Self realization without a guru.

[china]

If we look back into history, we will conclude that most of the realized beings had masters to guide them in understanding of the truth. Can a man learn this art of self realization on his own ,can we proceed in the right direction without being guided by a master or a guru?

 

[Kreskin]

It depends how much money is in it.

 

[talloola]

There will always be the leaders, the followers, the con guys and the suckers, that's
just the way it is.

 

[china]

talloola

There will always be the leaders, the followers, the con guys and the suckers, that's
just the way it is.

How right You are talloola ;this also is a part of realization ...an awareness .
What I,m interested in is ;who are these leader(s) ,do we invite them into our lives ,why/how do they affect our selves ?

 

[Cliffy]

A truly enlightened being would tell the seeker to go away and seek his own truth. Either that or torment him until he does go away.

 

[china]

Cliffy,
Well ,a truly enlightened being would never tell the seeker to find his own truth .
Searching for truth is denying it.

 

[talloola]

talloola

How right You are talloola ;this also is a part of realization ...an awareness .
What I,m interested in is ;who are these leader(s) ,do we invite them into our lives ,why/how do they affect our selves ?

the trick is, to know a leader from a con man, what examples do we have to
use as a guage, certainly not our politicians, and for me, certainly not
religious leaders, as they both have their con men amongst them.
No. there are no 'real' leaders, we are all in this together, we should look
inside of ourselves for our own abilities to lead.

 

[china]

As far as the leaders go I think it is a responsibility (moral) of a leader to train and teach the follower the qualifications of a leadership .If not ,that "leader" is nothing else but a dictator .Look at Sadam ....was he a leader?
But anyhow ,this is about self realization

 

[talloola]

As far as the leaders go I think it is a responsibility (moral) of a leader to train and teach the follower the qualifications of a leadership .If not ,that "leader" is nothing else but a dictator .Look at Sadam ....was he a leader?
But anyhow ,this is about self realization

Sadam fits into the 'con man' mold, and all others like him.

 

[Dexter Sinister]

Searching for truth is denying it.

Well, I suppose a guru wouldn't be of much use then, would he? If searching for truth is denying it, why bother looking? That can only mean it can't be found by looking for it. What would you suggest, that we wait around for truth (whatever you think that means) to find us through some revelatory mechanism? You want some truths? Here are a few:

1. The earth orbits the sun.
2. Time varying electric fields create magnetic fields, and vice versa.
3. Nothing material can exceed the speed of light in a vacuum.
4. Your thought processes are a complete mystery to me. Nothing you've ever posted in the philosophical vein has ever made any sense to me, and most of it strikes me as either just plain wrong, or incoherent.

 

[china]

Sadam fits into the 'con man' mold, and all others like him.

I think that's what the dictator is .....a con-man .

 

[china]

The Dexter Sinister .

You want some truths? Here are a few:

1. The earth orbits the sun.
2. Time varying electric fields create magnetic fields, and vice versa.
3. Nothing material can exceed the speed of light in a vacuum.

To me ,Dexter , these are scientific facts. I'm sure that you know allot of them .

Your thought processes are a complete mystery to me. Nothing you've ever posted in the philosophical vein has ever made any sense to me, and most of it strikes me as either just plain wrong, or incoherent.

What is complete mystery to me is why are you continue reading my posts in this "philosophical vain" if they are wrong and incoherent? Is it perhaps ,as I have mention few month ago , your mind is limited to the amount of knowledge it has ;another words not very creative not,original and not flexible ?
What I would suggest Dexter,is that you spend some time at St. Peters , in seclusion, be a hermit for a while Dexter, and your mind will tell you what it's all about ;I hope.

 

[china]

In my personal experience life is the only Guru or a Master. A life lived with awareness is the only source of learning. Of course we require sources of light in the form of Buddha, Christ, and many others who contributed but were not recognized or did not want to be recognized. Question is what do we want to learn? Are we investigating the self or the outside world?If we are investigating the outside world we can turn to someone like Dexter Sinister ,he is full of scientific facts. If we are investigating the self then who else but the self can be the investigator?
Self knowledge, carried out with honesty, reveals that what good or bad (please do not debate the use of the words) we see outside is all within us. The self knowledge also reveals that, given the circumstances, we are also capable of carrying out those acts for which we criticize others for. Therefore self knowledge must lead to compassion. For this investigation I do not believe one requires a Guru.

 

[mit]

The human mind is one of the most fantastic creations - but it is guided by the soul. Something that science has yet to prove exists. It is unique in my estimation to humans. It is the epicentre of our emotions. If you can reach in to a person's soul you have them by their etheral gonads. Philosophers - conmen and leaders know and use this to their advantage.

 

[china]

mit,

The human mind is one of the most fantastic creations - but it is guided by the soul. Something that science has yet to prove exists.

Hi mit ,just wondering how do you come to this assumption that the mind is guided by the soul .
What is a soul,mit ?

 

[mit]

I doubt that I can explain it - I just take comfort in knowing we have one. It is unimportant to prove it's existence if you already know it exists. AND it is a heck of a lot of fun playing with other's souls once you know how to do it!

 

[china]

AND..... it is a heck of a lot of fun playing with others' souls once you know how to do it

!
Have fun ,but don't be late for dinner .

 

[talloola]

We have a brain and the ability to reason, we can think back, and think ahead in time, we can learn,
we experience joy and sadness, and we have the ability to be balanced between
unhappiness and euphoria, so that we move through our lives feeling satisfied, so
perhaps, for those who cannot find the 'balance', another can guide them, so they
can experience happiness, a leader 'of sorts', more of a 'friend', it seems, but, not
a doctor, with nothing more than a prescription pad in his hand, and no capability
to 'really' help, or lead.

 

[china]

......for those who cannot find the 'balance', another can guide them, so they
can experience happiness, a leader 'of sorts', more of a 'friend', it seems, but, not
a doctor, with nothing more than a prescription pad in his hand, and no capability
to 'really' help, or lead.

perhaps someone who knows how to listen would do the trick ; a psychotherapist ?...In any case just by having someone listening to him, the patient in many cases can put himself on the "right track" without any "outside help" .He is still his own "Guru".