Separatism is High Treason

[Numure]

Meech Lake was a sad joke;

Mulroney and his cronies said, " Let's give Quebec veto power over almost all constitutional issues and hope nobody catches on". There were aboriginal issues as well but Clyde Wells caught on and so did Elija Harper. Thankfully that thing died on the table.

It was an attempt to make the constitution valid. As it is now, it still isnt. Québec didnt sign onto it. That means 22% of the population of this country arnt represented by the constitution.

Did you ever notice that Quebec always claims that they never "signed on" to the constitution, BUT Quebec is always willing to invoke the "notwithstanding clause" of...THE CONSTITUTION!!!!

How can you use a provision of a constitution that you claim you aren't a part of? YOU CAN'T!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! It's all just a sham. By the fact that the Quebec gov't uses provisions of the constitution, they are in fact accepting it.

Because that same constitution are the rules we are FORCED to play by.

 

[Numure]

Meech Lake was a sad joke;

Mulroney and his cronies said, " Let's give Quebec veto power over almost all constitutional issues and hope nobody catches on". There were aboriginal issues as well but Clyde Wells caught on and so did Elija Harper. Thankfully that thing died on the table.

It was an attempt to make the constitution valid. As it is now, it still isnt. Québec didnt sign onto it. That means 22% of the population of this country arnt represented by the constitution.

Yes but why didn't Quebec sign on? There is nothing in the constitution as it is now that would hurt Quebec. What do you mean make the constitution valid? Right now it gives Quebec the same rights as any other province and more. Quebecers always site some draconian betrayal when the other provinces simply wanted a country that was not ruled by Quebec. Quebec would have had veto power over almost any constitutional change. How was that fair?

Because we asked for many thing when Trudeau brought it back, but none was given to us. Certain things currently in it, as well, we did not want. So instead of working things out, Trudeau got every other Premier together, negotiated and signed it. Backstabbing 101.

The main reason he did this, was because we wanted to limit the federal governments power. Trudeau maneged to convince every other province that it was all a sham to make seperation easiyer. Thus the Premiers signed on. But the changes we asked, IMHO, would of killed the hole seperatist cause.

 

[missile]

Sorry to disagree with you there,but the only way to stop the separatist movement is to let them have their way..and then wait for the people of Quebec to beg Canada to take them back into the fold. I figure it would take about two months without all the Canadian Government cheques that Quebeckers receive :twisted:

 

[the caracal kid]

heh heh, missle. your comment reminds me of something somebody said back when the separatist movement first started gaining strength after Meech: to paraphrase (i don't recall the exact wording), let them try and separate. only this time when we win the battle we won't be so generous as last time.

i find the last few comments on quebec benefitting from canada and then wanting to leave quite interesting. Any province would take what it can from canada while it could. If a province then feels it can go it better alone after so, can you really fault them for wanting to? Before anybody votes on such a thing though, rational evaluation should take precidence over emotional nationalism. I applaud the strong cultural identity that is necessary to form your own country, but fail to see quebec standing on its own economically.

 

[MMMike]

Sorry to disagree with you there,but the only way to stop the separatist movement is to let them have their way..and then wait for the people of Quebec to beg Canada to take them back into the fold. I figure it would take about two months without all the Canadian Government cheques that Quebeckers receive :twisted:

...and after seeing the corporate sector flee for the door!

 

[Reverend Blair]

RE: Separatism is High Tr

I'm not convinced that the corporate sector would flee, MMMikey. There would be an initial dip, because money always flees instability, but with the trade atmosphere it is likely that they'd be back in hurry.

 

[s_lone]

Don't you find it totally flabbergasting that one province isn't even signed on the constitution! I was still in elementary school during the whole Meech Lake thing but now I'm a young adult and it is just beyond my comprehension that Canadians accept the present situation. I just don't feel I have a country of my own right now. How can I if my province isn't on the constitution?!!

I am truly hoping that the constitutional issue be reopened within the next 2 years... SOON! Before the next provincial election in Quebec. Heck, let's make this federal election exciting for everyone and let's TALK! Let's debate! Paul Martin wants to make seperation an electoral issue but he's just repeating the same old tape: "I refuse to believe that Quebecers could choose to leave Canada" Wake up Paul! Do something about the seperatist cause and come up with new ideas and propositions!

I will be sad if we leave Canada, but the joy of finally having a country that I can truly call my own will be a whole lot greater than my sadness.

PS: This thread started off with the words "Treason and other Offences against the Queen's Authority and Person"

... Hmmm... we're in 2005 right?

 

[Martin Le Acadien]

As a hypothetical situation,

if an Idaho senator decided to push for the separation of Idaho from the states, how long do you think it would be before that senator was discovered by reporters and cameramen in a motel bed with a young boy and a goat. We are too kind in Canada. I say tearing the country apart is treason.

#Juan, several of our Senators and/or Reps have done just this, either advocated getting out of the US or getting a goat and a man friend.

Hawaii is actively pushing for greater soverienty or independence, Louisiana is feeling the call, and of course Alaska has an independence Party!

 

[no1important]

RE: Separatism is High Tr

I noticed when I was in Hawaii last, there was a lot of anti US Government sentiment and people have signs on their property telling the uS to get out of Hawaii.

 

[Doryman]

Newfoundland is the other place.

The amount of federal money and equalization payments that have been given to Newfoundland in the last thirty years is massive. Now with a lot of help they are exploiting their oil resources. Now they want to separate? quote]


The amount of federal money gained by ottawa through Newfoundland resources and labour is equally massive.

And... THe Newfoundland thing isn't really that serious of an idea. It's more of a presentation of discontent, and a "hip" thing to do among the youngsters. If Canada met NL at a few key agreements the whole thing would melt away.

Anyhoo.

Duceppe calling for an army is ludicrous and like most Seperatist rambling it's simply an attempt to get more attention. Also he wouldn't be able to annex Canadian Military bases in Quebec. I'm pretty sure we all know why so many bases are there. Quebec will be seperate for about a week before they get strong-armed back in.

Stop whining, Quebec. If this were any other country your seperatist party would be laughed at in the streets or jailed as insurgents. Just keep milking our country for all it's worth, and keep quiet about it.

 

[Numure]

RE: Separatism is High Tr

The Canadian Government would never walk on a democratic process for independance. The Canadian image would be dead for all time, and investments all across the country would fly away. Canada would be shooting itself in the foot.

Theirs only 4 military bases in Québec. Bagotville, an air force base. Valcartier, the base of the 22nd regiment, 100% francophone, give or take a few. An administrative base in LonguePoint, Montreal. And an officers school in Saint-Jean-sur-Richelieu.

Now think about how many members of the Canadian military from Québec are seperatist? Alot that I know are.

 

[Durgan]

Re: RE: Separatism is High Tr

Now think about how many members of the Canadian military from Québec are seperatist? Alot that I know are.

Soldiers obey or face the consequences. The common soldier is too stupid to act without officer input. Their duty to obey their officers, which they are trained to do without question. And they will do so. The Canadian soldier is well indocrinated, and will obey in spite of private opinions.

Durgan.

 

[Jay]

Re: RE: Separatism is High Tr

Now think about how many members of the Canadian military from Québec are seperatist? Alot that I know are.

Soldiers obey or face the consequences. The common soldier is too stupid to act without officer input. Their duty to obey their officers, which they are trained to do without question. And they will do so. The Canadian soldier is well indocrinated, and will obey in spite of private opinions.

Durgan.

Hmmm, interesting. I wonder if the common soldier is told to vote Liberal this election, will they just do it?

I will have to ask my common soldier friend this.

 

[Numure]

Re: RE: Separatism is High Tr

Now think about how many members of the Canadian military from Québec are seperatist? Alot that I know are.

Soldiers obey or face the consequences. The common soldier is too stupid to act without officer input. Their duty to obey their officers, which they are trained to do without question. And they will do so. The Canadian soldier is well indocrinated, and will obey in spite of private opinions.

Durgan.

Your thinking of the American army right now. Canadian army works alot differently, where as every single Canadian soldier I know hates their officers, or most of them, and will do everything they can do make their lives a shiting hell without loosing their job.

 

[Colpy]

Re: RE: Separatism is High Tr

The Canadian Government would never walk on a democratic process for independance. The Canadian image would be dead for all time, and investments all across the country would fly away. Canada would be shooting itself in the foot.

Theirs only 4 military bases in Québec. Bagotville, an air force base. Valcartier, the base of the 22nd regiment, 100% francophone, give or take a few. An administrative base in LonguePoint, Montreal. And an officers school in Saint-Jean-sur-Richelieu.

Now think about how many members of the Canadian military from Québec are seperatist? Alot that I know are.

I think you will find that the Royal 22nd Regiment will be in Afghanistan for a year's tour starting about the day of any referendum.

Where were they in 1995?

 

[Doryman]

Re: RE: Separatism is High Tr

Now think about how many members of the Canadian military from Québec are seperatist? Alot that I know are.

Soldiers obey or face the consequences. The common soldier is too stupid to act without officer input.

Voicing that opinion's a good way to get your ass kicked by a common soldier. Most of the time, NCM's work on their own initiative and even provide suggestions and support for junior officers.

However, I doubt that there will be an uprising of french military in quebec in the event of a secession; those with seperatist leanings will be let go ( they should anyway!) and the others will do as they are supposed to do; provide support for the federal government, in whatever capacity it needs.

And make no mistake, while having the military stand on a "free quebec" may look bad for the country, letting a single province cause havoc in the country by splitting off will look a hell of a lot worse, and will do more damage. You can bet that as soon as Canada starts looking fragile and unstable, foreign countries wil start getting ideas, and the States are going to look North, think "whoa, security risk", and take actions to "pacify" the situation. One could make a good case by arguing that an insurrection in and fragmentation of one's closest neighbour could justify military action.

Trust me, no good can possibly come of the Balkanization of Canada. For anyone.

 

[DasFX]

Gilles Duceppe wants a Quebec army.

I agree with Gilles. If Quebec were to form their own nation, they should have their own armed forces. They will no longer be under Canadian jurisdiction. They should have their own military, currency, passport/citizenship and so on.

I mean, isn't that independence?

 

[Karlin]

Re: RE: Separatism is High Tr

With the last vote due to it being a misleading and unclear question some people thought they would still have a form of association with Canada.

The next question should be a simple "Do you wish for Quebec to leave Canada and form our own seperate country".

So then people know, if they vote yes they are on their own and no longer apart of Canada period.

Now yer talkin'!

Les Quebecois just might want their own nation of Quebec, nobody has really asked them clearly.
If they say YES to soveriegnty, I would wholeheartedly support them. Afterall, FREEDOM is being able to choose, and if their choice is soveriegnty then thats what they should get.

All the yap from 'the rest of Canada' about is it going to be good for them, or for Canada, is really quite moot. Its their [Quebecers] decision, and as a freedom loving Canadian, I really want them to be able to make that decision, because it means freedom lives and is well enough to make real changes.

Only subversive controlling fools [and there are many] would step in the way of a nation of people who desire soveriegnty, from the Iraq-Turkish Kurds to the Nepalise, Taiwan to Quebec, etc to etc. .

Otherwise, its just trouble, loss of cultures, and detriment to personal well being for those held captive in a foreign land. On that point, I know many Quebecois who feel like captives in Canada, and I wuld like to see them get their soveriegnty.

As for the ?% who are "the Hinglitsh" in Quebec, I hope some accomodations can be made for them too. But heck, I lived in Alberta for 40 years as a traitor to the oilmen, so I know what its like to be the odd one out. For the Hinglitsh of some future soveriegn Quebec who feel betrayed, do as I did and move to BC where we ALL feel left out of the official status, and are therefore united.