QUESTIONS NO ONE CAN ANSWER, OR CAN YOU?

Reverend Blair

Council Member
Apr 3, 2004
1,238
1
38
Winnipeg
RE: QUESTIONS NO ONE CAN

Yugoslavia had a tacit nod from the UN though (something that I still feel was wrong, but it makes a huge difference) and Yugoslavia was not a war for oil.

Yugoslavia was the wrong action for the right reasons. Iraw was the wrong action for reasons of greed and corruption.

Both could have been handled with less military intervention and less cost to innocents in the areas, but that's not much of similarity.
 

Ocean Breeze

Hall of Fame Member
Jun 5, 2005
18,399
95
48
A question that has (to date) no answer to is:


How is it acceptable to concoct a big lie, promote said lie, (or euphemistically: misinformation or info distortion) in order to invade a far off nation that posed no threat to the invader???


Isn't going to war a primitive action in the first place??? Has society not evolved beyond the war mentality??? No war is smart. History has shown what wars have done. In the current era it would be more important to come up with real strategies, and work collectively on some of these major issues.

How is dividing the world , the way the US has done,an INTELLIGENT strategy??? Have the US actions of recent history not increased the anger at the US and the potential for more "hate" groups and possibly terrorism?? One could say, that using war as a "pre-emptive " tactic , is reverting back to another era of unsophistication.

Would it not be wiser to use the abundance of power and money that the US has in more constructive ways ???

IMHO.......it is imperative to assess each situation on an individual basis. similarities might exist......but those should not be the governing factors.

It seems that "war" has become the expedient method for the US now.

Yet, "we" the world must do everything we can to PREVENT /deter wars of any nature. If peacekeepers are required in troubled areas ......fine. But somehow, the war mentality must recede into the background.
 

jimmoyer

jimmoyer
Apr 3, 2005
5,101
22
38
69
Winchester Virginia
www.contactcorp.net
IT IS NOT acceptable:

1. concoct a lie to start a war, unless ..... hmmm.... the long span of history has too many examples.

2. for the world to sit on the sidelines, still not forgiving all of Saddam's debts for the contract work performed and doing nothing of any risk to help Iraq get back on its feet.

It is not acceptable, all righteousness aside.
 

Ocean Breeze

Hall of Fame Member
Jun 5, 2005
18,399
95
48
IT IS NOT acceptable:

1. concoct a lie to start a war, unless .....


sorry, there is NO "unless". (period)


Would the US have fully supported ......let's say USSR , if it did exactly what the US has done in Iraq??? (and lied so blatantly to do it). Don't think so. The US would have gone bullistic .
 

I think not

Hall of Fame Member
Apr 12, 2005
10,506
33
48
The Evil Empire
Ocean Breeze said:
IT IS NOT acceptable:

1. concoct a lie to start a war, unless .....


sorry, there is NO "unless". (period)


Would the US have fully supported ......let's say USSR , if it did exactly what the US has done in Iraq??? (and lied so blatantly to do it). Don't think so. The US would have gone bullistic .

No it wouldn't have.
 

I think not

Hall of Fame Member
Apr 12, 2005
10,506
33
48
The Evil Empire
Re: RE: QUESTIONS NO ONE CAN

Reverend Blair said:
Yugoslavia had a tacit nod from the UN though (something that I still feel was wrong, but it makes a huge difference) and Yugoslavia was not a war for oil.

Yugoslavia was the wrong action for the right reasons. Iraw was the wrong action for reasons of greed and corruption.

Both could have been handled with less military intervention and less cost to innocents in the areas, but that's not much of similarity.

You keep mentioning this tacit nod Rev, where exactly did you see this tacit nod? Or is to excuse other countires participating, like the Gulf War?
 

jimmoyer

jimmoyer
Apr 3, 2005
5,101
22
38
69
Winchester Virginia
www.contactcorp.net
To Ocean breeze, let this in for just a moment......

The former Soviet Union was incredibly more stupid than the United States. Talk about the ugly American abroad, you have yet to see the old generation's Russian version. The Egyptians saw it. Their President Nasser invited Russian troops and gave them military bases. The Russians were worse guests than Americans. They got booted out of Egypt. They got a heavier hand than you can possibly have ever learned from the headlines.
Eastern Europe and the Afghans of the 80s would be glad to tell you of the heavy hand of Russian experience in other cultures in other lands. You've already cancelled most of this in your head since you've heard it all before and what matters most is what you think of American intervention. Nothing else is as interesting or real or as palpable.
 

Ocean Breeze

Hall of Fame Member
Jun 5, 2005
18,399
95
48
http://www.buzzflash.com/premiums/05/06/pre05069.html#more

above will provide an excerpt from a book.....covering the possibility of Fascist Christian America.

Could it happen??? Is it happening as we speak??

one thing is certain , it is a challenge to comprehend the mindset of a radical . ......whatever the flavor. It is even more challenging to try to discuss anything with one.

"my mind is made up, don't confuse me with facts" seems to be the theme in that mindlock.

fascinating .......if a tad frightening.
 

Ocean Breeze

Hall of Fame Member
Jun 5, 2005
18,399
95
48
The former Soviet Union was incredibly more stupid than the United States.


not sure why you even compare the US to the former Soviet Union. How is that a measuring stick for the current US conduct??


( the USSR thing I used for only a "for instance".......nothing more)
 

no1important

Time Out
Jan 9, 2003
4,125
0
36
57
Vancouver
members.shaw.ca
RE: QUESTIONS NO ONE CAN

War is an awful thing, you would think America's government would figure that out by now. They can not contain Iraq and he is/was yapping about Iran, which would be worse, as would NK and Tawaiin if China decided to regain control.

War, invading, occupying, ignoring UN, violating Geneva conventions etc makes America look worse to the rest of the world. And the unfortunate result is these countries on "W's" list, will stock up on weapons (nuclear,bio and chem) and be prepared for the invasion of American soldiers if the time comes. Nobody wins. Everyone loses.

I wonder if "God" neglects telling "W" this when "W" talks to him? I wouldn't think an "all loving God" would. :wink:
 

Ocean Breeze

Hall of Fame Member
Jun 5, 2005
18,399
95
48
I wonder if "God" neglects telling "W" this when "W" talks to him?


this "God" telling Bush to do things " is scary. Used to hear a lot of that in the psychiatric unit I worked on. "God" can tell people to do some very crazy, bizarre and dangerous things.......but then auditory hallucinations are not considered all that "normal" ....are they??? (even if they are drug/self induced)

(Unless one is appealing to the religious fanatics who would believe anything like that as gospel.------and elevate someone like this into "sainthood". Mental disorders take on all kinds of forms. )
 

jimmoyer

jimmoyer
Apr 3, 2005
5,101
22
38
69
Winchester Virginia
www.contactcorp.net
Ocean, the worst thing you can do as you search for the truth is to rush to that which you believe.

I've often found it useful to be as skeptical of my own bias as I am of others' bias.

Digest it just for a moment.

When you hear your habitual distrust kick in, settle down and listen to that which you are long habituated to crusade against.

I've seen all sorts of enlightened and highly intelligent people who read alot, know alot and none of them are immune to the mind think of the herd.

I am not trying to avoid your heartfelt and sincere statements, but there comes a time when higher priority should be given to an unpredictable response --- a simple measure that avoids the jerk of the knee.

It's a technique that allows us to think in unusal and unhabitual ways, for all of us are creatures of habit.

And so, after all is said and done, all the arguments fought and lost, all the knowlege compared with another's, I find little difference between religious zealots and secular, impassioned thinkers.

Very little.

We assume too much, and so I as a rare church goer, have started to go to church to meet these kind of people.
 

Ocean Breeze

Hall of Fame Member
Jun 5, 2005
18,399
95
48
jim. It is not speculation that bush has some psychological problems. Basic psych 101 will allow one to see that. The point is that he does use "religion" to favor his agenda. And for what it is worth...politics/gov't and religion /personal spiritual belief systems should be seperate. One would not "normally" employ "religion" in business , would one??

Politics must have some rational /logical basis to it. (IMHO)
 

I think not

Hall of Fame Member
Apr 12, 2005
10,506
33
48
The Evil Empire
Forget if he's a psycho or not. If he's a christian or not. He can't force policies that promote religion and he cannot use taxpayers money to fund faith based non-profit organizations.

It defeats the purpose that millions of Americans have died for.

He disgraces their memories.
 

jimmoyer

jimmoyer
Apr 3, 2005
5,101
22
38
69
Winchester Virginia
www.contactcorp.net
I'm reminded of an old cowboy western movie, unfortunately, where the old time director saw the truth that inhabits most small towns, most small populations where the the crowd is so sure, so certain about someone who they dislike.

This old earth is rapidly becoming like that little town, where the tyranny of the majority is so sure of itself that it pays little attention to its own habitual ways of thinking.

We are habituated to not trusting the media. Why is it so hard for us to become accustomed to not trusting the majority? Or even questioning ourselves especially if we reside in the majority?

Psychology is advancing to the point and you occasionally see it in the headlines that we are less the original thoughtful thinkers we think we are but all more a product of our culture, or the local herd.

And so it follows that our first response is emotional, and so watch us all search for the rational explanation, the long scroll of facts to support our emotional and initial first response.

This kind of talk is immediately dismissed by those well into the crusade, well into the habit, well into the thought pattern.

History actually tells us that very little is ever predictable. The best and brightest never see ahead of time any event before it happens.

This story in Iraq is unfolding every day, and I can guarrantee the story will confound your best predictions, your best belief, the bedrock of all of which you hold dearly.

You already saw it once. No one forsaw the behavior and pride of those who voted, but like the stock market, we've already moved on, cancelled the value and insight of such an event and have returned to our habits our zeitgeist and so we're still putting stock in the same stock, so to speak.

Iraq really is not Vietnam.

And religion, per se, has informed and been the genesis of most of our democratic ideals and most explicitly seen in the most democratic principle of all: the Protestant reformation. All religions contain these principles. All of them. They warn against the tyranny of hubris, the tyranny of the majority, the lack of humility, the lack of tolerance ---- all behaviors that make democracy work.

And the majority of people that go to church are raising families, going to their jobs, and are feeling the heat of an intolerance coming from all places --- the intellectuals, the secular ones who claim enlightenment.

And I say this despite having received a hell-fire pamphlet from a person who believes that all those who don't believe in Jesus will not be saved in the afterlife.

But I looked at him a little more than just the mind-think he was in.

Perhaps Marilyn Manson said it best if I can get this right: I love the true God, just not the God of the people.

And even there I doubt the God of anyone's idea and like Carl Sagan's point that mankind, the orphan race that it is, still searching for its origins, still searching for its parents, has not yet dimly envisioned a greater religion, a true religion that will fit us all.
 

Ocean Breeze

Hall of Fame Member
Jun 5, 2005
18,399
95
48
Quotes and wisdoms......( appropo)

""We know that dictators are quick to choose aggression, while free nations strive to resolve differences in peace." George W. Bush UN Speech Sept 2004

=

Allow the President to invade a neighboring nation, whenever he shall deem it necessary to repel an invasion, and you allow him to do so, whenever he may choose to say he deems it necessary for such a purpose -- and you allow him to make war at pleasure. If today, he should choose to say he thinks it necessary to invade Canada, to prevent the British from invading us, how could you stop him? You may say to him, 'I see no probability of the British invading us' but he will say to you, 'Be silent; I see it, if you don't.'" : Abraham Lincoln.

=

Until lions have their historians, tales of the hunt shall always glorify the hunters: African Proverb

*****************


Don't you just love the quote from Bush. He ADMITTED that he is a dictator. (or at least a dictator wannabee)

he sure tripped himself up on that one. ( Who is the most aggressive leader on this planet??? sheesh)