Requiem for the Left

[I think not]

:arrow: Long read, you have been warned!

Primo: The Cerberean Conception

Since it's almost become a cliché to observe that Marxism is dead in practice – that is, if you overlook its authoritarian half-life in China, Cuba, North Korea, Vietnam – but thriving in theory, we can at least ask exactly what that theory is, a question that returns three very different answers:

Some should get all of the pie. This is classic manual-labor theory of value Marx: Since the manual laborers produce all wealth, anyone else who has any wealth must be leeching off that labor. Every slice and crumb of the pie belongs to "the workers" who baked it, i.e., all wealth must be redistributed to the proletariat. This is why Communism eventually adopted the hammer-and-sickle as its emblem. (An embarrassing choice, by the way, for what those tools really represent is the investment of capital. A truer symbol of the manual-labor theory would have been simply a pair of dirty hands, a fact ironically reflected in the Bolshevik workers' term of derision for the Party's nonworker majority: beloruchki -- "white hands.")


link

 

[Jay]

Leftism constantly reveals itself for what so many have called it: a religious dogma.

That's basically what Ann Coulter says.

"Much of the left's hate speech bears greater similarity to a psychological disorder than to standard political discourse. The hatred is blinding, producing logical contradictions that would be impossible to sustain were it not for the central element faith plays in the left's new religion. The basic tenet of their faith is this: Maybe they were wrong on facts and policies, but they are good and conservatives are evil. You almost want to give it to them. It's all they have left."

 

[Dexter Sinister]

There's way too much of this going on here. I'm not a mod, but if I were...

That's a copyrighted article by Barry Loberfield from FrontPageMagazine.com, ITN. You're in violation of copyright law and the forum rules. Post a link next time, and give credit where it's due.

 

[#juan]

I shortened your post and put in a link. You didn't give any credit to the writer. Now it's fixed. #juan............Moderator

 

[jimmoyer]

The Left is certainly not dead, nor is it bankrupt of
idea and principles.

I must constantly remind my fellow conservatives of
this.

In fact we conservatives aren't too happy about
the track record of our Republican Congress. I'm
glad, the Hammer Delay is gone. He honored the idea
of Pork, antithetical to us fiscal conservatives.
And both parties pander for the latino vote thinking
it is some monolith, rather than do the right thing
on immigration policy.


Nope, the Left is not dead.

What lives for any of us is some politician who has
guts enough that he or she is not afraid to lose an
election.

 

[darkbeaver]

Well put JimMoyer.

 

[Jersay]

Good, and we will be the nightmare for conservatives for the rest of their lives.

 

[Toro]

The Left - or at least that one part of it - should stop all this silly anti-corporate rhetoric since corporations are critical in wealth creation. You can't distribute wealth if you don't have any.

 

[cortezzz]

bizarre that the left should be compared to a religion--- since its main ontological underpinnings are-- materialism and humanism
while the right not only quotes the bible --- but actually takes it seriously--
and
rightwing leaders---- actually claim to be recieving transmissions directly from god
Anne coulter--- she knows what side her buns are buttered

 

[Jay]

Good, and we will be the nightmare for conservatives for the rest of their lives.

Ummm sorry to disappoint Jersay but you are far, far from being our nightmare.

 

[jimmoyer]

Yeah Jay is right, Jersay, the Left is the least of our
nightmare.

Both the Western world's Left and the Right share a nightmare, one not predicting it and the other on guard for it.

 

[Jersay]

:roll:

 

[cortezzz]

Re: RE: Requiem for the Left

The Left - or at least that one part of it - should stop all this silly anti-corporate rhetoric since corporations are critical in wealth creation. You can't distribute wealth if you don't have any.

you have a point
and i guess at the risk of alienating my fellow socialists
i kind of agree
BUT
the corporation --left on its own -- is amoral--
the corporation has to be regulated and controlled
and watched and taxed
and integrated ito a common purpose that somehow serves the common good as well as its particular interests
and its influence has to be curtailed as it will naturally try to sway governmental policy to suit itself-- perhaps at the expense of the common good


sweden-- the model
-- super corporatist-- ie ericsson etc
-- super socialist

thats a mature society------ the society that sees these
forces for creation and common purpose as strategies

 

[Jersay]

I agree, don't mind state-controlled corporations, you can have state-controlled corporations which somehow people who are on the right begin to forget.

 

[Toro]

Cortez

You obviously must have laws to regulate the behavior of any individual and organization. I don't think that's the issue.

Scandanavia was exactly what I was thinking about.

 

[jimmoyer]

I find abuse in either state-controlled corporations
or private corporations.

And of course a state-controlled corporation always
has more unnecessary fat immune to any market
forcing it to diet.

 

[cortezzz]

Re: RE: Requiem for the Left

Cortez

You obviously must have laws to regulate the behavior of any individual and organization. I don't think that's the issue.

Scandanavia was exactly what I was thinking about.

well when i say socialist-- thats what i mean
something along the lines of scandanavia
at least theoretically

the term socialist- to me implies a mixed economy
universal heath care s etc

as opposed to communist--- which theoretically advocates the abolition of all private property

 

[Toro]

Cortez

In reality, all economies are mixed. It just matters to what degree.

What surprises a lot of people is that the Scandanavian economies are fairly open and usually ranked fairly highly in these indices of economic freedom. Commerce is fairly deregulated, labour markets are flexible making it easy to fire people, they're free traders, its not hard to start a business, and corporate taxes are quite low. Income taxes and consumption taxes are high to fund social programs, and there is a lot of government employment, but otherwise, they're pretty unrestricted economies.

 

[I think not]

I know it was a very long read, but obviously none of you bothered reading it. It wasn't attacking "socialism" but rather communism and those who miraculously converted themselves from communists to little more to the right of it.

Communism is dead or dying, slowly but surely.

But, I also believe in several hundred years, when humanity drops petty differences and begins to contemplate that everyone is equal, then it will come back.

 

[cortezzz]

a slip then....
the title of your thread is requiem for the left
not requiem for communism