President Harper

[elevennevele]

good point. Although this is a touchy subject, lowering the flags to half-staff should not be such a huge issue. You think Harper doesn't support the troops? Did he not make Afghanistan one of his first visits? Did he not promise to increase military funding so that our army can make a better difference in the world? There are two different takes on this issue, and i think both parties care and grieve just like the rest of us for fallen troops, they just have different ways to show it.

Bush does the same thing. Uses the troops for photo ops. Remember the plastic turkey he brought with him for the Thanksgiving Photo op? He should have brought something that they could have at least eaten, but that wasn't the point. It had to just look really good for the camera.

People are suckers for imagery and symbolism all the time. They just leave their brains behind and simply believe the visual effects. Bush tried that stunt at a factory but it kind of backfired. The media found out he was covering up the "Made in China" labels all over the boxes and putting over it a fake screen depicting boxes that said "Made in the USA".

http://www.cnn.com/2003/ALLPOLITICS/01/22/bush.boxes/index.html

It was all Bullcrap for the public to eat up.

I can't say if or to what extent Harper uses the troops for his political gains but from his conduct to date, I wouldn't put it pass him to do so.


Oh, BTW, Harper put a hold on that spending for the military. Then he muzzled the military brass at the same time.

Yeah, of course we have to believe they are just reviewing everything for their own control and face on it, and we all like to hope they will spend money in the right places as they will claim. However, proof will be in what they actually do. At the same time, this means there now is a wait to get the needed equipment.

Again, the military brass can’t comment now publicly on what they would think is best. And you would think they would know. What’s the problem with hearing about their opinions on equipment? We are not talking about secret weaponry.

http://www.canada.com/ottawacitizen/news/story.html?id=141129bd-ec2a-47a4-bb73-74945b5197f4&k=9146

(first part of article)

Tories freeze all spending on new gear for military
Billions on hold as brass review purchases approved by Liberals

David Pugliese
The Ottawa Citizen

Saturday, April 15, 2006

The purchase of billions of dollars of new equipment for the Canadian Forces is under review as military officers try to sort out what the country can afford and what the Conservative government sees as priorities.

The big-ticket equipment projects, many put into motion last year by the Liberal government's defence policy paper, appear to now be in limbo, defence industry and military officials privately say.

In some cases, military planners are looking at rearranging the order of the purchases. Just before the election, the Liberal government announced it would spend $5 billion on buying replacements for the air force's aging Hercules transport planes. Now officers are re-examining that and looking at the likelihood of moving ahead first with the purchase of larger long-range transport planes, a program favoured by the Harper government.

In another case, there have been discussions about whether some programs should be modified or radically changed.

 

[bluealberta]

Oilberta...Gosh, my province is hated because of its oil
Harper is hated because he is not a liberal or an NDP.. I really don't understand what you guys want...
BE PATIENT ... give the guy sometimes ...he might proove you wrong ... it is still way too early.
He hasn't been in power for 3 months... Did u guys miss the scams of the Liberals already ?

Unbelievable!!!!!!

My thoughts exactly. The Libs had 12 years and did nothing, and now the Lib supporters are upset about Harpers first three months? Gimme a break already.

 

[bluealberta]

Re: RE: President Harper

We might point out to Albertans:
1. the oil belongs to Canada
2. some of the lefties here live in Alberta
3. if your province becomes filthy rich on oil at the expense of the rest of Canada, the rest of Canada is just gonna move to Alberta and the province will sink into the tar sands.

Oh, I gotta answer this one. The Oil belongs to Alberta, just as all resources and resource revenues belong to their respective provinces, as guaranteed by the Constitution. Unless of course you don't believe in the constitution.

Yes some lefties live in Alberta. Last I checked, they got about one third of the provincial seats between them, and, as I recall, none of the federal seats.

Come on out, we got a labor shortage, need good people. Just be prepared to work your ass off, though, cause the rest of us do.

 

[FiveParadox]

This sounds mysteriously like Question Period, in the House of Commons.

Lib: Mr. Speaker, this Conservative Government...

Con: Mr. Speaker, but when the Liberals...

Lib: Mr. Speaker, this Prime Minister...

Con: But Mr. Speaker, the last Prime Minister...

Repeat, ad nauseum.

I think both parties need to grow up a bit here, in the interest of having a productive Thirty-ninth Parliament. Yes, the previous Government of Canada, in particular nearing the end of its term, made some major mistakes — and they were punished for it, being thrown back to the opposition. However, that does not mean that the present Government of Canada can do whatever it wants, under the veil of "Mr. Speaker, but the last government..."

 

[bluealberta]

This sounds mysteriously like Question Period, in the House of Commons.

Lib: Mr. Speaker, this Conservative Government...

Con: Mr. Speaker, but when the Liberals...

Lib: Mr. Speaker, this Prime Minister...

Con: But Mr. Speaker, the last Prime Minister...

Repeat, ad nauseum.

I think both parties need to grow up a bit here, in the interest of having a productive Thirty-ninth Parliament. Yes, the previous Government of Canada, in particular nearing the end of its term, made some major mistakes — and they were punished for it, being thrown back to the opposition. However, that does not mean that the present Government of Canada can do whatever it wants, under the veil of "Mr. Speaker, but the last government..."

Maybe not, five, but damn, it is easy to point out the hypocricy of the Liberal MPS in this parliament. :roll:

 

[Johnny Utah]

Oilberta...Gosh, my province is hated because of its oil
Harper is hated because he is not a liberal or an NDP.. I really don't understand what you guys want...
BE PATIENT ... give the guy sometimes ...he might proove you wrong ... it is still way too early.
He hasn't been in power for 3 months... Did u guys miss the scams of the Liberals already ?

Unbelievable!!!!!!

My thoughts exactly. The Libs had 12 years and did nothing, and now the Lib supporters are upset about Harpers first three months? Gimme a break already.

Exactly! The Liberals are crying foul on everything and attacking Pm Harper with anything because they are bitter, hateful.

They will keep meltingdown and the Conservatives will sit back and laugh their asses off at them sticking their foots in their mouths over and over. :laughing5: :laughing5:

The state of the Liberal party in Canada is in the same state the Democratic Party is in the United States, both parties have no vision no plan.

Edit:This comment on the Liberals does not include Five :lol:

 

[fuzzylogix]

Re: RE: President Harper

We might point out to Albertans:
1. the oil belongs to Canada
2. some of the lefties here live in Alberta
3. if your province becomes filthy rich on oil at the expense of the rest of Canada, the rest of Canada is just gonna move to Alberta and the province will sink into the tar sands.

Oh, I gotta answer this one. The Oil belongs to Alberta, just as all resources and resource revenues belong to their respective provinces, as guaranteed by the Constitution. Unless of course you don't believe in the constitution.

Yes some lefties live in Alberta. Last I checked, they got about one third of the provincial seats between them, and, as I recall, none of the federal seats.

Come on out, we got a labor shortage, need good people. Just be prepared to work your ass off, though, cause the rest of us do.

Aaah- the Albertan who wants the cake and to eat it too.

The provinces have jurisdiction over the natural resources in their province, BUT the federal government has jurisdiction over the trade and commerce of natural resources and international relationships. Therefore, the resources cannot just be dealt with on a provincial level as they are considered to be part of the bargaining power of the entire country, as you know. Therefore, Alberta is mad that it cant just unilaterally make trade agreements for its oil. These have to be federally approved.

Also, if you want to use the constitution as a legal binding agreement then you have to accept Section 36(2) which is the section that ensures equalization payments to provinces less wealthy to ensure comparable levels of public services and taxation in the provinces. Now the Alberta Conservatives bemoan this section as "taking money out of the hands of Albertans". Not at all. Alberta is part of Canada and has been lucky to have oil making it wealthy right now. Forty years ago, Alberta was poor and received equalization payments, but now she would deny other provinces this. Alberta is very quick to ask for Ottawa to help out in crisis times as drought and mad cow infestations, and certainly considers itself part of Canada then.

Also, the entire country is affected by the oil, not just in a financial sense. The projections are that the oil industry in Alberta will create over half of the greenhouse emissions in Canada over the next 10 years. And in fact, the big block to the Kyoto accord is not the car makers, but the oil companies.

Also, the gas reserves of Alberta which are required for the oil production are thought to be nearly depleted. And the provinces with large gas deposits are thought to be the Atlantic ones, BC, and NWT. I am sure Alberta will expect to get cheap gas from the rest of Canada to continue her oil industry when the time comes.

Also, are you going to pay for the military on your own? The main fights in the world as we have seen are going to be over oil. Better shore up those provincial defenses, Alberta.

And finally, whose oil is it? Well, it aint yours. Its the big oil companies--- and if you think Encana cares about helping YOU get some of the money- Well....
Anyway, soon it will be owned by the US and China.

 

[bluealberta]

Re: RE: President Harper

We might point out to Albertans:
1. the oil belongs to Canada
2. some of the lefties here live in Alberta
3. if your province becomes filthy rich on oil at the expense of the rest of Canada, the rest of Canada is just gonna move to Alberta and the province will sink into the tar sands.

Oh, I gotta answer this one. The Oil belongs to Alberta, just as all resources and resource revenues belong to their respective provinces, as guaranteed by the Constitution. Unless of course you don't believe in the constitution.

Yes some lefties live in Alberta. Last I checked, they got about one third of the provincial seats between them, and, as I recall, none of the federal seats.

Come on out, we got a labor shortage, need good people. Just be prepared to work your ass off, though, cause the rest of us do.

Aaah- the Albertan who wants the cake and to eat it too.

The provinces have jurisdiction over the natural resources in their province, BUT the federal government has jurisdiction over the trade and commerce of natural resources and international relationships. Therefore, the resources cannot just be dealt with on a provincial level as they are considered to be part of the bargaining power of the entire country, as you know. Therefore, Alberta is mad that it cant just unilaterally make trade agreements for its oil. These have to be federally approved.

Also, if you want to use the constitution as a legal binding agreement then you have to accept Section 36(2) which is the section that ensures equalization payments to provinces less wealthy to ensure comparable levels of public services and taxation in the provinces. Now the Alberta Conservatives bemoan this section as "taking money out of the hands of Albertans". Not at all. Alberta is part of Canada and has been lucky to have oil making it wealthy right now. Forty years ago, Alberta was poor and received equalization payments, but now she would deny other provinces this. Alberta is very quick to ask for Ottawa to help out in crisis times as drought and mad cow infestations, and certainly considers itself part of Canada then.

Albertans provide almost $3,000 per person to the rest of Canada. I hope the ROC likes the $15k they got from my family. Why should transfer payments keep going to provinces such as Quebec, when they then turn around and demand more for programs that are not available in the rest of the country? Those are not comparable programs, as the ROC does not even have them. So, in effect, we pay for some of the programs dedicated solely to Quebec.

Also, the entire country is affected by the oil, not just in a financial sense. The projections are that the oil industry in Alberta will create over half of the greenhouse emissions in Canada over the next 10 years. And in fact, the big block to the Kyoto accord is not the car makers, but the oil companies.

This is a myth. How will Alberta create these emissions more than, say Ontario? Oil does not by itself create emissions, the users of oil and oil products do, and given that Ontario has more people, ergo more vehicles, they will cause more emissions than Alberta. Did you not ever wonder why the auto industry in Ontario was exempt from Kyoto? Think about it, and you will know.

Also, the gas reserves of Alberta which are required for the oil production are thought to be nearly depleted. And the provinces with large gas deposits are thought to be the Atlantic ones, BC, and NWT. I am sure Alberta will expect to get cheap gas from the rest of Canada to continue her oil industry when the time comes.

Alberta has, per the last study I saw, sources of oil production for the next 300 years, including the tarsands. I am reasonably sure that within that timeframe other sources of energy will be developed. Maybe if the ROC did not take so much from Alberta, your question about what happens to Alberta when the oil runs out would be moot, as we could keep the money here in Alberta against that possible scenario. Just a thought, mind you!

Also, are you going to pay for the military on your own? The main fights in the world as we have seen are going to be over oil. Better shore up those provincial defenses, Alberta.

Oh please, do you know where Cold Lake is, or where Malstrom in Montana is? That argument is just specious.

And finally, whose oil is it? Well, it aint yours. Its the big oil companies--- and if you think Encana cares about helping YOU get some of the money- Well....
Anyway, soon it will be owned by the US and China.

Final thought: if you think the oil companies make a lot of money off oil resources, have you taken a look at what the feds rake in as far as taxes on resource revenue goes? Ever wonder why the current price of gas at the pumps in the States is about 25 cents per litre less than it is in Canada? Taxes, my friends, lots and lots of taxes. Compared to this, the money the oil companies make is relative peanuts.

 

[fuzzylogix]

Re: RE: President Harper

We might point out to Albertans:
1. the oil belongs to Canada
2. some of the lefties here live in Alberta
3. if your province becomes filthy rich on oil at the expense of the rest of Canada, the rest of Canada is just gonna move to Alberta and the province will sink into the tar sands.

Oh, I gotta answer this one. The Oil belongs to Alberta, just as all resources and resource revenues belong to their respective provinces, as guaranteed by the Constitution. Unless of course you don't believe in the constitution.

Yes some lefties live in Alberta. Last I checked, they got about one third of the provincial seats between them, and, as I recall, none of the federal seats.

Come on out, we got a labor shortage, need good people. Just be prepared to work your ass off, though, cause the rest of us do.

Aaah- the Albertan who wants the cake and to eat it too.

The provinces have jurisdiction over the natural resources in their province, BUT the federal government has jurisdiction over the trade and commerce of natural resources and international relationships. Therefore, the resources cannot just be dealt with on a provincial level as they are considered to be part of the bargaining power of the entire country, as you know. Therefore, Alberta is mad that it cant just unilaterally make trade agreements for its oil. These have to be federally approved.

Also, if you want to use the constitution as a legal binding agreement then you have to accept Section 36(2) which is the section that ensures equalization payments to provinces less wealthy to ensure comparable levels of public services and taxation in the provinces. Now the Alberta Conservatives bemoan this section as "taking money out of the hands of Albertans". Not at all. Alberta is part of Canada and has been lucky to have oil making it wealthy right now. Forty years ago, Alberta was poor and received equalization payments, but now she would deny other provinces this. Alberta is very quick to ask for Ottawa to help out in crisis times as drought and mad cow infestations, and certainly considers itself part of Canada then.

Albertans provide almost $3,000 per person to the rest of Canada. I hope the ROC likes the $15k they got from my family. Why should transfer payments keep going to provinces such as Quebec, when they then turn around and demand more for programs that are not available in the rest of the country? Those are not comparable programs, as the ROC does not even have them. So, in effect, we pay for some of the programs dedicated solely to Quebec.

Also, the entire country is affected by the oil, not just in a financial sense. The projections are that the oil industry in Alberta will create over half of the greenhouse emissions in Canada over the next 10 years. And in fact, the big block to the Kyoto accord is not the car makers, but the oil companies.

This is a myth. How will Alberta create these emissions more than, say Ontario? Oil does not by itself create emissions, the users of oil and oil products do, and given that Ontario has more people, ergo more vehicles, they will cause more emissions than Alberta. Did you not ever wonder why the auto industry in Ontario was exempt from Kyoto? Think about it, and you will know.

Also, the gas reserves of Alberta which are required for the oil production are thought to be nearly depleted. And the provinces with large gas deposits are thought to be the Atlantic ones, BC, and NWT. I am sure Alberta will expect to get cheap gas from the rest of Canada to continue her oil industry when the time comes.

Alberta has, per the last study I saw, sources of oil production for the next 300 years, including the tarsands. I am reasonably sure that within that timeframe other sources of energy will be developed. Maybe if the ROC did not take so much from Alberta, your question about what happens to Alberta when the oil runs out would be moot, as we could keep the money here in Alberta against that possible scenario. Just a thought, mind you!

Also, are you going to pay for the military on your own? The main fights in the world as we have seen are going to be over oil. Better shore up those provincial defenses, Alberta.

Oh please, do you know where Cold Lake is, or where Malstrom in Montana is? That argument is just specious.

And finally, whose oil is it? Well, it aint yours. Its the big oil companies--- and if you think Encana cares about helping YOU get some of the money- Well....
Anyway, soon it will be owned by the US and China.

Final thought: if you think the oil companies make a lot of money off oil resources, have you taken a look at what the feds rake in as far as taxes on resource revenue goes? Ever wonder why the current price of gas at the pumps in the States is about 25 cents per litre less than it is in Canada? Taxes, my friends, lots and lots of taxes. Compared to this, the money the oil companies make is relative peanuts.

Blue Blue Blue like the cyanotic hue
From the apoplexy of sharing with Quebec.

1. You quickly quote the constitution until the sections dont suit you. Equalization payments are designed based on tax structures to ensure that the cost of public programs and taxation in each province are not outrageously dissimilar. Quebec, as the most populous have not province receives payments. This has nothing to do with the French question so take your bigoted debates about that to another thread. I live in Ontario, the ONLY province to NEVER have received equalization payments. Alberta received payments from 1957- 1964, at the time when she was developing her oil industry. IN FACT, it is recognized that these subsidies from the rest of her countrys citizens enabled Alberta to develop and become the rich province it is. So now you can pay ME back. (And in fact in polls, 55% of Albertans agreed that natural resources are to be shared with the country--guess we know you were in the 45%)

2. If you dont think the oil industry creates pollution then you better study its production. First there is the heavy burning of gas and use of water to extract and produce it. But one of the big problems is the methane released during the tapping of the oil. Now your own countrymen know about this cause they can smell it. The statistics about producing half of the greenhouse emissions in Canada are not mine---look em up. The oil companies could tap the gas and use it but it is not lucrative enough for them to bother so they just let it out. Much as other Albertans, I expect.

3. Your gas needed for production energy is running out. That is why Alberta is now deciding to put in nuclear plants to keep the energy running.

4. Actually I have friends who have flown jets from Cold Lake and they cant guarantee your defence.

5. Final thought for you. The government revenues your province is raking in from the oil have been dramatically reduced over the past years. This is due not to federal taxation, but to the provincial policy started by Getty and continued by Klein which reduced royalty rates and taxes to ensure investment. However, now that investment is rolling, the government has not changed these incentives. So STILL, by the Generic Royalty Regime, oil sand companies can write off 100% of their capital costs (other companies are 30%) and they dont have to pay any royalties to the government until they have achieved a guaranteed rate of return on their investment. In fact, in 1999- 2000, your government collected more revenue from its HOTEL ROOM TAX than from the oil companies. Now, I think you are being ripped off but not by me---on top of this, Klein wanted to privatize health care---Yeah, cause he hasnt got any money for public health care.

As for stocking away money and clearing the debts. Well if you compare Alberta to a similar place, Norway, who has similar oil production costs with similar populaation needs over the past 30 years, the NOrway Petroleum Fund (for the public use ) stands now at $165 Billion US, and only uses ethical investing. Alberta after the same time and production has in its Heritage fund....$14.3 Billion. I would ask the rich CEOs of your oil companies where your money is, not Quebec.

 

[#juan]

It is really funny how short Alberta memories are.

Alberta once was a "have not" province, and received equalization payments from the rest of Canada. Now, with oil and gas prices skyrocketing, the shoe is on the other foot and Alberta whines about paying money to the less fortunate provinces but gave money away to the oil companies. Chavez in Venuzuela made a much better deal for that country's oil.

 

[fuzzylogix]

He sure did. So did Norway, Alaska and Libya.

 

[sanch]

Very well argued fuzzylogix. Thanks! I especially liked the comparison with Norway: “$165 Billion US, and only uses ethical investing. Alberta after the same time and production has in its Heritage fund....$14.3 Billion.” Wow!! It is somewhat telling that the same group of individuals who got so thoroughly fleeced by US investors now want to privatize health care.

What comes to mind is this example. About a decade ago when Foxwoods casino opened I went down for a look. What amazed me was the different forms of available credit for gamblers who had gone through their cash. There were some pretty high stakes tables. There was a booth though where one could quickly refinance one’s home. This option only lasted about 6 months and then was closed. I suspect there were too many husbands/fathers looking for one last chance to recoup their losses and were willing to gamble the security of their family.

So Albertans have been busy at the roulette table . They haven’t done well at all, comparatively if we use the above example with Norway. Now they want to gamble away our public health care system. On the surface it seems like extremely reckless behavior. Maybe they have an explanation.

 

[aeon]

Oilberta...Gosh, my province is hated because of its oil
Harper is hated because he is not a liberal or an NDP.. I really don't understand what you guys want...
BE PATIENT ... give the guy sometimes ...he might proove you wrong ... it is still way too early.
He hasn't been in power for 3 months... Did u guys miss the scams of the Liberals already ?

Unbelievable!!!!!!

The scams from the liberals will not blind us all from what the conservatives wants to do, dont bring the ""clinton did worst than bush""" looser mentality in this discussion.

 

[Said1]

China had a great deal to do with the development of Alberta's tar sands too, it would be interesting to see the size of the debt, divided up by owee.

 

[fuzzylogix]

China actually all ready owns 40% of one of the oil companies. It is currently in negotiations for others including UTS Energy and Canada Oil Sands. It also wants to be a 49% investor in a $2 billion 720 mile pipeline from Edmonton to the west coast so it can quickly move oil to China. So yes, all ready profits are being reaped in many ways by China.

Main problem to all of this???

Washington aint pleased, aint pleased at all.

 

[I think not]

Re: RE: President Harper

Washington aint pleased, aint pleased at all.

The question should be, are Canadians pleased, why do you care if Washington is pleased with it or not? If it isn't the US pumping your oil, it's China, either way YOU LOSE.

 

[sanch]

Well Canadians should not be pleased as it is still a sell out.

I've been over reliant on the Economist for my news on the tars sands and they always refer to entourages of US representatives visiting Alberta. Plus I was a bit distracted by all the charges of American brown nosing the Albertans have been charged with.

Quite a revelation about the Chinese for me.

 

[Johnny Utah]

Oilberta...Gosh, my province is hated because of its oil
Harper is hated because he is not a liberal or an NDP.. I really don't understand what you guys want...
BE PATIENT ... give the guy sometimes ...he might proove you wrong ... it is still way too early.
He hasn't been in power for 3 months... Did u guys miss the scams of the Liberals already ?

Unbelievable!!!!!!

The scams from the liberals will not blind us all from what the conservatives wants to do, dont bring the ""clinton did worst than bush""" looser mentality in this discussion.

Oh no the Evil Conservatives. Clinton was worse then Bush..
How do You like them Apples?

 

[Said1]

Re: RE: President Harper

Washington aint pleased, aint pleased at all.

The question should be, are Canadians pleased, why do you care if Washington is pleased with it or not? If it isn't the US pumping your oil, it's China, either way YOU LOSE.

Not really, the 05/06 royalties alone are about 1 billion dollars. This doesn't include taxes. I'm not sure if this is in the post or pre-pay out stage, but it's still a lot.

 

[fuzzylogix]

1 Billion is peanuts. Follow Chavez!!!!!!