Quantum physics and logic.

socratus

socratus
Dec 10, 2008
1,119
17
38
Israel
www.worldnpa.org
Quantum physics and logic.
---
By idea, a good scientific theory must have three components: arena, stuff and a set of physics laws.
In quantum theory these three components look strange:
1- the arena is really unknown, an math imaginary ''an absolute four-dimensional spacetime''
2 - the stuff is ‘’like-seems-particles’’ and ‘’like-seems-waves’’ which have ''like-seems-spin''
which when ''collapses" needs "method of renormalization" to bring itself back to existence.
3- the essences of quantum laws have probability basis.
Under these circumstances we are chess players who attempt to play an imaginary game
on the imaginary checkerboard of world.
-----
Therefore we can read strange comments about Quantum theory:
''I think I can safely say that nobody understands quantum mechanics''
/Richard Feynman/
“The truth is, everyone is confused by quantum physics.”
/David Walton/
''If you are not completely confused by quantum mechanics, you do not understand it''
/ John Wheeler /
''Quantum mechanics makes absolutely no sense''
/Roger Penrose/
‘’Philosophy of quantum physics is certainly not the place where logic lives.’’
/Somebody wrote/
======
 

Attachments

  • Quantum-P-I-.jpg
    Quantum-P-I-.jpg
    23.7 KB · Views: 0

socratus

socratus
Dec 10, 2008
1,119
17
38
Israel
www.worldnpa.org
Quantum physics was created between 1900-1928.
All modern technology (computers, smartphones, etc.)
was created according to these “old” laws.
No "new" laws of quantum physics have been developed, . . .
but these "old" laws are still "weird, confusing, etc."
nearly 100 years after they were discovered.
-------
 

Attachments

  • QP -  Penrose.jpg
    QP - Penrose.jpg
    47.7 KB · Views: 2

The_Foxer

House Member
Aug 9, 2022
3,084
1,837
113
Like much of what you post here, that is wildly inaccurate. They have discovered much since 1928 and many new 'laws' so to speak have been uncovered. Tonnes of new discoveries, new formulas and theories all that good stuff. Quantum physics was just barely getting started in 1928

Why do you post? You obviously don't understand this stuff? If you want to learn then ask questions.
 

Dexter Sinister

Unspecified Specialist
Oct 1, 2004
10,168
536
113
Regina, SK
Indeed. The so-called "standard model" was developed mostly in the latter half of the previous century, and was more or less finalized with the experimental confirmation of quarks. Since then the top quark, the tau neutrino, and the Higgs boson have been experimentally confirmed, lending further strength to the model, though there are some holes in it. It doesn't accommodate gravity, for instance, or dark matter and energy and their effects, so there's a way to go yet.
 

The_Foxer

House Member
Aug 9, 2022
3,084
1,837
113
Indeed. The so-called "standard model" was developed mostly in the latter half of the previous century, and was more or less finalized with the experimental confirmation of quarks. Since then the top quark, the tau neutrino, and the Higgs boson have been experimentally confirmed, lending further strength to the model, though there are some holes in it. It doesn't accommodate gravity, for instance, or dark matter and energy and their effects, so there's a way to go yet.
True. Hell they JUST proved quantum entanglement is a 100 percent thing (rather than the 'preexisting conditions' theory )
 

socratus

socratus
Dec 10, 2008
1,119
17
38
Israel
www.worldnpa.org
1900. Quantum physics began when Planck solved the "black body" problem,
which Max von Laue called the "Kirchhoff's vacuum"
1927. Quantum physics ended when Dirac discovered the existence
of dualistic virtual particles (E=±MC²) in a "vacuum sea".
Conclusion
It is impossibe understand quantum physics without the cosmic vacuum.
 

Attachments

  • Vacuum-cotains-all-of-being.jpg
    Vacuum-cotains-all-of-being.jpg
    8.3 KB · Views: 1

Jinentonix

Hall of Fame Member
Sep 6, 2015
10,607
5,250
113
Olympus Mons
''If you are not completely confused by quantum mechanics, you do not understand it''
/ John Wheeler
Well I guess everyone understands it then, right?

Also, to state that "quantum physics is certainly not the place where logic lives" shows a bit of ignorance of the subject. The entire field of quantum physics arose from a series of experimental observations of atoms that didn't make intuitive sense in the context of classical physics. In other words, they didn't behave like the standard, allegedly logical, physics models had predicted. Nor could their behaviour be reconciled using the standard physics models.

I also don't really think there's anything particularly illogical about the concept of superposition. In simplest terms superposition can be thought of as an equation that has more than one solution. Even basic algebra involves superposition. If x2=4 then x can be either 2 or -2.
I mean shit, I find the math easier to understand than how in the hell they actually managed to translate it into inventing everyday things like lasers and transistors and microchips.
I mean if people are developing practical applications for quantum mechanics, then obviously there are people who aren't completely confused by it.
 

socratus

socratus
Dec 10, 2008
1,119
17
38
Israel
www.worldnpa.org
''If you are not completely confused by quantum mechanics, you do not understand it''
/ John Wheeler
Well I guess everyone understands it then, right?

Also, to state that "quantum physics is certainly not the place where logic lives" shows a bit of ignorance of the subject. The entire field of quantum physics arose from a series of experimental observations of atoms that didn't make intuitive sense in the context of classical physics. In other words, they didn't behave like the standard, allegedly logical, physics models had predicted. Nor could their behaviour be reconciled using the standard physics models.

I also don't really think there's anything particularly illogical about the concept of superposition. In simplest terms superposition can be thought of as an equation that has more than one solution. Even basic algebra involves superposition. If x2=4 then x can be either 2 or -2.
I mean shit, I find the math easier to understand than how in the hell they actually managed to translate it into inventing everyday things like lasers and transistors and microchips.
I mean if people are developing practical applications for quantum mechanics, then obviously there are people who aren't completely confused by it.
 

Attachments

  • Eddington 2+2=4.jpg
    Eddington 2+2=4.jpg
    17.9 KB · Views: 2

55Mercury

rigid member
May 31, 2007
4,272
987
113
I've found the perfect movie for all you quantum shmantum mental masturbation enthusiasts.

It's called Cube 2: Hypercube

You might want to smoke something a little more powerful than what you're used to. It'll be a scapegoat for your fragile synapses.
 

Jinentonix

Hall of Fame Member
Sep 6, 2015
10,607
5,250
113
Olympus Mons
I've found the perfect movie for all you quantum shmantum mental masturbation enthusiasts.

It's called Cube 2: Hypercube

You might want to smoke something a little more powerful than what you're used to. It'll be a scapegoat for your fragile synapses.
Sooo maybe do a little peyote or some mescaline? Because the stuff I normally smoke is in the 35%+ range. 🥴
 

55Mercury

rigid member
May 31, 2007
4,272
987
113
Because the stuff I normally smoke is in the 35%+ range. 🥴
is that the stuff we used to call "wheelchair" or "paranoia pot"?

though ever since it's been legalized the paranoia aspect of it just vanished into a puff of smoke!

I bet that would even work with crack cocaine.
 

Taxslave2

House Member
Aug 13, 2022
2,533
1,511
113
I have never experienced the paranoia aspect of pot. My wife does, even with relatively low quality pot. I think it is related to personality.
 

55Mercury

rigid member
May 31, 2007
4,272
987
113
Sooo maybe do a little peyote or some mescaline?
These do kinda shake up the quantum divinations lurking in our sub-consciousness.

Maybe bring along Jimmy and the shaman.

I always regarded the two as basically the same. one natural, one synthetic, like pot and synthetic THC.

having done both in my youth, and with enough time passed between experiences, I didn't really notice all that much difference between them.

I wonder about that worm, though, in that bottle of mezcal.

cinco de mayo awaits

"Debates today about the continuing relationship, if any, between peyote and mescaline bear the scars of this longer history of colonialism and the extraction of plant matter from cultural practices. How we understand the relationship between peyote and mescaline is important for scientific and ecological reasons but questioning this relationship should also encourage us to think about the cultural histories of mescaline and peyote—which come from very different traditions. Established through different cultural practices and knowledge systems, peyote and mescaline are vastly different. It is important to honour the original and diverse set of plant-based roots of mescaline, but to also recognize that its isolation and synthesis, now sets it on a different historical trajectory." https://chacruna.net/peyote-mescaline-history/
 
  • Like
Reactions: Jinentonix

socratus

socratus
Dec 10, 2008
1,119
17
38
Israel
www.worldnpa.org
The problem with structure of Electric-Field
----.
Maxwell's classical electrodynamics is determined and obeys Galilean transformations.
But the further development of Maxwell's theory led to strange facts:
1 - Maxwell's continuous field became discrete
2 - laws have become probabilistic
3 - the theory took on a dualistic form
4 - the theory became subject to Lorentz transformations
The strange facts were called "Quantum theory"
-------.
In contrast to classical electrodynamics, in quantum physics there is a gap between
the field and the particle: in one experemeht the quantum particle behaves as a corpuscular,
in other - like a wave. From a theoretical point of view, this gap seems impossible,
because these pairs complement each other and do not allow one-sided elimination
without violating the situation in the whole quantum theory.
The problem is: to explain "duality" of quantum particles, to connect two discrete parts
(wave and corpuscular), and this problem has not been solved for more than 100 years.
A simple question: does a wave create particles, or does a quantum particle create waves?
If a quantum particle creates waves, how does it create them?
-----------…
 

Attachments

  • Eddington 2+2=4.jpg
    Eddington 2+2=4.jpg
    17.9 KB · Views: 0

socratus

socratus
Dec 10, 2008
1,119
17
38
Israel
www.worldnpa.org
The problem with structure of Electric-Field
----.
Maxwell's classical electrodynamics is determined and obeys Galilean transformations.
But the further development of Maxwell's theory led to strange facts:
1 - Maxwell's continuous field became discrete
2 - laws have become probabilistic
3 - the theory took on a dualistic form
4 - the theory became subject to Lorentz transformations
The strange facts were called "Quantum theory"
-------.
In contrast to classical electrodynamics, in quantum physics there is a gap between
the field and the particle: in one experemeht the quantum particle behaves as a corpuscular,
in other - like a wave. From a theoretical point of view, this gap seems impossible,
because these pairs complement each other and do not allow one-sided elimination
without violating the situation in the whole quantum theory.
The problem is: to explain "duality" of quantum particles, to connect two discrete parts
(wave and corpuscular), and this problem has not been solved for more than 100 years.
A simple question: does a wave create particles, or does a quantum particle create waves?
If a quantum particle creates waves, how does it create them?
-----------…
Correction:
Maxwell's classical electrodynamics is determined, but not subject
to Galilean transformations (because speed of light in Maxwell's theory is constant)
----
------
 

socratus

socratus
Dec 10, 2008
1,119
17
38
Israel
www.worldnpa.org
"Problem" of Quantum Duality (particle & wave)
Maybe are both? How are both? How can One be both?
1 - Quantum particle cannot create wave at constant speed (c) by linear spin (it behaves as corpuscular)
2 - Quantum particle can create wave by angular spin (it behaves like wave)
The structure and abilities of quantum particles depend on the absence of spin or the presence of spin (h) or (h*bar)
-----
 

Attachments

  • Duality-W-P.jpg
    Duality-W-P.jpg
    49.1 KB · Views: 2