Russia's Fading From Glory

Curiosity

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http://www.boston.com/news/world/europe/articles/2006/10/15/once_mighty_russia_fades_to_a_dying_pop
The great nation who gave us athletes, the arts, writers, music, ballet and folk dancing..... proves once again to reduce a population to "sameness" rather than celebrating "differences" will kill all the creativity which keeps humans alive, well and determined to uplift their country to greatness. Communism kills in many ways, even without guns and violence. They have killed the Russian spirit -even of the young.

Once-mighty Russia fades to a dying population

By Kim Murphy, Los Angeles Times | October 15, 2006 / Boston Globe publisher
KSTINOVO, Russia -- Welcome to Kstinovo, population 1 .
Antonina Makarova, 78, spends her days watching news and soap operas in her peeling wooden dacha, the only inhabited structure in two lanes of sagging cottages that once were a village. Her nearest neighbor, 80-year-old Maria Belkova, lives in adjacent Sosnovitsy, population 2. But Belkova can't hear anymore, and all in all, Makarova finds the television better company.
``All the houses here were filled with people. There was a cheese factory. But now everyone else has died. God has taken care of them, and he's still making me suffer," Makarova said. ``Even the thieves have disappeared."
The Tver region, along the upper reaches of the Volga River 130 miles north of Moscow, is dotted with more than 1,400 villages such as Kstinovo marked ``nezhiloye" -- depopulated. Since 1989, the number of people here has shrunk by about 250,000 to about 1.4 million, with deaths outnumbering births more than 2 to 1.
The Tver region is far from unusual in this country.
Russia is the only major industrial nation that is losing population. Its people are succumbing to one of the world's fastest-growing AIDS epidemics, resurgent tuberculosis, rampant cardiovascular disease, alcohol and drug abuse, smoking, suicide, and the lethal effects of unchecked industrial pollution.
In addition, abortions outpaced births last year by more than 100,000. An estimated 10 million Russians of reproductive age are sterile because of botched abortions or poor health. The public healthcare system is collapsing. And many parents in more prosperous urban areas say they can't afford homes large enough for the number of children they would like to have.
The former Soviet Union, with about 300 million people, was the world's third-most populous country, behind China and India. Slightly more than half of its citizens lived in Russia. The country has lost the equivalent of a city of 700,000 people every year since the collapse of the Soviet Union in 1991, only partially offset by an influx of people from other former Soviet republics. A country that sprawls across one-eighth of the globe is now home to 142 million people.
The losses have been disproportionately male. At the height of the power of the Soviet Union, its people lived almost as long as Americans. But now, the average Russian man can expect to live about 59 years, 16 years less than an American man and 14 less than a Russian woman.
Sergei Mironov, chairman of the upper house of Russia's parliament, said last year that if the trend didn't change, the population would fall to 52 million by 2080. ``There will no longer be a great Russia," he said. ``It will be torn apart piece by piece, and finally cease to exist."
That may be an overstatement, but there are serious questions about whether Russia will be able to hold on to its far eastern lands along the border with China over the next century or field an army, let alone a workforce to support the ill and the elderly.
Russian officials, flush with revenue from record prices for the country's oil exports, have started to respond. President Vladimir V. Putin pledged payments this year of $111 a month to mothers who choose to have a second child, plus a nest egg of $9,260 to be used for education, a mortgage, or pensions. He also called for renewed efforts to attract ethnic Russians living in the ex-Soviet republics.
``Russia has a huge territory, the largest territory in the world," Putin said. ``If the situation remains unchanged, there will simply be no one to protect it."
The economic earthquake of Russia's transition from communism to capitalism plunged tens of millions into poverty overnight and changed the value systems upon which many had planned their lives.
A small minority, mostly in urban centers such as Moscow and St. Petersburg, were able to exploit the absence of rules in the chaotic 1990s to become fabulously wealthy. But such a profound social transition, coming at the end of a century of war, revolution, and ruthless social experimentation, condemned a great many more to a deep malaise.
Those who lost out have proved susceptible to drinking, smoking, and other habits that killed millions of Russians even in the best of times. In more extreme cases, they kill themselves.
Russia's suicide rate, at about 36 per 100,000 people, is second only to that of Lithuania, according to the Serbsky National Research Center for Social and Forensic Psychiatry. In some remote areas of Russia, the rate exceeds 100 per 100,000.
Some say the cause of Russia's problems can be found in communism's willful destruction of generations of the country's most capable and adaptable people.
``Seventy-five years of Bolshevik life in this country led to the formation of a tribe of people which was cultivated to listen to orders, and fulfill them," said Alexander Gorelik, a St. Petersburg physician. Stalinism, he said, aimed for ``the planned and gradual physical destruction of the most moral, the most creative group of the population."
``There is such a thing as a will for life," he said. ``And the whole trouble is that the Russian public in general, and especially the male population, has a big deficiency in this area."
Russia has a long history of alcohol abuse. Soviet President Mikhail S. Gorbachev tried to tackle the problem 20 years ago by limiting the production and distribution of liquor. When he did, male life expectancy increased three years.
But massive drinking resumed when the controls were eased. The average Russian drinks 5 gallons of pure alcohol a year, causing an estimated 900,000 deaths over the past decade through acute alcohol poisoning, fights, and accidents, according to figures released by Tatyana Yakovleva, head of the Russian parliament's healthcare committee, at a recent conference in Moscow. Others have permanent brain damage or liver damage from homemade alcohol.
It has been five years since Svetlana Glukhova was diagnosed as HIV-positive, but she says she still has no idea whether she needs drug therapy. Doctors at the only AIDS center in her city do not have the necessary laboratory equipment to decide that.
She does know that even when she took her first AIDS test, the sores on the fingers she once used to inject heroin already were failing to heal.
The United Nations says Russia has the worst AIDS problem in Europe, fueled by ``extraordinarily large numbers of young people who inject drugs." But the disease has spread widely through the population, and more than half of all new cases result from heterosexual intercourse. Officially, 340,000 Russians are infected with HIV or AIDS, but the UN says the number could easily be four to 10 times higher.
Compounding the problem, most Russian victims are young. The prevalence of the illness among young people threatens to add to Russia's demographic meltdown by killing them before they can bring a new generation into the world.
 

Chukcha

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The United Nations says Russia has the worst AIDS problem in Europe, fueled by ``extraordinarily large numbers of young people who inject drugs."
During communism there was "no sex", "no drugs" policy in Russia, people would be shamed if they kissed in public, they had a lot of "wrong" policies back then
 

Finder

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Chukcha

Chukcha, not saying I support the soviet system, because I don't. But I also don't like misinformation. Can you please post a link to the section of soviet law which states the above mentioned is illegal activities?

Thank you.
 

Chukcha

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Chukcha, not saying I support the soviet system, because I don't. But I also don't like misinformation. Can you please post a link to the section of soviet law which states the above mentioned is illegal activities?

Thank you.
I will definitely look for it for you, but I believe you can search for it on Google, but I will I promise.
 

Chukcha

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Sep 19, 2006
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Chukcha, not saying I support the soviet system, because I don't. But I also don't like misinformation. Can you please post a link to the section of soviet law which states the above mentioned is illegal activities?

Thank you.
For now I can just tell you a movie in English it would be "Moscow doesn't believe in tears" - sorry, I am not sure if you can get it with english translation, but if you ask any russian they will know, in russian it's "Москва слезам не верит", there was a scene, where a couple was hugging and kissing on the street and some guys passed by and just stopped them saying "Stop it, don't you dare kiss in public or I will call the police" - true story:D
 

Finder

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Well my soviet law is not the best, since I only flipped and thumbed by most of it and found little to be of any interest, mostly Marxist-Socialist-Russian traditions mixed together. None of which were that odd. Really the only way I could find a law like that is if I might look back into the some relics of Czarist regional laws of the old Russian Orthadox ways.

BTW I can google tons of old prapaganda, I'd rather know what sections you are talking about since you bring it up you can also prove it... Or do you admit you are spreading propaganda and misinformation?

Funny how we can hate a system, people or a religion so much and we end up turning into what we hate in the end?!
 

Chukcha

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BTW I can google tons of old prapaganda, I'd rather know what sections you are talking about since you bring it up you can also prove it... Or do you admit you are spreading propaganda and misinformation?
Oh, is that what you're actually asking :D :D :D I don't think there was a law as such, but you could get struck on the street by some fanatic communist, and you could get to police for that. A lot of things in Russia don't make sense, don't try to find too much in the law books, as there isn't such thing as "the law" there :D . But watch that movie if you wish, and you will know I am not making that up. Or even ask some russian about that movie and that scene I told you, they will approve it.

Funny how we can hate a system, people or a religion so much and we end up turning into what we hate in the end?!
I don't understand what you mean?
 

Finder

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Never heard of the movie, but I'm not surprised. We miss out on a lot of good European and Eastern European movies. But really anyone who lived in the soviet union can atest for the fact that movies, shows, may not always tell the truth.

"During communism there was "no sex", "no drugs" policy in Russia, people would be shamed if they kissed in public, they had a lot of "wrong" policies back then"

I just thik this statement is extremely one sided and is largely opinionated. It's like how the old soviet Propagandists used to say "There is no poverty or un-employement in the soviet union" Yeah, in a sence it's a half truth. There may have been little poverty as we know it but the magority of the people lived below what we call the poverty line while the small minority of high ups in the party lived way beyound the poverty line like the "capitalists" in the west. There may have been no um-employment but how much freedom was there in chosing your job, how much under employment was there, inactivity and lack of productivity.

no sex? I don't ever remember seeing a law or a policy against sex between a man and a women. Perhaps lewed acts in puplic but you have that in almost every nation even Canada!!!! No drugs, as far as I know the soviet union had a very big problem with vodka drinkers, to the point in the 80's where a large percent of the population was pretty much drunk all the time. However I do not remember very long times in soviet history were there was prohabition. BTW both Canada and the USA has had that policy in the past. As for kissing in public, well old conservative people will always be upset with that no matter what country you are in but I don't remember seeing any laws, in the soviet books against such acts.

In the end perhaps Lewd behavior was not respected in the Soviet Union, but you'd find it common place in any nation at the time and even today in more conservative nations.
 

Finder

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Well there are radical conservatives in every nation, and that fanatical commie as you point out, like many fanatics don't understand what they profess as the truth as Marx and englas did not teach of social conservative but extreme social liberation of the family. More of a hippy life style (which the soviet union didn't profess anyhow).

Though the communist party of the Soviet Union was a (social) conservative tool in its last 50-70 years, the laws rarely reflected this, as most of the laws of the soviet union were generally progressive in theory.
 

Chukcha

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Sep 19, 2006
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"During communism there was "no sex", "no drugs" policy in Russia, people would be shamed if they kissed in public, they had a lot of "wrong" policies back then"

I just thik this statement is extremely one sided and is largely opinionated. It's like how the old soviet Propagandists used to say "There is no poverty or un-employement in the soviet union" Yeah, in a sence it's a half truth.
The way I tried to put it was inside-out opinion.)
There may have been no um-employment but how much freedom was there in chosing your job, how much under employment was there, inactivity and lack of productivity.
The was a lot of employment, for example, my mum was a qualified accountant, with high degree and a brilliant pair of brains and she was receving 100 rubles a month in comparison to a garbage collector who received 90 rubles a month, and this amount was just enough to scrape you through the month, considering you had only one child. Because EVERYONE should be equal :-|| There was a slavery, I would say, not employment.:-\

no sex? I don't ever remember seeing a law or a policy against sex between a man and a women. Perhaps lewed acts in puplic but you have that in almost every nation even Canada!!!!
No, no - "No Sex" was soviet slogan:D
No drugs, as far as I know the soviet union had a very big problem with vodka drinkers, to the point in the 80's where a large percent of the population was pretty much drunk all the time. However I do not remember very long times in soviet history were there was prohabition.
It used to be called Сухой Закон - meaning Dry Law. However, the law was never obeyed, not any law actually, only at those times when people used to go to jail for things like that, they were making those "crimes" like sex, for example:D, in quite places.
In the end perhaps Lewd behavior was not respected in the Soviet Union, but you'd find it common place in any nation at the time and even today in more conservative nations.
It was well presented how communism was in russia, actually, we didin't get to comminism, we were continually building our souls towards it, khm,khm , and all this crap was coming out of high powered communists, not ordinary people, who lived behind a fensed border with no way out and zipped up lips, you may find it strange though;)
 
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Chukcha

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most of the laws of the soviet union were generally progressive in theory.
Progressive in what way, by taking the economy so down, that the people were striving for food eventually? Or was it progressive in a way that the people were used like robots, slaves, and couldn't do much about it. I will try to illustrate it: first you're born, then (if you're unlucky, which a lot of kids were, not to have grandparents) you go to childcare 5 days and 5 nights a week, then you go to school, on school holidays you're sent to scouts, mostly every year for 3 months (again, if someone proposes to look after you during those holidays, you're lucky), then you go to UNI, study for about 6 years, maximum age to enter was 35 I believ, so if you failed and had to reapply and delayed your study, you wouldn't be able to succeed, so you'd become a sales assistant or garbage collector, or something similar, if you were successfull, you must go to work where they send you to, you could leak some big boss's ass to get you the job in a somewhat normal place, but most likely you'd be working where they tell you, and receiving the minimum pay. Going on holidays? Black sea, was very hard to get vouchers, so you couldn't go there every year, I remember being there twice in my whole life in Russia. There was no way you could go overseas, even Latvia or Estonia was almost impossible to go to.So this is your life, do you like it?
P.S. even till nowdays, If you're male you MUST go to army when you're 18 where they send you to, be it Chechnya, or Siberia. Things are changing slowly over there, but sometimes it feels like it will never change.
 
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Finder

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You seem to have missed my point completely as you do not seem to understand what "under-employment" means

"The was a lot of employment, for example, my mum was a qualified accountant, with high degree and a brilliant pair of brains and she was receving 100 rubles a month in comparison to a garbage collector who received 90 rubles a month, and this amount was just enough to scrape you through the month, considering you had only one child. Because EVERYONE should be equal :-|| There was a slavery, I would say, not employment.:-\"

Basically thats it.


As for it's laws they were usually Progressive in a sence if you have ever read the old Czarists laws Woman had few rights, children had fewer and well Workers had even less. Soviet law may not be as good as Western laws but were a hella-lot better then the old Czarist ones. Plus the constituion of the soviet union protected in theory the rights of minorities, sex's, workers and the right to a job. In theory it was alright, but in practice it wasn't so good. Also really all the constitutions of the Soviet union republics and the war saw pact states were pretty much worth the paper they were written on.

constitution of the soviet union 1977
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1977_Soviet_Constitution
 

Finder

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Anyhow I may not believe pure socialism works or pure capitalism for that matter, but you must see the difference between socialism on paper and the soviet communist state in practice. Two very different things. I'd argue the Soviet constitution of 1977 was not worth the paper it was written on. Here's a piece of it here.

Chapter 6: CITIZENSHIP OF THE USSR / EQUALITY OF CITIZENS' RIGHTS

Article 33. Uniform federal citizenship is established for the USSR. Every citizen of a Union Republic is a citizen of the USSR.
The grounds and procedure for acquiring or forfeiting Soviet citizenship are defined by the Law on Citizenship of the USSR. When abroad, citizens of the USSR enjoy the protection and assistance of the Soviet state. Article 34. Citizens of the USSR are equal before the law, without distinction of origin, social or property status, race or nationality, sex, education, language, attitude to religion, type and nature of occupation, domicile, or other status.
The equal rights of citizens of the USSR are guaranteed in all fields of economic, political, social, and cultural life. Article 35. Women and men have equal rights in the USSR.
Exercise of these rights is ensured by according women equal access with men to education and vocational and professional training, equal opportunities in employment, remuneration, and promotion, and in social and political, and cultural activity, and by special labour and health protection measures for women; by providing conditions enabling mothers to work; by legal protection, and material and moral support for mothers and children, including paid leaves and other benefits for expectant mothers and mothers, and gradual reduction of working time for mothers with small children. Article 36. Citizens of the USSR of different races and nationalities have equal rights.
Exercise of these rights is ensured by a policy of all-round development and drawing together of all the nations and nationalities of the USSR, by educating citizens in the spirit of Soviet patriotism and socialist internationalism, and by the possibility to use their native language and the languages of other peoples in the USSR. Any direct or indirect limitation of the rights of citizens or establishment of direct or indirect privileges on grounds of race or nationality, and any advocacy of racial or national exclusiveness, hostility, or contempt, are punishable by law. Article 37. Citizens of other countries and stateless persons in the USSR are guaranteed the rights and freedoms provided by law, including the right to apply to a court and other state bodies for the protection of their personal, property, family, and other rights.
Citizens of other countries and stateless persons, when in the USSR, are obliged to respect the Constitution of the USSR and observe Soviet laws. Article 38. The USSR grants the right of asylum to foreigners persecuted for defending the interests of the working people and the cause of peace, or for participation in the revolutionary and national-liberation movement, or for progressive social and political, scientific, or other creative activity.

Chapter 7: THE BASIC RIGHTS, FREEDOMS, AND DUTIES OF CITIZENS OF THE USSR

Article 39. Citizens of the USSR enjoy in full the social, economic, political and personal rights and freedoms proclaimed and guaranteed by the Constitution of the USSR and by Soviet laws. The socialist system ensures enlargement of the rights and freedoms of citizens and continuous improvement of their living standards as social, economic, and cultural development programmes are fulfilled.
Enjoyment by citizens of their rights and freedoms must not be to the detriment of the interests of society or the state, or infringe the rights of other citizens. Article 40. Citizens of the USSR have the right to work (that is, to guaranteed employment and pay in accordance wit the quantity and quality of their work, and not below the state-established minimum), including the right to choose their trade or profession, type of job and work in accordance with their inclinations, abilities, training and education, with due account of the needs of society.
This right is ensured by the socialist economic system, steady growth of the productive forces, free vocational and professional training, improvement of skills, training in new trades or professions, and development of the systems of vocational guidance and job placement. Article 41. Citizens of the USSR have the right to rest and leisure.
This right is ensured by the establishment of a working week not exceeding 41 hours, for workers and other employees, a shorter working day in a number of trades and industries, and shorter hours for night work; by the provision of paid annual holidays, weekly days of rest, extension of the network of cultural, educational, and health-building institutions, and the development on a mass scale of sport, physical culture, and camping and tourism; by the provision of neighborhood recreational facilities, and of other opportunities for rational use of free time. The length of collective farmers' working and leisure time is established by their collective farms. Article 42. Citizens of the USSR have the right to health protection.
This right is ensured by free, qualified medical care provided by state health institutions; by extension of the network of therapeutic and health-building institutions; by the development and improvement of safety and hygiene in industry; by carrying out broad prophylactic measures; by measures to improve the environment; by special care for the health of the rising generation, including prohibition of child labour, excluding the work done by children as part of the school curriculum; and by developing research to prevent and reduce the incidence of disease and ensure citizens a long and active life. Article 43. Citizens of the USSR have the right to maintenance in old age, in sickness, and in the event of complete or partial disability or loss of the breadwinner.
The right is guaranteed by social insurance of workers and other employees and collective farmers; by allowances for temporary disability; by the provision by the state or by collective farms of retirement pensions, disability pensions, and pensions for loss of the breadwinner; by providing employment for the partially disabled; by care for the elderly and the disabled; and by other forms of social security. Article 44. Citizens of the USSR have the rights to housing.
This right is ensured by the development and upkeep of state and socially-owned housing; by assistance for co-operative and individual house building; by fair distribution, under public control, of the housing that becomes available through fulfilment of the programme of building well-appointed dwellings, and by low rents and low charges for utility services. Citizens of the USSR shall take good care of the housing allocated to them. Article 45. Citizens of the USSR have the right to education.
This right is ensured by free provision of all forms of education, by the institution of universal, compulsory secondary education, and broad development of vocational, specialised secondary, and higher education, in which instruction is oriented toward practical activity and production; by the development of extramural, correspondence and evening courses, by the provision of state scholarships and grants and privileges for students; by the free issue of school textbooks; by the opportunity to attend a school where teaching is in the native language; and by the provision of facilities for self-education. Article 46. Citizens of the USSR have the right to enjoy cultural benefits.
This rights is ensured by broad access to the cultural treasures of their own land and of the world that are preserved in state and other public collections; by the development and fair distribution of cultural and educational institutions throughout the country; by developing television and radio broadcasting and the publishing of books, newspapers and periodicals, and by extending the free library service; and by expanding cultural exchanges with other countries. Article 47. Citizens of the USSR, in accordance with the aims of building communism, are guaranteed freedom of scientific, technical, and artistic work. This freedom is ensured by broadening scientific research, encouraging invention and innovation, and developing literature and the arts. THe state provides the necessary material conditions for this and support for voluntary societies and unions of workers in the arts, organises introduction of inventions and innovations in production and other spheres of activity.
The rights of authors, inventors and innovators are protected by the state. Article 48. Citizens of the USSR have the right to take part in the management and administration of state and public affairs and in the discussion and adoption of laws and measures of All-Union and local significance.
This right is ensured by the opportunity to vote and to be elected to Soviets of People's Deputies and other elective state bodies, to take part in nationwide discussions and referendums, in people's control, in the work of state bodies, public organisations, and local community groups, and in meetings at places of work or residence. Article 49. Every citizen of the USSR has the right to submit proposals to state bodies and public organisations for improving their activity, and to criticise shortcomings in their work.
Officials are obliged, within established time-limits, to examine citizens' proposals and requests, to reply to them, and to take appropriate action. Persecution for criticism is prohibited. Persons guilty of such persecution shall be called to account. Article 50. In accordance with the interests of the people and in order to strengthen and develop the socialist system, citizens of the USSR are guaranteed freedom of speech, of the press, and of assembly, meetings, street processions and demonstrations.
Exercise of these political freedoms is ensured by putting public buildings, streets and squares at the disposal of the working people and their organisations, by broad dissemination of information, and by the opportunity to use the press, television, and radio. Article 51. In accordance with the aims of building communism, citizens of the USSR have the right to associate in public organisations that promote their political activity and initiative and satisfaction of their various interests.
Public organisations are guaranteed conditions for successfully performing the functions defined in their rules. Article 52. Citizens of the USSR are guaranteed freedom of conscience, that is, the right to profess or not to profess any religion, and to conduct religious worship or atheistic propaganda. Incitement of hostility or hatred on religious grounds is prohibited.
In the USSR, the church is separated from the state, and the school from the church. Article 53. The family enjoys the protection of the state.
Marriage is based on the free consent of the woman and the man; the spouses are completely equal in their family relations. The state helps the family by providing and developing a broad system of childcare institutions, by organising and improving communal services and public catering, by paying grants on the birth of a child, by providing children's allowances and benefits for large families, and other forms of family allowances and assistance. Article 54. Citizens of the USSR are guaranteed inviolability of the person. No one may be arrested except by a court decision or on the warrant of a procurator.
Article 55. Citizens of the USSR are guaranteed inviolability of the home. No one may, without lawful grounds, enter a home against the will of those residing in it.
Article 56. The privacy of citizens, and of their correspondence, telephone conversations, and telegraphic communications is protected by law.
Article 57. Respect for the individual and protection of the rights and freedoms of citizens are the duty of all state bodies, public organisations, and officials.
Citizens of the USSR have the right to protection by the courts against encroachments on their honour and reputation, life and health, and personal freedom and property. Article 58. Citizens of the USSR have the right to lodge a complaint against the actions of officials, state bodies and public bodies. Complaints shall be examined according to the procedure and within the time-limit established by law.
Actions by officials that contravene the law or exceed their powers, and infringe the rights of citizens, may be appealed against in a court in the manner prescribed by law. Citizens of the USSR have the right to compensation for damage resulting from unlawful actions by state organisations and public organisations, or by officials in the performance of their duties. Article 59. Citizens' exercise of their rights and freedoms is inseparable from the performance of their duties and obligations.
Citizens of the USSR are obliged to observe the Constitution of the USSR and Soviet laws, comply with the standards of socialist conduct, and uphold the honour and dignity of Soviet citizenship. Article 60. It is the duty of, and matter of honour for, every able-bodied citizen of the USSR to work conscientiously in his chosen, socially useful occupation, and strictly to observe labour discipline. Evasion of socially useful work is incompatible with the principles of socialist society.
Article 61. Citizens of the USSR are obliged to preserve and protect socialist property. It is the duty of a citizen of the USSR to combat misappropriation and squandering of state and socially-owned property and to make thrifty use of the people's wealth.
Persons encroaching in any way on socialist property shall be punished according to the law. Article 62. Citizens of the USSR are obliged to safeguard the interests of the Soviet state, and to enhance its power and prestige.
Defence of the Socialist Motherland is the sacred duty of every citizen of the USSR. Betrayal of the Motherland is the gravest of crimes against the people. Article 63. Military service in the ranks of the Armed Forces of the USSR is an honorable duty of Soviet citizens.
Article 64. It is the duty of every citizen of the USSR to respect the national dignity of other citizens, and to strengthen friendship of the nations and nationalities of the multinational Soviet state.

 

cortex

Electoral Member
Aug 3, 2006
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hopelessly entagled
Yeah you are right !

Pre-revolution pre-industrial czarist Russia was SOOO.... much better.
I think they had a name for that kind of society--

Fuedal.

Well at least now you can kiss in public--and more importantly the mob and foriegn capitalists can go even further and actually rape you ---in public ,

Yeah much better.
 

Chukcha

Electoral Member
Sep 19, 2006
215
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You seem to have missed my point completely as you do not seem to understand what "under-employment" means

"The was a lot of employment, for example, my mum was a qualified accountant, with high degree and a brilliant pair of brains and she was receving 100 rubles a month in comparison to a garbage collector who received 90 rubles a month, and this amount was just enough to scrape you through the month, considering you had only one child. Because EVERYONE should be equal | There was a slavery, I would say, not employment.:-\"

Basically thats it.
ok, i missed your point, i thought you were on the opposing side.
 
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Vereya

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Apr 20, 2006
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Sad as it is, the Russian spirit is indeed dead, but I wouldn't blame it all on socialism. What is going on in Russia right now, is even worse. The population is rapidly decreasing, higher education is becoming unattainable even for most middle class. Middle class in itself is a very small part of the population. About a year ago the government abolished all the benefits for the elderly and disabled people, replacing the benefits with a financial payment, that is so small that it doesn't cover at least one of the privileges. And most people keep quiet about it. And when someone does object, the only answer is that the problem is that the governments of the subjets of the Federation did everything wrong, not the president or the government. Retired people, who have worked all their lives, receive such a small pension, that it is scarcely enough to pay the rent. And at the same time we have lots of millionaires and Moscow is the most expensive city in the world. Some time ago I heard some government official talking on the radio, he was very proud that our prices have reached the world level. When will our salaries, I wonder?
The spirit of the nation is broken, and I really doubt that it will ever rise again, because the people are kept busy with just strggling to survive from day to day, and in the rest of the time it is just - vodka, vodka, vodka. :mad:
 

Chukcha

Electoral Member
Sep 19, 2006
215
1
18
The spirit of the nation is broken, and I really doubt that it will ever rise again, because the people are kept busy with just strggling to survive from day to day, and in the rest of the time it is just - vodka, vodka, vodka. :mad:
I would say, if the communism didn't kill that spirit it wouldn't be happening now, by equalising everyone, the smart and intelligent ones mixing with the careless and drunkers wasn't such a good idea. The spirit begun to die long time, at the Stalins times, when people could not speak up in their country nor get out of that country, life under Breznev was also very oppressive and corruptive, the intelligence is carved out for the sake of the drunkers, idlers and peasants. The great russian culture was sacrificed for these people who are now suffering too.
 

Vereya

Council Member
Apr 20, 2006
2,003
54
48
Tula
I would say, if the communism didn't kill that spirit it wouldn't be happening now, by equalising everyone, the smart and intelligent ones mixing with the careless and drunkers wasn't such a good idea. The spirit begun to die long time, at the Stalins times, when people could not speak up in their country nor get out of that country, life under Breznev was also very oppressive and corruptive, the intelligence is carved out for the sake of the drunkers, idlers and peasants. The great russian culture was sacrificed for these people who are now suffering too.

Yes, I totally agree with you in what you say about communism. I come from a Don Cossack family, that suffered quite a lot from the regime, so I get your meaning very well. But there is that one thing that I cannot understand, hard as I try. During the communist regime, the country progressed in a great big way. It rose from a quite feudal peasant country to one of the leading industrial countries of the world. Good education was available practically to everyone. Roads were build. Children were educated. Yes, they were educated according to the communist ideology, brainwashed, in a sense, but at least they were looked after and taught to study, work and be useful to the country. Right now, they are in the streets. Only the other day I was walking in the park and saw two seven-year-old kids asking people for cigarettes. And it is quite harmless, in fact, compared to drugs, crime and child prostitution.
My point is, the communist government at least did something for the people. Yes, their ideology was rotten, and their methods - well, we all know their methods now. But the kind of government that we have now, the kind of government we've been having since Gorbachev, is a crying shame. The goal of their policy seems to be the total elimination of the nation as such. It can be compared to genocide. And the brainwashing is there, too. A short time ago I was talking to some people I know, and one of them mentioned Stalin's regime, and the Gulag, and he said how glad he was that these times are over and that people are not dying anymore. Well, they are. If you look up statistics, people are now dying in greater quantities than at that time, without any Gulag. all this is very tragic and frightening, and I am sad for my country and for my people.