Scenario: Thirty-ninth Parliament

[FiveParadox]

Forum Decorum

Please leave your rhetoric at the door.

This is a scenario, only.

I am asking people to vote on which solution they would support; a House guaranteed to dissolve right after the Speech from the Throne, and to reselect the Government "from scratch," so to speak, or a House that could at least attempt to get something done.

 

[Colpy]

Re: Forum Decorum

Please leave your rhetoric at the door.

This is a scenario, only.

I am asking people to vote on which solution they would support; a House guaranteed to dissolve right after the Speech from the Throne, and to reselect the Government "from scratch," so to speak, or a House that could at least attempt to get something done.

And I gave you the answer.

The precedent is obvious. Martin, if he can gain the support of the NDP, can rule, but only at the pleasure of the NDP.

He will do anything to retain power, or haven't you noticed?

to prevent this scenario from becoming reality, we need to give the Conservatives a majority.

And, you forget one thing. If Martin (or Harper, whomever) immediately looses the confidence of the House, the correct thing for the GG to do is to ask the Leader of the Opposition if they can build a government, especially if that person controls the most seats in the House.

In the King-Byng Thing, King was WRONG!

 

[FiveParadox]

Governor General

The Prime Minister can recommend whatever he wishes; if he resigns of his own will, then yes, in this situation, the Conservatives would take power; however, one must keep in mind that this kind of situation has only occurred once.

It might be interesting to see what kinds of "creative" solutions a Governor General could come up with, eh?

 

[paulmartin]

Breakthrough2006, rather than simply opposing everything that I say, perhaps you should offer an argument with some substance to support your opinion.

Do you think the SEC review of complaints of insider trading will damage the Grits?

Yes, as the NDP finance critic says, the review shows the issue is “significant” 73%
No, the damage has already been done by the RCMP criminal investigation 15%
There’s no proof the Liberals did anything wrong 11%


Total Votes for this Question: 999
http://www.ottawasun.com/News/poll_results.html

 

[FiveParadox]

An interesting contribution, paulmartin, thank you.

I am surprised that simply because a review has been called, though, that the Liberals would be damaged. Apparently the "innocent until proven guilty" premise does not apply, lol.

 

[Colpy]

Re: Governor General

The Prime Minister can recommend whatever he wishes; if he resigns of his own will, then yes, in this situation, the Conservatives would take power; however, one must keep in mind that this kind of situation has only occurred once.

It might be interesting to see what kinds of "creative" solutions a Governor General could come up with, eh?

Absolutely!

When Byng refused to disolve Parliament for King, the Liberals used that as the major election issue, and won handily.........but Parliament had NOT been disolved until after the Conservatives lost a vote of non-confidence.........so the precedent is that the GG MAY reject a PM's call to disolve the House.

I actually think the GG should reject the call if the Opposition has the most seats......especially if there has been an election recently, say within a year or eighteen months.

It is going to be an interesting couple of months.

Edited to say:

I suspect Michelle Jean would be horrified at the prospect of a Conservative gov't, and will do whatever Paul Martin wants her to do.

 

[FiveParadox]

Quite True

It certainly is going to be interesting.

Consider this, however: If the Governor General was informed by the party leaders of the NDP and the Liberals, and knew that the same number of Bloc Québecois members who had supported the Liberal Government would oppose the Conservative Prime Minister — knowing this, that the Conservatives would be defeated immediately upon the Speech from the Throne, could we really expect her to still appoint a Conservative PM?

 

[Colpy]

Re: Quite True

It certainly is going to be interesting.

Consider this, however: If the Governor General was informed by the party leaders of the NDP and the Liberals, and knew that the same number of Bloc Québecois members who had supported the Liberal Government would oppose the Conservative Prime Minister — knowing this, that the Conservatives would be defeated immediately upon the Speech from the Throne, could we really expect her to still appoint a Conservative PM?

Yes.

If the CPC had the largest number of seats in the house, and especially if a NDP/Liberal coalition had fallen to a vote of non-confidence, and there had just been an election.

The G-G can not assume that the CPC could not hold a government, that is NOT for her to decide, only the House can deny them a chance to govern, IMHO.

 

[FiveParadox]

Agreement in Principle

I suppose that does make sense.

And then if the Conservative Government in this scenario were to be defeated, then what would be the appropriate course of action for Her Excellency to take?

I have to get off the computer now, I'll be back later tonight to continue this most interesting and compelling discussion.

 

[Colpy]

Re: Agreement in Principle

I suppose that does make sense.

And then if the Conservative Government in this scenario were to be defeated, then what would be the appropriate course of action for Her Excellency to take?

I have to get off the computer now, I'll be back later tonight to continue this most interesting and compelling discussion.

If both the Liberal/NDP coalition, and the CPC have had their kick at the can, and have both lost the confidence of the House, then we must go to an election (sigh).

The problem with minorities is election after election. After awhile, people start to tune out altogether.

Except for we political junkies.

 

[Hank C]

The winner of the most seats in parliment should form the government, period. None of this coalition to overthrow the government....let the best party win.

and yes, the GG is not even chosen democratically...it is obviously a PMs partisan choice.....the least we could do is have the GG voted on in the house......and to take it a step futher Canada should become a Republic....cmon Canada grow some balls.

 

[FiveParadox]

If it is obvious that the party with the most seats in the House of Commons does not hold confidence, then such a party should have no right to govern; it doesn't matter whether or not they have the most seats, in my opinion.

It is the responsibility of the Governor General of Canada to select the person who would be the most likely to command the confidence of the House of Commons — not the single-party popular vote. If more than one party can work together, and represent more voices than would a single party, then I would assert that doing so would be the proper course of action.

 

[Hank C]

I dont like the role of the GG simply because she is chosen undemocraticaly and on partisan basis...like I said the head of state should be put through a vote in the house at least, and there should be more nominees.

 

[Breakthrough2006]

It is not a coincidence that this topic would come up after all the polls put the CPC in minority victory territory.

What Five is suggesting is quite frankly unethical. Given the Lib/NDP past together, I would not put this by them as this is the only way the NDP will ever have a chance to govern and the Liberals will desperately hang onto power at all costs as the alternative will mean prison time for some of thier faithful.

This whole topic is silly in that the Bloc after likely winning close to every single seat in Quebec would never want another election and with the Liberals lucky to win 110 seats and the NDP very lucky to win 25 seats, this whole discussion is mute as the scenarios being discussed are likely never going to happen.

Having said that, it is not at all surprising to me that even though the CPC could win an election fair and square, 75% of the members on this board would have no problem taking their victory away from them and return the most corrupt government in the history of Canada back into power for another theft-fest at the expense of all of us.

Some of you really need to develop some ethics and morals to live by.

If the tables were turned and the Liberals won a minority government and the CPC had the opportunity to pull this sham, I would NEVER support the CPC in that venture. No matter how much I despise the Liberals.

 

[the caracal kid]

"Some of you really need to develop some ethics and morals to live by."

social ethics and morals are relative. i would say everybody has developed their morals and ethics, even if they differ from yours.

If there is a solid precident for allowing the current PM first attempt at creating a government, then we should honour said precident. The time to change the precident is while the house is sitting via legislation, not immediately following an election. Agree with it or not, it is the way things are now. If it really does not work, ask your representative to put forth a bill to change it once the new government sits.

Or just overthrow the government.

 

[Breakthrough2006]

That's all very nice but the precident is to allow the winning party to govern. Even if it is only a minority.

I'm glad that we both agree that precident should be followed.

 

[FiveParadox]

If the winning party would be defeated immediately, and the governing party has a realistic opportunity to secure the confidence of the House of Commons, then I would rather have stability on Parliament Hill than be plunged into a situation where the Government wouldn't have supply.

 

[Breakthrough2006]

Would that also include the Conservatives taking over the government if they win less seats than the Liberals?

 

[FiveParadox]

If the Conservatives were the governing party at the time that the Liberals received a plurality, and the Conservative Government could secure the confidence of the House of Commons before the appointment of a new Prime Minister, then by all means — such is the system of responsible Government in Canada, a principle for which I am an advocate.

You must remember, that in either situation, only the standing Government has the opportunity to secure confidence notwithstanding any pluralities in the House of Commons. The Conservatives would not have the opportunity to govern notwithstanding a Liberal plurality in the upcoming Parliament because the Conservative Party is not the Government.

 

[Finder]

*crosses his fingers*
Well I hope either the CPC or the Liberals get hit hard by FPTP this election and get "unlucky" I feel the CPC has been very close to making it actual policy to move for a mixed system. But I think a good swift kick to the mid section would help them make up there mind. Of course watching the Liberals go down to a handful of seats like the PC's in the 90's would be fun too. =-D

My prediction is that it will be a Liberal-NDP minority. I'm not sure if it will be enough to hold the balance of power though.