Royal Visit Delights Southern Albertans

Finder

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I'm not not the picky one

Her Majesty the Queen of Canada does not rule, she reigns.

To give a monarchy or anyone the the right to rule, Reign or even be a pure figure head because they were born between the right sheets, is just wrong. Libertarians on the Right and the Left can agree on this easily.

Well Anyhow I'll leave it at this since I don't think we wish to turn this into a pro-monarchy and anti-monarchy thread. I don't mind having a monarchy, whatever but to celebrate them and make a big fuss in a nation which supposdly believes in equility is somewhat of a hyprocracy. At least in Canada they are mainly a side show for our amusement.
 

FiveParadox

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Dec 20, 2005
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If this post was the first you had heard of that visit, then I don't think the country is making a "big fuss." However, for some citizens to choose to attend the events and celebrate the monarchy (if they choose to do so — nobody forced anyone to go see the Countess of Wessex), then that should be their prerogative.
 

Finder

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You wouldn't dare do that to a friend would you now?

lol.


We have to make a w.bench forum on why you like the monarchy Javert (Fiveparadox). Would be interesting to debate that.
 

Jay

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Jan 7, 2005
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Finder said:
To give a monarchy or anyone the the right to rule, Reign or even be a pure figure head because they were born between the right sheets, is just wrong.

You have to right to rule over what is yours....and leave what is yours to your posterity, Canada belongs to the Queen. Stealing is wrong though....
 

FiveParadox

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If one looks to the lawful fact of the matter, then yes, a majority of Canada "belongs" to Her Majesty the Queen of Canada. Of course, the administration of what is "hers", in terms of Canada, is left to the decisions of the Government of Canada. I don't see why so many members here would seem to think that there is any urgent danger to having Her Majesty continue as our head of state, or the embodiment of executive power in Canada — conventions leave such functions, under most circumstances, to the Government of Canada.
 

Finder

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Because everything logical points to the fact that the monarchy has out lived it's use, both as rulers and in a social aspect. We do not need this ultra conservative/religious throw back to the medieval times.

Personally I have no clue to why you would support the monarchy, usually it is the Conservative protestant religious types and delusional romantics who care about them. As to support them is to agree with the fact that you believe some are just born better then others and the right to rule is threw blood. Also to subject oneself to these rulers on the only merit of being born between the right sheets. What logic is there in this. Also to submit oneself to believing that God chose these people to rule us! I think not. Monarchy is against any rational thought.

Lucky enough for the monarchy in Canada most poeple tend to ignore them as Irrelevant.
 

I think not

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Apr 12, 2005
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You know I have to agree with Finder on this whole monarchy thingy. A stroke of luck should not give you any rights to rule, reign or govern. That stroke of luck could just as easily ended up on a wall.
 

Finder

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But paradox since we never made the thread. Please tell me as a Generally social Liberal, how can you support a radically social conservative institution? I never understood that about you.


Edit:
I think not: hey it's not the first time we've agreed on things ITN. lol.
 

FiveParadox

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I don't think that the monarchy is somehow a "throw-back" to some sort of religious agenda. Indeed, Her Majesty is a Protestant, but she has never made any effort to force her religious thoughts upon her subjects in Canada, nor do I think that she would ever attempt to do so. Just because she is the embodiment of executive power, does not mean that she would ever exericse those powers of her own initiative under any foreseeable circumstances.
 

FiveParadox

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Haha, Finder, you are attempting to paint me as some sort of "radical" person for supporting the Crown of Canada. I guess, then, that the Leader of the New Democratic Party of Canada is just as radically conservative as I am, isn't he? You're blowing things out of proportion, I'm not going to continue this conversation if this is going to turn into another one of your efforts to paint me as something I'm not.
 

Finder

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Fiveparadox why do you ignore the history of the Royal family? The Queen is the head of the church of England. To have her on our coin is like having the Pope on the Italian Coin or the Irish coins and so on.

Fiveparadox before I answer your question further, why don't you answer ours. What gives her the right to be our Queen? Was she elected? Was she chosen by some process which allowed most people to become Queen/King. No, 99% of UK citizens have no way of become apart of the monarchy because they are from the wrong class and family bloodline.

I say again what gives the current Queen the right to be Queen!!! Hell dictators around the world have more credibility then her. Some have been elected, others have lead populer raisings, and still others have some kinda of functional democratic process at one point. But the monarchy as no illusions to this. You were born in the right line of family in the right order and there you have it your King or Queen. This is wrong... I still can't believe you are blind to the fact of classism, and the history of Euroe from 600 AD on with the development of Feudalism to it's downfall in the age of enlightenment and revolution. The monarchy is a throw back to Feudalism, plain and simple and any university of any note would agree with that.
 

Finder

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Socialists, Social Democrats, Liberals and Conservatives have always taken on these titles as to gain power and make changes slowly. Pierre Trudeau himself one of your Liberals toyed with the idea of cutting away from the monarchy and declaring Canada a Republic.



Edit:
and please do you think everyone who takes on these titles are monarchists. hardly.
 

FiveParadox

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I don't appreciate your highly antagonistic and offensive manner in going about your "questioning", Finder. I would remind you that this is not the House of Commons, and you are speaking to other people, not some obscure authorities. If you continue to make accusatory remarks, I am going to start ignoring you.

Her Majesty the Queen of Canada is given the right to reign over Canada given the vesting of executive power in her person by the Constitution Act, 1867, the commonlaw that is encorporated into our constitution through reference, and the rules of succession that have been agreed to by the various Commonwealth Realms.
 

Finder

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From Monarchy-Free Canada. The possition of most of the Canadian Political parties. Most of which are at least trying to slowly cut our ties with the monarchy. The question is usually how fast. The Conservatives being the only main party even close to being consider monarchist.


Animal Alliance Environment Voters Party of Canada

AAEV was founded by people associated with Animal Alliance of Canada (AAC) and Environment Voters (EV), two organizations that have campaigned in elections since 1999 to promote progressive environmental and animal protection policies. They have no official policy on the monarchy.

Bloc Québecois

With polls showing Quebecers 72 - 76 percent in favour of abolishing the monarchy and BQ leader Gilles Duceppe saying he's opposed to monarchy in Canada - calling it a "genetic lottery", we can probably safely assume that the Queen would not be a part of the government of an independent Quebec. As far as the rest of Canada is concerned, the Bloc does send MPs to the federal parliament and should a parliamentary vote on removing the monarchy ever be held, most Bloc MP's would likely either vote in favour or abstain.

Canadian Action Party

Founded by Paul Hellyer, former Liberal cabinet minister under Lester Pearson and Pierre Trudeau (later a PC, then a Liberal again), this party stands against free trade, the GST and globalization. Notably, as Pearson's Minister of Defence, he oversaw the controversial integration and unification of the "Royal" Canadian Navy, Army and Air Force into a single organization, the Canadian Forces. Although there's no official party policy on the monarchy, its founder's history and the party's nationalism and promotion of Canada's independence signals a republican tendency.

Christian Heritage Party of Canada

A faith-based, anti-same-sex marriage and anti-abortion party, the CHP has no policy on the monarchy.

Communist Party of Canada

The Communist Party's program proposes a confederal, parliamentary republic with a house of commons and a reformed upper house. No other details are offered on whether the separation of head of state and head of government would remain.

Conservative Party of Canada

With one of their founding principles being a belief in "loyalty to our constitutional monarchy," the Conservatives appear on the surface to be the most monarchist of all the parties. However, leader Stephen Harper, a long-time advocate of an elected senate, recently called the Upper House appointment process a "relic of the 19th century." Perhaps for the same reason, a democratically-selected head of state could gain favour as well?

First Peoples National Party of Canada

The First Peoples National Party of Canada represents Aboriginal, First Nations, Inuit and Metis people, with social and treaty issues dominating their platform. In regards to governance, they support the concept of a separate First Nations Parliament, similar to the Sami parliaments of Norway and Finland and a return to a traditional system of governance such as the Three Fires Confederacy. They have no policy on the monarchy.

The Green Party of Canada

The party that stands for the defense of the environment also has no official policy on the monarchy. This is odd since the Australian Green Party very clearly and publicly declare themselves republican. In response to correspondence in 2002, a Green Party of Canada member replied (albeit unofficially) that we should "cut our cultural ties to Europe and become "one" with this land. To that end, it doesn't make any sense to have the symbolic head of this nation being half way across the world." When an official viewpoint or a comment from the party leader was requested later, there was no reply.

Liberal Party of Canada

Historically, the Liberal Party is responsible for most of Canada's incremental steps to a republic. However, the most outspoken Liberals on the subject of replacing the Queen with a democratically-chosen Canadian citizen as Head of State, John Manley and Brian Tobin, are now, at least temporarily, out of the picture. Paul Martin's 2004 removal of the Queen's name from Letters of Credence and Recall was a hugely significant move, but little else has happened since then. Should Manley, who's not a Martinite, re-emerge on the landscape, perhaps as a future leadership candidate, the monarchy could be back on the burner as a party issue. Officially, however, there is no party policy on the monarchy.

Libertarian Party of Canada

The Libertarians support small government, direct democracy and enhanced individual rights. Of note: they call for the repeal of the Official Languages Act, with the federal government providing services in English, French, or any other language "provided that the costs of such services are borne by the individuals requesting them." They have no policy on the monarchy. A thorough search of their constitution and party positions revealed no reference to the monarchy.

Marijuana Party of Canada

The Marijuana Party promotes decriminalization of marijuana, the use of industrial hemp and the regulated use of medical cannabis. Humour aside, they appear to be more of an advocacy group than a real political party. Nonetheless, if this is the best way they can get publicity for some very valid points, good luck to them. According to their website, they have no official policy on the monarchy.

Marxist - Leninist Party of Canada

Yes, we Canadians are as politically open as a country can be. But two communist parties? Russia doesn't have that many! Do these people know about the Communist Party of Canada? Maybe they should join forces to avoid splitting the ultra-left? They have no policy on the monarchy but it's assumed that they are not very big fans of the royals.

New Democratic Party of Canada

The NDP's Social Democratic Forum on Canada’s Future, presented as a preliminary report to the party's Federal Council on January 30, 1999 and discussed at the National Convention from August 27 to 29, 1999, goes further than any of the three major federalist parties toward being in favour of Canadianizing the head of state. This statement appears under the section Recommendation # 7, which addresses "the revitalization of Canadian democracy:"

"Somewhat surprisingly, the question of the future of the head of state resonated with many participants -- although most feel that this is not a priority for Canadians at this time. A significant number of respondents suggested that Canada should begin the process of Canadianizing the head of state. But they advocated a cautious approach; one that, for example, involves keeping a close eye on Australia as that country undertakes its process of becoming a republic."

Notably, the most outspoken republican in parliament at the moment is the NDP's Winnipeg Centre MP Pat Martin. Party leader Jack Layton has also indicated publicly that he's open to allowing his future caucus to discuss the issue.

Progressive Canadian Party

The PC Party was formed in 2004 by former Progressive Conservatives who believe their party was taken over by the Canadian Alliance (now the Conservative Party of Canada). Their platform is centrist, although leaning a bit to the right, similar to umm ..., the old Progressive Conservative Party. They have no official policy on the monarchy.

http://www.monarchyfreecanada.org/federal_political_parties.htm