Slaves in Canada.
- Thread starter Durgan
- Start date
I think the government's logic here is screwed. Why would you take money from people for a program that isn't set up for them? I could understand if EI money was part of the general coffers of the government, but it isn't.
The government does pay people in the East of Canada, EI, to keep seasonal workers available for these sorts of industries....why not these other workers?
But I don't want these workers drawing off of EI, so we shouldn't be taxing them for it.
The Canadian government is very greedy with its EI money.
The government does pay people in the East of Canada, EI, to keep seasonal workers available for these sorts of industries....why not these other workers?
But I don't want these workers drawing off of EI, so we shouldn't be taxing them for it.
The Canadian government is very greedy with its EI money.
If they are made to pay into EI, then they should be able to collect it. If they aren't allowed to collect, they shouldn't have to pay in.
I guess you guys didn't realize a lot of people aren't allowed to collect EI either eh? My friend lost his well paying job while in university and was then told he couldn't collect EI because his class schedule meant he wasn't available for work. Never mind the fact that he had always worked 30-40 hours a week as a student. I'll never get the Canada pension plan, but I still had to pay into it when I worked, same goes with social security here in the US. As a guest worker here, I can't collect welfare, even though I pay taxes to support it. If I lose my job, my visa is revoked (I'd wind up back in some Canadian hospital). No country gives non-citizens all the same perks as citizens.
I'm usually all for workers having rights to OT and stuff like that, but in some cases these requirements only hurt the employee. My friends back in Ontario are having a bitch of a time with new requirements that they can't work more than 4 shifts in a week because we were so used to being able to switch our shifts around as we pleased. Now the government has decided it knows better, so the employer can't let people work 5 shifts in one week without paying overtime. It isn't helping the workers.
I'm usually all for workers having rights to OT and stuff like that, but in some cases these requirements only hurt the employee. My friends back in Ontario are having a bitch of a time with new requirements that they can't work more than 4 shifts in a week because we were so used to being able to switch our shifts around as we pleased. Now the government has decided it knows better, so the employer can't let people work 5 shifts in one week without paying overtime. It isn't helping the workers.
I would venture a guess,
that they are being paid several times what they would get back in Mexico for the same work. Apparently this is work that Canadians don't want. As Rev said, they are free do leave anytime they want so they are not slaves. I think it is unfair to make them pay unemployment insurance when they can't collect benifits. I can see why we don't want to pay benifits. From what I've read, these workers consider this farm work an opportunity to put a bit of money towards buying a home or a car or whatever. The hours are long but the upside is that they make more money. Are we making a problem where there is none?
that they are being paid several times what they would get back in Mexico for the same work. Apparently this is work that Canadians don't want. As Rev said, they are free do leave anytime they want so they are not slaves. I think it is unfair to make them pay unemployment insurance when they can't collect benifits. I can see why we don't want to pay benifits. From what I've read, these workers consider this farm work an opportunity to put a bit of money towards buying a home or a car or whatever. The hours are long but the upside is that they make more money. Are we making a problem where there is none?
I don't think so. There have been a few cases of foreign workers coming forward because they have been abused in various ways. The way the visas and our laws work, their is a very high likelihood that most of those who have been abused have not come forth.
I'm not too worried about the wages as long as they make at least minimum wage, but they do deserve to be treated as well as our own workers.
The EI thing is silly. I don't pay in because I can't collect...one of the realities of self-employment. Why should they pay in if they can't collect?
That isn't the same as not being able to collect because they don't meet the requirements. I agree those requirements are too strict, especially for part time workers, but that's a whole other issue.
Just so your aware.....it's the employer who deducts money of their wages...not the gov't. The employer should not be deducting the money. The gov't has no idea which employees are paying into their fund.....
The article didn't say whether their wages were $7.70cad or $7.70 american or $7.70 jamaican....anybody know?
Rev, it seems to me the UIC thing came about from talks with Canadian unions when this importing of farm workers first talked about. I think it was agreed that if these "foreign" workers wanted to come to Canada, they should pay into UIC. These conditions are made clear up front and nobody is forcing them to come. If these people are being beaten or physically abused, it is a matter for the police and the courts. Any kind of physical abuse is unacceptable.. I think it would be a mistake to allow UIC benifits but they shouldn't be paying premiums either.
The article didn't say whether their wages were $7.70cad or $7.70 american or $7.70 jamaican....anybody know?
Are you serious? Just in case you are it is Canadian dollars.
Durgan.
Are you serious? Just in case you are it is Canadian dollars.
Durgan.
It isn't necessarily physical abuse, although there have been cases of that. There are also unsafe working conditions, lack of breaks, people being expected to work for less than minimum wage, wages being held back, and a host of other concerns.
Keep in mind that farm workers are not the only ones that come in on these visas. Farm workers actually have an advantage because they to come in and work in groups. Others, and this ranges from construction workers to strippers and back to service workers, come in with limited contacts, don't know the rules and don't know who to go to.
As the R.Blair point out the "misery" exists for others than Agriculture Workers. Agrulcture workers are the larger defined group.
http://luvvinct.notlong.com
They are packed into substandard houses like sardines, forced to work gruelling 12-15 hour days, 7 days a week without overtime or holiday pay, and denied necessary breaks. They are exposed to dangerous chemicals/pesticides with no safety equipment/protection or training. They are provided with inadequate health attention and services. They are excluded from basic human rights legislation such as Health and Safety Legislation and most aspects of the Employment Standards Act.
Quote.
If you ever really want to change something in Canada, it's gotta be by some kind of crisis. The media will pick up on this story likely and we may hear about this on CBC. But unless that happens, there is never any change, because whatever is swept under the rug usually just stays the same. Unquote http://luvvinct.notlong.com
Durgan.
http://luvvinct.notlong.com
They are packed into substandard houses like sardines, forced to work gruelling 12-15 hour days, 7 days a week without overtime or holiday pay, and denied necessary breaks. They are exposed to dangerous chemicals/pesticides with no safety equipment/protection or training. They are provided with inadequate health attention and services. They are excluded from basic human rights legislation such as Health and Safety Legislation and most aspects of the Employment Standards Act.
Quote.
If you ever really want to change something in Canada, it's gotta be by some kind of crisis. The media will pick up on this story likely and we may hear about this on CBC. But unless that happens, there is never any change, because whatever is swept under the rug usually just stays the same. Unquote http://luvvinct.notlong.com
Durgan.
have you ever heard of cherry picking.........?
most cherry are produce in B-C and ontario, okanagan valley and niagara reapectively.
i've picked cherries for my last three summer.
most of the worker going to b.c. are canadian, mostly quebecer.
most of the workers going to ontario, are foreigner form central and south america.
cherry picking use to be a well paid job, you could, and still can do depending of where you are working this is not in ontario, you could earn,if you are a little bit experienced, around 125$ and 225$ a day............you may think that you have to work a lot for that, but no
you can't pick cherry after 12 o'clock, cause the cherry are getting warm and soft, and then they bruise easily. so for a day of work wich start at 5 or 6 in the morning and ends at 11 or 12 wich is anywhere between 5 or 7 hours for your days.....taking 125-225$/day : 18- 45$/hour......
this is if you found a good place to work
what is a good place to work???
what i call a good place is a place where the trees are in good shape, well maintain, the ground is not like a war battlefield, the cherries are not all rotten, the trees are prunes every well for efficiency, and the wage are reasonnable, ect........ who gonna have a orchard like that: a well dedicated farmer!!!! wich are more and more rare............
it is not in ontario cause they all hire mexicain, so the wage are going down, it could be in b.c.
i'm not saying that the orchard in ontario are not beautiful and well suit for the picking, some are, some are not......
the reason b.c. is the place where you can earn good money is only cause the wage are still in average good.
if yo pick cherry in b.c, you ganna notice fast enough that pickers there are moving from one place to the other to follow the different season from a valley to another....in b.c. you can pick cherry in the okanagan valley and in the kotenays, the season inside the valley vary roughly of a month north to south, and vary again of a month between valleys west to east.
okanagan is really repute all accross canada for fruit picking, so there is a lot of people going there to pick, to wage are going down: to much labor force, as well as the work condition are poorer and poorer year after year.
kotenay is kind of a well keep secret inside the pickers circle, if you're a first timer you barely know about it....
in the kotenay the wage are way better as well as the working condition.
in the okanagan, you gonna work and pich your tent on an orchard, no access to fresh water, no toilet, no shower, you work on 12-16 feet wooden ladder fixed with ducktapeon an hilly orchard with water to drink in huge unmaintain trees,rotten cherries, really bad wages......
kotenay, the last place i've work last on an amazing ochard, pitch on a camping organized by the owner with, internet access, kitchennette with fridge, stove, toaster, coffe maker, cd player, shower, toilet, fresh hot-cold water, laundry machine, fire pit, some bicycle to share, on work you get breakfast every second day(egg sandwich, juice coffe, toast, muffin, cookies,bacon, milk,....)
lunch every third days ( mostly pizza), they bring you water and handmade cookies in your ladder while you work........ect.....
and this is quite the same(maybe a little less) all around the kotenay....with exeption....as usual.
my point is most of the time the problem is on the side of the farmer........some treat you like shit so nobody want to work for you so you end uo hiring foreigners, or you understand that without your pickers your not gonna go anywhere so youtreat them well........most of the time this reflect on the land too.....
so why do farmers are different in okanagan compare to kotenay??????????????
the awnser is simple.........who gonna hire foreigners? : foreigners
here we go!!!!!finally
the farmers in kotenay are 85-95% canadian........okanagan 80-95% are middle east people: indian pakistaneese, turk, libaneese...... they don't care about the country and his economy, the people living here, the canadian land, and more.................
they hire you under the table so they can claim i.e. during winter for all his family living there or elsewhere in canada ( this is extremely common to see, you would not believe it), they treat you like shit (could i say here slave?!!) working and living condition like in the third world, they don't speak english, they don't want to pay you your due.......ect....
you see where is the problem
with canadian owner you not gonna have these problem, that's where you want to go in the okanagan or else you go the the kotenay.....
people is going to say that we need to hire cheap labor on the fields to get the farm worth it..........do you know that cherries from canada are exported to japan at a price of 30-50$/pound!!!!
and that a perfect cherry, perfect roundness and good weigh are sold 20-100$ piece to japan!!!!!!! don't tell me that these midlle east people can't make any money....
but in fact the problem is not really from these middle east people they are free of coming here to canada and make theur money like they want, the problem is here in our house we north american are generally to lazy to own a farm and make it worth it so we sell them to foreigners.... or to lazy to go work on a farm.... so we hire foreigner........same kind of reason why our clothing, appliance, car, almost every thing in fact are made oversee by unseeing kids slave. this is probably why our economy is mostly based on services, cause we are to lazy to work for real so we go sit in a call center, sit in our cadillac, sit in our lazyboy(c), and wait in front of our microwave watching the watch tapping with our foot waiting for the food to be ready
this is the reality we are stupidly lazy and dumb, greedy, and volontary closed to our little capitalism world....... :lol: :bootyshake:
the worst invention ever is probably the push-button
most cherry are produce in B-C and ontario, okanagan valley and niagara reapectively.
i've picked cherries for my last three summer.
most of the worker going to b.c. are canadian, mostly quebecer.
most of the workers going to ontario, are foreigner form central and south america.
cherry picking use to be a well paid job, you could, and still can do depending of where you are working this is not in ontario, you could earn,if you are a little bit experienced, around 125$ and 225$ a day............you may think that you have to work a lot for that, but no
you can't pick cherry after 12 o'clock, cause the cherry are getting warm and soft, and then they bruise easily. so for a day of work wich start at 5 or 6 in the morning and ends at 11 or 12 wich is anywhere between 5 or 7 hours for your days.....taking 125-225$/day : 18- 45$/hour......
this is if you found a good place to work
what is a good place to work???
what i call a good place is a place where the trees are in good shape, well maintain, the ground is not like a war battlefield, the cherries are not all rotten, the trees are prunes every well for efficiency, and the wage are reasonnable, ect........ who gonna have a orchard like that: a well dedicated farmer!!!! wich are more and more rare............
it is not in ontario cause they all hire mexicain, so the wage are going down, it could be in b.c.
i'm not saying that the orchard in ontario are not beautiful and well suit for the picking, some are, some are not......
the reason b.c. is the place where you can earn good money is only cause the wage are still in average good.
if yo pick cherry in b.c, you ganna notice fast enough that pickers there are moving from one place to the other to follow the different season from a valley to another....in b.c. you can pick cherry in the okanagan valley and in the kotenays, the season inside the valley vary roughly of a month north to south, and vary again of a month between valleys west to east.
okanagan is really repute all accross canada for fruit picking, so there is a lot of people going there to pick, to wage are going down: to much labor force, as well as the work condition are poorer and poorer year after year.
kotenay is kind of a well keep secret inside the pickers circle, if you're a first timer you barely know about it....
in the kotenay the wage are way better as well as the working condition.
in the okanagan, you gonna work and pich your tent on an orchard, no access to fresh water, no toilet, no shower, you work on 12-16 feet wooden ladder fixed with ducktapeon an hilly orchard with water to drink in huge unmaintain trees,rotten cherries, really bad wages......
kotenay, the last place i've work last on an amazing ochard, pitch on a camping organized by the owner with, internet access, kitchennette with fridge, stove, toaster, coffe maker, cd player, shower, toilet, fresh hot-cold water, laundry machine, fire pit, some bicycle to share, on work you get breakfast every second day(egg sandwich, juice coffe, toast, muffin, cookies,bacon, milk,....)
lunch every third days ( mostly pizza), they bring you water and handmade cookies in your ladder while you work........ect.....
and this is quite the same(maybe a little less) all around the kotenay....with exeption....as usual.
my point is most of the time the problem is on the side of the farmer........some treat you like shit so nobody want to work for you so you end uo hiring foreigners, or you understand that without your pickers your not gonna go anywhere so youtreat them well........most of the time this reflect on the land too.....
so why do farmers are different in okanagan compare to kotenay??????????????
the awnser is simple.........who gonna hire foreigners? : foreigners
here we go!!!!!finally
the farmers in kotenay are 85-95% canadian........okanagan 80-95% are middle east people: indian pakistaneese, turk, libaneese...... they don't care about the country and his economy, the people living here, the canadian land, and more.................
they hire you under the table so they can claim i.e. during winter for all his family living there or elsewhere in canada ( this is extremely common to see, you would not believe it), they treat you like shit (could i say here slave?!!) working and living condition like in the third world, they don't speak english, they don't want to pay you your due.......ect....
you see where is the problem
with canadian owner you not gonna have these problem, that's where you want to go in the okanagan or else you go the the kotenay.....
people is going to say that we need to hire cheap labor on the fields to get the farm worth it..........do you know that cherries from canada are exported to japan at a price of 30-50$/pound!!!!
and that a perfect cherry, perfect roundness and good weigh are sold 20-100$ piece to japan!!!!!!! don't tell me that these midlle east people can't make any money....
but in fact the problem is not really from these middle east people they are free of coming here to canada and make theur money like they want, the problem is here in our house we north american are generally to lazy to own a farm and make it worth it so we sell them to foreigners.... or to lazy to go work on a farm.... so we hire foreigner........same kind of reason why our clothing, appliance, car, almost every thing in fact are made oversee by unseeing kids slave. this is probably why our economy is mostly based on services, cause we are to lazy to work for real so we go sit in a call center, sit in our cadillac, sit in our lazyboy(c), and wait in front of our microwave watching the watch tapping with our foot waiting for the food to be ready
this is the reality we are stupidly lazy and dumb, greedy, and volontary closed to our little capitalism world....... :lol: :bootyshake:
the worst invention ever is probably the push-button
You behave yourself while your here lena. That way you don't have to worry about about peapod bugging you. Translation: Don't even think about starting something with the rev. :wink: Have a nice evening.