Preemptive War Criminals

[Andem]

*turns you all into newts*

As for North Korea, the US hasnt a chance in hell of winning. Im almost certain if they picked that fight they would lose horribly.

I agree on that point. Look at Vietnam! Even though they had far more superior technology, they lost that war and gained nothing. If they attempted to attack North Korea, we all know what would happen. The Americans would be up against the civilians, the army, the air force, the nuclear weapons (or WMD lmfao) and many other factors.

But the United States would not attack North Korea to begin with. They usually only go for the smaller and poorer countries they are able to destroy with a few bombings and air attacks and little ground battle. (Sounds familiar eh?). Much like a blitzkrieg!

 

[Anonymous]

Hrrmm...LuShes ugly pic is still hot...I might need to move to Canada. Nah. Then I could only bitch about the US, and not do anything about it.

Okay. North Korea...I really don't think US wants a fight with Korea. The US is not stupid...it's opertunistic. There's a big difference. Attacking a nation that can not defend itself well is a strategie...overpowering your foe. Colin Powell once said "I don't want to fight a war to be fair to them, I want my side to win". That's military objectivism. Iraq had oil, and members of the administration wanted that oil...If Iraq was armed like Russia or China there's no way a war would have occured. But Iraq gave the US an exuse...or rather Saddam did, to invade. That was a mistake on his part.

Vietnam was not lost because of lack of ability on the part of Americans. Hell, we could have kept bombing the country for years. (Note: Presently that company is about to be controled through US economic dominance.) But the US citicens lost the WILL to fight, and with that the average soldier lost the desire to fight. And once the basic elements of a war are broken down then the war itself will soon end.

IF the US goes into Korea it will be with the UN at thier side, and not alone. The US has one great fear. A war with China. And in the last Korean war Chineese were providing support for Korea, and the US does not want to be in that situation again. China is the ONLY power in the world that is organized enough and capable enough to battle the US toe to toe...luckily they have a couple thousand years of history showing they are not an agressive power. Unlike western nations (including Canada).

As for why I'm not registered here LuShes...well, it's a Canadian forum, and I'm American. I don't know that I SHOULD register here.

Is it me or is this general thread becoming "muddled",
W-K

 

[czardogs]

Vietnam was not lost because of lack of ability on the part of Americans. Hell, we could have kept bombing the country for years. (Note: Presently that company is about to be controled through US economic dominance.) But the US citicens lost the WILL to fight, and with that the average soldier lost the desire to fight. And once the basic elements of a war are broken down then the war itself will soon end.

WK hits a great point here. Why bomb when you can just buy?

American influence on the WTO and World Bank allows them to curtail other nations internal industries in favour of globalization motives - otherwords making the path easier for the multinationals.

this is the biggest threat the world faces today for those that love freedom and the choice to choose what they want for themselves and their nations. Is it all Americas fault? Hell no much of that falls to the cronies of the target nations. for the almighty buck has a strange way of making people turn their heads to the real world reality that they just sold out their own nation.

Our own Paul Martin the next defacto Prime Minister is in this Canadians eyes a traitor to his nation. Quick history lesson (Not enough time to spell it all out) - in Paul Martins first budget I believe it was he listened the syren song of the damsels in disguise the WTO and slashed social spending across the board in Canada. We can still see the effects today. Why does this matter? Our internal politics and national dream was derailed simply by the beck and call of a foreign dominated organization in which the average Canadian really has no say. All this from our upcoming Prime Minister who knows how to play stupid games. He has registered his multimillion dollar business, Canada Steamship lines outside of Canada to avoid Canadian laws and more importantly - CANADIAN TAXES!!

What has this got to do with the thread I dont know but I had to say it anyways.

"Contrary to its claims, capitalism is showing itself to be the mortal enemy of democracy and the market. Its relationship to democracy and the market economy is now much the same as the relationship of a cancer to the body whose life energy it expropriates."
Dr. David Korten

And this Harvard Proffessor is right .

"The only hope is better ideas propogated by whatever means are available to people who are neither rich nor powerful."
Paul Hellyer

:?

 

[LuShes]

I don't think this thread will ever end, just ongoing. As long as Bush is in power and has his hands intos everyone pockets, then here we will sit and comaplain about it.

Wulf - Just cuz your american doesn't mean you can't register on a Canadian site, you are an advid user here, so by all means! More the merrier. Hell you prolly post more than I.

Czardogs, wonderful post. I would make a reply to that, but I was out in the garden all day and my mind is in a muddle at the moment.

Ayie Shmad, I go for North Korea! For the short time I was there, they are very intellegent people. Being in asia I learned a hole new diff veiw of them, rather then from the media. Asians I have grown to respect alot. I don't trust the media anymore. Repetitive brain washing stories. Evil I say!

I don't think I could ever go to the states though. Sure I'm curious about New Orleans and the Mardi Gras *winks*. But really what is there to see there. An overly americanized country (if that makes any sense) With Mcdonalds on every street corner. Plastic women. Ghettos etc..etc.. you name it.

I want to go to Iraq, I want to feel it, breath it and taste it. Well when all threats is over. Beautiful country. So all in all, I would rather go to Iraq then the states. Screw the american economy!

 

[gnuman]

I'd go to Iraq to fill up my car with gas it costs about 35cents for a fillup. Talk about cheap

Wulf is afraid to register because he might be avoided like the plague just like the Dixie Chicks.

I still wouldn't eat chinese food from Asian countries and don't tell me its a lie either that they don't eat cats and dogs which is just gross.

I only go to the states for catfood poor siamese kitty loves the tuna flavour and they don't make it the same way as over here or they are hard to find

Americans don;t know how to party they live in a bunch of villages and Basra looked more freakin modern than most of the cities in the US.

 

[LuShes]

I'd go to Iraq to fill up my car with gas it costs about 35cents for a fillup. Talk about cheap

Wulf is afraid to register because he might be avoided like the plague just like the Dixie Chicks.

I still wouldn't eat chinese food from Asian countries and don't tell me its a lie either that they don't eat cats and dogs which is just gross.

I only go to the states for catfood poor siamese kitty loves the tuna flavour and they don't make it the same way as over here or they are hard to find

Americans don;t know how to party they live in a bunch of villages and Basra looked more freakin modern than most of the cities in the US.

I wouldnt go there for the gas prices, I just want to experience it. I want to experience so much, travel the world and see it thru my eyes and not the medias.

I made wulf register, its a pain sometimes when an avid user isnt registered ;p

I would eat cats and dogs if i had to, I have eaten horse tongue, pigs feet, chickens feet, frog heads, octopus, rabbit, iguana the list goes on and on and on. I love to experience new food, hence why I have the recipe section

I think Americans know how to party more then us, cuz thats all they do! They don't know how to party Stanley cup hockey style! (which is pretty sad) But they have tonnes of night clubs street after street, plastic silicon women, there litlte fantasty world to get out of the reality of the real world. Ohhh I'm gunna get slayed from this. Big silicon titties, nice sports car in america isnt going to make you a better person. American has there facts wrong. I am sure there are many americans with a good head on there shoulders, but many are corrupted and brainwashed from there media and society to be patriotic crazies!

Geeze come on people we are organisms living on a huge spinning rock, meant to reproduce and die. Thats our lifes goal. Course evolution gave us a bigger brain to apparnatly make us smarter, but we just get more dence as time goes on. If theres a god out there, I wish he would break the molds of people like Bush and Saddam and just get the f*ck on with life! Its short, we dont need this crap!

Man I should just join green peace and tie myself half naked to a tree...*shakes her head* Well there my 2 cent rant for today

 

[gnuman]

Darn now you made life seem so pointless now. Geeze.

Ok now you freaked me out with the things you've tried. Maybe you should go on Fear Factor its not as if you didn't eat all gross stuff they could offer.

Big titties don't mean anything to me honestly. I think huge ones are a turnoff. But hon don't you like my 46 DDD? Yah she wouldn't be able to fit in most sportscars cuz of that rack, and don't want to see what damage an airbag could do.

Lushes will you tell me when you'll join greenpeace I guess you wouldn't be tied to a secoyia (sp) tree. hehe

 

[czardogs]

Belgium is coming under pressure from the US to block a potentially explosive war crimes case against General Tommy Franks, commander of coalition forces in Iraq.
Jan Fermon, a Brussels lawyer, confirmed yesterday that 19 Iraqi plaintiffs were seeking to bring charges that would name the general and other US soldiers who had allegedly committed crimes.

Mr Fermon claimed there were 17 violations of Belgium's controversial 1993 war crimes law, which allowed universal jurisdiction until it was amended early this month.

The legal move could prove embarrassing for the government of Guy Verhofstadt, who opposed the war in Iraq along with France and Germany, and is now seeking to mend fences with the US.

Recent high-profile cases based on the law against Israel's prime minister, Ariel Sharon, and the former US president George Bush drew heavy criticism, although a Belgian court appeared to kill off the case against Mr Sharon last year when it declared that he could not be tried because he was not physically present in Belgium.

But this attempt may be more about publicity than justice. Changes to the law allows Belgium to refer foreigners facing war crimes charges to their own governments if these are democracies.

The new version also allows the judiciary to reject complaints filed by plaintiffs who have lived in Belgium for less than three years or those in which the victim or the alleged perpetrator was not a Belgian.

Complaints will be investigated only if the public prosecutor's office decides Belgium is the right place to deal with the matter. Officials say that will be the exception not the rule.

But a US state department spokesman said: "We believe the Belgian government needs to be diligent in taking steps to prevent abuse of the legal system for political ends."

Mr Fermon claimed to be "optimistic" that his claim would be accepted under the new rules. "We have a very specific case, with specific evidence," he said. "I do not see how they can reject it."

Alleged crimes include the failure of US troops to prevent the looting of hospitals in Baghdad after the fall of Saddam Hussein, as well as a shooting incident on a Red Crescent ambulance.

Another claim involves the alleged US bombing of a crowded market in Baghdad, which Iraqi officials claimed killed more than 60 people.

Evidence including video footage and interviews was gathered by two Belgian doctors who were in Baghdad during the war.

Some 30 genocide cases have been lodged in Belgium including ones against Yasser Arafat, Saddam Hussein and Fidel Castro

 

[WulF-Krigan]

But what would it -do-? I mean, let's say Belgium finds Mr. Franks guilty of war crimes. What would be the point? How would the world be better? What -good- would come of it?

Have you ever seen Lord of the Flies? When I watched that movie the first time (I should read the book). Politics and control are not about right or wrong or morality. It is about POWER. If there are more of them and less of you, you better agree with them (or find a way to disagree that they will accept). Or you might find yourself surrounded by kids with pointy sticks and behind hit with little rocks.

I'm not saying that every nation should agree with the US, hell no, that'd be aweful. But it seems to me if you create a court that feels it can adjudicate cases against a party for isn't there, well, that's a bit wacky.

I mean, in the united states if a court case is brought to us who ever wants to START the action has to submit to the jurisdiction of where the other party is located. In this scenario that case would then be opening up in the US. But any free state can have its own laws, however, just because (let's say) Paragua says they own the moon doesn't mean they own it...it only means they think they do, and alot of people somewhere else are likely laughing.

 

[LuShes]

I agree with you wulf, this is similiar to lord of the flies (lord of the lies, suits bush better When I saw it, I thought it was completley absurd *notes to herself to re-read it*

I was watching CNN awhile back (heaven forbids!) And they had these 2 people debating the little tiff france was having with the states. So this guy goes on to say "If your not with the states, your agasint us!" So this lady just started laughing at him (pig headed egotism I think...) Shes like "So just because people have different opinions on world issues, DOES not mean you are against the states." Thats about as absurd as saying for example "If you don't like onions raw like I do, then your not my friend!" It's like a guy I once dated, he always got upset with me for veiwing my own opinion on what I liked and disliked compared to his. "What? you want to drive a Ford?!? Then your not good enough to be my girlfriend!" *throws hands up in the air* It's all about control, and a form of abuse. Yes the states is abusing other countries. 1. Terrorizing us with threats if we don't do what they want 2. Bullying us 3. Ruining economic trades between countries. If this makes any sense to you guys, since I'm half asleep.

That really just set off the states when canada wouldn't participate since we are there neighbour and a supposidly a good allie. But why be agasint us and hate us, just simply because we didn't want to participate in this war like many other countries. Cretchian stated he wanted to show that we are a different country from the states and we have a right to say yes or no. The states pretty much believes they own Canada. Bush is playing a game of Risk, slowly taking over any country he can and americanizing it to his standards.

DAMN WELL GET A WOMAN PRESIDENT/PRIME MINSISTER !!!! Now I bet we would show you guys a thing or two

Seriously, Bush needs to be stopped. He's stirring up so much dust all over the world, he's gunna get whats coming to him. What goes around....comes around...I just hope Canada doesn't get hit...

 

[Shmad]

Okay. North Korea...I really don't think US wants a fight with Korea. The US is not stupid...it's opertunistic. There's a big difference. Attacking a nation that can not defend itself well is a strategie...overpowering your foe. Colin Powell once said "I don't want to fight a war to be fair to them, I want my side to win". That's military objectivism. Iraq had oil, and members of the administration wanted that oil...If Iraq was armed like Russia or China there's no way a war would have occured. But Iraq gave the US an exuse...or rather Saddam did, to invade. That was a mistake on his part.

IF the US goes into Korea it will be with the UN at thier side, and not alone. The US has one great fear. A war with China. And in the last Korean war Chineese were providing support for Korea, and the US does not want to be in that situation again. China is the ONLY power in the world that is organized enough and capable enough to battle the US toe to toe...luckily they have a couple thousand years of history showing they are not an agressive power. Unlike western nations (including Canada).

With or without China helping North Korea, if the US tries to invade North Korea, they will lose. Its a fact, the US could never win that war without the help of most other countries in the world. The North Koreans are a strong, determined and proud people, they would not stand by idly as the US invaded them. Once they had defeated the forces attacking them, expect to see America come under attack by North Korea...

They'd probably be a saner sister country to Canada lol Honestly though, the US doesn't have a chance in hell of winning going JUST to war with North Korea, leaving China out of the picture.

Then again, depending on how much crack intake you have, you may see it a little different

 

[Anonymous]

Hi guys

For the most unfortunately part this will keep going on for a long time maybe 3 years while they are in iraq.

 

[Numure]

1 year later, someone bumps the thread

 

[Andem]

1 year later, someone bumps the thread

I know! This thing is so old.

Still relevant though.

 

[moghrabi]

Aiding Israel and arming them to the teeth

WulF-Krigan, you bring up some good points.. But as myself and others have laid out in previous messages, you really gotta lose the idea that Canada is protected by the United States.... from some unknown, unseen and unheard of alien spaceship hovering around the earth's atmosphere. Get real! What do you propose the Americans are protecting Canada from? IF we really were protected by something from the americans, I would admit it... But we arent.

Now! If we were aiding Israel and arming them to the teeth with weapons to murder it's original palestinian inhabitants, I would say, Yes! The americans are protecting us. Because such a repressed people as the palestinians and their arab 'brothers' will do anything to get revenge. Including a day like Sept. 11th.

We live in a peace-time era, it's peace-time for us. If there was another world war, I'm sure Canada would be arming it's self and I'm quite sure a lot of Canadians would volunteer for military service. Just like WWI and WWII. Of course, times change.. And they are a-changing.

</The US Protects Canada>

Next point...

This is an illegal war.

Yes, I believe it is. Some people believe the UN does not have a say in anything. But they really really do. It's their job to determine if a country is doing something intentionally to destroy a people, disrupt the world's peace, and goto war for pure monetary gain.

As a member-country of the United Nations, a Canadian officer of the law could arrest President Bush because what he's doing right now can be and is considered illegal. He had an option, and he decided to go the wrong path (IMHO) and use arms to take down an enemy, and take his stake of the world's richest oil fields... which is some 10% of the world's oil supply.

I suggest you put on your thinking cap now and put the peices of the puzzle together. Ask yourself, "Hmmm, did the president have a choice? What were his choices? Does IRAQ really have that much oil? Does he hate arabs because of September 11th and the fact he's ultra-religious?"

I have not read every single document of the UN relating to war crimes and illegal intentions. But I am aware that any member country could arrest him because of what he's done.

**PS: WulF-Krigan, I think you bring some good points and some of them are arguably right from some points of view. **

This is a quote from a different thread posted by Andem. I think it is worth discussing. Any volunteers?

 

[moghrabi]

Re: Aiding Israel and arming them to the teeth

WulF-Krigan, you bring up some good points.. But as myself and others have laid out in previous messages, you really gotta lose the idea that Canada is protected by the United States.... from some unknown, unseen and unheard of alien spaceship hovering around the earth's atmosphere. Get real! What do you propose the Americans are protecting Canada from? IF we really were protected by something from the americans, I would admit it... But we arent.

Now! If we were aiding Israel and arming them to the teeth with weapons to murder it's original palestinian inhabitants, I would say, Yes! The americans are protecting us. Because such a repressed people as the palestinians and their arab 'brothers' will do anything to get revenge. Including a day like Sept. 11th.

We live in a peace-time era, it's peace-time for us. If there was another world war, I'm sure Canada would be arming it's self and I'm quite sure a lot of Canadians would volunteer for military service. Just like WWI and WWII. Of course, times change.. And they are a-changing.

</The US Protects Canada>

Next point...

This is an illegal war.

Yes, I believe it is. Some people believe the UN does not have a say in anything. But they really really do. It's their job to determine if a country is doing something intentionally to destroy a people, disrupt the world's peace, and goto war for pure monetary gain.

As a member-country of the United Nations, a Canadian officer of the law could arrest President Bush because what he's doing right now can be and is considered illegal. He had an option, and he decided to go the wrong path (IMHO) and use arms to take down an enemy, and take his stake of the world's richest oil fields... which is some 10% of the world's oil supply.

I suggest you put on your thinking cap now and put the peices of the puzzle together. Ask yourself, "Hmmm, did the president have a choice? What were his choices? Does IRAQ really have that much oil? Does he hate arabs because of September 11th and the fact he's ultra-religious?"

I have not read every single document of the UN relating to war crimes and illegal intentions. But I am aware that any member country could arrest him because of what he's done.

**PS: WulF-Krigan, I think you bring some good points and some of them are arguably right from some points of view. **

This is a quote from a different thread posted by Andem. I think it is worth discussing. Any volunteers?

 

[moghrabi]

Now! If we were aiding Israel and arming them to the teeth with weapons to murder it's original palestinian inhabitants, I would say, Yes! The americans are protecting us. Because such a repressed people as the palestinians and their arab 'brothers' will do anything to get revenge. Including a day like Sept. 11th.


Well said, Andem.

 

[Ranger]

RE: Preemptive War Crimin

Talking about preemting war criminals, how about avoiding them becoming criminals in the first place.
An interesting film from russia is on this topic.
Here is the official film website for The Children Of Leningradsky
The organization behind the "Children of Leningradsky" is Active Child Aid.
Some more links on this "practical" venture.
More.
Ranger