Shipwreck treasure returns to Spain from Florida

bill barilko

Senate Member
Mar 4, 2009
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Quite the story and a huge gain for Spanish museums

MADRID (AP) — Two military planes carrying 17 tons of silver and gold coins scooped up from a sunken Spanish warship landed in Madrid on Saturday, ending a more than 200-year odyssey that took the treasure from an ocean floor to Florida courtrooms.

The planes landed with the 594,000 coins and other artifacts retrieved after a five-year legal wrangle with a Florida-based salvage company, which had taken the haul to the U.S. in May 2007.

Deep sea explorers found the treasure in a shipwreck, believed to be Nuestra Senora de las Mercedes, off Portugal's Atlantic coast. British warships had sunk it during a 1804 gunbattle as it approached Spain as part of a fleet that had traveled from South America. The Mercedes was believed to have had 200 people aboard when it exploded and sank.
Once the treasure is offloaded from the planes it will be transported to an undisclosed location, state broadcaster RTVE said.

A detail of 30 officers from Spain's paramilitary Civil Guard force protected the coins once they landed. Civil Guard spokesman Miguel Tobias said everyone had breathed a sigh of relief at having the treasure back safely on Spanish soil.

"There were some storms on the way over," said Tobias, explaining why the two Hercules C-130 transports had landed at Torrejon de Ardoz military air base late.

The trove was transported to Spain despite a last-ditch claim to the treasure by Peru, the South American country from which the coins first set off more than two centuries ago.

"The coins were made from raw material obtained from mines that are currently on Peruvian soil and were struck at the Lima mint," according to a Peruvian foreign ministry statement from Friday.

In 1804, Peru was the local seat of the Spanish crown in South America and documents held in Spain's archives show that Mercedes was commissioned by King Charles IV to transport and protect a shipment of coins and bullion at the request of a noble family in Lima.

Peru said in the statement it would maintain its claim despite losing an appeal Friday and the rejection by U.S. courts of previous claims by descendants of the Peruvian merchants who had owned the shipment.

Odyssey Marine Exploration made international headlines when it discovered the wreck, estimating the trove to be worth as much as $500 million to collectors, making the haul one of the richest ever. The Tampa-based salvage outfit had used a remote-controlled submersible to explore the depths and bring items including cannon balls and other metal fragments to a surface ship, and argued that it was entitled to the treasure.

The Spanish government challenged Odyssey's ownership in U.S. District Court soon after the coins were flown back to Tampa, relying on documents from its naval archive which listed Mercedes as a naval warship.

International treaties generally hold that warships sunk in battle are protected from treasure seekers and the Spanish government successfully argued that it had never relinquished ownership of the ship or its contents.

A federal district court first ruled in 2009 that U.S. courts didn't have jurisdiction, and ordered the treasure returned.

Odyssey then lost every round in federal courts trying to hold on to the treasure, as the Spanish government painted them as modern-day pirates plundering the nation's cultural heritage.
 

damngrumpy

Executive Branch Member
Mar 16, 2005
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The bloody ship lay at the bottom of the ocean for two hundred years. Spain were not murdering thugs?
They came to Central and South America and murdered almost everyone they came across then they
enslaved entire civilizations forcing them to dig gold out of the ground for Spain's benefit.
This is nuts. Modern day treasure hunters should remove treasure and find sympathetic governments
and not report it in America at all.
Spain was a fascist imperial power that had no regard for anyone but themselves. Much like France,
Portugal, Britain, and even the Dutch and Germans. These powers have caused so much destruction it
will take centuries to straighten things out. Even the problems in the Middle East result from the actions
of these powers. I would think Spain would be too ashamed to admit they stole it from South America in
the first place.
 

bill barilko

Senate Member
Mar 4, 2009
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The bloody ship lay at the bottom of the ocean for two hundred years.

From the article as linked- "International treaties generally hold that warships sunk in battle are protected from treasure seekers and the Spanish government successfully argued that it had never relinquished ownership of the ship or its contents."

So the Briddish could have taken the treasure because they won the battle but a unique set of circumstances and some meticulous record keeping allowed the Spanish to claim it as still theirs-quite simple really.



I would think Spain would be too ashamed to admit they stole it from South America in
the first place.
I guess you've never met a Spaniard.
 

The Old Medic

Council Member
May 16, 2010
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Grumpy, you are just too Grumpy! International law is there for a reason.

And Bill, I have met, and known, a number of Spanish people over the years. I've been to Spain several times since my first trip there in 1963. Very nice people, generally.
 

gopher

Hall of Fame Member
Jun 26, 2005
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Peruvian government and merchants claim it as does the Spanish government and its merchants. But what about the Tawantinsuyu (Inka) people from whom it was stolen???
 

shadowshiv

Dark Overlord
May 29, 2007
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The Spanish government should have given some money to the Odyssey since it was due to their bringing the treasure up in the first place that they could even get their mitts on it. Otherwise, what's the point? The next time treasure is found that's from a warship, there's a good chance it will just get sold on the black market or the origin of the treasure fudged. If there is no monetary recourse for the one's actually doing the salvage, what other course would they follow? I imagine salvage expeditions are quite expensive after all.
 

bill barilko

Senate Member
Mar 4, 2009
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The Spanish government should have given some money to the Odyssey since it was due to their bringing the treasure up in the first place that they could even get their mitts on it. Otherwise, what's the point? The next time treasure is found that's from a warship, there's a good chance it will just get sold on the black market or the origin of the treasure fudged. If there is no monetary recourse for the one's actually doing the salvage, what other course would they follow? I imagine salvage expeditions are quite expensive after all.
If this isn't the most ignorant idiotic Bee Ess posted here in a month I don't know what is.

FYI-Odyssey could have approached the Spanish Govt with an offer but they did no such thing-they tried to grab it all completely ignoring international maritime law and so they lost everything.

The idea that someone could somehow just dump half a billion plus in silver coins on the black market is another howler- everyone knows what Odyssey does and where they do it-the world isn't that big.
 

shadowshiv

Dark Overlord
May 29, 2007
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The Odyssey isn't the only salvage there is, is it? And idiotic BS is it? I can have an opinion without someone being a jerk about it.

And I would like to add that I had only quickly glanced at the article before posting(I was about to head out the door), so I wasn't able to read the full story. I'll accept that I didn't know all the facts at the time, but I still think that you could have chosen your words more carefully.
 

Cliffy

Standing Member
Nov 19, 2008
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The gold and silver should belong to those from whom it was plundered. The Spanish were the most vicious plunderers of the New World but they have not made an apology or given restitution for their rein of terror. Germany was made to pay for their plunder, why not the Spanish?
 

bill barilko

Senate Member
Mar 4, 2009
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idiotic BS is it? I can have an opinion without someone being a jerk about it.
The jerk is when your foot snapped up and lodged in your yap.

And I would like to add that I had only quickly glanced at the article before posting(I was about to head out the door), so I wasn't able to read the full story. I'll accept that I didn't know all the facts at the time, but I still think that you could have chosen your words more carefully.
Excuses are like asholes everyone has them and they all stink.


The gold and silver should belong to those from whom it was plundered. The Spanish were the most vicious plunderers of the New World but they have not made an apology or given restitution for their rein of terror. Germany was made to pay for their plunder, why not the Spanish?

I guess you've never heard of the Belgians destroying the Congo or the Dutch raping Indonesia-neither of them paid a dime either.

Thanks for the laugh though.
 

shadowshiv

Dark Overlord
May 29, 2007
17,545
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FYI-You need to

A-Develop a much thicker skin to post on the net.

B-Learn to use the Ignore feature.

HTH

I don't need to do anything. Read what it says at the bottom of each thread. Attack the post, but don't attack the poster. And as a Mod, we can't place anyone on Ignore, even if I wanted to(which I don't). Seriously, you can make posts without descending into insults, as I've seen your posts before.
 

SLM

The Velvet Hammer
Mar 5, 2011
29,151
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If this isn't the most ignorant idiotic Bee Ess posted here in a month I don't know what is.

That's impossible because I'm sure you've been posting here within the last month.


FYI-You need to

A-Develop a much thicker skin to post on the net.

B-Learn to use the Ignore feature.

HTH

FYI-What you need to do is:

A-Learn how to speak to people.

B-Lose the self-important arrogant attitude.

C-Grow a brain, a heart, and try to act like you evolved like the rest of us.
 

Locutus

Adorable Deplorable
Jun 18, 2007
32,230
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If this isn't the most ignorant idiotic Bee Ess posted here in a month I don't know what is.

FYI-Odyssey could have approached the Spanish Govt with an offer but they did no such thing-they tried to grab it all completely ignoring international maritime law and so they lost everything.

The idea that someone could somehow just dump half a billion plus in silver coins on the black market is another howler- everyone knows what Odyssey does and where they do it-the world isn't that big.

The jerk is when your foot snapped up and lodged in your yap.


Excuses are like asholes everyone has them and they all stink.




I guess you've never heard of the Belgians destroying the Congo or the Dutch raping Indonesia-neither of them paid a dime either.

Thanks for the laugh though.

FYI-You need to

A-Develop a much thicker skin to post on the net.

B-Learn to use the Ignore feature.

HTH


Someone pee in your cornflakes billy boy? First mate of Odyssey win all your marbles when you was a kid?

You almost come off as an angry drunk, not that there is anything wrong with that ya know.

Oh sure, the internet is serious business, but that's a meme and Silly Billy, meme's is for kids.

Protip: A man would have explained what shadow had missed without trying to impress the girls.
 

SLM

The Velvet Hammer
Mar 5, 2011
29,151
5
36
London, Ontario
Protip: A man would have explained what shadow had missed without trying to impress the girls.

Oh man, that was trying to impress the girls???

That's so very, very sad and pathetic! But now that I think about it, that's how I generally find most of his attempts to 'assert his dominance'.

Also he's quite fortunate that Shadow is a cool cat that doesn't power trip. Or maybe that's just a demonstration that he can't even get a death wish right.
 

Locutus

Adorable Deplorable
Jun 18, 2007
32,230
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Yep.

Don't know why maturity is sometimes harder to find online than irl.

No one can see you cry, blush, lose face or tremble your lip. It's just keystrokes.

Say you were out of line and move on like a man. That brings respect. Not these childish e-p e n i s games.
 

SLM

The Velvet Hammer
Mar 5, 2011
29,151
5
36
London, Ontario
It makes you wonder. If half of it was said to someone's face the way it was said here, they'd be getting punched in the face a lot. I'm sure of it.