Question regarding this latest mid-east conflict.

[SaintLucifer]

Re: RE: Question regarding this latest mid-east conflict.

But the KKK lobbying rockets from Detroit has nothing to do with Windsor blowing up the airport in Philadelphia.

It would if those KKK individuals captured some Canadian Forces soldiers and attempted to fly them to another country via Philadelphia's airport. The very fact the US would allow this KKK faction use of their airport for such terrorist activity allows us to forget they are a sovereign state. If the KKK decided to fly our captured soldiers out of bloody Dallas in Texas we have the right to hit Dallas if we so desire. Just as Bush said those states which harbour terrorists within their borders suffer the consequences. Is this not why the US 'invaded' Afghanistan? Why has no one complained about the presence of the US military in Afghanistan? Oh I see! It is quite alright for Americans to defend their own people in whatever manner they deem appropriate but no other nation is allowed to do the same? No wonder the world dislikes Americans.

 

[elevennevele]

Re: RE: Question regarding th

Palestine was never an established country. It had been part of the Ottoman Empire. There was no such thing as Palestine as a sovereign state before the British destroyed the Ottoman Empire and took control of the new state it called Palestine. It was not even a country then. It was a British mandate.

Splitting the Palestinian mandate in two was the plan. North for the Jews and south for the Arabs. The 'Palestinian' Arabs would have none of this so they attacked the Jews. This is why they have no land of their own. They lost it. Spoils of war and all that. Strange that the 'Palestinians' never complained when they were ruled by the Ottoman Turks who basically took over their land but when the British hand a portion of that same land over to the Jews who were the original settlers eons ago they complain. Why the difference? Simple. Anti-Semitism.

Oh yeah, spoils of war. Nothing insensitive about that statement. So if the US decided to just maintain control of Iraq, it would just be a situation of “spoils of war” and those people should just be done with it.

So the people on the land who you say weren’t a part of an actual country because who said exactly? should such people accept being moved despite whatever homes they may have lived in from their grandfathers and their grandfather’s fathers.

Oh yeah, it’s just spoils of war. Nobody should have anything wrong with that and if a person does, well their criticism is just anti Semitic and sour grapes. Racism goes both ways my friend.

Please tell me what came first? The hatred? or the cause of the hatred? Are you putting the cart before the horse Saint Lucifer? Whose right was it to decide the peoples lives living on the land? Please tell me again. The British? The Americans? The Europeans? Who’s right was it to evict people for whose supposed right of historic interpretation?

The honest truth is that the area of land has historically been fought over throughout history. The real issue becomes one of whether you displace people from their homes, their land because as a new authority you wish to interpret historical ownership regardless of the established lives concurrently living on the land. Lives who's identity just happens to be Arab.

Are you going to tell me Arabs were not there throughout history?

 

[elevennevele]

RE: Question regarding th

The history of that land is complex. It has held a history of many different people fighting over it. The thing is, you can’t just suddenly step in and displace people who have had livelihoods for generations. To simply decide through a new powerful authority, who suddenly owns what, move families, and then not expect hatred and violence is sticking one’s head in the ground.

Just look at the Jewish settlers who had their homes built in the past 15 years being forced to move by their own government. I saw images of hatred, violence, etc by Jews at their own people.

Now imagine another ethnic group being forced to move from their homes on land that their grandfather’s left them. I’ve seen a Palestinian with legal paperwork showing that his home was built generations ago, that the land was farmed by him for generations, and guess what he was getting? You guessed it, an eviction notice.

Oh, but let us wave our western fingers at whatever anger he might show towards his situation. Oh yeah and discredit him further by just saying he’s anti Semitic.

Fire is made via a spark and hatred goes both ways.

 

[Kreskin]

Re: RE: Question regarding this latest mid-east conflict.

But the KKK lobbying rockets from Detroit has nothing to do with Windsor blowing up the airport in Philadelphia.

It would if those KKK individuals captured some Canadian Forces soldiers and attempted to fly them to another country via Philadelphia's airport. The very fact the US would allow this KKK faction use of their airport for such terrorist activity allows us to forget they are a sovereign state. If the KKK decided to fly our captured soldiers out of bloody Dallas in Texas we have the right to hit Dallas if we so desire. Just as Bush said those states which harbour terrorists within their borders suffer the consequences. Is this not why the US 'invaded' Afghanistan? Why has no one complained about the presence of the US military in Afghanistan? Oh I see! It is quite alright for Americans to defend their own people in whatever manner they deem appropriate but no other nation is allowed to do the same? No wonder the world dislikes Americans.

I don't give a crap what Doorknob says. His credibility is lower than a snakes ass. His stupidity is the root cause of division all over the world. He has created more terrorists by being an arrogant jackass than he could ever kill. Don't give us the "Bush said" garbage. It is completely obvious he is a dunce.

 

[elevennevele]

Re: RE: Question regarding th

Maybe an International body should come here and partition Canada for the historic references of the French being the first to colonize. It’s the way you can start the same bloody mess.

Pushing people off of here, moving other people over there, decided who deserves what and all via an outside authority. Suddenly, the French and the rest of Canada would find themselves fighting each other, hatred and racism would abound, and whoever had the closest ties with the western world and looking the most European in appearance would suddenly get to demonize the other party as being a saboteur of peace in the region. Especially if the weaker side resorts to poor man’s war tactics.

Please... for whoever doesn’t get that I’m making an anology, think before speaking out.

 

[SaintLucifer]

Re: RE: Question regarding th

Palestine was never an established country. It had been part of the Ottoman Empire. There was no such thing as Palestine as a sovereign state before the British destroyed the Ottoman Empire and took control of the new state it called Palestine. It was not even a country then. It was a British mandate.

Splitting the Palestinian mandate in two was the plan. North for the Jews and south for the Arabs. The 'Palestinian' Arabs would have none of this so they attacked the Jews. This is why they have no land of their own. They lost it. Spoils of war and all that. Strange that the 'Palestinians' never complained when they were ruled by the Ottoman Turks who basically took over their land but when the British hand a portion of that same land over to the Jews who were the original settlers eons ago they complain. Why the difference? Simple. Anti-Semitism.

Oh yeah, spoils of war. Nothing insensitive about that statement. So if the US decided to just maintain control of Iraq, it would just be a situation of “spoils of war” and those people should just be done with it.

So the people on the land who you say weren’t a part of an actual country because who said exactly? should such people accept being moved despite whatever homes they may have lived in from their grandfathers and their grandfather’s fathers.

Oh yeah, it’s just spoils of war. Nobody should have anything wrong with that and if a person does, well their criticism is just anti Semitic and sour grapes. Racism goes both ways my friend.

Please tell me what came first? The hatred? or the cause of the hatred? Are you putting the cart before the horse Saint Lucifer? Whose right was it to decide the peoples lives living on the land? Please tell me again. The British? The Americans? The Europeans? Who’s right was it to evict people for whose supposed right of historic interpretation?

The honest truth is that the area of land has historically been fought over throughout history. The real issue becomes one of whether you displace people from their homes, their land because as a new authority you wish to interpret historical ownership regardless of the established lives concurrently living on the land. Lives who's identity just happens to be Arab.

Are you going to tell me Arabs were not there throughout history?

You are comparing the US occupation of Iraq with the intent of Muslims to destroy my familial homeland of Great Britain? Did Iraq ever attack US troops? No. Did troops of the Ottoman Empire attack British troops? Yes. Do not compare the two situations. The Ottoman Turks were allied with our enemy the Germans. We smashed both the Germans and the Ottoman Turks who owned Palestine. Spoils of war here yes. Had the Ottoman Empire not been stupid enough to attack British outposts they would not have lost their Empire. You attack an innocent people you suffer the consequences. The Arabs brought all of this upon themselves. You know it. I know it and the world knows it. Ye reap what ye sow.

 

[elevennevele]

Re: RE: Question regarding this latest mid-east conflict.

I don't give a crap what Doorknob says. His credibility is lower than a snakes ass. His stupidity is the root cause of division all over the world. He has created more terrorists by being an arrogant jackass than he could ever kill. Don't give us the "Bush said" garbage. It is completely obvious he is a dunce.

Yes, when you kill people in their own country/home and you fail to truly justify it, you just turn their family members into fanatics. Now you have more enemies to demonize.

Anybody else surprised? I'm not. Where does terrorism come from again? Oh yeah, let's just specifically blame a person’s religion.

I say it’s bad people or short sighted people on many sides creating a cycle of hatred. I always think however those with a stronger capability having a greater responsibility to do what is right. This is because they have more the resource to do so.

For the WWII Resistance movements, and for their British backers in SOE who had been ordered by Prime Minister Winston Churchill to "set Europe ablaze," they were freedom fighters. Their clandestine work of sabotage and ambush, destroying bridges and railroads, assassinating German officials and their local collaborators, was a wholly justifiable tactic of a war of national liberation. And it was the Nazi occupiers of Europe during World War II who characterized the work of the French and Czech and Polish Resistance movements, as backed by Britain's Special Operations Executive, as 'terrorism."

Quote: Copyright 2000 The Press Association Limited

 

[Just the Facts]

Re: RE: Question regarding th

Maybe an International body should come here and partition Canada for the historic references of the French being the first to colonize. It’s the way you can start the same bloody mess.

You have heard about the referenda, the Parti Quebecois, the Block Quebecois, a federal party who once was the Queens Loyal Opposition whose mandate is the division of Canada, right? How come we're not blowing things up? Home come we don't have suicide bombers blowing up people in Van Houte's in Quebec?

 

[SaintLucifer]

Re: RE: Question regarding this latest mid-east conflict.

I don't give a crap what Doorknob says. His credibility is lower than a snakes ass. His stupidity is the root cause of division all over the world. He has created more terrorists by being an arrogant jackass than he could ever kill. Don't give us the "Bush said" garbage. It is completely obvious he is a dunce.

Yes, when you kill people in their own country/home and you fail to truly justify it, you just turn their family members into fanatics. Now you have more enemies to demonize.

Anybody else surprised? I'm not. Where does terrorism come from again? Oh yeah, let's just specifically blame a person’s religion.

I say it’s bad people or short sighted people on many sides creating a cycle of hatred. I always think however those with a stronger capability having a greater responsibility to do what is right. This is because they have more the resource to do so.

For the WWII Resistance movements, and for their British backers in SOE who had been ordered by Prime Minister Winston Churchill to "set Europe ablaze," they were freedom fighters. Their clandestine work of sabotage and ambush, destroying bridges and railroads, assassinating German officials and their local collaborators, was a wholly justifiable tactic of a war of national liberation. And it was the Nazi occupiers of Europe during World War II who characterized the work of the French and Czech and Polish Resistance movements, as backed by Britain's Special Operations Executive, as 'terrorism."

Quote: Copyright 2000 The Press Association Limited

I see absolutely no point in this post. The Nazis were the aggressors. In the Mideast, the Ottoman Empire were the aggressors. Is it possible for you to see my point or must I type slower?

 

[Just the Facts]

Re: RE: Question regarding this latest mid-east conflict.

Yes, when you kill people in their own country/home and you fail to truly justify it, you just turn their family members into fanatics. Now you have more enemies to demonize.

I guess I should be a fanatic then. My parents were refugees. Refugees among millions upon millions of refuges in WW2. How come only the Palestinians are still refugees generations later. My mother's family lost a three hundred acre farm without compensation. Should I be blowing things up?

 

[elevennevele]

Re: RE: Question regarding th

You are comparing the US occupation of Iraq with the intent of Muslims to destroy my familial homeland of Great Britain? Did Iraq ever attack US troops? No. Did troops of the Ottoman Empire attack British troops? Yes. Do not compare the two situations. The Ottoman Turks were allied with our enemy the Germans. We smashed both the Germans and the Ottoman Turks who owned Palestine. Spoils of war here yes. Had the Ottoman Empire not been stupid enough to attack British outposts they would not have lost their Empire. You attack an innocent people you suffer the consequences. The Arabs brought all of this upon themselves. You know it. I know it and the world knows it. Ye reap what ye sow.

What point are you making? I don’t see it. What aspects of history should we use to define everyone’s life thereafter?

No, I’m not making a comparison in the sense you are defining it. I’m just pointing out that any victor of war from you postings does not give them the right in this age to commit crimes on a populous based on victory or occupation. That you cannot truly justify displacing people by the reasoning you’ve given or to commit abuse on such people. It’s highly contradictory to a respect for life, and if you can’t recognize that then what else can I say to you? You only punish the innocent.

That your comment, “spoils of war” is a way of removing the human element from the equation in that the problem is some kind of administrative issue where the controlling power/force has some sort of jurisdiction beyond the humane treatment of human beings and their own personal history.

No, that is just wrong. Unfortunately it happens because people such as yourself create semantics to justify it.

 

[elevennevele]

Re: RE: Question regarding th

I know it and the world knows it. Ye reap what ye sow.

Whose world? Speak for yourself.

Honestly, I don't think the world supports just one side in this situation. I only know of the USA using veto power against holding Israel to be accountable for crimes it’s committed. That says something.

 

[elevennevele]

Re: RE: Question regarding th

You have heard about the referenda, the Parti Quebecois, the Block Quebecois, a federal party who once was the Queens Loyal Opposition whose mandate is the division of Canada, right? How come we're not blowing things up? Home come we don't have suicide bombers blowing up people in Van Houte's in Quebec?

Did you not get the declaimer? It was an ANALOGY based on outside interference. A hypothisis! There is no such reality I illustrated between the French and the rest of Canada. It’s a hypothisis.

“OUTSIDE INTERFERENCE” as an hypothesis to just understand how outside interference can create a mess between people as maybe we could understand it. I only used Canada to make the anology for the reality of Israelis and Palestinians. I could have tried making the illustration with some other country. That wasn’t the point.

Come on, don’t make me have to explain this more.

Here, I’ll bold it...

“Please... for whoever doesn’t get that I’m making an anology, think before speaking out.“

 

[Kreskin]

elevennevele, in all of your posts you have sleected "disable bbcode". That's why the quotes aren't formatting.

 

[elevennevele]

Re: RE: Question regarding th

How come we're not blowing things up? Home come we don't have suicide bombers blowing up people in Van Houte's in Quebec?

That aside, perhaps you should at least know...
(but let's not go farther off topic and stick to Israelis/Palistinian issues)

...


The FLQ was a group of Québécois founded in February of 1963, by three Rassemblement pour l'indépendance nationale members, Georges Schoeters, Raymond Villeneuve, and Gabriel Hudon, who had met each other as part of the "Réseau de résistance." The FLQ's intellectual leaders were Charles Gagnon and Pierre Vallières. (Schoeters was charged with terrorism on October 7, 1963, and was subsequently convicted and sentenced to two five-year prison terms.)

Members and sympathizers of the group were called Felquistes ([fɛlˈkists] in IPA), a word coined from the French pronunciation of the letters FLQ. Some of the members were organized and trained by Schoeters, a Belgian revolutionary and alleged KGB agent, whose hero was Che Guevara. At least two of the FLQ members had also received guerrilla training in selective assassination from Palestinian commandos in Jordan. Various cells emerged over time: The Viger Cell, the Dieppe Cell, the Louis Riel Cell, the Nelson Cell, The Saint-Denis Cell, the Liberation Cell and the Chénier Cell. The latter two of these cells were involved in what became known as the "October Crisis," the first terrorist crisis in modern Canadian history.

From 1963 to 1970, the FLQ committed over 200 violent political actions, including bombings, bank hold-ups and at least three killings by FLQ bombs and two killings by gunfire. In 1963, Gabriel Hudon and Raymond Villeneuve were sentenced to 12 years in prison for crimes against the state after their bomb killed Sgt. O'Neill, a watchman at Montreal's Canadian Army Recruitment Centre. By 1970, twenty-three members of the FLQ were in jail, including four convicted murderers, and one member had been killed by his own bomb. Targets included English owned businesses, banks, McGill University, Loyola College, and the homes of prominent English speakers in the wealthy Westmount area of the city. On February 13, 1969 the Front de libération du Québec set off a powerful bomb that ripped through the Montreal Stock Exchange causing massive destruction and seriously injuring twenty-seven people.

 

[elevennevele]

Re: RE: Question regarding th

And before you say anything further, with regards to the Israelis/Palestinian issue, I find the French tend to have more of a better perspective on the issue than Western Canada. From what I have encountered.

 

[elevennevele]

Re: RE: Question regarding this latest mid-east conflict.

I see absolutely no point in this post. The Nazis were the aggressors. In the Mideast, the Ottoman Empire were the aggressors. Is it possible for you to see my point or must I type slower?

No need to get insulting SaintLucifer, You may be throwing rocks in a glass house. The point I made wasn’t that the Nazis weren’t bad, the point was that even the “good guys” can justify terrorism as an act when they are in need to use it against an ‘evil’ opponent.

For the WWII Resistance movements, and for their British backers in SOE who had been ordered by Prime Minister Winston Churchill to "set Europe ablaze," they were freedom fighters. Their clandestine work of sabotage and ambush, destroying bridges and railroads, assassinating German officials and their local collaborators, was a wholly justifiable tactic of a war of national liberation. And it was the Nazi occupiers of Europe during World War II who characterized the work of the French and Czech and Polish Resistance movements, as backed by Britain's Special Operations Executive, as 'terrorism."

Quote: Copyright 2000 The Press Association Limited

 

[Kreskin]

Re: RE: Question regarding this latest mid-east conflict.

elevennevele, in all of your posts you have sleected "disable bbcode". That's why the quotes aren't formatting.

Hello elevennevele

 

[elevennevele]

Re: RE: Question regarding this latest mid-east conflict.

elevennevele, in all of your posts you have sleected "disable bbcode". That's why the quotes aren't formatting.

Thanks Kreskin, I noticed my format wasn't working but the discussion was more important than to source the problem.

Thanks.

 

[Kreskin]

It's hard to follow the posts that way.