Religious leaders butthurt over doctor assisted suicide

AnnaG

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Jul 5, 2009
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The one thing always overlooked in this debate is that suicide is not illegal. You cannot be charged with anything if you attempt to take your own life. So what is the difference if I eat a bullet or close the garage with the truck running or get a doctor to leave me a needle full of morphine?

It is about personal choice. As it stands terminally ill have to end their lives while they can still accomplish the task themselves which may mean giving up weeks or months of time that could be spent with family and friends or working on their bucket-list. Why is it that as soon as they are sick enough to lose any quality of life things change and they lose that right to end it. It makes no sense to me. An ALS patient is allowed to choose to die while they still have the physical capacity to not just kill themselves but do other things yet once that capacity to do those things is gone so is their choice.

This shouldn't even be a debate. So long as their are clear instructions from the patient while they are able to make the decision it should remain their choice. We "pull the plug" on people all the time. My Step-dad recently passed from kidney failure at age 90 and he was allowed to give a DNR order. How is this different from an ALS patient or end-stage cancer patient. Why can we refuse treatment but not get treatment that allows us to die on our own terms.
Because politics and lawmakers are not rational. And apparently, logic and reason is not why we choose them.
 

coldstream

on dbl secret probation
Oct 19, 2005
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You're talking about the religious nutters that wish to control other people's lives based on imaginary men in the clouds right?

Keeping a person alive who has no chance of recovery and is in constant pain is merciful? Making them and their family suffer for months or years is merciful? Doing such things because you believe in some fairy tale is the crime against humanity.

Your morals are not my morals. Your god to me is an imaginary fairy tale used to control the minds of the masses for as long as men have wanted to control other men. Whether it be the christian god or Egyptian gods or Mayan gods doesn't matter because there is no proof of any of them. All are based upon the same principle....do as I say or some imaginary power will harm you...nothing but a tool to control people. If you are stupid enough to believe such bullsh*t that is your problem but you are not going to force me to believe it or live by the rules dictated by some cult leader.


Morals are absolute, eternal, and divinely instituted.. as is good and evil. The moral relativism of our age is a fabrication, it is based on pure sophistry. It is a product of Atheism. You can never reconcile Theism with Atheism... they are logically contradictory. Our society has chosen atheism, in radical dissension from its founding credo and civilizing impetus.. and it will reap a bleak harvest for that. Moral relativism itself is a product of a society in a deep and fragmenting crisis that has lost all sense of a moral superstructure.

As to your comments on suicide being legal that is correct. But Aiding and Abetting a suicide has always been illegal up to now. What we are doing here is instituting State euthenasia.. which is not suicide. It implicates the medical establishment in a act that they are Oath Bound not to resort to (Hypocratic Oath - do no harm).. and set up an irreconcilable set of contradictions in its mission.. which will have devastating effects on our society. We are seeing that manifest in the Netherlands and Belgium now.
 
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AnnaG

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Jul 5, 2009
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oops i gave you a thumbs up when i did not intend to Anna. Sorry.. :roll:
No worries, although you did have me wondering if you had skipped your meds today.

You misunderstand the nature of what we are dealing with. No system based on Evil is amenable to reparation. They are in fact exactly what they appear to be.. thugs and punks.
A system based upon evil? Waitaminit! Who allowed evil to sprout and grow in the first place? Who allows evilness to continue?

Killing children is not merciful. It is an atrocity and crime against humanity. It will be a festering wound which will consume all of our culture..
Really? So allowing some poor kid with no hope for survival to suffer a nasty disease all the way to the end is merciful. A crime against humanity? What about humanities' crime against the individual? Keeping someone alive at any cost is not exactly merciful sometimes.

And we've had rule by law for the entirety of our country's history.. and that of the West of the rule of good over evil.. defined by our moral patrimony and by our consciences. The latter now has been convoluted beyond access to large swaths of the population.. by sophistry relativism and radical individualism.
And rule by religious cult is better? YAY FOR INQUISITIONS! YAY SHARIA!
 

Ludlow

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Jun 7, 2014
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Well, then let those religious leaders fund the increase in palliative care.

Oh, ffs. Life is more than just being able to think and move ones limbs. Life is a huge mechanism that includes myriads of qualities and what these putzes do not seem to understand is our lives are our own mainly, our families and friends' to a much lesser degree, and our societies to a extremely small degree. We should have a say over what happens to our own lives. And we should consider what our families and friends wishes would be concerning us. But what societies' wishes for us? Not much to consider there. But the ultimate decision should be our own alone.

IOW, hypocrites sitting back thinking they know what is best for each of us. Nuts.
I've often asked, If people of a certain faith donate 10% of their earnings ( tithe), to their church. Consider that if they faithfully tithe for say, just 20 years. Maybe they make 50k a year. That's 100k they will have donated to their church in that period of time. Then why doesn't that particular church, help them with their funeral expenses. Why?,,because it doesn't work that way. There's other expenses that take priority. Like the preachers Porche .
 

Ludlow

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Morals are absolute, eternal, and divinely instituted.. as is good and evil. The moral relativism of our age is a fabrication, it is based on pure sophistry. It is a product of Atheism. You can never reconcile Theism with Atheism... they are logically contradictory. Our society has chosen atheism, in radical dissension from its founding credo and civilizing impetus.. and it will reap a bleak harvest for that. Moral relativism itself is a product of a society in a deep and fragmenting crisis that has lost all sense of a moral superstructure.

As to your comments on suicide being legal that is correct. But Aiding and Abetting a suicide has always been illegal up to now. What we are doing here is instituting State euthenasia.. which is not suicide. It implicates the medical establishment in a act that they are Oath Bound not to resort to (Hypocratic Oath - do no harm).. and set up an irreconcilable set of contradictions in its mission.. which will have devastating effects on our society. We are seeing that manifest in the Netherlands and Belgium now.
Many of the 613 laws of the Torah have been determined to be obsolete by Jewish Clergy. Would that also be considered moral relativism?
 

PoliticalNick

The Troll Bashing Troll
Mar 8, 2011
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Morals are absolute, eternal, and divinely instituted..
No, no and hell no! There is no such thing as god. Religion (all religions) is a man-made concept used to control the masses through fear. No different than the propaganda used to justify wars and hatred today. The sooner you understand you are being lied to and fed a fairy tale by men with no motive other than to control your thoughts, actions and get your money the sooner we can have an intelligent conversation.
...as is good and evil.
Good and evil are based on perception and point of view.
The moral relativism of our age is a fabrication, it is based on pure sophistry. It is a product of Atheism. You can never reconcile Theism with Atheism... they are logically contradictory. Our society has chosen atheism, in radical dissension from its founding credo and civilizing impetus.. and it will reap a bleak harvest for that. Moral relativism itself is a product of a society in a deep and fragmenting crisis that has lost all sense of a moral superstructure.
Blah blah blah blah blah....Sounds just like a toilet flushing
As to your comments on suicide being legal that is correct.
I know, that's why I pointed it out.
But Aiding and Abetting a suicide has always been illegal up to now. What we are doing here is instituting State euthenasia.. which is not suicide.
No, what we are doing is extending the right to end one's own life past the point where they are no longer physically capable but still mentally able to make an informed and coherent choice. What you are doing is removing that choice and imposing your personal standard based solely on physical capability without any consideration of the harm it may do to the person or their family.
It implicates the medical establishment in a act that they are Oath Bound not to resort to (Hypocratic Oath - do no harm).. and set up an irreconcilable set of contradictions in its mission.. which will have devastating effects on our society.
Keeping someone alive against their wishes causing them physical pain and mental anguish which inflicts severe emotional distress upon their family is DOING HARM! Most medical professionals recognize this. That is why most medical professionals support assisted suicide under a set of prescribed circumstances. It is the religious nutters and zealots who cannot see past their own delusional beliefs that oppose it.
We are seeing that manifest in the Netherlands and Belgium now.
What I see is you and other brain-dead 'believers' thinking they have some right to impose their will upon another human being based upon a manifesto composed of incredulous stories put forward by men seeking power and control.
 

AnnaG

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Jul 5, 2009
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Well, it is interesting how each and every cult has its own idea of morality and dogma yet not one can give any evidence why it is the ultimate authority on morality. So moral relativity can explain why that is. And moral relativity is considered evil by each because they cannot reconcile moralities amongst themselves. Lack of reason: it is why they have to rely on something as fickle and ethereal as faith.
 

Twila

Nanah Potato
Mar 26, 2003
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Morals are absolute, eternal, and divinely instituted.. as is good and evil. The moral relativism of our age is a fabrication, it is based on pure sophistry. It is a product of Atheism. You can never reconcile Theism with Atheism... they are logically contradictory. Our society has chosen atheism, in radical dissension from its founding credo and civilizing impetus.. and it will reap a bleak harvest for that. Moral relativism itself is a product of a society in a deep and fragmenting crisis that has lost all sense of a moral superstructure.

As to your comments on suicide being legal that is correct. But Aiding and Abetting a suicide has always been illegal up to now. What we are doing here is instituting State euthenasia.. which is not suicide. It implicates the medical establishment in a act that they are Oath Bound not to resort to (Hypocratic Oath - do no harm).. and set up an irreconcilable set of contradictions in its mission.. which will have devastating effects on our society. We are seeing that manifest in the Netherlands and Belgium now.
How about you resolve ALL the contradictions in the bible and you get every other religion on board with your bible before you insist on the world abiding by that book...
 

WLDB

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Jun 24, 2011
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Ottawa
You can improve palliative care while still allowing people to decide when they want to make their exit. The two are not mutually exclusive.