Preemptive War Criminals

[Anonymous]

Okay, a bit to reply to...bear with me if I jump around.

1: Cluster Bombs. Depending on how they are used I do not think these weapons qualify as a violation of the Geneva Convention. They were designed to ruin and pot-hole airfields. But if they were dropped on a village it would be a violation...but by that token, a gun is a violation when used on a civilian.

2: DU rounds. Depleted Uranium...this -could- be argued as a violation under the clause of signifigant enviormental danger. However, what is "signifigant" I think that part of the constatution was to prohibit the use of Nukes...and as such, the US could argue that those rounds do not cause signifigant damage on par with those of nuclear weapons. But I do see the point you are making.

3: Destruction of Iraqi water suplies. Okay...enough with calling it genocide! If you are using genocide as the verb then the reflexive noun (ie: those whom the genocide was commited against) must be the group that the genocide was commited against.

Example: "America Executed Genocidal Acts Against The Iraqi People"
America [noun]
Executed Genocidal Acts [verb- ie: genocide]
Against The Iraqi People [reflexive noun]

This statement states that the Iraqi people are the target of the American genocide. However, not all people from Iraq are the target of this...so that statement is fundamentally untrue. -Some- Iraqi people belonging to a specific political group were trying to be forced out of power.
Also, death was not the goal, and in genocide it is the removal of a group through killing that -is- the goal.
More over...the stratagy of forcing a people unrest to result in political change is not new. The UN sanctions themselves were designed to create unrest to result in a political change (compliance with the UN).
Please do not throw around genocide because you think it -might- fit your meaning. It has a very specific meaning and deep conotations to many people. And when used incorrectly it is reduced in meaning to an emotional propaganda tool intent to change the views of other through gut reactions to words rather than clear thought.
Now, was the planned destruction of Iraq's water supply good? No. Did Iraq have other options to get the plants working again? Yes. Did they persue them? No. Let's hold all sides accountable for all actions.

4: Kidnapping Bush. Take my president...please! I want to see him gone as much as the next guy...but America freaks out when a normal citizen is "kiddnapped" for spray painting a wall in Tailand. How do you think they will react if any nation tries to judge thier ex-president for war-crimes? Not very well. If any nation seeks to bring Mr. Bush to justice they should do so through notice. To simple arrest him, would seem too much like abduction to the American public and would allow politicians to easily vilify those nations who are responsible.
Basicly, I'd not recomend it. But if Canada arrested the man...I wouldn't cry.

 

[Andem]

Welp... This arguement over the definition of genocide will not go anywhere.. So lets just say this...


The war against Iraq is by all definitions: Illegal. (See Smoking Gun thread) There's no smoking gun, there's not chemical weapons, there's not any serious threats to the United States from Iraq before and after this war. The only threat there is is the torching of oil wells... That's a direct threat to the American corporations who want the contracts and hense, a threat to the American government.

Why are American citizens so supportive of the monopolistic corporations who control their lives and supportive of their government who wishing to give them even more power... Both worldwide and in the United States.

There's nothing new about these power-hungry, powertripping powerhouses. They've always been about world domination and absolute control of the world's money and resource supplies.

 

[Twila]

there's not any serious threats to the United States from Iraq before and after this war.

Well, I disagree. There is definitely going to be a threat AFTER this war to the US.

Bush is working dilligently towards total chaos in the middle east. He WILL succeed. Unfortunately those that will suffer will be the innocent US citizens working overseas.

 

[Andem]

there's not any serious threats to the United States from Iraq before and after this war.

Well, I disagree. There is definitely going to be a threat AFTER this war to the US.

Bush is working dilligently towards total chaos in the middle east. He WILL succeed. Unfortunately those that will suffer will be the innocent US citizens working overseas.

Sorry for the confusion. The Iraqi government, IMHO, was never a threat to the United States directly. After the war and before the war.

Terrorists and rebelling citizens is a completely different story. I was not referring to those elements.

 

[Twila]

Sorry for the confusion.

No confusion from you. But some from me. I was attempting to be fa·ce·tious.

 

[Shmad]

Im sure a citizens arrest wouldnt be too hard. Think hard about it.. Think Alberta.. it's armed to the teeth, they all have their bunkers of hordes of weapons (and better than that of our own military sadly). It could be done, then again many things could be done.

If we ever did arrest him, you know they would try and invade us again, like the war of 1812... and once again we'd have to beat them senseless, but maybe this time we'd burn the entire whitehouse down.. (kidding lol).

Im all for a LEGAL war with UN backing, hell if Canada was threatened by an attack by any country or there was a major war to take place (WWIII) Canada would be there, a lot of the country would enlist, we'd kick ass like in WWI and re-establish ourselves as a top military country.. Do we need to? No. We dont go smearing around other peoples shit like the US do, therefore they need the fear of their military.

Sidenote: FYI: Iran's military could take the US on anyday, and well.. it'd be interesting to see, it might be the US getting their asses kicked.. might not be a bad change..

what about a citizens arrest is that allowed?

It might be allowed by some.. But I think Bush's bodyguards and the RCMP would have something to say about it. Its doubtful he would be arrested.. But ofcourse, if after he becomes de-throwned as czardogs says, its quite possible he could be arrested while on vacation.... Still, even then, it would be quite hard to do.

 

[Andem]

Im sure a citizens arrest wouldnt be too hard. Think hard about it.. Think Alberta.. it's armed to the teeth, they all have their bunkers of hordes of weapons (and better than that of our own military sadly). It could be done, then again many things could be done.

If we ever did arrest him, you know they would try and invade us again, like the war of 1812... and once again we'd have to beat them senseless, but maybe this time we'd burn the entire whitehouse down.. (kidding lol).

Im all for a LEGAL war with UN backing, hell if Canada was threatened by an attack by any country or there was a major war to take place (WWIII) Canada would be there, a lot of the country would enlist, we'd kick ass like in WWI and re-establish ourselves as a top military country.. Do we need to? No. We dont go smearing around other peoples shit like the US do, therefore they need the fear of their military.

Sidenote: FYI: Iran's military could take the US on anyday, and well.. it'd be interesting to see, it might be the US getting their asses kicked.. might not be a bad change..

what about a citizens arrest is that allowed?

It might be allowed by some.. But I think Bush's bodyguards and the RCMP would have something to say about it. Its doubtful he would be arrested.. But ofcourse, if after he becomes de-throwned as czardogs says, its quite possible he could be arrested while on vacation.... Still, even then, it would be quite hard to do.

I think the idea that Canada could just magically build a massive military is a nice thought... It's possible we could build a large army, but when it comes to airforce and navy... even army... We just don't have the technology advances that many other countries in the EU, UK, USA have.

 

[Anonymous]

The US could take Canada in a war tommorow. Allthough we'd likely only take the first 50 miles north and push you all to the wilds (like Germany did Russia).

But that will never happen. As stupid as your average American is we will never make war with Canada.

The UN does not need to back a war to make it legal. But a war becomes illegal if the UN opposes a war. (Least that is how I know it to work.) So basiclly no US military action is illegal since the UN will never be able to condemn it with a US veto action on the security counsil, just like the UN could never take military action against the US.

But that's more to international law...The US is a 4 year old with a machine gun. Don't tease it and play nice with it...or it will throw a tantrum and attack you. Maybe it's not the wisest move...but its a country growing up.
W-K

 

[Andem]

The US could take Canada in a war tommorow. Allthough we'd likely only take the first 50 miles north and push you all to the wilds (like Germany did Russia).

It seems quite ignorant someone would assume this. You don't know what the United States could do, seeing as their forces are spread so thinly around the world.. I'm sure an American attack would trigger a worldwide effort to push the americans off the face of the earth.

Anyhow, what do I know? I'm just a canuck who is very poorly educated on world affairs (sarcasm).

 

[Anonymous]

Hehe....Andem, I'm not talking about long term political ramifications. Merely that if a war between the US and Canada broke out I think the US would win. Just like if a war between China and the US broke out tommorow I think the US would lose. It is a matter of legistics and the US can out produce weapons and soldiers compared to Canada.
But it won't happen. So don't worry.

 

[Andem]

Hehe....Andem, I'm not talking about long term political ramifications. Merely that if a war between the US and Canada broke out I think the US would win. Just like if a war between China and the US broke out tommorow I think the US would lose. It is a matter of legistics and the US can out produce weapons and soldiers compared to Canada.
But it won't happen. So don't worry.

RIght, okay... I don't think the americans would win in the long run. Maybe they'd be successful in breaking through our borders.. but it would not stop there.

 

[LuShes]

Someone needs to ram Bush up the ass !!!!

 

[gnuman]

Bush is an idiot, although I can't stop laughing when he does his stupid thumbs up sign he reminds me of a monkey with the IQ of a doorknob.

You have to look at it this way the US thinks that the other countries in the world are stupider than they are.

Of course war doesn't do anything look at what is has caused! You have just as much looting in Iraq like the US on a good day, people have no electricity or water or even food.

What's freedom when you're going to die from hunger? You're free till you're going to die out from the non-existant help you're waiting for. The people are worse off now than with Saddam as their leader.

You think it wasn't the same thing with Russia? Communist one day free the next and what happened? People were poor and starving to death.

This is the same with Iraq the peopel are free to die becuase they weren't thought of. The Americans thought that once we bash and smash the enemy and leave look at the chaos their in.

The children of Iraq are suffering more than they were before. These kids will only know their childhood was taken away by a militant leader in George W Bush and will hate the US for the pain and suffering they are going through.

The US isn't free they think they are but they are not they're brainwashed into believing so. I think they should read the book 1984 by George Orwell and tell me that its not true.

 

[LuShes]

gnuman: yeah bush is an idiot. Trying to brainwash the iraqis into like american way of life. Serously, they are absurd for that.

But at least Saddam is out of power for good now (hopefully) . And more innocent lives wont be distinquished by his hand of power.

Yes many will people starve to death there and die from diseases. As well as all over the world.

I just pray to god that Bush doesn't start any more unpeaceful wars, especially without the UN backing him up! That idiot...

 

[Andem]

I just pray to god that Bush doesn't start any more unpeaceful wars, especially without the UN backing him up! That idiot...

You got that right! Right now, Bush is liable for war crimes and can be subjected to the tribunal in the hague. As it stands, it would not be very possible to get him now. But after he's out of office, there is a possibility he would be arrested and sent to trial. I'm sure the democrats would support that if they gain power in the next election!

 

[gnuman]

I was watching the news and it mentionned the debate and man there was this one smart guy and I would actually vote for him if I was an American said something to the lines of we should help our own people and not go spending billions of dollars on wars for no reason.

He's NOT brainwashed I completely agree with him, although on a different note can he be lying?

Well its like this the US helps but it does the wrong thing. It was like when they sent 15bln worth of AIDS treatments to some African countries to help the situation. How can those drugs help if people would die faster from hunger?

The intention was good but the thought process took a detour somewhere. I think those people are more worried about starving to death than AIDS.

Anywho back to Bush and the Terrorist 3some. There is no way in hell that Bush is doing anything smart from giving pizza hut or maybe open up a red light district in Basra for cheap hookers.

Who knows but you can really see here there was not too much thought put into the what if category. I still don't count out Saddam I think there might be a chance that he'll take over again somehow.

Bush only swept the dirt under the rug but there are supporters and there will be tons of civil clashes. You think that it they'd be better off without Saddam and now they are suffering some more.

When will people learn that war does nothing but cause more problems.

 

[LuShes]

I think saddam is gone for good, even if he still is alive. But I do however know that someone else will surely take his place. Prehaps not in Iraq, but somewhere in the world. *cough* Bush... *cough*...

I agree War is not the answer on this gnuman. Bush is just a power trigger hungry happy monkey! Starvation and disease are sad factors for the innocent people in war. It breaks my heart.

Yes I agree on the civil wars all over the world. Burning of the american flag. Flattening canadian tires (no pun intended destroying french wine and cheese. WHERE WILL IT STOP!

Bush needs a life. Terrorizing the world is not a good hobby. It's going to get him a bullet in the back of his head... Hooray!!! Errr uhh I mean, how sad... lol


P.S.
On a lighter note, and not even meant for this forum. But hwo in gods name do you take care of pepper and tomatoe plants?!?!?!?!? I figure I gotta get an answer to this, since this forum is often veiwed...help!

 

[gnuman]

Well I think of war this way the fighting stopped and usually the finisher (the disease) kicks in because of all the things that caused it, no sanitation, etc etc.

People might think we're crazy because we don't support the war but what is idiotic is the americans acting like jerks and telling us what to and what not to. Hey this is Canada its FREE. We say French Fries and eat french cheeses? Do you rename Canadian Bacon as American bacon?

People who do these things are childish.

I hate Bush I hated him for his stupid little Missle Defense system ideas when he was campaigning I hated him for everything he stood for and I still do today.

He's a SOB that should have been deported to Antarctica because people like him deserve no sympathy for anything done unto them

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You like pepper and tomato plants??? You're a veggie killer! Eat meat and be strong hehe, who said a lettuce doesn't hurt when you're chopping its head off?(ok I'm being silly enuff of that )

 

[LuShes]

The entire world is being childish. I have never seen racism so high as it is now. Everyone seems to be agasint each other, and thats just a bad sign for some big trouble...

Bush just wants to be a good boy and finish what his daddy didn't (idiot) Clinton was to busy making love and not war

Note**
I love a good steak! But my weakness is seafood. Anyways trying something new and growing a garden for the first time, and found out tomato plants are god dam hard to grow! My radishes and lettuce have taken over my garden...so thats ok, lol. But nooo me being stubborn, I have to try hard plants to grow on my first try at this...*shakes her head* Sitting here with my pepper plants and tomato plants under my desk lamp. I need a halogen lamp for this sucker. God knows the cops are gunna break into my house thinking i have a grow op...lol *eeeps* *hides under desk*

 

[gnuman]

The US is still in the 1960s. Today its anti-Arab, and its a tragedy that people single out everyone and not the select few who were responsible for the 9/11 tragedy.

Well Clinton did have his downfall with the Kosovo war but everyone will remmeber him for staining dresses.

Yes I've said that bush did it because he didn't finish pop's war, but there is a reason why Saddam killed his own people was that they believed Papa Bush in revolting during the first Gulf War and what happened? The US left and Saddam knew who revolted against his regime.

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See Lushes you even have a war in your own garden! Darn lettuces and radishes are taking over gotta do something about it. I like steak too hmmm steak let's go out for steak
I'm not much of a seafood lover although I love seeingfood hehe

Well you ARE in BC and *those* plants are normal over there and are most likely considered legal by now anywho. Sure why not grow the tomatoes hydroponically anywho a lot of farmers here who have green houses do but its expensive to run those lightbulbs all the time.

Gardening Forum anyone?