see of The Mercy of god

[eanassir]

Want to talk about predation and disease? Nature has no mercy, that's a human idea.

... no creatures but humans have any such concept as far as I know, with the possible exception of some of our closer relatives, like chimps and bonobos, that may display behaviours that can be interpreted that way.
A mare not stepping on her colt isn't mercy, it's natural selection: animals that fatally injure their offspring won't survive.
There's no need to invoke a deity to explain it, there are perfectly satisfactory naturalistic explanations.

God – be glorified – is Most Gracious to his creatures, and He is Most Merciful exclusively to believers in the next afterlife. This is in the first aya of every chapter of the Quran (except chapter 9)​

بِسْمِ اللّهِ الرَّحْمَنِ الرَّحِيمِ​

The explanation:
(In the name of God, Most Gracious, Most Merciful)​

[Most Gracious: He is Merciful to both the believer and the disbeliever, during this Worldly life.
Most Merciful: He is exclusively Merciful only to believers (monotheists), in the afterlife.]​

It is true the kind is merciful to its offspring in order to preserve its kind, which is also part of God's mercy; but such mercy is not confined to the same kind or species; many observations show some wild animals merciful to the young offspring of other species and kind.​

Moreover, even when some wild beast kills another animal, he kills it immediately without letting it suffer, which also indicates some kind of mercy: like the devouring of the sheep by the wolf, and I saw in some encyclopedia the tiger (the striped one) kill a monkey, he came to the monkey from behind and immediately killed him from the neck without letting it suffer … etc. Most wild animals kill only to eat, but will not kill other animals unless it is hungry, which is also some kind of mercy, in spite of that such act will also maintain its food.​

While the predation and disease and adversity that God let man suffer in the World: man in this World is a student and he is passing an examination: man is learning and at the same time he is under trial and examination; he will learn the rest from facing some tiredness, the happiness in comparison to wretchedness, the health after passing some illness; whereas the next afterlife is only happiness and prosperity without disease and suffering (that is for believers only.) ​

God created people in order to be Merciful to them, but the disbeliever refused but only to suffer and be unhappy in his next life in addition to this Worldly life.​

This is in the Quran 11: 18-19​

وَلَوْ شَاء رَبُّكَ لَجَعَلَ النَّاسَ أُمَّةً وَاحِدَةً وَلاَ يَزَالُونَ مُخْتَلِفِينَ . إِلاَّ مَن رَّحِمَ رَبُّكَ وَلِذَلِكَ خَلَقَهُمْ وَتَمَّتْ كَلِمَةُ رَبِّكَ لأَمْلأنَّ جَهَنَّمَ مِنَ الْجِنَّةِ وَالنَّاسِ أَجْمَعِينَ​

The explanation:
(If your Lord [O Mohammed] had willed, He would have made people one sect [: believers and monotheists], but still they disagree and contradict.​

Save him to whom God hath mercy, and for that [reason] He has created them. ​

And [O Mohammed] it is fulfilled the word of your Lord: "Certainly, I will fill Hell with [the disbelievers and associaters among] the genie-kind and the man-kind altogether.")​

eanassir
http://man-after-death.741.com​

 

[Dexter Sinister]

<sigh> Still full of your usual nonsense I see. "God – be glorified – is Most Gracious to his creatures, and He is Most Merciful exclusively to believers in the next afterlife." Right, so he was merciful to that baby baboon because the baboon's a believer? That's about the level of intelligence it takes to buy the stuff you're spreading.

 

[eanassir]

There are many objections to this theory of Evolution; they take it as an argument to their atheism and denial of the Creator – be glorified.

Some points against the theory of Darwin:
· They did not see such evolution by their own eyes, but only they postulate and suppose.
· Some disciplines of knowledge like embryology and heredity is true; but their attributing that to the evolution is wrong.
· The sudden appearance of many species and kinds refutes their claims; in addition: some complex organisms appeared before some other simple organisms.
· Some of the fossils might have come embedded in some rocks and mountains, when such rocks and mountains were not from Earth originally.
· Why don't new species appear from some existing species, if it is really true that there is such evolution? In other words: why not man change into a new different species, or the monkey becomes another superior creature?

Actually, the matter is not like that, but:
>> Certainly there is the effect of the environment, the heredity and the intermarriage in producing many variation (and in keeping the essential criteria) in the same species and subspecies like mankind.
>> God – be glorified – created of every species a male and a female (directly from the decayed organic substances), and these male and female started to reproduce and intermarry to produce some variation according to the heredity rules.
>> God – be exalted – created every species to suit its environment precisely and delicately.
>> This creation process is continuous whenever and wherever He pleases to create whatever new or old species out of the decayed organic materials of the dead plant, animal and man.

Refer to our thread at this Canadian forum at:
http://forums.canadiancontent.net/science-environment/68627-conditions-essential-creating-man-animal.html

(The conditions essential for creating man and animal.)​

 

[eanassir]

<sigh> Still full of your usual nonsense I see. "God – be glorified – is Most Gracious to his creatures, and He is Most Merciful exclusively to believers in the next afterlife." Right, so he was merciful to that baby baboon because the baboon's a believer? That's about the level of intelligence it takes to buy the stuff you're spreading.

This actully indicates your nonsense and manipulating the idea according to your desire; I mean the believers and the disbelievers among men; the baboon and other animals also know and recognize their Lord Who created them, and are grateful to Him for His favors, while the atheist and disbeliever denies the grace and favor of his Creator and Provider.

 

[Dexter Sinister]

You understand exactly nothing about evolution, and your grip on the rest of reality is pretty tenuous too.

 

[eanassir]

You understand exactly nothing about evolution, and your grip on the rest of reality is pretty tenuous too.

You say to me you, and I say to you you; so you is out of the bracket. :smile:

 

[Dexter Sinister]

You say to me you, and I say to you you; so you is out of the bracket. :smile:

I is out of the bracket? What does that mean?

 

[eanassir]

I is out of the bracket? What does that mean?

Refer to the dictionary of Webster, but not to Darwin. :lol:

 

[Dexter Sinister]

10 dictionary results for: bracket
Dictionary.com Unabridged (v 1.1) - Cite This Source - Share This brack·et

/ˈbræk

ɪt/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[brak-it] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation –noun 1.a support, as of metal or wood, projecting from a wall or the like to hold or bear the weight of a shelf, part of a cornice, etc. 2.a shelf or shelves so supported. 3.Also called square bracket. one of two marks [ or ] used in writing or printing to enclose parenthetical matter, interpolations, etc. 4.Mathematics. a.brackets, parentheses of various forms indicating that the enclosed quantity is to be treated as a unit. b.(loosely) vinculum (def. 2). c.Informal. an expression or formula between a pair of brackets. 5.a grouping of people based on the amount of their income: the low-income bracket. 6.a class; grouping; classification: She travels in a different social bracket. 7.Architecture. a.any horizontally projecting support for an overhanging weight, as a corbel, cantilever, or console. b.any of a series of fancifully shaped false consoles beneath an ornamental cornice. 8.(on a staircase) an ornamental piece filling the angle between a riser and its tread. 9.Shipbuilding. a.a flat plate, usually triangular with a flange on one edge, used to unite and reinforce the junction between two flat members or surfaces meeting at an angle. b.any member for reinforcing the angle between two members or surfaces. 10.a projecting fixture for gas or electricity. 11.Gunnery. range or elevation producing both shorts and overs on a target. –verb (used with object) 12.to furnish with or support by a bracket or brackets. 13.to place within brackets; couple with a brace. 14.to associate, mention, or class together: Gossip columnists often bracket them together, so a wedding may be imminent. 15.Gunnery. to place (shots) both beyond and short of a target. 16.Photography. to take (additional shots) at exposure levels above and below the estimated correct exposure.

So, which definition of bracket do you mean?

 

[eanassir]

10 dictionary results for: bracket
Dictionary.com Unabridged (v 1.1) - Cite This Source - Share This brack·et

/ˈbræk

ɪt/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[brak-it] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation –noun 1.a support, as of metal or wood, projecting from a wall or the like to hold or bear the weight of a shelf, part of a cornice, etc. 2.a shelf or shelves so supported. 3.Also called square bracket. one of two marks [ or ] used in writing or printing to enclose parenthetical matter, interpolations, etc. 4.Mathematics. a.brackets, parentheses of various forms indicating that the enclosed quantity is to be treated as a unit. b.(loosely) vinculum (def. 2). c.Informal. an expression or formula between a pair of brackets. 5.a grouping of people based on the amount of their income: the low-income bracket. 6.a class; grouping; classification: She travels in a different social bracket. 7.Architecture. a.any horizontally projecting support for an overhanging weight, as a corbel, cantilever, or console. b.any of a series of fancifully shaped false consoles beneath an ornamental cornice. 8.(on a staircase) an ornamental piece filling the angle between a riser and its tread. 9.Shipbuilding. a.a flat plate, usually triangular with a flange on one edge, used to unite and reinforce the junction between two flat members or surfaces meeting at an angle. b.any member for reinforcing the angle between two members or surfaces. 10.a projecting fixture for gas or electricity. 11.Gunnery. range or elevation producing both shorts and overs on a target. –verb (used with object) 12.to furnish with or support by a bracket or brackets. 13.to place within brackets; couple with a brace. 14.to associate, mention, or class together: Gossip columnists often bracket them together, so a wedding may be imminent. 15.Gunnery. to place (shots) both beyond and short of a target. 16.Photography. to take (additional shots) at exposure levels above and below the estimated correct exposure.

So, which definition of bracket do you mean?

Mr. Dexy, thank you for such information. :idea:

 

[eanassir]

One manifestation of God's mercy:​

Recently [: on October 7, 2008] the Meteoroid 2008 TC3 impacted the earth in the northern part of Sudan in almost uninhabited desert area. Had it fallen on some crowded area of some large cities, its devastation would have become much severe.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008_TC3​

Such large meteoroids (about 2 meters) may fall 2-3 [some said 1-5] times yearly on Earth; it did seldom happen that such a relatively large bodies or objects fell on some crowded cities.
There are also a large number of small celestial rocks (meteorites) that fall daily on Earth; but all that occur on uninhabited regions.​

Here we also remember the Tenguska comet (which equalled more than 100 atomic bombs like that of Hiroshima); had it fallen on some capitals of the world, it would have caused much devastation. ​

 

[Nuggler]

I is out of the bracket? What does that mean?

:lol: Hopefully , I is out of that particular bracket, also.

Jeebus, what convoluted horsesh@t.

 

[Dexter Sinister]

One manifestation of God's mercy:​

Recently [: on October 7, 2008] the Meteoroid 2008 TC3 impacted the earth in the northern part of Sudan in almost uninhabited desert area. Had it fallen on some crowded area of some large cities, its devastation would have become much severe.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008_TC3​

Did you actually read that article? There was no impact, the first sentence of it says, it "...entered Earth's atmosphere on October 7, 2008 at 02:46 UTC (5:46 a.m. local time) and burned up before making physical contact with the ground. [my emphasis]" You're the same person who claimed that these things land gently and sit on the surface, only comets behave as this thing did, except for it apparently being attracted to a hot area instead of the cold areas they usually favor.

Your grip on reality, even your own skewed version of it, is even more tenuous than I thought. I'm not surprised that you can interpret god not bombing us with meteorites as a sign of his mercy, believing as you do that nothing happens without him willing it. You must also believe that even my unbelief, and scorn for your beliefs, are due to his will. In fact the Quran quite explicitly says that, as I'm sure you know. It's all Allah's doing, nobody's personally responsible for anything. I think a god who'd purposefully create beings who cannot be held responsible for their actions because he apparently chooses to lead them astray so he can fill Hell with them and watch them roast forever, is evil and repulsive. You're a fool to believe crap like that.

 

[Twila]

Not the intelligence to have compassion, and invite the little one to join their family, how does that fit in to the big picture.

Actually from an evolutionary standpoint this shows great intelligence. If you want your DNA to survive and flourish you do not provide for babies that are not of your making.

Mercy and compassion is not always allowing something to live. There is great mercy in a quick kill.

Animals can show compassion however. Elephants will do what is best for an individual member rather then leaving one behind for the herds greater good.

Dogs may have a sense of justice according to some. (will try to find article about dogs and justice) Capuchin monkeys too.
http://www.primates.com/monkeys/fairness.html


Sorry to have taken this away from the fun religious aspect that's been going on so far. But it's best to use science rather then mystical fluffy air stuffs in a debate.

 

[talloola]

Actually from an evolutionary standpoint this shows great .

intelligence. If you want your DNA to survive and flourish you do not provide for babies that are not of your making.
Wringing the mother ducks neck was my first thought, ;-) just had to walk away thinking
about that little duckling, while hoping it somehow would survive.

Mercy and compassion is not always allowing something to live. There is great mercy in a quick kill.
Well, that little eaglet's parents sat up in that nest for hours and hours, while their
eaglet, standing on the ground right below them, stood for hours till it finally layed down and died. Next time I will take action, and find a animal rescue place, was my
own ignorance.

Animals can show compassion however. Elephants will do what is best for an individual member rather then leaving one behind for the herds greater good.
Yes, elephants have wonderful compassion for their own, and also their dead, they
will gather bones and organize them, and mourne.

Dogs may have a sense of justice according to some. (will try to find article about dogs and justice) Capuchin monkeys too.
http://www.primates.com/monkeys/fairness.html


Sorry to have taken this away from the fun religious aspect that's been going on so far. But it's best to use science rather then mystical fluffy air stuffs in a debate

So true.

 

[Ron in Regina]

Dogs may have a sense of justice according to some. (will try to find article about dogs and justice)...

I can tell you that they (some of them anyway) have a loooong memory with respect to an
injustice upon them. Balance say's that there should be a sence of justice also then...

 

[Twila]

Wringing the mother ducks neck was my first thought, just had to walk away thinking about that little duckling, while hoping it somehow would survive.

I love nature and I see the logic on how it operates. However, it would have hurt my heart to watch also. But for every "intelligent" duck mother out there, there is alos sometimes an animal that takes in another with no regard for protecting it's DNA. And then there's us silly 2 legged creatures who will often times go broke to keep an animal alive.

Well, that little eaglet's parents sat up in that nest for hours and hours, while their
eaglet, standing on the ground right below them, stood for hours till it finally layed down and died. Next time I will take action, and find a animal rescue place, was my own ignorance.

Victoria has a few. And I'm always happy to help with research and making phone calls,if you ever need the help

 

[eanassir]

Did you actually read that article? There was no impact, the first sentence of it says, it "...entered Earth's atmosphere on October 7, 2008 at 02:46 UTC (5:46 a.m. local time) and burned up before making physical contact with the ground.

Whether this object burnt in the atmosphere or impacted the earth at an uninhabited region, the consequence will be the same: sparing the crowded towns and cities with God's mercy and kindness.​

[my emphasis]" You're the same person who claimed that these things land gently and sit on the surface, only comets behave as this thing did, except for it apparently being attracted to a hot area instead of the cold areas they usually favor.

There is here some mixing between the mountains that landed on the Earth at its early phases of development, the meteorites and the comets. ​

It was you and some other members who objected to the idea that the mountains had settled on the Earth, and said this would have lead to its complete destruction, then I said they might have come down at certain speed or angle of landing or the crust of the Earth was not so solid and it absorbed the impact. ​

The meteorites may come at any speed, and will have friction with the atmosphere and if big enough they will reach the earth surface. While if small, they may burn in the form of meteors.​

On the other hand, comets are fire objects like large sparks or fireballs coming out of the Sun, they have the affinity to fall on the cold regions of the Earth or other cold objects in the solar system.​

This object Ct 2008 is unknown exactly whether it was an asteroid, a meteorite or a comet. They did not find any impact yet, but they recorded some sound waves and some airplanes saw the flash or the fireball. They located the impact site as 300 km from either of Mecca and Khartoum.​

I'm not surprised that you can interpret god not bombing us with meteorites as a sign of his mercy,

Actually, God threatened the wrong-doers (who consequently will almost be associaters and disbelievers) with raining down upon them of some meteorites like Lot's people where their habitations now the dead sea is surrounded by a large number of such meteoritic stones.
This is in the Quran 11: 82-83​

فَلَمَّا جَاء أَمْرُنَا جَعَلْنَا عَالِيَهَا سَافِلَهَا وَأَمْطَرْنَا عَلَيْهَا حِجَارَةً مِّن سِجِّيلٍ مَّنضُودٍ . مُّسَوَّمَةً عِندَ رَبِّكَ وَمَا هِيَ مِنَ الظَّالِمِينَ بِبَعِيدٍ​

The explanation:
(And when Our decree issued, We made the high parts [of their houses] their low parts [by the earthquake].
And We rained down upon them packed sedimentary stones, marked [i.e. have marks from their origin by sedimentation],
with [the knowledge of] your Lord [O Mohammed.] And they are never far from the transgressors.)​

I think a god who'd purposefully create beings who cannot be held responsible for their actions because he apparently chooses to lead them astray so he can fill Hell with them and watch them roast forever, is evil and repulsive. You're a fool to believe crap like that.

God only misguides the wrong-doers and will neither guide them to the way of the monotheism in this World nor to the way of Paradise on the Judgment Day. God - be glorified - never wrong people, but it is people who do wrong themselves by transgressing on each other and disobeying the Commandments of God.​

eanassir
http://man-after-death.741.com​

 

[Dexter Sinister]

God only misguides the wrong-doers and will neither guide them to the way of the monotheism in this World nor to the way of Paradise on the Judgment Day.

And why are they wrong-doers?. They're wrong-doers because god made them that way deliberately. God's omnipotence is asserted everywhere in the Quran, human will is totally subordinate to god's will, so much so that humans can't be said to have a will of their own at all. Even those who don't believe in him, don't believe because god wills it so. God's responsible for everything, nothing happens except by the divine will, there's no such thing as personal responsibility or free will, it's all predestined and already written down by the pen of fate. That's about as bleak a perspective as I can imagine.

Apart from that, it makes no sense that a truly merciful deity would deliberately misguide people then roast them in Hell forever for things he did to them himself.. That's not mercy, that's vindictive cruelty, and the Quran goes into great detail about it. Your silly Prophet must have had a major streak of sadism. Running sores, boiling alive, burning skin, peeling flesh, dissolving bowels... It's pretty disgusting. And Muslims lay this stuff on intellectually defenseless children. It must be terrifying for them.

And consider this: in any Muslim country I'd probably be killed for what I just wrote, and for the sentence I'm going to write next. What more evidence do you need that Islam is merciless, cruel, frightened, unforgiving, totalitarian, small-minded, and stupid? It's stuck in the 7th century, hasn't learned anything in 1400 years.

 

[eanassir]

And why are they wrong-doers?. They're wrong-doers because god made them that way deliberately. God's omnipotence is asserted everywhere in the Quran, human will is totally subordinate to god's will, so much so that humans can't be said to have a will of their own at all. Even those who don't believe in him, don't believe because god wills it so. God's responsible for everything, nothing happens except by the divine will, there's no such thing as personal responsibility or free will, it's all predestined and already written down by the pen of fate. That's about as bleak a perspective as I can imagine.

Apart from that, it makes no sense that a truly merciful deity would deliberately misguide people then roast them in Hell forever for things he did to them himself.. That's not mercy, that's vindictive cruelty, and the Quran goes into great detail about it. Your silly Prophet must have had a major streak of sadism. Running sores, boiling alive, burning skin, peeling flesh, dissolving bowels... It's pretty disgusting. And Muslims lay this stuff on intellectually defenseless children. It must be terrifying for them.

• People have the free choice [without which no reward or punishment is justified]

This is in many ayat of the Quran like this 18: 29​

وَقُلِ الْحَقُّ مِن رَّبِّكُمْ فَمَن شَاء فَلْيُؤْمِن وَمَن شَاء فَلْيَكْفُرْ إِنَّا أَعْتَدْنَا لِلظَّالِمِينَ نَارًا أَحَاطَ بِهِمْ سُرَادِقُهَا​

The explanation:
(But Say [O Mohammed: "It is] the truth [revealed] from your Lord [O associaters];

so whosoever likes [to believe – let him] believe, and whosoever likes [to disbelieve – let him] disbelieve;

[surely] We have prepared for wrong-doers a fire of which the 'black tent-enclosure' shall encompass them [: its black smoke will enclose them])

​

• Man has to discipline himself and train it to be kind toward the weak, merciful to the poor and needy, and compassionate with the orphan and widow. He should train himself to be modest, not proud over people.

He has to avoid wronging people: does not wrong his sister, brother, mother and father, and other people in his work and career and daily dealing with others like his neighbors and kindred.

Man has to watch and observe his conscience: to be sincere with God Who knows what he thinks within himself; therefore man should be with God--- and then God will be with him and guide him.

>> E.g. an employee works and smiles in your face when your affair has come by her hand: but she makes some tricks that are lawful and by a way that troubles and impedes your advantage and causes many problems for your, while you did not do any harm for her; in such case she wronged you. God knows everything: then when such woman keeps up doing such wickedness, God may misguide her and she cannot grasp the truth and He will cast scales on her sight so she will not realize the truth, and will set the devils on her and they will have control on her and she will obey them step by step.

>> While another one whom God knows: he is cooperative with people and helps them by all means with his good manner, obeys the parents, and is kind with the neighbors and relatives; God may guide him, and he will receive the true word and accept the advise and God let him see the truth and hear the admonition and discern every wise revelation of God.

>> Moreover, a man who has a bad conduct may turn to God and moderate his behavior and purify his heart with kindness and mercy, then God will guide him and order His angels to inspire into him every good meaning concerning the monotheism and God's obedience.

>> In addition, a righteous man may start to have some bad manner, and become proud over believers because they are poor, and retreat from his initial state of righteousness, then because of his sins, Satan will have a plea against him and control him with his influence and suggestion, so he will deteriorate after being rightly guided.

This is in the Quran 91: 7-10​

وَنَفْسٍ وَمَا سَوَّاهَا . فَأَلْهَمَهَا فُجُورَهَا وَتَقْوَاهَا . قَدْ أَفْلَحَ مَن زَكَّاهَا . وَقَدْ خَابَ مَن دَسَّاهَا​

The explanation:
(And [I swear by] the soul and [the body] that shaped it!
And inspired into it its lewdness and its god-fearing.

He will be successful, who purifies it.
And he will be disappointed, who corrupts it.)

It means: the body inspired into the soul its lewdness and its god-fearing: that is by the friendship and accompanying.
​

• Therefore, man learns the good manner from the righteous people, and learns or adapts the bad manner from the evildoing people --- that is by the way of the companionship and friendship: if he accompanies the righteous, he will be righteous like them; and in case he accompanies the evil, he will be evil like them. The evil friend [and the party of the atheist] is very dangerous; this is in the ayat 25: 27-29

وَيَوْمَ يَعَضُّ الظَّالِمُ عَلَى يَدَيْهِ يَقُولُ يَا لَيْتَنِي اتَّخَذْتُ مَعَ الرَّسُولِ سَبِيلًا . يَا وَيْلَتَى لَيْتَنِي لَمْ أَتَّخِذْ فُلَانًا خَلِيلًا . لَقَدْ أَضَلَّنِي عَنِ الذِّكْرِ بَعْدَ إِذْ جَاءنِي وَكَانَ الشَّيْطَانُ لِلْإِنسَانِ خَذُولًا​

The explanation:
(The day when the wrong-doer will bite at his hands; he will say: "Would that I had followed the messenger, taking with him a way [to guidance.]"

"Alas for me! Would that I had never taken 'that man' for friend!"

"He ['that man'] indeed misguided me away from the admonition [: the Quran] even after [Mohammed] had brought it to me [from his Lord, and Satan deceived me]; for Satan was ever man deserter.")

'That man' indicates one of his chiefs [and friends] who encouraged him to disbelieve and oppose the messenger.

So if anyone likes to get nearer to God Most Gracious, then he has to:
1- improve and make better his manner and conduct and purify his heart and conscience,
2- dissociate himself from his wicked and disbelieving friends,
3- accompany the righteous people: but not the associaters or idolaters.

Concerning what you mentioned of the crimes committed in the Islamic countries; such criminals are everywhere in every community; they have no relation to Moses, Jesus, Mohammed or to God even.


eanassir
http://man-after-death.741.com​