Stephen Harper vows free vote on gay marriage

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I think not

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Harper vows free vote on gay marriage

OTTAWA (CP) - Conservative Leader Stephen Harper launched his election campaign Tuesday by steering it straight into the electoral turbulence of gay marriage.

With the starting gun kicking off the eight-week race still echoing in the air, Harper went out of his way to reopen a politically noxious debate, pledging to restore the traditional definition of marriage - provided Parliament supports the idea in a free vote.

"It will be a genuine free vote when I'm prime minister," Harper said.

"I will not whip our cabinet," he added, referring to the process by which Paul Martin's ministers were forced last summer to support a bill that legalized gay weddings.

Most legal experts agree same-sex marriage is a genie Harper will be hard-pressed to put back in the bottle. He would have to circumvent court judgments allowing gay weddings, as well as a reference opinion from the Supreme Court of Canada.

Harper conceded he would consider the matter closed if MPs don't support introducing new legislation to once again define marriage as the sole domain of one man and one woman.

Either way, he promised to preserve more than 3,000 gay marriages already performed across Canada, though he wouldn't say exactly how.

"That's the commitment we've made and it hasn't changed," Harper said in the lobby outside the House of Commons.

He made a point of raising the thorny issue even after his handlers had cut off questions from reporters, though he later said he was addressing an earlier question he felt obliged to answer.

He also dodged questions about constitutional scholars who say it would be impossible to restore the traditional definition of marriage, and about whether he would use the notwithstanding clause to do it.

Harper has said he believes same-sex couples should be recognized through civil unions that set out economic rights but don't infringe on traditional marriage.

In the 2004 election, the Tory stance against gay weddings cost the party crucial support in urban Ontario and among younger voters.

It also helped the Liberals portray Harper as a kind of far-right bogey man who would undercut the Charter of Rights and Freedoms. They wasted no time Tuesday resurrecting that strategy.

"It's this kind of thing that led me to join the Liberal party, that drove me from the Conservative party," said MP Belinda Stronach. "I think it's just plain wrong."

Stronach's dramatic defection to the governing party in May helped the Liberals hold on to power.

"How can one class of citizen be more equal than another? Honestly, I think voters have moved past this issue. Parliament already dealt with that."

Gay activists were dismayed by Harper's remarks.

"What does that say about our confidence in the government, that when a law is passed we can rely on it?" said Gilles Marchildon, executive director of EGALE Canada.

"Instead of creating conditions that bring peace, order and good government, it's chaos, confusion and uncertainty."

Heather MacIvor, a political scientist at the University of Windsor, recently published the book Canadian Politics and Government in the Charter Era.

She leads a seminar class on the Supreme Court reference opinion that dealt with same-sex unions. The high court was clear that marriage, under the Constitution, now includes gay couples, she said.

"You can't use the notwithstanding clause to override the division of powers in the 1867 Constitution," MacIvor said.

Later in the day, Harper returned to themes he outlined after toppling the government Monday. He described the Liberals as friends of "powerful, privileged insiders" and the architects of a "culture of entitlement" a Conservative government would eliminate.

"When our national government is weak and under a cloud, it hurts our country," Harper told cheering supporters during a visit to the campaign headquarters of former Ontario cabinet minister John Baird.

"When they stole your money, they not only broke your trust, they also failed to deliver on your priorities."

A Conservative government would cut taxes, clean up government corruption and give parents and patients alike "choice" in both child care and health care, he added.

In tackling same-sex marriage head-on, Harper has raised an issue that isn't settled for everyone.

Former Liberal MP Pat O'Brien has teamed with ex-Tory MP Grant Hill to form a group called Defend Marriage Canada. They plan to raise money, publish letters and lobby voters during the campaign to elect candidates who oppose gay marriage.

O'Brien quit the Liberals over the issue to sit as an independent MP and is not running for re-election.

He says same-sex weddings are not accepted in the minds of "millions of Canadians."

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peapod

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Re: Harper vows free vote on gay marriage

He can do whatever he wants, the courts will strike it down, refer to the charter of rights if you cannot understand this.
 

Jo Canadian

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Mar 15, 2005
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Re: Harper vows free vote on gay marriage

Yeah, he sure jumped on that topic awful quick. I guess economically advancing the country is on his second list. He must be going by the philosophy that if it helped Bush win, it may help him win.
 

I think not

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Re: Harper vows free vote on gay marriage

peapod said:
He can do whatever he wants, the courts will strike it down, refer to the charter of rights if you cannot understand this.

He can invoke the "notwithstanding clause". Or am I wrong?
 

Jay

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Jan 7, 2005
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RE: Harper vows free vote on gay marriage

He could, but he wouldn't do it.
 

peapod

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Re: Harper vows free vote on gay marriage

Ya keep flogging your dead horses, its exactly what the conservatives are about. Harper can do whatever he likes, the courts will strike it down, just like they have done in the past.
 

I think not

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Re: Harper vows free vote on gay marriage

peapod said:
Ya keep flogging your dead horses, its exactly what the conservatives are about. Harper can do whatever he likes, the courts will strike it down, just like they have done in the past.

:?

Which part of the "notwithstanding clause" didn't you understand Peapod?

"Since the court ruled the authority over same-sex marriage falls to the federal government, it is only the federal government who can invoke the notwithstanding clause to maintain the traditional definition of marriage,"

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peapod

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Re: Harper vows free vote on gay marriage

No kidding canucklehead :roll: :roll: But in a way its a good thing :p Its shows what harper and his ilk are really about, same old same old. Course this is just thinks way of trying to stop us from talking about his governments invasion and murder of civilians in the middle east....more than a tad obvious :wink:
 

I think not

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Re: Harper vows free vote on gay marriage

peapod said:
No kidding canucklehead :roll: :roll: But in a way its a good thing :p Its shows what harper and his ilk are really about, same old same old. Course this is just thinks way of trying to stop us from talking about his governments invasion and murder of civilians in the middle east....more than a tad obvious :wink:

Oh sorry, I thought Canadians would be interested how someone in power can invoke the "notwithstanding clause" and reverse rights obtained. Seems to me you're avoiding the topic :roll:
 

peapod

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Re: Harper vows free vote on gay marriage

I am not interested, as are most canadians in flogging the same dead horse. In case you are unaware, canadians are more concerned about health care than harper and his harperites homo phobia same old same old.
 

I think not

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Re: Harper vows free vote on gay marriage

peapod said:
I am not interested, as are most canadians in flogging the same dead horse. In case you are unaware, canadians are more concerned about health care than harper and his harperites homo phobia same old same old.

Precisely why I brought this topic up. He could invoke the "notwithstanding clause" and redefine marriage, essentially reversing rights obtained. Your remark that the courts will strike it down, doesn't apply here. They can't.
 

peapod

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Re: Harper vows free vote on gay marriage

Actually its perfect and we should thank you for posting that think. Its shows clearly that harper and his ilk of harperites have their same old agenda...homophobia. Aparently it does not matter to them that canadains are more concerned about health care than flogging the same dead horse. Clearly it shows the agenda, which is the same old same old. :roll:
 

I think not

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Re: Harper vows free vote on gay marriage

peapod said:
Actually its perfect and we should thank you for posting that think. Its shows clearly that harper and his ilk of harperites have their same old agenda...homophobia. Aparently it does not matter to them that canadains are more concerned about health care than flogging the same dead horse. Clearly it shows the agenda, which is the same old same old. :roll:

You finally got it.
 

PoisonPete2

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Apr 9, 2005
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RE: Harper vows free vote on gay marriage

it appears Harper is measuring the movements in American politics rather than the Canadian social scene. Leave your homophobia at the border there Harpy. And your war too. And your HMOs.
 

Jay

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Jan 7, 2005
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RE: Harper vows free vote on gay marriage

ITN, there is no sense in discussing this issue with certain people, they just call you names. If you don't agree with there position your a this and a that. Screw em'.
 

peapod

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Re: Harper vows free vote on gay marriage

Yes I did :p and so will most canadians. I hope harper and his harperites continue on their same path, which is the same beaten path they has kept them from forming a government in this country.

Sidenote: Funny innt??? We are suppose to answer your questions, yet you have nothing to say about your government using chemical weapons on human beings in Iraq. The murder of civilians in your goverments invasion if far more important than two people marrying each other, regardless of their gender.

You better believe its a great thing that harper makes this part of his platform, it once again shows the hidden agenda of this group.
 

I think not

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Re: Harper vows free vote on gay marriage

I was merely trying to point out that the courts have no say after an elected official has invoked the "notwithstanding clause". I posted this topic to show you that he is looming over this.

Whether or not he will do it wasn't my point, but the fact the "notwithstanding clause" exists, leaves any government open to reverse rights that have been obtained by invoking it. But if you guys don't care, why the hell should I?
 

peapod

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Re: Harper vows free vote on gay marriage

And I repeat to you. This is great news, I knew they would not be able to hide their true agenda. Once again harper has shown that he is completely out of touch with what concerns canadians.
 
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