset over tax increases: ‘Tough s**t’

[Machjo]

When does the tax come into effect?

In the meantime, consider this; when Que had their last referendum, CP Rail relocated the HQ along with 2500 jobs from Montreal to Calgary. Ever wonder why the chose AB as opposed to more obvious hubs like Toronto, Vancouver or Winnipeg?

If you have to move anyway, then you'll look for the best location economically. But if you don't have to move, you might just bear the tax increase as long as it's reasonable. Also, consider the difference between an impersonal corporation and an indivedual rich person. The person may have family attachments or friends in the local community, so there can be an emotional attachment.

Now just for the record, I support eliminating all corporate income taxes and instead just introduce co-determination legislation to ensure the money does in fact flow down.

 

[mentalfloss]

When does the tax come into effect?

Your point was about the anticipation of the tax. Corporations knew about the possibility at least a month before the budget came into force. None of them have left.

Kevin Milligan, an expert on the economics of public finance who teaches at the University of British Columbia, noted that the top marginal tax rate in Ontario would climb to 49.5 per cent once the 2-per-cent surtax is fully factored in. This means it would still be far less than the closer-to-60-per-cent threshold he pegs as the limit before high taxes start driving top earners to leave, potentially costing more in revenue than the higher levy is supposed to generate.

Crunching the Ontario NDP's tax-the-rich numbers - The Globe and Mail


The tax on the rich adversity is really mountains out of molehills.

 

[captain morgan]

If you have to move anyway, then you'll look for the best location economically. But if you don't have to move, you might just bear the tax increase as long as it's reasonable. Also, consider the difference between an impersonal corporation and an indivedual rich person. The person may have family attachments or friends in the local community, so there can be an emotional attachment.

Now just for the record, I support eliminating all corporate income taxes and instead just introduce co-determination legislation to ensure the money does in fact flow down.

It really depends on how much money is at stake. Few people would be motivated to make such a move for 5k or 10k per year, but then again, that amount of money begins to add up over the years and for those folks that are high income earners would be paying even more. At some point the pressure gets stronger to either find a legal shelter or take some form of action that will mitigate those taxes (incl moving if possible).

Your point was about the anticipation of the tax. Corporations knew about the possibility at least a month before the budget came into force. None of them have left.

Crunching the Ontario NDP's tax-the-rich numbers - The Globe and Mail


The tax on the rich adversity is really mountains out of molehills.

I scanned a few of the articles and was not able to determine when this tax takes effect... Do you know when it will take effect?

In the end, we'll have to wait and see, but I refer you again to the CPR example. It is a pretty straight-forward example of the logic that corps (and some high net worth individuals) will apply to the situation.

 

[Machjo]

It really depends on how much money is at stake. Few people would be motivated to make such a move for 5k or 10k per year, but then again, that amount of money begins to add up over the years and for those folks that are high income earners would be paying even more. At some point the pressure gets stronger to either find a legal shelter or take some form of action that will mitigate those taxes (incl moving if possible).




I scanned a few of the articles and was not able to determine when this tax takes effect... Do you know when it will take effect?

In the end, we'll have to wait and see, but I refer you again to the CPR example. It is a pretty straight-forward example of the logic that corps (and some high net worth individuals) will apply to the situation.

Of course. That is a personal decision and will be different for each person. There is no doubt that that there is an optimum tax beyond which revenue begins to fall. Different people disagree as to what that optimum tax is.

 

[captain morgan]

Of course. That is a personal decision and will be different for each person. There is no doubt that that there is an optimum tax beyond which revenue begins to fall. Different people disagree as to what that optimum tax is.

That's a high risk game that is being suggested. The wager here will potentially have a real impact on the Ontario economy.

 

[mentalfloss]

In the end, we'll have to wait and see, but I refer you again to the CPR example. It is a pretty straight-forward example of the logic that corps (and some high net worth individuals) will apply to the situation.

It's just one example, whereas there has been no moves in anticipation of this tax as you claimed.

 

[captain morgan]

It's just one example, whereas there has been no moves in anticipation of this tax as you claimed.

When does the tax take effect? As you get closer to the execution date, you will observe any moves that are to occur (if any).

That example is highly significant. If you want another, consider the Stelmach gvt and the BS they threatened with the oil/gas royalty structure. The results were almost immediate with capital being rerouted to BC and Sask over night... Stelmach reversed his decision a couple of months later, but once the capital was spent outside of AB, it stays there. You can also look to BC and how Cominco reacted to the ever increasing demands of the province... Hint: They are doing a ton of work in South America and in turn employing tens of thousands of locals and supporting the tax base down there.

Understand that it makes no difference to me in any way, shape or form what the Ontario gvt does. The only reason that I am saying what I am saying is because I have seen the ill effects of what poorly considered policy will do.

 

[mentalfloss]

When does the tax take effect? As you get closer to the execution date, you will observe any moves that are to occur (if any).

I doubt it.

The increase isn't nearly high enough to influence anyone to move.

 

[Machjo]

That's a high risk game that is being suggested. The wager here will potentially have a real impact on the Ontario economy.

Most economists suggest we're still well beyond the optimum tax rate.

 

[mentalfloss]

Most economists suggest we're still well beyond the optimum tax rate.

You mean like the one I quoted in my post?

Cap doesn't need economists to tell him right from wrong.

 

[Machjo]

Most economists suggest we're still well beyond the optimum tax rate.

Sorry, I should have said "below", not "beyond".

 

[captain morgan]

Most economists suggest we're still well beyond the optimum tax rate.

The same economists that made that identical recommendation to the UK gvt on a few occasion?

You will recall that the results were not what the 'economists' predicted and on all occasions, the tax was repealed.

You mean like the one I quoted in my post?

Cap doesn't need economists to tell him right from wrong.

Still won't answer the question regarding when the tax takes effect, eh?

Suit yourself MF, I strongly suspect that incorporating this policy will have a positive effect on AB - just like CP Rail.

 

[mentalfloss]

Still won't answer the question regarding when the tax takes effect, eh?

You made the claim that businesses would move in anticipation of the tax, not at the point when the tax would take effect.

I disagree, the statements I am making are not as speculative as you may think.. Companies like Haliburton and Invesco (?) moved from the USA based on their belief that the tax rates would be hiked on them.

 

[Machjo]

Another point to make has to do with tax loopholes. A tax increase might lead to more rich people to invest more in their business so as to avoid the tax, thus leading to more business investment.

 

[captain morgan]

You made the claim that businesses would move in anticipation of the tax, not at the point when the tax would take effect.

I gave an example of that event... Clearly you know that your position is unproven and speculative at best, why else would you dodge the questions and rely on cherry picking elements of the macro discussion?

But like I said, this tax represents only upside for other jurisdictions in Canada and the USA... Or have you forgotten about Caterpillar?

Anyways, you keep on fighting the good fight on this. Time will tell what the impacts may or may not be.

Another point to make has to do with tax loopholes. A tax increase might lead to more rich people to invest more in their business so as to avoid the tax, thus leading to more business investment.

Got an example?

On that note, the investment capital has already (by in large) been taxed - all they'd be doing is piling more cash into a system that will cost them more in the long run.

Like I mentioned to MF, Caterpillar is the most recent causality in Ontario (albeit for different reasons), but don't fool yourself here, the identical logic used by CAT will be considered by other entities.

 

[gore0bsessed]

Here's the 411 for you Einstein - social services, healthcare, etc ALL cost money, a lot of money in fact... If you can't imagine what the consequences are of killing the goose that lays the golden egg, then all your stating is that you want Cadillac service at a Yugo price and that it is morally correct to expect such.

The world doesn't work that way and all of the unicorns and rainbows posted on your desktop won't change that reality.

Yet you think capitalism is superior to anything else. When you start believing in those immoral insinuations that profit and wealth trump actual living standards and human health you've been successfully indoctrinated by a severely sick society.
You also insinuate wealthy people's lives are more important then people with less money. This is a terribly immoral thought and also incredibly stupid when you realize a person's wealth has been determined mostly if not all by mere luck.

 

[Machjo]

Capitalism has its strenghts, just as socialism does. But the moment we expect people to adapt to ideology rather than the other way around is when ideological prejudices become obvious.

 

[captain morgan]

Yet you think capitalism is superior to anything else. When you start believing in those immoral insinuations that profit and wealth trump actual living standards and human health you've been successfully indoctrinated by a severely sick society.

Perhaps you can look into the living standards in North Korea or the former USSR. They were not exactly up to par now, were they?

There is a reason that Iron Curtain countries failed and they ALL adopted some form of capitalism in the end... Don't you think that's a little strange that these utopias all turned their backs on their former systems and adopted the immoral capitalist system?

You also insinuate wealthy people's lives are more important then people with less money. This is a terribly immoral thought and also incredibly stupid when you realize a person's wealth has been determined mostly if not all by mere luck.

No... YOU are saying that there is a difference in the value of lives based on a socio-economic scale; not me.

.. And make no mistake, while luck plays a part in everyone's destiny, hard work and smarts have much more to do with it than anything else.

All you're doing in making that statement is providing an excuse, that's it.

 

[mentalfloss]

I gave an example of that event... Clearly you know that your position is unproven and speculative at best, why else would you dodge the questions and rely cheery picking elements of the macro discussion?

My position is simply that there is no evidence to show that raising taxes on the rich guarantees people will relocate. It obviously depends on how much taxes are raised and whether that poses a threat to those individuals or their businesses.

 

[MHz]

Yet you think capitalism is superior to anything else. When you start believing in those immoral insinuations that profit and wealth trump actual living standards and human health you've been successfully indoctrinated by a severely sick society.
You also insinuate wealthy people's lives are more important then people with less money. This is a terribly immoral thought and also incredibly stupid when you realize a person's wealth has been determined mostly if not all by mere luck.

We pay $61B a year in interest fees (just on the national debt)that should be going to those social programs you are bitching and whining about. Perhaps 'we' should pull all the funds sunk int all the bailouts in the last few years, the rich would be a lot poorer than the poor are right now.

My position is simply that there is no evidence to show that raising taxes on the rich guarantees people will relocate. It obviously depends on how much taxes are raised and whether that poses a threat to those individuals or their businesses.

Letting them skip certainly hasn't worked out and that is a proven fact unless you see endless bailouts by the taxpayer to the banks is the model of success that we should have been striving for. You usually get fired for doing such a ****ty job.