Should Harper’s cabinet be more diverse.

[the caracal kid]

RE: Should Harper’s cabin

All a matter of experience, isn't it?

People can rationalize just about anything, and often do. I don't know anybody that actually likes Calgary or the grasslands, but they are putting up with it for financial reasons. My friends in Bragg Creek and Canmore like life there, but life there is different from places like "browntown".

 

[DasFX]

What has Alberta's culture got to do with Harper's cabinent anyhow?

 

[the caracal kid]

RE: Should Harper’s cabin

Well, we went off on this tangent, but the Cons are an albertan party at its core, so perhaps the cabinet reflects alberta?

 

[Jay]

Calgary Stampede is culture BTW.

 

[the caracal kid]

RE: Should Harper’s cabin

So is halloween, so you got me there. A few days of the year they uncrate their costumes and pretend to be from the american wild west. The do halloween too...

So perhaps it is just indicitive of a lacking on a broader scale then.

Now back to harper's cabinet.

 

[DasFX]

Re: RE: Should Harper’s cabin

Well, we went off on this tangent, but the Cons are an albertan party at its core, so perhaps the cabinet reflects alberta?

What, with 4 cabinet ministers? (+ the PM)

I could care less if these guys like to go hear jazz after work, or enjoying a nice bottle of wine before they head to the opera. From what you describe, Alberta has a culture of working and that the only thing I want the government to do.

 

[zoofer]

I don't know the ratio but some busybody should check if our prison population reflects the PC numbers.

If there are insufficient Whites I suggest the percentage of visable minorities be released immediately to correct the problem.
Either that or more Whites be pressed into jail. Maybe a combination of the two?

 

[Doryman]

I don't know the ratio but some busybody should check if our prison population reflects the PC numbers.

If there are insufficient Whites I suggest the percentage of visable minorities be released immediately to correct the problem.
Either that or more Whites be pressed into jail. Maybe a combination of the two?

ha oooo you'll get in trouble for that one, zoofer.


Harpers cabinet has no need of being diverse, he's included representatives of all the areas of Canada. Race is not an important issue, economics and regional representation are. Personally I find the Leftists constant hang-up on race to be a little worrisome. The countrys government should not be organized so that it contains the maximum amount of colours, it should be organized so that is effective and fair.

 

[sanch]

Multiculturalism is based on a pluralist model where different groups retain parts of their ethnic identity even as they participate in the Canadian mainstream. This contrasts with the assimilation or melting pot model the US uses. Mexico uses a mestizo or melting pot approach while most European countries use a pluralist system like Canada. These are ideals though and the reality is very different.

If you aren't in the mainstream, then you are an outlier. Why would we want to adopt or promote representation for these outlier groups. So if there is an islamic extremist group in Canada, we should give them seats in parliament to hear about their views so they won't blow up the TTC?

If you read my first paragraph I said catering to extremism and letting them intimidate the system is not productive.

The Saudis, Kuwaitis and Emirs of the gulf states have invested heavily in extreme and militant Islam. Now they are upset that a series of cartoons has exposed this. It’s not Islam but the people behind it who have to be rebuked. This is the responsibility of the moderates and they should have been more vocal. But we can help them out by having them recognized as leaders in their communities.

If Harper decides to selectively govern to a small segment of the population then I give him six months if that. He has to govern Canada which is a bit more complex then dealing with a province where there is a lot of easy wealth.

 

[Jay]

"Race is not an important issue, economics and regional representation are."


I want to know when this changed to "race is now important". I want to know how these people get away with saying "we need more coloured folks"; it is racism pure and simple. Just like when the Police Force turns away perfectly good white men because they are looking for black women. It is the very opposite of what we are told we are supposed to be doing. If I started claiming there weren't enough white people on the local school board, what do you think would happen to me?

"Multiculturalism" is double speak. Ignore it.

 

[zoofer]

Multicult is not all it is cracked up to be. To pevent the Balkanization of Canada the melting pot route is the correct path to follow.

 

[the caracal kid]

Lets look at the melting pot:

When one makes a chili, all the ingredients get combined in the big pot and cooked together. The result is something where specific parts may retain some of their characteristics, they are also overcome with the stronger ingredients that have mixed throughout the pot. The strongest ingredients, usually the spices, are what become the predominant taste of the mixture.

Now consider how this is similar to the cultural melting pot. A specific strong culture overwhelms all other cultures brought into the society. The result is a "ified" version of the subculture, rather than a true retention of the subculture. Things become bland in the interest of homogeneity.

In contrast, a multicultural approach allows for the appreciation and expression of all cultures, and through citizens exposure to many cultures, greater tolorance is produced. It is like having a plate of food with several single parts that can be enjoyed individually or combined as the individual pleases. Multiculturalism embaces diversity and the interchanging of practices to produce unique stamps upon the umbrella culture.

Surrendering the diversity and richness of multiculturalism is only put forth by those that would prefer to see everybody embrace their own ethnic traditions. Do not miss how the "melting pot" is very much like the colonial and religious conversions of past that now most look upon with distain.

 

[sanch]

Re: RE: Should Harper’s cabinet be more diverse.

Multicult is not all it is cracked up to be. To pevent the Balkanization of Canada the melting pot route is the correct path to follow.

I would agree with this except I don’t think Canada will break up as a result of balkanization. There will be strife and lots of it though.

Multiculturalism was originally a quaint idea where groups would retain their language, foods and some customs. Now groups are bringing their entire social structure to Canada and investing a lot of energy in preserving it. There should be some system of rules as to what components of their past lives they should be allowed to retain. Polygamy and other forms of multiple marriage would be out. Their own system of laws as well would not be allowed. Eliminating these hassles would mean groups would have to work on assimilating and learning new rules.

I have never understood the logic that Muslims and Hindus should be allowed to live in Canada as they do in India where they are constantly fighting and killing each other Canada should be open and be a fresh start but it is a new way of life and not simply a replication of an old one.

 

[FiveParadox]

Cabinet Diversification

I was as nearly as displeased with the appointments to the Conservative Ministry as I had been with the former Liberal Ministry; both Cabinets, in my opinion, lack ethnic diversity to any appreciable extent.

As for those above, who would argue that Canada should adopt a "melting pot" approach to immigration and integration, I would whole-heartedly disagree. In my opinion, our multiculturalism is one of the defining characteristics of the broader Canadian culture, and we should be proud to retain it as such. The fact that the citizens of Canada can retain their own traditions, customs and religions, while moving toward a better future for the nation as a whole, is a wonderful idea — one that should be cherished and nurtured.

 

[sanch]

In contrast, a multicultural approach allows for the appreciation and expression of all cultures, and through citizens exposure to many cultures, greater tolorance is produced. It is like having a plate of food with several single parts that can be enjoyed individually or combined as the individual pleases. Multiculturalism embaces diversity and the interchanging of practices to produce unique stamps upon the umbrella culture.

This assumes that everything in every culture has some positive value. About 1O years ago in Toronto a group argued that bride stealing was an instrinsic component of their culture and it was racist to deprive them of this right. What do you do with something like this in a multicultural system? Do you allow it and say only with members of your group. What would feminists say about this custom?

 

[the caracal kid]

does it violate our charter of rights and freedoms?

so long as the cultural practice is not infringing on individual rights, then it is acceptable.

 

[FiveParadox]

In Relation to the Charter

Nicely put, the caracal kid.

If a certain practice would violate the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms, or some other provision of the Constitution Acts, then there should be cause for concern; however, in an overwhelming majority of cases, I would argue that such custom retention results in no such violations.

Where the Supreme Court of Canada would rule that such a custom would be in violation of rights and freedoms, only then should any such customs or practices be restricted as being inherently un-Canadian.

 

[sanch]

I would agree that the Charter could provide some reference to what is acceptable. But at the same time Canada's system of multiculturalism is currently not working in the way it is being described. For the most part visible minorities are confined to the larger cities where they live in what are referred to as "ethnic ghettos" where there is extremely high unemployment. Many of them function under pseudo political systems run in accordance to patriarchal and kinship dictates. As I noted by the pictures of the cabinet there is little interest in Canada to be more politically inclusive. If you go outside of Toronto and across Ontario the communities are homogenously white or aboriginal. If the urban multicultural mix was producing a culture with no dominant ingredient it has not diffused to the hinterland.

In light of all of the above can we afford to simply throw up our hands and say it is a charter issue? Is this the only solution?

 

[FiveParadox]

Every citizen of Canada has the right to move as they please between the Provinces and cities; to curb that right would not be an appropriate solution, nor would it be appropriate to impose some sort of melting pot strategy. Live, and let live.

I would argue that the mosaic strategy has worked so far.

 

[sanch]

Re: RE: Should Harper’s cabinet be more diverse.

Every citizen of Canada has the right to move as they please between the Provinces and cities; to curb that right would not be an appropriate solution, nor would it be appropriate to impose some sort of melting pot strategy. Live, and let live.

I would argue that the mosaic strategy has worked so far.

I see some strong points on Canada’s ethnic diversity but I would not attribute that to multiculturalism. There is a control group and that is the US which uses the melting pot model as does Mexico. From my experience I would say that the US has handled ethnic issues and diversity in general much better than Canada has. Look at New York City which has to be the most cosmopolitan center in the world. Look at Bush’s cabinet. Travel across the US and you will see that even in small communities there is a vibrant ethnic presence. And no one forced them to move there.

But alas it is easy to say something is working without providing any evidence for it. So you have no argument.