Residential Schools....Are You Kidding me

[CDNBear]

How about we give them the money then say tough ship if they wreck themselves from it?

Why not?

Sounds fair to me. Hell half the hands out crowd are either the descendants collecting in the name of, or people who have falsely claimed to be victims of.

You won, get over it! Now we are being asked to protect people from themselves, who would undoubtedly bitch a cry if the Feds got real pissy and demanded a good look into the business dealings of Native leaders and their ilk.

I'm with AB, what utter BS.

 

[MikeyDB]

We have to teach our children and we don't let them make decisions for themselves because they don't have the capacity and experience that making decisions demands. This is what we haven't done for natives in Canada. We haven't taught them that they're responsibile for their future. We haven't offered them a hand at preserving their culture and holind onto the richness of their heritage while we're more than willing it seems to placate the French Canadians and spend enormous amounts to achieve these outcomes for those people!

The white community sets the standards and establishes the "model" on which the natives and new immigrants to this country base their perspectives. The employer and the educator have a perception and an image set in their subconscious that tells them that the "indians" are lazy and unworthy of the respect of their community. We program our native communities by the standards of white society that ignores the corruption and lies that are accepted as "normal" when it comes to elections and politics. Why would a band council or any native for that matter put any faith in the examples set by white North Americans?

 

[Avro]

We have to teach our children and we don't let them make decisions for themselves because they don't have the capacity and experience that making decisions demands. This is what we haven't done for natives in Canada. We haven't taught them that they're responsibile for their future. We haven't offered them a hand at preserving their culture and holind onto the richness of their heritage while we're more than willing it seems to placate the French Canadians and spend enormous amounts to achieve these outcomes for those people!

The white community sets the standards and establishes the "model" on which the natives and new immigrants to this country base their perspectives. The employer and the educator have a perception and an image set in their subconscious that tells them that the "indians" are lazy and unworthy of the respect of their community. We program our native communities by the standards of white society that ignores the corruption and lies that are accepted as "normal" when it comes to elections and politics. Why would a band council or any native for that matter put any faith in the examples set by white North Americans?

Thats called shifting the blame.

I'll stand up for my race.

Having said that I am in full support of creating a native state within Canada and giving them the tools to start. Someone has to give these poor people a start and it might as well be the white man, the most successful species on the planet.

 

[MikeyDB]

Avro

When your home is invaded by teenagers bored with hanging out at the mall...would you ask anything of their parents? When your government takes your nation to war on the basis of a lie would you question the motives of your President or Prime Minister? When any of a million things goes wrong for somone else, any effort to expand the discussion and search for the genesis of the problem is "shifting the blame"?

Think again.

 

[Avro]

Avro

When your home is invaded by teenagers bored with hanging out at the mall...would you ask anything of their parents? When your government takes your nation to war on the basis of a lie would you question the motives of your President or Prime Minister? When any of a million things goes wrong for somone else, any effort to expand the discussion and search for the genesis of the problem is "shifting the blame"?

Think again.

I think thats what I said, no one unfortunatley, for whatever reason focuses on the real problem. It's like the gun problem in Toronto, most on the left blame guns but guns don't shoot people all by themselves, it's shifting the blame to guns from why do black people like shooting each other. We can't say that because the race card comes out and you are a bigot unless you toe the lefty line on this matter.

 

[MikeyDB]

Avro

There are causes behind effects! There are antecedents to actions and situations, the discussion involving the "responsibility" for how something goes amiss isn't a discussion of an issue that erupts spontaneously from the ether...!

The government of Canada didn't issue an apology to the Chinese because they didn't want to pay the bill for some Chinese food! They apologized because they recognized that the treatment of the Chinese people was fundamentally wrong. I'm fairly certain that you weren't alive when these misdeeds were done and had no hand in them but you strike me as a reasonably intelligent person who has the capacity to exercise some judgment regarding the moral character or complexion of a social ill. There are reasons why people protest in the streets when they live in a society that withholds the right of women to participate in the electoral process.....there are people who have lost their rights becasue of what some other people have done.... "Shifting the blame" is a weasel's argument that takes the place of acknowledging that wrongs have been committed against in this current discussion, native North Americans. And who was the predominant agency behind these actions that disenfranchised an oppressed the native? It was whites...! Sorry but that's not a racial remark it's simply the truth!

 

[darkbeaver]

Why not?

Sounds fair to me. Hell half the hands out crowd are either the descendants collecting in the name of, or people who have falsely claimed to be victims of.

You won, get over it! Now we are being asked to protect people from themselves, who would undoubtedly bitch a cry if the Feds got real pissy and demanded a good look into the business dealings of Native leaders and their ilk.

I'm with AB, what utter BS.

Now just lay that pattern you've drawn over Israel.

 

[MikeyDB]

Avro

Apply that sense of balance to the wider horizon of the human condition... No one will ever die from wounds sustained from my handguns....if you break-into my house and abuse and threaten my loved ones...you're toast.

Morality is situational and conditional, so are the principles that apply in human judgment and expression of laws and social order. "Guns" are only a "problem" if the person manipulating that firearm is bent on anti-social behavior or deranged.... "Guns" are only a "problem" if a society embraces two tiered legal constructs that dismiss or greatly down-play the theft of millions and celebrates the consequential suffering of people who've lost their savings their pensions and their homes..... While it's perfectly acceptable in the minds of some folk that the "government" is the only agent within the Canadian panorama that can legally sell and distribute alcohol as long as there is no "profit" available from marijuana and home-grown dope, there will be sanctions against it. While the government can use firearms to keep the public at bay when the wealthy are determining the future of commerce and trade for millions around the world, it's unacceptable that a dope dealer use firearms to protect his investments and his procucts....

All a matter of degrees and perspectives.

 

[Scott Free]

Come to my town scottfree and I will show you the opposite. My town has a large native population and it is the caucasian type that get harassed. You can not go to the post office with out being asked for some money as they wait for their cheque to arrive. That part I can deal with. It is their reaction when you tell them ..no....that I can't deal with......Well f@#k you then you F*&k'n honkey. Come to my town and I will show you who is racist and who is not. So don't give me this crap about stereotyping and all the rest of it until you've lived where I do. Believe me, I have been in a lot of towns across western Canada and for the most part I see no difference. Once again it all comes down to responsibility......and yes Karrie...most of them do not have any.
A world with out responsibility is a terrible world.

Sure and my cousins got the crap kicked out of them by a group of natives in Penticton where the police actually recommended to them to walk only in gangs for protection - so what?

I will never understand why people always assume that when I state one thing it means I am positing the antithesis... is our culture of double think really become so invasive?

Do you really think that because I think X that I can not also hold Y to be true?

 

[karrie]

Sure and my cousins got the crap kicked out of them by a group of natives in Penticton where the police actually recommended to them to walk only in gangs for protection - so what?

I will never understand why people always assume that when I state one thing it means I am positing the antithesis... is our culture of double think really become so invasive?

Do you really think that because I think X that I can not also hold Y to be true?

You do the same Scott. I simply say that the assertion that 'the majority' are racist is wrong, and you seem to think that means I think racism doesn't exist. People make grand leaps all the time. I started a whole thread dedicated to my irritation over the issue entitled 'extrapolate my view'. Give a few little tidbits (ie, I'm Catholic, white, have been with the same man since I was 14, live in oil country) and watch how people can run with those little tidbits to extrapolate a view based on stereotyping. Because it seems that few people are willing to view the world of personal opinion in grey scale.

 

[Avro]

Avro

There are causes behind effects! There are antecedents to actions and situations, the discussion involving the "responsibility" for how something goes amiss isn't a discussion of an issue that erupts spontaneously from the ether...!

The government of Canada didn't issue an apology to the Chinese because they didn't want to pay the bill for some Chinese food! They apologized because they recognized that the treatment of the Chinese people was fundamentally wrong. I'm fairly certain that you weren't alive when these misdeeds were done and had no hand in them but you strike me as a reasonably intelligent person who has the capacity to exercise some judgment regarding the moral character or complexion of a social ill. There are reasons why people protest in the streets when they live in a society that withholds the right of women to participate in the electoral process.....there are people who have lost their rights becasue of what some other people have done.... "Shifting the blame" is a weasel's argument that takes the place of acknowledging that wrongs have been committed against in this current discussion, native North Americans. And who was the predominant agency behind these actions that disenfranchised an oppressed the native? It was whites...! Sorry but that's not a racial remark it's simply the truth!

Did you ignore the fact of my previous post about guns? Speaking of weasel's, it is a perfect example of shifting blame and if you don't believe red herrings are used have fun in naive-land.

 

[Avro]

Avro

Apply that sense of balance to the wider horizon of the human condition... No one will ever die from wounds sustained from my handguns....if you break-into my house and abuse and threaten my loved ones...you're toast.

Morality is situational and conditional, so are the principles that apply in human judgment and expression of laws and social order. "Guns" are only a "problem" if the person manipulating that firearm is bent on anti-social behavior or deranged.... "Guns" are only a "problem" if a society embraces two tiered legal constructs that dismiss or greatly down-play the theft of millions and celebrates the consequential suffering of people who've lost their savings their pensions and their homes..... While it's perfectly acceptable in the minds of some folk that the "government" is the only agent within the Canadian panorama that can legally sell and distribute alcohol as long as there is no "profit" available from marijuana and home-grown dope, there will be sanctions against it. While the government can use firearms to keep the public at bay when the wealthy are determining the future of commerce and trade for millions around the world, it's unacceptable that a dope dealer use firearms to protect his investments and his procucts....

All a matter of degrees and perspectives.

Like I said the left shift the blame from ethnicity to handguns.....with this, nothing is solved.

 

[Machjo]

My experience of minorites in Canada, based on the experiences of ONE family:

One ex-uncle in law's experiences in Victoria:

He'd responded to a job add one day, and they'd said the post was filled already. he was suspicious, so he asked a white friend to check, and sure enough, the job was still available. Later, this uncle got a job in the government and bought a nice car. Whenever he wore a baseball cap while driving, he could almost guarantee that a cop would pull him over. Regular occurrence.

An ex-brother-in-law's experience:

In Victoria:
He'd get stopped and questioned by the same cop over and over again. Finally one day when the cop stopped him, he'd addressed the cop by name and asked for the cops ID number. Only then did the cop stop harassing him.
In Montreal:
He was looking for an apartment, and they said none available. He knew one was available, so he sent me in to check. Sure enough, it was available, I've got white skin.

Another ex-brother-in-law in Kitchener-Waterloo:
He'd decided to start growing dreadlockes one day. A week later he was attracting cops like bears to honey!

My ex-wife in Victoria along with the first brother mentioned above:
They were accused by the refugee board of having lied about how long they'd been in Canada. Reason: Their English was too good to have been in Canada such a short time! They'd explained that Ethiopia has... just wait for this... quality schools! Their lawyer helped overturn it on the grounds that it was racist. So what di the boear do? They'd decided to cancel the whole process and start the whole process again from scratch! Another year of interviews because of a bunch of old biggots in government.

My personal experiences:
At a high school in Quebec, one of my colleagues, a geography teacher, casually referred to the First Nations as 'savages'. And two other retired teachers from the same school openly talked of Jews as being stingy and talking disparagingly of foreigners. One student said that I might have mulatto kids in the future.
Once I'd married, my wife had lost many of her black friends and even received anonymous threats to her safety!

Yes, and that's just in Canada, and the experiences of but one family. If this is the experience of but one family (and I can't imagine that it's this particular family would somehow just be so unlucky as to attract a disproportiaonal amount of racism), then I must assume that this experience is normal for black people across Canada. These were accumulated experiences of this one family in Victoria, Montreal, Kitchener-Waterloo, and La Malbaie-Pointe-aux-Pic, Charlevoix. I think that ought to be a fair representation of the Canadian mindset.

I hate to say it, but the vast majority of my compatriots are biggots, even among the educated classes. And it's reflected at the ballot box too.

 

[Machjo]

Oh sorry, forgot.

When I was in the military, higher ranking officers were referred to as 'niggers' behind their backs all the time. One man had skinhead tattoos! Another wanted to join the freemen! Nigger, Paki, Chink, squaw, etc. were regular daily words!

And even in my own family, I could witness racism, sorry to say; Though I love my family none-the-less. I'm just saying, from my own personal experiences, it's reasonable to conclude that quite possible the vast majority of Canadians are still very racist.

Let's drop our national pride and just be honest.

 

[Machjo]

Oh, and I forgot:

When I was 12 and selling chocolates for a school ski trip in Victoria, one man who was about to buy one asked which school it was. When he'd learnt it was a French-medium school, he'd just said "I hate French people" and walked on.

I was absolutely shocked! I was 12, he was an adult.

Should I go on with more examples?

 

[Machjo]

The examples above are all contrete examples of repeated racism through but one family. ONE. Now let's multiply it across the country.

 

[Zzarchov]

Don't multiply it across the whole country. Thats just non sensical, that just shows what happened to one family.

Case in point.

My one friend lives in Surrey BC. He is white. He is not allowed to eat in certain restraunts (being forcibley removed) , shop in certain stores or walk home from work (where he gets told off as a "Dirty Gora")

His crime is being a minority, aka a "Dirty Gora".

Should we therefore infer that not only are whites Minorities country wide, but that they are racially abused in such a manner country wide?

 

[gerryh]

I agree with Albertabound.

It doesn't matter what you agree or disagree with..... your just a lousy stinkin indian.








Livin loud and proud in Alberta

 

[CDNBear]

It doesn't matter what you agree or disagree with..... your just a lousy stinkin indian.








Livin loud and proud in Alberta

rotflmffao!!!

Love the new sig btw Gh...

eta: That's FBI...f'n big Indian...

 

[karrie]

I hate to say it, but the vast majority of my compatriots are biggots, even among the educated classes. And it's reflected at the ballot box too.

I'm sorry, but, most of the bigotry you discuss doesn't sound like native issues. The assertion was that the majority of albertans are prejudiced against natives. Now, if you assert that the majority of Canadians have some sort of prejudice, you'd be completely correct. BC'ers tend to dislike Albertans. Albertans tend to dislike the Quebecois. All of the races (and I mean all... I've seen as much race hate from minorities as I have from caucasians) tend to have an undercurrent of distrust in other races. Add them all together, and you definitely come out with the majority (I'd say the VAST majority even), who possess a prejudice of some form or another.