Should Canada Pay the Pensions of Bloc MPs if Quebec Leaves?

[Toro]

I'm having a discussion with two intelligent posters about whether or not Canada should pay the pensions of Bloc MPs if Quebec separates in another thread.

As a background, the government of Canada pays what can only be described as a ridiculously generous pension to MPs who have been in Parliament for at least 6 years. For every $1 that an MP contributes to the plan, Canadian taxpayers contribute, I believe, $6 to the MPs pension plan. The plan benefit rises for every year the MP is in Parliament. So, for example, if an MP has been in Parliament for 10 years, they get something like $40,000 a year (I cannot remember the exact figure, but it is high) for the rest of his or her life. So if you're elected as a 30 year old, and get turfed when you're 40, you'll get 40 grand a year until you die. As you may be aware, there are several young Bloc candidates this election so many of them would continue to live off the avails of the Canadian taxpayer for decades after separation.

I view this as a preposterous situation. I suggest that the MPs, whether they're vested or not (have been in Parliament for 6 years), should receive their contributions plus interest. Heck, I'm willing to give them back Quebec's portion of national tax receipts, which is roughly 20%, or $1.20, for every $1 contributed by the separatists to the pension plan. However, I believe Canadians should not pay the pensions of MPs who openly advocate separation after a province separates. If the Bloc MPs want their pension, let the newly independent Quebec make them whole, not the Canadian taxpayer.

The pension plan is a rip-off as it is. To continue to pay it to those who rip the country apart is, to me, bizarre. I think its akin to paying the guy who slept with then stole your wife when you don't have to continue paying him.

But that's my just my opinion. I would be very interested in knowing what you think so please vote in this poll.

 

[Finder]

Re: Should Canada Pay the Pensions of Bloc MPs if Quebec Lea

Since when have I been considered intelligent? :twisted:

Anyhow as I stated before... and as I shall state in short form because I don't have enough time to repost everything.

Canada's a Lawful Society, it is a job they are doing and it is an aspect of the job they do that in compasation they get there pensions.

Canada is a democracy which chose's to listen to the minorities (sometimes) but regional minorities do get a lot of representation in our system. Anyhow to remove this aspect of the job would be disenfrancising them and not treating them equally to other MP's. Anyone should see where I'm going with this, really you are adding oil to the fire if you were to treat them any differently then lets say a Liberal from Ontario or a conservative from Alberta.

Once you remove the democratic outlets of expression the only form you thus have are violent and we would rather talk with the people who have problems with Canada then killing each other.

I'm sure Paradox will spend ton's more time and actually check over his spelling unlike myself. So listen to him. lol

 

[MMMike]

RE: Should Canada Pay the Pensions of Bloc MPs if Quebec Lea

Hard to vote either yes or no... I think this is best left to negotiations should Quebec ever actually sepertate. That's part of the package... if we will allow the seperatists to sit in the HofC, we're on the hook for all that entails. And as of now, that includes pension benefits.

 

[Toro]

RE: Should Canada Pay the

For certain it should be part of negotiations. So should Churchill Falls, borders, etc.

 

[Finder]

Re: Should Canada Pay the Pensions of Bloc MPs if Quebec Lea

Well it's also a legal question. If they didn't get paid, they would bring it to the S-Court of Canada and by law they should vote in favour of Quebec sepritist MP's.

 

[Toro]

RE: Should Canada Pay the

That's possible, but can you not use the notwithstanding clause?

 

[FiveParadox]

Notwithstanding Clause • My Opinion

Since I don't want to re-type my arguments at the moment (I'm basically on my way out the door, lol):

The Government of Canada would be in breach of hundreds of thousands of contracts if it were to "refuse" to pay pensions as planned; the Government pays pensions to people whether or not they are residents in Canada (for example, a former employee of the Government living in the United States), so why should the Québecois be excluded, even if they separate?

Again, I must re-iterate that I do not think that we should set a double standard for ourselves. We need to fight separatism within the framework of the law — if they separate, then so be it, but we should think no less of them, and we should not abuse secondary institutions, such as that of pension, to get our point across.

As for the notwithstanding clause, to the best of my knowledge, pension plans and the like are legislative endeavours; I believe that the notwithstanding clause can apply only to the Constitution Acts, of which pension plans would not be dependent.

 

[earth_as_one]

RE: Should Canada Pay the Pensions of Bloc MPs if Quebec Lea

Bloc MPs represent the views of their constituents as much as any other MP.

What are you suggesting? That some MPs have less rights than others? Where does that stop? Should only MPs which agree with the elected government be the only ones allowed to sit in the house?

 

[#juan]

Re: Should Canada Pay the Pensions of Bloc MPs if Quebec Lea

It is a Federal Election.

The Blokheads run candidates in only one province. They are not a federal party. If they are not working for the betterment of the whole country, why in the world should the ROC pay pensions for these parasites? Their aim is to destroy the country. Sorry, politically correct does not work here. If it were left to me, I wouldn't let them even run in a federal election.

 

[Toro]

RE: Should Canada Pay the

No, what I'm saying is that Canadain taxpayers should not pay the pensions of those who have destroyed Canada. Let the constituents of the new country pay for their pensions.

 

[FiveParadox]

Payment of Pensions for the Bloc Québecois

If the Government chooses to deny the payment of pensions to members of the Bloc Québecois were an Act of Parliament to grant independence to Québec, then every Canadian pension plan should be revoked, using your logic.

The consent of at least one-half of the House of Commons would be required to remove Québec from Confederation; also, two-thirds of the Legislatures of the Provinces would have to grant their consent to the Act; also, the Governor General would need to grant consent to the Act, which would bring about an interesting showdown in the Parliament Assembled ("Queen, Senate, Commons"). If Québec becomes independent, then we ourselves are as much to blame as the Bloc Québecois.

 

[Jersay]

Re: Should Canada Pay the Pensions of Bloc MPs if Quebec Lea

If the Government chooses to deny the payment of pensions to members of the Bloc Québecois were an Act of Parliament to grant independence to Québec, then every Canadian pension plan should be revoked, using your logic.

The consent of at least one-half of the House of Commons would be required to remove Québec from Confederation; also, two-thirds of the Legislatures of the Provinces would have to grant their consent to the Act; also, the Governor General would need to grant consent to the Act, which would bring about an interesting showdown in the Parliament Assembled ("Queen, Senate, Commons"). If Québec becomes independent, then we ourselves are as much to blame as the Bloc Québecois.

Does this also apply to a referendum? Any part of what you just said, or only if Quebec Independence is decided within Parliment?

 

[Toro]

Re: Payment of Pensions for the Bloc Québecois

If the Government chooses to deny the payment of pensions to members of the Bloc Québecois were an Act of Parliament to grant independence to Québec, then every Canadian pension plan should be revoked, using your logic.

Why?

 

[FiveParadox]

Referenda

The Supreme Court of Canada has concluded that a referendum, in and of itself, cannot grant Québec independence. The independence would have to be granted by Parliament Assembled (the Governor General, the Senate and the House of Commons) and two-thirds of the Legislatures of the Provinces.

Therefore, if Québec were to become independent and "destroy Canada," then that would mean that a majority of our representatives, in the House of Commons and in our Provinces, were in favour of the separation.

 

[Jersay]

Re: Should Canada Pay the Pensions of Bloc MPs if Quebec Lea

The Supreme Court of Canada has concluded that a referendum, in and of itself, cannot grant Québec independence. The independence would have to be granted by Parliament Assembled (the Governor General, the Senate and the House of Commons) and two-thirds of the Legislatures of the Provinces.

Therefore, if Québec were to become independent and "destroy Canada," then that would mean that a majority of our representatives, in the House of Commons and in our Provinces, were in favour of the separation.

So in all likelyhood, when Hell freezes over.

Why don't the seperatist speak of this.

Oh, right, because it will ruin their dreams.

 

[Toro]

RE: Should Canada Pay the

What if Quebec declares unilateral declaration of independence?

Quebecers say that they'll decide, not English Canadians. A ruling by the Supreme Court of Canada is not a decision being made by Quebecers.

 

[FiveParadox]

Statements of the Bloc Québecois

The Bloc Québecois has been clear that they are not going to attempt to circumvent the legal framework of Canada in an effort to gain sovereignty for Québec.

 

[Jersay]

Re: Should Canada Pay the Pensions of Bloc MPs if Quebec Lea

The plan is if the Quebec radicals declare unilaterial independence, being apart of the army, the army goes in under the guise of protecting native, northern, military, and English-Allophone protection.

That was the plan in 1995, and I don't think the plan has changed.

 

[FiveParadox]

Sovereigntist Movement

The sovereigntist movement depends heavily on the notion that Canadians, as a whole, would support a majority of Quebeckers if they were to assert a wish, by a majority, to leave Confederation.

 

[Jersay]

Re: Should Canada Pay the Pensions of Bloc MPs if Quebec Lea

The Bloc can't cause a referendum only the PQ. So if the PQ, calls unilaterial independence the army goes in.