RELEASE JOSE PADILLA!!!

Cosmo

House Member
Jul 10, 2004
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Re: RE: RELEASE JOSE PADILLA!

Vanni Fucci said:
You are comparing some small time regulations with the stripping of fundamental rights though Cosmo...there is no comparison...

As you said, Vanni ... YET.

Sorry ... missed your post. Was busy stuffing my face. ;) Nothing comes between me and my dinner!
 

jjw1965

Electoral Member
Jul 8, 2005
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How long will it be Ocean Breeze, how long do we have before the US compels our government to suspend our liberties in the interest of the Pan-American security perimeter...
The CFR's goal for the Pan-American security parimeter is 2010
 

Nascar_James

Council Member
Jun 6, 2005
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The court has ruled. We must respect the courts decision, after all we live in a state of law.

The three-judge panel of the 4th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals ruled unanimously that the president has the authority to detain a U.S. citizen closely associated with Al Qaeda . So it was not one judge, nor was it two, but three judes ruled in favor of detaining this individual indefinitely. When matters of national security for all citizens are at stake, the judges agreed with the President that this individual is a high risk factor if released.
 

damngrumpy

Executive Branch Member
Mar 16, 2005
9,949
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kelowna bc
Didn't ya know, W talks to God? This administration has shared police on such things as the war on drugs, and an agreement that says that American troops can cross the boarder to protect us.
Who would they protect us from, America is the only real immediate threat to this country. What is being set up is the eventual merging of Canada and America. It started with trade, and policing, and anti terrorism, and the gun laws, and it will continue until we decide enough is enough.
The Liberals keep quiet about it and the Conservatives are really little more than closet yankee lovers, but once in power they will come out of the closet, and we will be little more than yes men for the great empire to the south.
My father, now 92, says he spent a half decade over seas fighting against what the American people elected into office.
 

jjw1965

Electoral Member
Jul 8, 2005
722
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Didn't ya know, W talks to God? This administration has shared police on such things as the war on drugs, and an agreement that says that American troops can cross the boarder to protect us.
Who would they protect us from, America is the only real immediate threat to this country. What is being set up is the eventual merging of Canada and America. It started with trade, and policing, and anti terrorism, and the gun laws, and it will continue until we decide enough is enough.
The Liberals keep quiet about it and the Conservatives are really little more than closet yankee lovers, but once in power they will come out of the closet, and we will be little more than yes men for the great empire to the south.
My father, now 92, says he spent a half decade over seas fighting against what the American people elected into office.
:thumbleft:
 

Ocean Breeze

Hall of Fame Member
Jun 5, 2005
18,399
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My father, now 92, says he spent a half decade over seas fighting against what the American people elected into office.


I BET!! Wonder how he stomachs what is happening in the US now??? Wonder how we all stomach it.......

It really makes one wonder. Here we are discussing these very critical issues as they evolve around us............and yet are so impotent (helpless) to change the tide.. collectively, or individually. Not a great feeling of empowerment...
 

zenfisher

House Member
Sep 12, 2004
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Seattle

Vanni Fucci

Senate Member
Dec 26, 2004
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8th Circle, 7th Bolgia
the-brights.net
Re: RE: RELEASE JOSE PADILLA!!!

zenfisher said:
http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,262917,00.html

I think he is merely payng now for the first murder he committed.

Maybe so Zen, but as an American citizen, he is still guaranteed a fair trial by a jury of his peers, is he not?

The government has not produced a single shred of evidence against him, and yet he's been detained for over 3 years...

What if he didn't do what he's alleged?

What if he was a social experiment by the Executive branch to see just how far they could push the Constitution. Having this precedent set violates everything that your country has accomplished with regards to fundamental and inalienable rights and due process...

Now your Executive branch can jail dissenters, claiming they are part of a terrorist organization, and they don't have to produce any evidence to support that claim, and they can hold them indefinitely...what's next? Making confessions obtained by torture a standard operating procedure of law enforcemnt?

...oh yeah, they've already done that... :?
 

zenfisher

House Member
Sep 12, 2004
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Seattle
I said he should get a trial. The likelyhood he has made several parole violations. It would be simple enough to jail him on those. Would you let Manson out to. he claimed he was a political prisoner. Just another Feckin' looney as far as I'm concerned.

The reality is, down here, those who have money get their day in court. It is absolutely absurd to assume that just because he is an American citizen ...he gets a fair trial. Due process is a myth for the poor. If it were true the jails would be filled with the rich...not the poor. Celebrity, stature and wealth all play an integral part in how juries perceive guilt or innocense. The best that the poor can hope for is to slip through the cracks. This is what Padilla did.
 

Vanni Fucci

Senate Member
Dec 26, 2004
5,239
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8th Circle, 7th Bolgia
the-brights.net
Ok...maybe I've not been clear...I couldn't give a flyin' feck about Padilla, the man...what concerns me is the Padilla case, and the precedent that's been set...it has the potential to affect everyone in the US and eventually the world...this is nowhere near good news for anyone...
 

JomZ

Electoral Member
Aug 18, 2005
273
0
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Reentering the Fray at CC.net
I agree with Vanni. This is another form of regressive politics that harsh regimes like Iraq used to quash discention among the ranks.

The U.S. Security Regime (U.S.S.R, ;) ) bungled this operation and rather admit that they are weak on possible terrorist they will hold this man unti he either kills himself, or can be quietly swept under the rug. They should have tracked Padilla until he either began this supposed plot or fell back into crime.

This whole dirty bomb threat is being scrutinized as well. That the radiological material spread by a conventional blast will be to far spread to cause a feared "Ground Zero". The greater fear is the initial bomb itself rather then the radioactive stuff.
http://www.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2004/6/9/163246.shtml
 

zenfisher

House Member
Sep 12, 2004
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Seattle
I said I agreed that he should have a trial. Just as Manson had a trial. Would you want someone running loose on the streets of Winnipeg...say who has made known threats to The National Disease Control Centre?

Whether his bomb would have worked or not, becomes a moot point. The actual threat is where the danger to a society lies. How long before he would have made a device that could have harmed a great many people?

There are a number of charges they could have brought against him that would stick. Parole violation, uttering threats, even treason, that would hold him in jail. That is the more prudent approach to keeping him in jail. The enemy combatant ruse will backfire anyway. A smart lawyer will ensure he not only gets out earlier than following the tried and true method. Which will only serve to make Padilla more pissed off and a bigger threat to society. He has already shown in the past that he has a pretty big chip on his shoulder...the likelyhood is that this will nt disappear.

As for making him the martyr, I do not find him to be a very sympathetic character. A better one might be that lawyer from Oregon who was mistakenly linked to the Madrid bombing. After his name was cleared...things became very quiet. I am sure a great deal of money has been paid to him as an "out of court" settlement. He would have been a better individual to demonstrate the violation of rights that is currently happening in The US.
 

Nascar_James

Council Member
Jun 6, 2005
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36
Oklahoma, USA
Jose Padilla Indicted

FOXNews:

'Dirty Bomb' Suspect Padilla Indicted
Tuesday, November 22, 2005

WASHINGTON — "Dirty bomb" suspect Jose Padilla has been indicted by a Miami federal grand jury on criminal charges that he conspired to "murder, kidnap and maim" people overseas.

The indicment naming Padilla and four others was unsealed Tuesday and returned by a grand last Thursday. While the charges allege Padilla was part of a U.S.-based terrorism conspiracy, they do not include the government's earlier allegations that he planned to carry out attacks in America.

"We believe it is the appropriate thing to do," Attorney General Alberto Gonzales said during a news conference in Washington Tuesday when announcing the charges.

The indictment says Padilla planned various overseas trips to plan terror operations and sent money and assets abroad from the United States.

"This investigation has been underway for quite a while here," Gonzales said. "If convicted of these charges, he could face a sentence of life in prison."

Gonzales also noted that certain provisions of the Patriot Act aided the investigation.

"By tearing down the artificial wall that would have prevented this kind of investigation in the past, we're able to bring these terrorists to justice," Gonzales said.

Padilla, a Brooklyn-born Muslim convert, has been held as an "enemy combatant" in Defense Department custody for more than three years. The Bush administration had resisted calls to charge and try him in civilian courts.

Gonzales said Padilla's previous status as an "enemy combatant" has no legal ramifications for the criminal charges. President Bush has ordered that custody of Padilla be transferred from the Defense Department to the Justice Department.

When asked what caused the administration to change Padilla's status from an enemy combatant, Gonzales replied: "The president says that we're going to use all available tools to deal with this new kind of enemy, to deal with this terrorism threat against America and America's friends and allies. ... We take each individual, each case, case by case."

"We've looked at the facts involved here, and we believe it is appropriate to bring these charges against Mr. Padilla," Gonzales added.

For the time being, the indictment avoids a Supreme Court showdown over how long the government could hold a U.S. citizen without charges. Padilla's lawyers had asked justices to review his case last month, and the Bush administration was facing a deadline next Monday for filing its legal arguments. The high court had been asked to decide when and for how long the government can jail Americans in military prisons.

"The 'evidence' the government has offered against Padilla over the past three years consists of double and triple hearsay from secret witnesses, along with information allegedly obtained from Padilla himself during his two years of incommunicado interrogation," his lawyers said in their earlier appeal.

Padilla lawyer Donna Newman told FOX News on Tuesday that the charges in many ways are a vindication of Padilla's Constitutional rights to due process, but the lawyer wouldn't rule out the possibility that the case could still go to the high court.

Duke University law professor Scott Silliman, who specializes in national security, said the indictment bodes well for the administration.

"They're avoiding what the Supreme Court would say about American citizens. That's an issue the administration did not want to face," Silliman said. "There's no way that the Supreme Court would have ducked this issue."

Padilla has been held at a Navy brig in South Carolina. Following the indictment, which was handed up last Thursday, President Bush sent a memo to Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld ordering Padilla transferred to the federal detention facility in Miami.

The Bush administration has said Padilla, a former Chicago gang member, sought to blow up hotels and apartment buildings in the United States and planned an attack with a "dirty bomb" radiological device.

Padilla was arrested at Chicago's O'Hare International Airport in 2002 after returning from Pakistan. The federal government has said he was trained in weapons and explosives by members of Al Qaeda.

The Charges

Although the Justice Department has said that Padilla was readying attacks in the United States, the charges against him and four others allege they were part of a conspiracy to murder, kidnap and maim persons in a foreign country, and a conspiracy to provide material support to terrorists abroad.

The other defendants are: Adham Amin Hassoun, Mohammed Hesham Youssef, Kifah Wael Jayyousi, and Kassem Daher. Hassoun also was indicted on eight additional charges, including perjury, obstruction of justice and illegal firearm possession.

Hassoun, a Palestinian computer programmer who moved to Florida in 1989, was arrested in June 2002 for allegedly overstaying his student visa. Prosecutors previously described him as a former associate of Padilla.

The 31-page indictment says all five defendants were members of a so-called North American support cell that was established to aid violent jihad in order to establish a Caliphate, or a state governed by strict Islamic law.

The indictment says the five conspired, at times on U.S. soil, with others to commit murder and other crimes, although the object of the conspiracy was to commit violent jihad outside the borders of the United States.

The indictment says the men used front organizations and special codes to conceal their efforts to recruit "mujahideen warriors," raise money to support the training of the warriors, provide communications equipment, and publish documents encouraging jihad.

While the narrative begins in October 1993, Padilla doesn't enter the picture described in the indictment until April 17, 1996, when prosecutors believe he obtained a U.S. passport in Miami. A month later, two of the other defendants "discuss their intentions to 'prepare' Padilla and send him to Egypt," the indictment states.

The men continued planning and raising money in the U.S., Egypt and other countries, until on or about July 28, 1997, Hassoun "asked Padilla if he was 'ready,' and Padilla replied that 'it's gonna happen soon,' " according to the indictment.

The court papers also say in September 1998, Padilla flew to Egypt from Miami. Hassoun kept tabs on Padilla, checking on his financial situation and progress of his studies.

Hassoun was writing checks for thousands of dollars, some of which was apparently for Padilla, and others that were apparently for operations in Kosovo, Chechnya and other places.

Padilla talked about the possibility of going to Yemen in April 2000, but in July 2000, according to the indictment, Padilla filled out a "Mujahideen Data Form" to prepare for violent jihad training in Afghanistan, Usama bin Laden's terrorist training grounds.

Youssef acknowledged in September 2000 that Padilla "entered into the area of Usama," and Hassoun continued financial support, including a November 2001 check for $2,000 with a memo line filled out as "Afghan relief."
 

no1important

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Jan 9, 2003
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RE: RELEASE JOSE PADILLA!

Gee no mention of dirty bomb in indictment as it was more fear mongering by US government.

The only reason they indicated him was his case was going before US Supreme court to see if bushies new law that can hold people branded "enemey combatents" indefinatly is legal. Bushie was scared he would lose and like all dictators he wants to keep his power to imprison people indefinatly.
 

no1important

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Jan 9, 2003
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Court delays Padilla transfer from brig

A teaser:

WASHINGTON (CNN) -- A federal appeals court on Wednesday delayed the transfer of accused terrorist Jose Padilla from a military brig to face trial in Miami.

Padilla, a 35-year-old U.S. citizen, was indicted last week by a federal grand jury in Florida. He will remain in the Navy brig in South Carolina for at least two weeks under a two-page order issued by the 4th Circuit U.S. Court of Appeals in Richmond, Virginia.

The development surprised top Justice Department officials. But the three-judge panel said it needs to know whether it should set aside a September opinion that upheld Padilla's military detention before returning him to civilian authorities.

The court said it wants to hear arguments on whether the opinion was to be vacated "as a consequence of the transfer." The judges pointed out that the facts alleged by the government "warranting" Padilla's military detention differed from the charges in the indictment.

The indictment does not include allegations related to a dirty bomb plot or any reference to allegations publicly stated last year that Padilla also plotted to blow up apartment buildings with natural gas lines.

The appeals court overruled U.S. District Judge Henry Floyd, a Bush appointee who ruled that the president does have the legal authority to declare enemy combatants and hold them indefinitely in military custody.

[/teaser]

I would like to know why too. Hold him for being an "enemy combatent" for 3 years now he is facing diferent charges. Like what the feck?????
 

no1important

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Jan 9, 2003
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Appeals court refuses to transfer Padilla

A teaser:

WASHINGTON -- In a sharp rebuke, a federal appeals court denied Wednesday a Bush administration request to transfer terrorism suspect Jose Padilla from military to civilian law enforcement custody.

The three-judge panel of the Richmond-based 4th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals also refused the administration's request to vacate a September ruling that gave President Bush wide authority to detain "enemy combatants" indefinitely without charges on U.S. soil.

The decision, written by Judge J. Michael Luttig, questioned why the administration used one set of facts before the court for 3 1/2 years to justify holding Padilla without charges but used another set to convince a grand jury in Florida to indict him last month.

Luttig said the administration has risked its "credibility before the courts" by appearing to try to keep the Supreme Court from reviewing the extent of the president's power to hold enemy combatants without charges.


Bush is sure a bastard eh? I think its good the courts are criticizing him. These "scandals" sure never seem to end, when it comes to "W".