Racial tensions in Quebec in spotlight again after taekwondo hijab incident

[tamarin]

And will Muslims westernize after a generation or two here? Certainly, some will. Law of averages. But will most? Who will outlast whom? And if, as they build in number, they don't, what are the implications for those Canadian towns and cities where they're becoming established? Our society seems soft. It lionizes accommodation. But longterm, in dealing with groups who seem immune to integration or assimilation, is this the wisest policy?

 

[sanctus]

And will Muslims westernize after a generation or two here? Certainly, some will. Law of averages. But will most? Who will outlast whom? And if, as they build in number, they don't, what are the implications for those Canadian towns and cities where they're becoming established? Our society seems soft. It lionizes accommodation. But longterm, in dealing with groups who seem immune to integration or assimilation, is this the wisest policy?

I can't see why they wouldn't westernize after a few generations. I keep repeating this, but Statscan indicates there are only half a million Muslims in the country as compared to 30 odd million of "us".Logically, we seem to have the upper hand.

 

[tamarin]

From what I've read, I don't think Muslims are accommodating as would be expected. Western societies are fond of liberal principles and pipe dreams. The future will tell the tale.

 

[tbud]

And this comment has what to do with Muslims in our society?

It has everything to do with how we are distracted by media stories that are irrelevant, while real issues go on without serious discussion.

 

[Agimat]

So what do we do? Expel them from the country? There are only 500,000, more or less, Muslims in Canada. Are we perhaps making a mountain out of a molehill?

It'll settle down once this generation of immigrants has children and grandchildren. These will be totally westernized kids and the issues we think are so important with Muslim people will be history.

No, disrespect man... But we were kind of hoping for the same thing in England since the 60's that the younger generation would be more westernised. Sure, they watch our tv live as we do, but there is unfortunatly no such thing as secular Islam, no two ways about it. This is not to say all Muslims, but it just remians unfortunate that the descendants of Muslim migrants here in England still are very much 100% committed to Islam over the country. In Islam the Church is not seperate from the state.

At the end of the day, extremist or not, a Muslim is more likely to side with a Muslim if he is a shiite a sunni or otherwise than with a western person. People need to bear this in mind, history always repeats itself.

 

[Agimat]

...

So what do we do? Expel them from the country? There are only 500,000, more or less, Muslims in Canada. Are we perhaps making a mountain out of a molehill?

It'll settle down once this generation of immigrants has children and grandchildren. These will be totally westernized kids and the issues we think are so important with Muslim people will be history.

No, disrespect man... But we were kind of hoping for the same thing in England since the 60's that the younger generation would be more westernised. Sure, they watch our tv live as we do, but there is unfortunatly no such thing as secular Islam, no two ways about it. This is not to say all Muslims, but it just remians unfortunate that the descendants of Muslim migrants here in England still are very much 100% committed to Islam over the country. In Islam the Church is not seperate from the state.

At the end of the day, extremist or not, a Muslim is more likely to side with a Muslim if he is a shiite a sunni or otherwise than with a western person. People need to bear this in mind, history always repeats itself.

 

[Agimat]

So what do we do? Expel them from the country? There are only 500,000, more or less, Muslims in Canada. Are we perhaps making a mountain out of a molehill?

It'll settle down once this generation of immigrants has children and grandchildren. These will be totally westernized kids and the issues we think are so important with Muslim people will be history.

While I'm at it man, the Crusades were over 1000 years ago, funny how Western schools see it fit to drop such an event from the cirriculum, especially when such problems should be history

 

[Johnnny]

Ive worked with muslims and they are good people i cant complain and i also think they should wear what they want cause this is a free country. My opinion about putting your country first is that you should give back what you take and things are goooooood.

:canada:

 

[Unforgiven]

I can't see why they wouldn't westernize after a few generations. I keep repeating this, but Statscan indicates there are only half a million Muslims in the country as compared to 30 odd million of "us".Logically, we seem to have the upper hand.

There is a moderate movement to Islam in Canada that has it's detractors among a conservative base. I would have to say that I agree with a modern view of Islam that incorporates some of the common beliefs most Canadians hold such as a separation of Church and State.

But it's a violent set within the Muslim population in Canada that are probably at the base of all fears of Islam integration into Canada. In bringing their best practices of their culture into a blend of all other cultures already present enrich all of us, but it's the worst practices that are being imported, old grudges, oppressive and insular practices that when questioned stand unbending to the moral status quo. You have to go along to get along sometimes and the failure to negotiate in this does and will result in walls being thrown up and exclusions over trivial matters more and more often.

I think so anyway.

 

[mommyelf]

When does this ever stop............Truly!!! If I as a Canadian woman went over to where woman are treated as second class citizens I would be expected to get in line and tow along and if I were to step out of line I would be severly raked over the Political HOT bed of NO NO not in this country. So why is it ok for every other religion to come to Canada and force their religious issues on OUR culture........Although we are a Melting pot of diversification now, we sit back as OUR Politicians you know the ones we have put in POWER to let every other nation tell us WHAT and HOW its going to be!!! I digress..........I really think that sporting events such as Tae Kwon do........and that is Koreian should keep to what the rules and regualtions are. These religious issues should be kept as such and if one cannot apply the rules to themselves they should NOT have taken the sport on. I am NOT racist at all but where does one draw the line........I am Canadian and I believe in what my country stands for, and I believe as well what ever your nationality is one should keep their traditions, religious beliefs as BEST you can and CELEBRATE them as well but, there needs to be RESPECT for ALL

 

[IdRatherBeSkiing]

This seems to be an old topic but the first I heard about it. It seems simple to me. The Taiquando(sp) Federation had a list of acceptable clothing and equipment. Anything not on the list is not allowed. If they want to compete, they need to only use the regulation equipment. They don't have the right to compete in a tournament if they don't follow tornement rules. Seems pretty cut and dry to me. They chose not to remove the illegal equipment and not compete. Their choice. End of story really.

 

[Pangloss]

If someone said they had to wear a tin foil suit while operating on my appendix because it "showed respect to his alien overlord" I'd call him a nutter and tell the hospital to get another surgeon.

If someone says I have to accommodate their customs because of an invisible man in the sky, I'll call them a nutter as well.

Why do religious claims get a free pass from the rest of us? Why do we not say "Ok, this is your faith, and it says you cannot drive on Saturday. I guess I won't hire you to be my driver. You won't remove your turban? I guess industrial construction or firefighting are out of the question, then. The hajib won't go? Then no martial arts competition for you."

If I have parents or grandparents that are Quakers, I can tell the armed forces, in time of war, that I am a Quaker and I will get a free pass to not fight. If, however, I am a secular humanist and I have the most well thought out philosophy of why I won't fight, I will be lucky if I don't end up conscripted or in jail.

Put religious claims on exactly the same footing as any other.

Pangloss

 

[thomaska]

By Jonathan Montpetit
LONGUEUIL, Que. (CP) - A taekwondo team of Muslim girls withdrew from a tournament on Sunday after they were barred from taking part with their hijabs, threatening to re-ignite Quebec's contentious debate about accommodating religious minorities.
"I feel very sad because we practised so hard," said 11-year-old Bissan Mansour, who wears a hijab. "We pulled out for a useless reason."
Referees at the Quebec regional Raymond Mourad Championship met Sunday morning, the first day of the tournament, to talk about rules and regulations.
During the discussion, it was brought up that a team from a Muslim community centre in Montreal would be competing with their hijabs.
"The equipment that is allowed under the World Taekwondo Federation rules doesn't include the hijab," said international referee Stephane Menard, who took part in the meeting.
"We applied the rules to the letter."
The team, made up of girls between eight and 12 years old, went home following the decision. A boys team from the same community centre also withdrew upon hearing the news.
Tournament founder Raymond Mourad said he wanted officials to let the Muslim girls compete this time, but his pleas went unheard.
"The kids who came today, we could have let them compete and warned them for next time," Mourad said. "I tried my hardest to do that, but the referee didn't want to hear it."
Officials said the decision was taken for security reasons. Taekwondo is a martial art that involves mainly kicking and throwing, and the fear is that part of the hijab could come loose during a bout.
The sport's international rules stipulate that players must not wear anything under their protective helmets.
Jean Faucher, president of the provincial taekwando federation, ultimately made the decision to apply the rules concerning hijabs.
"I am not a racist or anything," Faucher said. "It's a rule and I'm a guy for the rules."
But May Haydar of the Montreal Muslim Community Centre said the team had participated in the tournament in recent years without any controversy over the wearing of hijabs.
"We believe it's unfair and it's discriminatory against Muslims," Haydar said.
"The girls, they're very disappointed... Some of them, of course, don't understand why this happened because they participated before."
A coach for the boys team said the girls always practise with their hijabs and there has never been an incident.
Concerns about accommodations to minorities have been simmering in Quebec for the past several months, and Sunday's controversy fuelled fears the debate is simply alienating Quebec's cultural communities.
The Canadian Council of American-Islamic Relations said the decision won't encourage Muslim women to participate in sports.
"This recent fixation on the hijab is only serving to marginalize Muslim women who wish to participate in athletic activity," the Ottawa-based organization said.
The "reasonable accommodation" debate has become so intense that Premier Jean Charest has struck a committee to study the issue.
It's the second time in recent months the hijab has caused controversy at an amateur sporting event in Quebec involving pre-teens.
In February, an 11-year-old Muslim girl from Ottawa was asked to remove her hijab at a soccer tournament in Laval, north of Montreal, due to safety concerns. She refused and her team pulled out of the tournament.
During last month's provincial election, Quebec's chief returning officer received threats and was forced to overturn a ruling that allowed woman to vote while wearing a niqab, a more extensive face covering than the hijab.
The long-line of racially charged incidents also include:
-A Montreal Muslim woman who recently complained she was forced to chose between her hijab and a job as a prison guard.
-Herouxville, a small town in rural Quebec that set up a code of conduct for would-be immigrants.
-A Montreal community health centre under fire for holding women-only pre-natal classes to make Muslim, Sikh or Hindu women feel more comfortable.


Copyright © 2007 Canadian Press

Why do they need Taekwondo? Why not just blow something up instead of kicking it?


Just kidding...:lol: If anyone was offended please "unwad" your thong now.

But really..dontcha think they knew this was going to be an issue when they signed up for the tournament?

Of course they did.

Just some free publicity for the Muslims. I'm not blaming the girls, I'm blaming their coaches and everyone else who was involved in setting them up for failure and heartache.

 

[obscure island]

hi guys I am very intersted in this topic,because i am a saudi girl .i will be on next january in montreal to study the master in concordia.i am goning to wear the moderate kind of hijab not niqab.does this put me in arisk i mean is this not allowed in classes.

I have choosen canada because its multiculturism and tolerance.and my mission here is to study and get experiance .I bear in mind that one must respect other nations and rules...

i hope you accept me a new friend here ...............thanx

 

[obscure island]

hi everybody ....I am still waiting for an answer .........thanx anyhow

 

[hermanntrude]

I'm not really sure of the actual rules on hijabs, but I do know it's not unusual to see them being worn in the street or at the university here. Some people find them kind of strange, I suppose, but I doubt there's anything to stop you wearing whatever you please at university.

Yesterday I saw a girl showing so much cleavage I could see some nipple. I'd say that's more likely to be banned than a hijab

 

[karrie]

Hey obscure,

Wearing a hijab isn't usually a problem. But don't expect to be able to wear it in sports or at some types of work (where it might pose a safety risk). During classes it is fine, and in a college setting there are no rules against it.

If you're really worried about it though, contact Concordia, and pose the question with them. Explain you've seen some of the 'anti-hijab' articles coming from Quebec, and would like to know the school's stance on day to day wear.

 

[obscure island]

hermanntrude hi again i am glad that you answerd me ....your words show a great deal of understanding .i really appreciate it.

kirre i am gonna take your advice and contact concordia .i am so thankfull .

 

[hermanntrude]

it's quite common to see sikhs wearing turbans. I think the issues usually only arise in school classrooms (not university or colleges) and in sports and some industries.

 

[obscure island]

ok this is good news...