Prince of Wales becomes oldest heir to the Throne for 300 years

hunboldt

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In the Westminster system of Britain and Canada the only people who can vote for a Prime Minister are those who live in his constituency, and they can vote for him as their MP. We vote for PARTIES, not PMs.

I wonder when it was that a British or Canadian PM ever lost his seat during a General Election but his party remained in power. It's a very rare and unusual occurence. I suppose PMs always run in safe seats.

1926 in Canada, and the circumstances were 'dodgy' The governor General, Lord Byng, rose to the occasion.
The Same Julian Byng , in 1914, met the landing of Sam Hughes 'division', a "motley untrained invasion of Britain led by a madman" so he was prepared..
 

Blackleaf

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1926 in Canada, and the circumstances were 'dodgy' The governor General, Lord Byng, rose to the occasion.
The Same Julian Byng , in 1914, met the landing of Sam Hughes 'division', a "motley untrained invasion of Britain led by a madman" so he was prepared..

The interestingly-named King-Byng Affair.

It seems that, despite losing his seat, PM King refused to resign.

In Britain, were a PM to lose his seat during a General Election but his party wins the election, his party would offer up a candidate to take over temporarily as a caretaker leader/prime minister. The Queen (or, at some point in the future, the King) would then call the potential prime minister to Buckingham Palace to ask him whether he would form a government. The governing party would then hold a leadership election.

The exact same would probably happen in Canada, too, but with the Governor-General representing the monarch.

As far as I know, a British PM has never lost his seat with his party going on to WIN the election.
 

hunboldt

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The interestingly-named King-Byng Affair.

It seems that, despite losing his seat, PM King refused to resign.

In Britain, were a PM to lose his seat during a General Election but his party wins the election, his party would offer up a candidate to take over temporarily as a caretaker leader/prime minister. The Queen (or, at some point in the future, the King) would then call the potential prime minister to Buckingham Palace to ask him whether he would form a government. The governing party would then hold a leadership election.

The exact same would probably happen in Canada, too, but with the Governor-General representing the monarch.

As far as I know, a British PM has never lost his seat with his party going on to WIN the election.


King was banking on the vision that he could either form an alliance with the progressives, or that Arthur Meaghan and the Cons would hang themselves,- which they did.
 

Blackleaf

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King was banking on the vision that he could either form an alliance with the progressives, or that Arthur Meaghan and the Cons would hang themselves,- which they did.

Once someone has power they find it hard to let it go.
 

tober

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I disagree.

In Britain and Canada we vote for a certain party, usually because we like that party's policies. The leader of that party usually reflects the party's policies, so a lot of the time it doesn't matter who the leader is. We go for the party and its policies, not a person.

Our system is better than that in America, in which Americans elect a person - the President - rather than a political party with certain policies. They tend to focus more on the personality of the candidates and vote for the one they like best, and policies are less important.

In Britain and Canada it's the governing party and its policies which are deemed important.

In America it's the personality of the person standing for office which counts.

In Canada political parties do not exist in our constitution. Nor is the prime minister referred to in the constitution. Members of the party caucus elect the PM as their group leader as a convenience decided by party rules. In theory any PM can be removed from his office as PM (but not as MP) at any time by majority vote by the elected MP's. That happened to Maggie Thatcher.

Politicians run as party members to maximize their chances. Nothing stops anybody from running as an independent. Every election some people do and some of them get elected. The fact that people in parties form the majority of elected MP's is proof that party members have a better chance of getting elected. As many people have said in the past, our system of government is deeply faulted, but it's better than whatever is second best.

King was banking on the vision that he could either form an alliance with the progressives, or that Arthur Meaghan and the Cons would hang themselves,- which they did.

King also had visions about his mother and his dog, so what can we say?
 

PoliticalNick

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I partly agree with what you say, Nick, but in this case there are other considerations, firstly Christy Clark pretty well won the election in May single handedly against what was seen by the pollsters as insurmountable odds. She has to be given credit for that. She lost her own seat (which by the way WASN'T in her home riding to begin with) where SHE spent virtually no time campaigning. She has followed the rules which are the same for all politicians be they Liberal, Cons or N.D.P. etc. so the playing field is level. Of course when she in the West Kelowna riding she didn't own property there at the time but she is planning to buy a house and live there, but you might appreciate that could take a few months. Had she have won Vancouver - Point Grey would YOU really have accepted that as she didn't live there? As far as run off elections are concerned it's been proven that over the long haul the results wouldn't be any better than "first past the post" and the expense would be intolerable. Right now to have a provincial election costs several $million, do you really want to double or triple that, when at the "end of the day" the results aren't going to be much different in most cases? In any case I think we have a strong politician to run the province, which is the way it should be. With Adrian Dix we'd have just ended up with more bureaucrats serving more minorities. We want a balanced situation of employment, prosperity and a safe and healthy environment and I believe with Christy that is achievable. And she's not going to bow for the Union "heavies".
JLM...I don't believe in people running outside the riding where they reside at all. No for Krusty, not for anyone. I am a staunch supporter of radical election and political reform because this farce that is perpetrated upon the people every so often does nothing to actually represent the will of the majority of people.

Just a few changes would make a huge difference in how politicians did their job and how the system would quickly favor individuals over corporations and parties.....
1- Outlaw parties, everyone has to run as an independent. That is how it is formatted in the constitution and how it should be. It is far better to elect someone whose only loyalty is to the people who vote for them.
2- You must run where you live. That means on election day and during the campaign. If you can't win there but think you can win elsewhere then move before you start or take your loss and move before the next election.
3- Require an actual majority of votes to win a seat. I know you rail against the cost but really in this day & age we could easily all vote from home. An initial investment in software and security and after that it is extremely cheap.
4- Give the people more powers for recall. The laws surrounding this right now make it all but impossible to recall any elected official. This needs to change. If they have no fear of losing their job they have no reason to listen to their constituents.
5- Most important of all enact a law or constitutional amendment requiring them to adhere to the will of their constituents rather than follow the party line. Of course if there are no parties and they face the possibility of being fired all the time they will most likely not have to worry about this type of law because they will be beholden to the people who vote for them and nobody else.
6- Finance reform. Make corporate donations and sponsorship illegal. The elected are supposed to represent the citizens. A corporation is a fictional legal entity and has no worth or standing in an election but the politicians, through their party affiliations, become under the sway of these legal fictions through money. It needs to go and it is where we should start if we as citizens want a govt that represents us instead of corporate CEOs.

These are just a few common sense suggestions to get started but easily define some of the glaring problems in our system.
 

Blackleaf

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In Canada political parties do not exist in our constitution. Nor is the prime minister referred to in the constitution. Members of the party caucus elect the PM as their group leader as a convenience decided by party rules. In theory any PM can be removed from his office as PM (but not as MP) at any time by majority vote by the elected MP's. That happened to Maggie Thatcher.

The British Prime Minister also does not exist by any constitution or law. In 1806, for example, one member of the Commons said, "the Constitution abhors the idea of a prime minister".

In fact, the British Prime Minister has only been officially called that for just over 100 years. The official title of the Prime Minister used to be First Lord of the Treasury, a title which the British PM still holds.

The brass plate on the door of the Prime Minister's home, 10 Downing Street, still bears the title of "First Lord of the Treasury", as it has since the 18th century.

Since the office of PM was not created, there is no "first" Prime Minister. However, the honorary appellation is traditionally given to Sir Robert Walpole who became First Lord of the Treasury in 1721.

Prime Minister started to be used as another name for the First Lord of the Treasury in 1805, but it wasn't given official recognition until 1905. That means that Arthur Balfour - PM from 1902 to the end of 1905 - was the first British PM to be officially called PM.
 

tober

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In fact, the British Prime Minister has only been officially called that for just over 100 years. The official title of the Prime Minister used to be First Lord of the Treasury, a title which the British PM still holds.

The brass plate on the door of the Prime Minister's home, 10 Downing Street, still bears the title of "First Lord of the Treasury", as it has since the 18th century.

Since the office of PM was not created, there is no "first" Prime Minister. However, the honorary appellation is traditionally given to Sir Robert Walpole who became First Lord of the Treasury in 1721.

Prime Minister started to be used as another name for the First Lord of the Treasury in 1805, but it wasn't given official recognition until 1905. That means that Arthur Balfour - PM from 1902 to the end of 1905 - was the first British PM to be officially called PM.

Interesting. I didn't know that. Of course it isn't pertinent to Canada today.